From peter59 at sbcglobal.net Thu Mar 2 12:10:03 2006 From: peter59 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Shkabara) Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:10:03 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] CDR Systems Message-ID: <20060302181016.448E010E5A@mx1.evocative.com> Does anyone know what happened to Mark Brooks and CDR Systems? Several years ago I checked for them and could not find any reference in an online search. My daughter moved to San Diego, and that reminded me of CDR. Peter peter59 at sbcglobal.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From degree451 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 3 17:07:29 2006 From: degree451 at yahoo.com (Fourfiftyone Degrees) Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 15:07:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sebhc] Soft-Sectored CP/M for Z90 Message-ID: <20060303230729.2297.qmail@web54503.mail.yahoo.com> I accidently destroyed my CP/M floppies for my Z90. Does anyone know what the best way for me to create replacement disks? My Z90 supports both DSDD/48tpi and DSQD/96tpi soft-sectored drives. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From peter59 at sbcglobal.net Fri Mar 10 17:10:11 2006 From: peter59 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Shkabara) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:10:11 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] CP/M site Message-ID: <000001c64497$c948a6d0$0d0014ac@voshod> I stumbled onto this site that may be of interest to CP/M users: http://www.retroarchive.org/ Peter Peter59 at sbcglobal.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garlangr at verizon.net Sun Mar 12 23:27:12 2006 From: garlangr at verizon.net (Mark Garlanger) Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 23:27:12 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Soft-Sectored CP/M for Z90 In-Reply-To: <20060303230729.2297.qmail@web54503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000601c6465e$c87db6f0$6401010a@GR390> It would be easiest to have someone with them to make you a replacement copy, unfortunately, I still do not have a system with a working soft-sectored controller. BTW: Is there anyone in the Dallas/FW area which has an oscilloscope that I could borrow for a little while to see if properly adjusting the variable resistor on the board will fix the one that I have. Thanks, Mark -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Fourfiftyone Degrees Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 5:07 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: [sebhc] Soft-Sectored CP/M for Z90 I accidently destroyed my CP/M floppies for my Z90. Does anyone know what the best way for me to create replacement disks? My Z90 supports both DSDD/48tpi and DSQD/96tpi soft-sectored drives. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From maxwell at acsu.buffalo.edu Mon Mar 13 10:23:11 2006 From: maxwell at acsu.buffalo.edu (John Maxwell) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:23:11 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive In-Reply-To: <000601c6465e$c87db6f0$6401010a@GR390> References: <000601c6465e$c87db6f0$6401010a@GR390> Message-ID: <44159C6F.3060006@acsu.buffalo.edu> Hi All, I have downloaded several floppy images from the archives and was searching for a utility to convert them back to real floppies. None of my three H89s have a boot diskette at the moment, so I would need to create diskettes on an IBM PC. Does anybody have a verified method for doing this? I looked in the archive folders and didn't find anything that was apparent. Could somebody please point me to an IBM utility for doing this? I would appreciate it. Take care, -John -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | John Maxwell | Disclaimer - | | Equipment Repair Tech | "I know you believe you understand | | SUNY at Buffalo | what you think I typed but, | | B10 Lockwood Hall | I am not sure you realize that what | | Buffalo, NY 14260 | you have read is not what I meant." | |--------------------------------------------------------------------| | V-Mail: (716) 645-3900 x116 | | E-Mail: maxwell at acsu.buffalo.edu | | W-Site: http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~maxwell | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From robin.england at dial.pipex.com Mon Mar 13 10:58:58 2006 From: robin.england at dial.pipex.com (Robin England) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:58:58 -0000 Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive References: <000601c6465e$c87db6f0$6401010a@GR390> <44159C6F.3060006@acsu.buffalo.edu> Message-ID: <005501c646bf$6c2f39d0$03fea8c0@mpxp731gb> Hello John Are your H89 drives the hard-sectored or soft-sectored type? Rgds Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Maxwell" To: Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 4:23 PM Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive > Hi All, > I have downloaded several floppy images from the archives and was > searching for a utility to convert them back to real floppies. None of > my three H89s have a boot diskette at the moment, so I would need to > create diskettes on an IBM PC. Does anybody have a verified method for > doing this? I looked in the archive folders and didn't find anything > that was apparent. > Could somebody please point me to an IBM utility for doing this? I > would appreciate it. > > Take care, > -John > > > -- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > | John Maxwell | Disclaimer - | > | Equipment Repair Tech | "I know you believe you understand | > | SUNY at Buffalo | what you think I typed but, | > | B10 Lockwood Hall | I am not sure you realize that what | > | Buffalo, NY 14260 | you have read is not what I meant." | > |--------------------------------------------------------------------| > | V-Mail: (716) 645-3900 x116 | > | E-Mail: maxwell at acsu.buffalo.edu | > | W-Site: http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~maxwell | > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Mar 13 11:23:36 2006 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:23:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive Message-ID: <200603131723.JAA26121@ca2h0430.amd.com> Hi John As Robin notes, so far, all of the images on the ftp are for hard sectored drives and not for soft sectored ( as far as I know ). There is a utility on the ftp, that I wrote, that you can use to bootstrap your machine to a bootable disk if it is hard sectored. You need a PC running DOS ( not a DOS window under windows but boots to DOS ). You'll need a cable connecting the PC to a serial card in the the H89 on the printer port ( You'll need to make sure the wires are 1 to 1 in the serial cable and that the serial card has the normal jumpering ). You enter about 50 bytes from the monitor that loads a basic serial loader. You then download from the PC a disk driver that will create a bootable disk from one of the OS images on the ftp. You need to follow the instructions exactly that come with the program. Most all failures to work are caused by missing some step. Of course, you'll need some 10 hard sectored disk as well. Dwight >From: "John Maxwell" > >Hi All, > I have downloaded several floppy images from the archives and was >searching for a utility to convert them back to real floppies. None of >my three H89s have a boot diskette at the moment, so I would need to >create diskettes on an IBM PC. Does anybody have a verified method for >doing this? I looked in the archive folders and didn't find anything >that was apparent. > Could somebody please point me to an IBM utility for doing this? I >would appreciate it. > > Take care, > -John > > >-- > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >| John Maxwell | Disclaimer - | >| Equipment Repair Tech | "I know you believe you understand | >| SUNY at Buffalo | what you think I typed but, | >| B10 Lockwood Hall | I am not sure you realize that what | >| Buffalo, NY 14260 | you have read is not what I meant." | >|--------------------------------------------------------------------| >| V-Mail: (716) 645-3900 x116 | >| E-Mail: maxwell at acsu.buffalo.edu | >| W-Site: http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~maxwell | >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From maxwell at acsu.buffalo.edu Mon Mar 13 11:58:50 2006 From: maxwell at acsu.buffalo.edu (John Maxwell) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:58:50 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive In-Reply-To: <200603131723.JAA26121@ca2h0430.amd.com> References: <200603131723.JAA26121@ca2h0430.amd.com> Message-ID: <4415B2DA.4060606@acsu.buffalo.edu> Gentlemen, I forgot to mention that I think that one of my H89s uses two half-height soft-sector-controlled drives and the other two use the standard single hard-sector-controlled drive. I am trying to remember from when these arrived which was which, I was told, but my memory is a bit foggy - it has been a long time (> 4 years!) since I put these up on the bench. Each passes the internal memory test (several octal passes, too!) :-) I would very much be interested in the utility to bootstrap the machine(s). Please send the link and I'll get started this upcoming weekend! I have at least one machine dedicated to file transfer and it boots DOS v6.22. I use Kermit and other communications applications on it. Thanks to both for your responses and your help. Take care, -John Robin England wrote: > Hello John > Are your H89 drives the hard-sectored or soft-sectored type? > Rgds > Robin and Dwight Elvey wrote: > Hi John > As Robin notes, so far, all of the images > on the ftp are for hard sectored drives and not > for soft sectored ( as far as I know ). > There is a utility on the ftp, that I wrote, > that you can use to bootstrap your machine > to a bootable disk if it is hard sectored. > You need a PC running DOS ( not a DOS window > under windows but boots to DOS ). You'll > need a cable connecting the PC to a serial > card in the the H89 on the printer port > ( You'll need to make sure the wires are > 1 to 1 in the serial cable and that the > serial card has the normal jumpering ). > You enter about 50 bytes from the monitor > that loads a basic serial loader. You then > download from the PC a disk driver that > will create a bootable disk from one of the > OS images on the ftp. > You need to follow the instructions exactly > that come with the program. Most all failures > to work are caused by missing some step. > Of course, you'll need some 10 hard sectored disk > as well. > Dwight > > > >>From: "John Maxwell" >> >>Hi All, >> I