From RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com Wed Aug 10 10:59:10 2005 From: RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com (West, Ronald S.) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 11:59:10 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Boot ROM modifications Message-ID: <166B66B7065AB941B06FD395E98C7E8B066128E6@mcl-its-exs04.mail.saic.com> Wonder if anyone knows if there was a boot ROM mod to allow the use of a 80 track drive for booting an H17 disk? I managed to get a TEAC FD-55GFR 193-U drive to read a hard sector boot floppy and display the "(BOOT)" prompt on my H-8/H-19. It won't go any further in the boot process as it only steps 1 track instead of 2 needed for the 80 track drive. If someone is interested in how this was done let me know and I will send in the details. Ron -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Wed Aug 10 11:11:39 2005 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 12:11:39 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Boot ROM modifications In-Reply-To: <166B66B7065AB941B06FD395E98C7E8B066128E6@mcl-its-exs04.mail.saic.com> Message-ID: <200508101611.j7AGBSWZ010106@ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> I don't think that your problem is a function of the boot rom. My recollection is that the boot rom only reads in track zero and then transfers control to the code contained therein. All subsequent activity is a function of whatever code was on track zero, not of the boot rom. Track zero, of course, can be read identically on either a 40 track or an 80 track drive. Thus, your issue lies in the boot code on the floppy, not in the boot code in the ROM. [I think] -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of West, Ronald S. Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 11:59 AM To: 'sebhc at sebhc.org' Subject: [sebhc] Boot ROM modifications Wonder if anyone knows if there was a boot ROM mod to allow the use of a 80 track drive for booting an H17 disk? I managed to get a TEAC FD-55GFR 193-U drive to read a hard sector boot floppy and display the "(BOOT)" prompt on my H-8/H-19. It won't go any further in the boot process as it only steps 1 track instead of 2 needed for the 80 track drive. If someone is interested in how this was done let me know and I will send in the details. Ron -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Wed Aug 10 13:29:49 2005 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 11:29:49 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Boot ROM modifications References: <166B66B7065AB941B06FD395E98C7E8B066128E6@mcl-its-exs04.mail.saic.com> Message-ID: <42FA479D.1706@earthlink.net> West, Ronald S. wrote: > Wonder if anyone knows if there was a boot ROM mod to allow the use > of a 80 track drive for booting an H17 disk? You don't need a special ROM to do this; the stock ROM does it. The only thing the stock ROM can't do is boot from a 40-track disk in an 80-track drive (because it doesn't know enough to double-step). Ray Livingston's BIOS-80 is the standard software for doing this (for CP/M). He wrote a new boot loader to go in the boot tracks. The stock ROM loads this boot loader, which then takes control and finishes the boot process. It knows all about 40- and 80-track drives, and can read/write/format any combination of 40/80 track disks and 40/80 track drives, both single and double-sided. -- Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong reasons. -- R. Buckminster Fuller -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com Wed Aug 10 11:43:28 2005 From: RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com (West, Ronald S.) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 12:43:28 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Boot ROM modifications Message-ID: <166B66B7065AB941B06FD395E98C7E8B066128E7@mcl-its-exs04.mail.saic.com> Barry, Good observation, you are correct. I see Lee has sent a note with a product that does this for cp/m. Will check the SEBHC site and see if anything like that for HDOS has been posted. Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org > [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Barry Watzman > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 12:12 PM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: RE: [sebhc] Boot ROM modifications > > > I don't think that your problem is a function of the boot rom. > > My recollection is that the boot rom only reads in track zero > and then transfers control to the code contained therein. > All subsequent activity is a function of whatever code was on > track zero, not of the boot rom. Track zero, of course, can > be read identically on either a 40 track or an 80 track > drive. Thus, your issue lies in the boot code on the floppy, > not in the boot code in the ROM. > > [I think] > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org > [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of > West, Ronald S. > > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 11:59 AM > To: 'sebhc at sebhc.org' > Subject: [sebhc] Boot ROM modifications > > Wonder if anyone knows if there was a boot ROM mod to allow > the use of a 80 track drive for booting an H17 disk? I > managed to get a TEAC FD-55GFR 193-U drive to read a hard > sector boot floppy and display the "(BOOT)" prompt on my > H-8/H-19. It won't go any further in the boot process as it > only steps 1 track instead of 2 needed for the 80 track drive. > > If someone is interested in how this was done let me know and > I will send in the details. > > Ron > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Aug 10 11:49:59 2005 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 09:49:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] Boot ROM modifications Message-ID: <200508101649.JAA16673@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I think he may be trying to read a 35/40 disk on a 96tpi drive. I believe that you need to modify the vector table for the step operation to point to a double step. This can be done one of several ways. One is that you can modify the H17 ROM, you can type in a simple patch from the monitor or, as Barry states, you can modify the boot sector code to patch the table. It should be simple, you just need to call the code that does the step twice. It couldn't be more than about 10 bytes of code. If you are going to patch it from the monitor, you need to get the table loaded the first time. I've done this by having the disk door open and stopping things while the drive is still spinning. Then you can patch the call table that the H17 ROM loaded. You should then be able to pick up the boot operation from where it left off. There may be an issue with the dirve timeouts. If so, you'll need to start the boot code at the point that the drive activity is just started but the tables have already been loaded. Explore the H17 listing on from the ftp. You should be able to patch things to work. Dwight >From: "Barry Watzman" > >I don't think that your problem is a function of the boot rom. > >My recollection is that the boot rom only reads in track zero and then >transfers control to the code contained therein. All subsequent activity is >a function of whatever code was on track zero, not of the boot rom. Track >zero, of course, can be read identically on either a 40 track or an 80 track >drive. Thus, your issue lies in the boot code on the floppy, not in the >boot code in the ROM. > >[I think] > > >-----Original Message----- >From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >West, Ronald S. >Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 11:59 AM >To: 'sebhc at sebhc.org' >Subject: [sebhc] Boot ROM modifications > >Wonder if anyone knows if there was a boot ROM mod to allow the use of a 80 >track drive for booting an H17 disk? I managed to get a TEAC FD-55GFR 193-U >drive to read a hard sector boot floppy and display the "(BOOT)" prompt on >my H-8/H-19. It won't go any further in the boot process as it only steps 1 >track instead of 2 needed for the 80 track drive. > >If someone is interested in how this was done let me know and I will send in >the details. > >Ron >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From sp11 at hotmail.com Wed Aug 10 11:56:30 2005 From: sp11 at hotmail.com (Steven Parker) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:56:30 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] OS (was: Boot ROM) modifications In-Reply-To: <166B66B7065AB941B06FD395E98C7E8B066128E6@mcl-its-exs04.mail.saic.com> Message-ID: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:56:30 GMT >I managed to get a ... [96TPI] >drive to read a hard sector boot floppy and display the "(BOOT)" prompt on >my H-8/H-19. It won't go any further in the boot process ... Sounds like that floppy has an old OS version that doesn't understand 96TPI drives. A newer OS or one with a third-party disk driver and boot add-on is needed. I think there might be some HUG products in the archive that address this. The big trick may be getting the new s/w onto a floppy so you can boot it. You might need someone with a working 96TPI OS to make you one. The stuff I've gotten working here so far is all 48TPI. Incidentally, if I recall correctly, 96TPI systems would read 48TPI disks but not write them. Cheers, - Steven -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Aug 10 12:23:23 2005 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 10:23:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] OS (was: Boot ROM) modifications Message-ID: <200508101723.KAA16687@clulw009.amd.com> Hi My Standalone Forth has the ability to read and write the boot sector. I do this as a standard part of my meta compilation when I modify the core code. I think the Forth and the screens disk are on the ftp but if not, I can make some images and send them in. I don't think I sent in the meta compiler disk. To make it boot the disk should be relatively easy but to make it auto detect 96tpi from 48tpi would be a little more tricky. I don't have my machine handy right now but could get something to you by Monday. For those that are intersted in the Forth, it is basically a FIG Forth with a couple of words taken from the 83-standard. The reason I didn't send the meta disks is that I do it the lazy way. I first create a new image in high memory. I then have another disk to create the final image in low memory that I save to disk as the latest version. If I wasn't so lazy, I'd write the little bit of additional code to handle the offsets. Dwight >From: "Steven Parker" >>I managed to get a ... [96TPI] >>drive to read a hard sector boot floppy and display the "(BOOT)" prompt on >>my H-8/H-19. It won't go any further in the boot process ... > >Sounds like that floppy has an old OS version that doesn't understand 96TPI >drives. A newer OS or one with a third-party disk driver and boot add-on is >needed. I think there might be some HUG products in the archive that >address this. > >The big trick may be getting the new s/w onto a floppy so you can boot it. >You might need someone with a working 96TPI OS to make you one. The stuff >I've gotten working here so far is all 48TPI. > >Incidentally, if I recall correctly, 96TPI systems would read 48TPI disks >but not write them. > >Cheers, > >- Steven > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Aug 10 12:57:28 2005 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 10:57:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] OS (was: Boot ROM) modifications Message-ID: <200508101757.KAA16719@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" ---snip--- > I think the Forth and the screens disk are on >the ftp but if not, I can make some images and >send them in. I don't think I sent in the meta >compiler disk. ---snip--- Hi I just checked what I have on the ftp and I did send in the meta disk images as well. I see that I also have images for both the H8-4 and H8-5 serial cards. Anyway, look at the source code for SAVE-SELF on the meta disk ( I think ) for how to write to the disk's first sector. You can do this on a DOS machine with something like Xtree but it is easiest to look at the disk from Forth on the Heathkit. The source disk are all in block format ( typical of many early Forth's ) and are not easily read by DOS. Dwight -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Aug 10 14:09:54 2005 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 12:09:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] OS (was: Boot ROM) modifications Message-ID: <200508101909.MAA16740@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I just looked at my code a little. There are a couple of low level words that access the disk. >From Forth, I always use disk that are volume 0 so this may only work for the first track ( that is always volume 0 for HDOS ). Other tracks may have volume numbers other than 0, depending on how the disk was formatted. There are two words that one can use. They are: DREAD ( Sect# Address #bytes - ) DWRITE ( Sect# Address #bytes - ) An example of how one might modify a byte of the first sector might be: ( I forget the sector size but I think it ) ( is 256 decimal. ) CREATE SEC-BUF 1000 ALLOT ( someplace to put things ) ( place the disk to modify in drive 0 ) 0 SEC-BUF 100 DREAD ( read sector. note values in HEX ) SEC-BUF 20 + C@ . ( display the 20th hex location of buffer ) 05 SEC-BUF 20 + C! ( modify the 20th hex location of buffer to value 5 ) 0 SEC-BUF 100 DWRITE ( Write buffer back to disk ) If you want to display the data in the buffer, I have a dump utility on the FSCRN.IMG disk. From Forth, put this disk into the drive 0 and do: 5 LOAD You can then use this like: DUMP ( address count - ) or in this case: SEC-BUF 100 DUMP ( displays entire sector ) Don't forget to put the disk you are modifying back into the drive before doing the DWRITE. Also, if you use my transfer utility, you should be able to make images onto the 10 sectored hard disk using the 96tpi drive. It will still think it is talking to a 35 track disk but you should still be able to create the disk. They will, of course, only work on a 96tpi drive and act like a 35 track disk( assuming not softsectored ). If you'd like to