have downloaded several floppy images from the archives and was >>searching for a utility to convert them back to real floppies. None of >>my three H89s have a boot diskette at the moment, so I would need to >>create diskettes on an IBM PC. Does anybody have a verified method for >>doing this? I looked in the archive folders and didn't find anything >>that was apparent. >> Could somebody please point me to an IBM utility for doing this? I >>would appreciate it. >> >> Take care, >> -John >> >> >>-- >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>| John Maxwell | Disclaimer - | >>| Equipment Repair Tech | "I know you believe you understand | >>| SUNY at Buffalo | what you think I typed but, | >>| B10 Lockwood Hall | I am not sure you realize that what | >>| Buffalo, NY 14260 | you have read is not what I meant." | >>|--------------------------------------------------------------------| >>| V-Mail: (716) 645-3900 x116 | >>| E-Mail: maxwell at acsu.buffalo.edu | >>| W-Site: http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~maxwell | >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >>-- >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | John Maxwell | Disclaimer - | | Equipment Repair Tech | "I know you believe you understand | | SUNY at Buffalo | what you think I typed but, | | B10 Lockwood Hall | I am not sure you realize that what | | Buffalo, NY 14260 | you have read is not what I meant." | |--------------------------------------------------------------------| | V-Mail: (716) 645-3900 x116 | | E-Mail: maxwell at acsu.buffalo.edu | | W-Site: http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~maxwell | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Mar 13 12:58:56 2006 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:58:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive Message-ID: <200603131858.KAA28957@ca2h0430.amd.com> Hi John You'll find the bootstrap loader at: http://www.sebhc.org/archive/utilities/H89LDR9.ZIP You can tell the soft sectored from the hard. I think all hard sectored cards use a 8250 chip and the hard sectored cards use a more standard disk controller chip. So far, we haven't been dealing with softsectored. Maybe it is time we collected some. There must be a few on the list with soft sectored disk and drives. There are a number of image formats out there for capturing soft sectored disk( things like teldisk ). I am recommending that we go with a format that the image format it self is in public domain. There is a fellow in one of the mail groups I'm in that has a good tool for capturing disk images and writing images on PC's. Even if his tool goes away, writing the part to copy the images to and from disk on a PC are not that hard. The spec could be posted on our page as well, along with the images. That would go a long way towards maintaining a useful archive. What are thought of others?? >From: "John Maxwell" > >Gentlemen, > I forgot to mention that I think that one of my H89s uses two >half-height soft-sector-controlled drives and the other two use the >standard single hard-sector-controlled drive. I am trying to remember >from when these arrived which was which, I was told, but my memory is a >bit foggy - it has been a long time (> 4 years!) since I put these up on >the bench. Each passes the internal memory test (several octal passes, >too!) :-) > > I would very much be interested in the utility to bootstrap the >machine(s). Please send the link and I'll get started this upcoming >weekend! I have at least one machine dedicated to file transfer and it >boots DOS v6.22. I use Kermit and other communications applications on it. > > Thanks to both for your responses and your help. > > Take care, > -John > >Robin England wrote: > > > Hello John > > > Are your H89 drives the hard-sectored or soft-sectored type? > > > Rgds > > Robin > > >and Dwight Elvey wrote: > >> Hi John >> As Robin notes, so far, all of the images >> on the ftp are for hard sectored drives and not >> for soft sectored ( as far as I know ). >> There is a utility on the ftp, that I wrote, >> that you can use to bootstrap your machine >> to a bootable disk if it is hard sectored. >> You need a PC running DOS ( not a DOS window >> under windows but boots to DOS ). You'll >> need a cable connecting the PC to a serial >> card in the the H89 on the printer port >> ( You'll need to make sure the wires are >> 1 to 1 in the serial cable and that the >> serial card has the normal jumpering ). >> You enter about 50 bytes from the monitor >> that loads a basic serial loader. You then >> download from the PC a disk driver that >> will create a bootable disk from one of the >> OS images on the ftp. >> You need to follow the instructions exactly >> that come with the program. Most all failures >> to work are caused by missing some step. >> Of course, you'll need some 10 hard sectored disk >> as well. >> Dwight >> >> >> >>>From: "John Maxwell" >>> >>>Hi All, >>> I have downloaded several floppy images from the archives and was >>>searching for a utility to convert them back to real floppies. None of >>>my three H89s have a boot diskette at the moment, so I would need to >>>create diskettes on an IBM PC. Does anybody have a verified method for >>>doing this? I looked in the archive folders and didn't find anything >>>that was apparent. >>> Could somebody please point me to an IBM utility for doing this? I >>>would appreciate it. >>> >>> Take care, >>> -John >>> >>> >>>-- >>> >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>| John Maxwell | Disclaimer - | >>>| Equipment Repair Tech | "I know you believe you understand | >>>| SUNY at Buffalo | what you think I typed but, | >>>| B10 Lockwood Hall | I am not sure you realize that what | >>>| Buffalo, NY 14260 | you have read is not what I meant." | >>>|--------------------------------------------------------------------| >>>| V-Mail: (716) 645-3900 x116 | >>>| E-Mail: maxwell at acsu.buffalo.edu | >>>| W-Site: http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~maxwell | >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dave04a at dunfield.com Mon Mar 13 13:26:33 2006 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (dave04a at dunfield.com) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:26:33 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive In-Reply-To: <200603131858.KAA28957@ca2h0430.amd.com> Message-ID: <200603131926.k2DJQVi4010406@mail2.magma.ca> > So far, we haven't been dealing with softsectored. > Maybe it is time we collected some. There must be a few on the > list with soft sectored disk and drives. > There are a number of image formats out there for capturing > soft sectored disk( things like teldisk ). I am recommending > that we go with a format that the image format it self is > in public domain. There is a fellow in one of the mail groups > I'm in that has a good tool for capturing disk images > and writing images on PC's. Even if his tool goes away, > writing the part to copy the images to and from disk > on a PC are not that hard. The spec could be posted on > our page as well, along with the images. That would go a > long way towards maintaining a useful archive. > What are thought of others?? I would suggest that if the disks are compatible, that they be archived using my ImageDisk program (available from my site). ImageDisk was designed with the idea that the data should be recoverable by "any means", and therefore the Image file format is fully documented, and I provide utilities to extract and convert all or parts of image files to and from other image files or raw binary sector data. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Mar 13 13:40:40 2006 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:40:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive Message-ID: <200603131940.LAA30275@ca2h0430.amd.com> Hi Yes Dave, it is your tool I'm talking about ;) Dwight >From: dave04a at dunfield.com > >> So far, we haven't been dealing with softsectored. >> Maybe it is time we collected some. There must be a few on the >> list with soft sectored disk and drives. >> There are a number of image formats out there for capturing >> soft sectored disk( things like teldisk ). I am recommending >> that we go with a format that the image format it self is >> in public domain. There is a fellow in one of the mail groups >> I'm in that has a good tool for capturing disk images >> and writing images on PC's. Even if his tool goes away, >> writing the part to copy the images to and from disk >> on a PC are not that hard. The spec could be posted on >> our page as well, along with the images. That would go a >> long way towards maintaining a useful archive. >> What are thought of others?? > >I would suggest that if the disks are compatible, that they >be archived using my ImageDisk program (available from my >site). ImageDisk was designed with the idea that the data >should be recoverable by "any means", and therefore the >Image file format is fully documented, and I provide utilities >to extract and convert all or parts of image files to and from >other image files or raw binary sector data. > >Regards, >Dave > >-- >dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield >dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com >com Vintage computing equipment collector. >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From bandit1921 at cox.net Mon Mar 13 14:11:20 2006 From: bandit1921 at cox.net (Joe Smith) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:11:20 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive In-Reply-To: <200603131926.k2DJQVi4010406@mail2.magma.ca> References: <200603131858.KAA28957@ca2h0430.amd.com> <200603131926.k2DJQVi4010406@mail2.magma.ca> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060313130655.025ae4c0@cox.net> I took a look at Your site,I don't see Imagedisk located anywhere, or did I maybe go to the wrong site? I went to http://www.dunfield.com At 02:26 PM 3/13/2006 -0500, you wrote: > > So far, we haven't been dealing with softsectored. > > Maybe it is time we collected some. There must be a few on the > > list with soft sectored disk and drives. > > There are a number of image formats out there for capturing > > soft sectored disk( things like teldisk ). I am recommending > > that we go with a format that the image format it self is > > in public domain. There is a fellow in one of the mail groups > > I'm in that has a good tool for capturing disk images > > and writing images on PC's. Even if his tool goes away, > > writing the part to copy the images to and from disk > > on a PC are not that hard. The spec could be posted on > > our page as