disassemble a chunk of code, both meta disks have a simple disassembler on them. Stick one of the meta disk in drive 0 and do the following: EMPTY-BUFFERS 6 LOAD 7 LOAD It is used: DISASSEMBLE ( StartAddr StopAddr DisAddr - ) or in this case: SEC-BUF SEC-BUF 100 + 2280 DISASSEMBLE ( I hope that is right ) Of course, you might want to do just a few bytes at a time: SEC-BUF SEC-BUF 10 + 2280 DISASSEMBLE ( do first 16 locations ) Also note that 2280 Hex is the location that the H17 loads the first sector's code to bootstrap from. If you are disassembling code that is located where it is run, the DisAddr is the same as the StartAddr. In this case we are disassembling at some other location. Hope this helps a little. Dwight >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" > >>From: "Dwight K. Elvey" >---snip--- >> I think the Forth and the screens disk are on >>the ftp but if not, I can make some images and >>send them in. I don't think I sent in the meta >>compiler disk. >---snip--- > >Hi > I just checked what I have on the ftp and I >did send in the meta disk images as well. >I see that I also have images for both the >H8-4 and H8-5 serial cards. > Anyway, look at the source code for SAVE-SELF >on the meta disk ( I think ) for how to write to the >disk's first sector. You can do this on a DOS machine >with something like Xtree but it is easiest to >look at the disk from Forth on the Heathkit. >The source disk are all in block format ( typical >of many early Forth's ) and are not easily read >by DOS. >Dwight > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com Wed Aug 10 15:31:33 2005 From: RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com (West, Ronald S.) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:31:33 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] OS (was: Boot ROM) modifications Message-ID: <166B66B7065AB941B06FD395E98C7E8B066128EC@mcl-its-exs04.mail.saic.com> Looks like there is a SY.DVD device driver written by UltiMeth Corp. that covers this too. It is at the following link. http://www.sebhc.org/archive/software/sources/HUG_SY_Device_Driver_885-1095/ Will try messing with this and see what happens. Everyone - Thanks for the help. Ron -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From rgroh at swbell.net Thu Aug 11 13:24:47 2005 From: rgroh at swbell.net (Bob And Bettina Groh) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 13:24:47 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] More basement cleaning - original copy of (Heathkit) CommSoft RTTY-89 and CW89 Message-ID: <42FB97EF.2080904@swbell.net> This is sort of a cross-cultural offering - ham radio and computers - both involving Heathkit. Way back in the dim ages (circa 1980), Howard Nurse, W6LLO (the son of Dave Nurse who was President of Heathkit at that time), developed ham related software packages for the H-89 (and H-8) and it's ilk. They ran on HDOS and allowed sending and receiving CW (CW89) and RTTY using your computer and your ham radio receiver/transmitter. I found one of these packages in my bookcase - it has the CommSoft binder, the manuals and the software on disk (hard sectored, I think). An interesting package. If anyone is interested, please drop me an email. The cost will be $15 for everything and I'll cover shipping costs (at least to US locations). 73 Bob Groh, WA2CKY -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Thu Aug 11 15:06:05 2005 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 13:06:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] More basement cleaning - original copy of (Heathkit) CommSoft RTTY-89 and CW89 In-Reply-To: <42FB97EF.2080904@swbell.net> Message-ID: <20050811200605.30308.qmail@web53708.mail.yahoo.com> Me again, still yes, I'm very interested - I've got my KSR-28 all warmed up in anticipation! I'll follow up with you later from home to learn more about your RTTY expriences. Jack Bob And Bettina Groh wrote: This is sort of a cross-cultural offering - ham radio and computers - both involving Heathkit. Way back in the dim ages (circa 1980), Howard Nurse, W6LLO (the son of Dave Nurse who was President of Heathkit at that time), developed ham related software packages for the H-89 (and H-8) and it's ilk. They ran on HDOS and allowed sending and receiving CW (CW89) and RTTY using your computer and your ham radio receiver/transmitter. I found one of these packages in my bookcase - it has the CommSoft binder, the manuals and the software on disk (hard sectored, I think). An interesting package. If anyone is interested, please drop me an email. The cost will be $15 for everything and I'll cover shipping costs (at least to US locations). 73 Bob Groh, WA2CKY -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List