well, along with the images. That would go a > > long way towards maintaining a useful archive. > > What are thought of others?? > >I would suggest that if the disks are compatible, that they >be archived using my ImageDisk program (available from my >site). ImageDisk was designed with the idea that the data >should be recoverable by "any means", and therefore the >Image file format is fully documented, and I provide utilities >to extract and convert all or parts of image files to and from >other image files or raw binary sector data. > >Regards, >Dave > >-- >dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield >dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com >com Vintage computing equipment collector. >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List Joe Smith joebandit jtsdadinaz Conbuilder debugger /Programmer -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Mon Mar 13 14:42:13 2006 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:42:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive Message-ID: <200603132042.PAA06210@ss10.danlan.com> | As Robin notes, so far, all of the images |on the ftp are for hard sectored drives and not |for soft sectored ( as far as I know ). The HDOS 3.0 images I uploaded are soft sector. Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Mon Mar 13 14:41:33 2006 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:41:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: [sebhc] Soft-Sectored CP/M for Z90 Message-ID: <200603132041.PAA06204@ss10.danlan.com> |BTW: Is there anyone in the Dallas/FW area which has an oscilloscope that I |could borrow for a little while to see if properly adjusting the variable |resistor on the board will fix the one that I have. You can adjust the VCO with the frequency counter built into many cheap multimeters these days. Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dave06a at dunfield.com Mon Mar 13 15:04:08 2006 From: dave06a at dunfield.com (dave06a at dunfield.com) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:04:08 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060313130655.025ae4c0@cox.net> References: <200603131926.k2DJQVi4010406@mail2.magma.ca> Message-ID: <200603132104.k2DL452q013878@mail4.magma.ca> > I took a look at Your site,I don't see Imagedisk located anywhere, or > did I maybe go to the wrong site? > I went to http://www.dunfield.com It's on my museum site - you can get there from dunfield.com by clicking on the "old computer guy" (my daughters artwork :-) near the bottom of the page. Once you get there, scroll down the main page until you are at the bottom, and you will see an inconspicous link called "Disks/Software images" a few lines up - in there you will find the latest release of ImageDisk. Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From bandit1921 at cox.net Tue Mar 14 08:07:22 2006 From: bandit1921 at cox.net (Joe Smith) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 07:07:22 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive In-Reply-To: <200603132104.k2DL452q013878@mail4.magma.ca> References: <200603131926.k2DJQVi4010406@mail2.magma.ca> <200603132104.k2DL452q013878@mail4.magma.ca> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060314070546.02585460@cox.net> 1 more question,how does one read the distribution files inside the zips,I have found PIE on several places,but he manual has a bad crc. I also have it on a soft-sectored disk,but at the moment have nothing to read it on. At 04:04 PM 3/13/2006 -0500, you wrote: > > I took a look at Your site,I don't see Imagedisk located anywhere, or > > did I maybe go to the wrong site? > > I went to http://www.dunfield.com > >It's on my museum site - you can get there from dunfield.com by >clicking on the "old computer guy" (my daughters artwork :-) near >the bottom of the page. Once you get there, scroll down the main >page until you are at the bottom, and you will see an inconspicous >link called "Disks/Software images" a few lines up - in there you >will find the latest release of ImageDisk. > >Dave > >-- >dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield >dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com >com Vintage computing equipment collector. >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List Joe Smith joebandit jtsdadinaz Conbuilder debugger /Programmer -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dave06a at dunfield.com Tue Mar 14 09:05:12 2006 From: dave06a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:05:12 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060314070546.02585460@cox.net> References: <200603132104.k2DL452q013878@mail4.magma.ca> Message-ID: <20060314150549.NXCH29380.berlinr.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> > 1 more question,how does one read the distribution files inside the > zips,I have found PIE on several places,but he manual has a bad crc. > I also have it on a soft-sectored disk,but at the moment have nothing > to read it on. I don't know about PIE, however the ImageDisk ZIP file IMD111.ZIP which I directed you to was created with PKZIP, and as far as I know can be unpacked with any of the common ZIP utilities. I use PKZIP, InfoZIP and WinZIP with no problems. I've just downloaded IMD111.ZIP directly from my site and verified it - no CRC errors that I can detect. Regards, Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From bandit1921 at cox.net Tue Mar 14 09:18:49 2006 From: bandit1921 at cox.net (Joe Smith) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 08:18:49 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive In-Reply-To: <20060314150549.NXCH29380.berlinr.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> References: <200603132104.k2DL452q013878@mail4.magma.ca> <20060314150549.NXCH29380.berlinr.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060314081703.025b6ce8@cox.net> Wasn't talking about zip files Dave,the little file that is inside of the zip. Example:PIE 1.5b Distribution Disk, that is what is in the PIE.zip, how does one read that file into something understandable? Kind of like uuencode/decode.. At 10:05 AM 3/14/2006 -0500, you wrote: > > 1 more question,how does one read the distribution files inside the > > zips,I have found PIE on several places,but he manual has a bad crc. > > I also have it on a soft-sectored disk,but at the moment have nothing > > to read it on. > >I don't know about PIE, however the ImageDisk ZIP file IMD111.ZIP >which I directed you to was created with PKZIP, and as far as I know >can be unpacked with any of the common ZIP utilities. I use PKZIP, >InfoZIP and WinZIP with no problems. I've just downloaded IMD111.ZIP >directly from my site and verified it - no CRC errors that I can detect. > >Regards, >Dave > >-- >dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield >dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com >com Collector of vintage computing equipment: > http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List Joe Smith joebandit jtsdadinaz Conbuilder debugger /Programmer -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From wm65805 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 14 09:29:01 2006 From: wm65805 at hotmail.com (bill malcolm) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 09:29:01 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Re: H-89 bus pin out Help References: <20060216171351.91871.qmail@web53710.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:34:00 +0000 Hi: All I did not see the H-89 BUS Pin out in the archive files ( for the slot card). I am looking to build an adapter that connects to the h-17 floppy controller so it could do the following 1. IDE 2. SCSI , SASI , Qic-02 tape Thanks for any help in this matter bill .. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Rubin To: sebhc at sebhc.org Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 11:13 AM Subject: Re: [sebhc] Out of the museum and into the lab. great story - thanks! "West, Ronald S." wrote: Last week the guys in our lab were trying to rebuild a (rather expensive) Sun server. They needed to get into the console program which requires a terminal connected to the serial port in order to do this. Normally we would have hooked a laptop up and used the terminal program for that. Problem is the computer is classified and we can't hook any of our (unclass) laptops up to it. Solution: I suggested I bring in my H19 "dumb" terminal, which has no storage like a laptop. That passed muster and I brought it in the next day. Hooked the thing up, it worked instantly and impressed the h--l out of everyone (God, I love it). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sp11 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 14 10:53:03 2006 From: sp11 at hotmail.com (Steven Parker) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:53:03 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] H-89 bus pin out Help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:53:03 GMT Bill Malcolm wrote: >Hi: All I did not see the H-89 BUS Pin out in the archive files ( for the >slot card). The schematic for the floppy controller only identifies the pins that it uses, but it might be enough. http://www.sebhc.org/archive/documents/hardware/HZ89/H-88/H88-1-schematic.pdf It doesn't look like we have the schematic pull-outs for the H88/89 manuals in there yet. I'll keep an eye out for some during my cleanup. -- Steven -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From bandit1921 at cox.net Tue Mar 14 11:21:09 2006 From: bandit1921 at cox.net (Joe Smith) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:21:09 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H-89 bus pin out Help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060314101935.025742b8@cox.net> Here is a little text file from what I see on my Schematic, if you look at the H17 Floppy connectors and the serial I/O connectors it says different things,this is a combo of those and what it shows for them on the CPU board. At 04:53 PM 3/14/2006 +0000, you wrote: >Bill Malcolm wrote: >>Hi: All I did not see the H-89 BUS Pin out in the archive files ( >>for the slot card). > >The schematic for the floppy controller only identifies the pins >that it uses, but it might be enough. > >http://www.sebhc.org/archive/documents/hardware/HZ89/H-88/H88-1-schematic.pdf > >It doesn't look like we have the schematic pull-outs for the H88/89 >manuals in there yet. I'll keep an eye out for some during my cleanup. > >-- Steven > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List Joe Smith joebandit jtsdadinaz Conbuilder debugger /Programmer -------------- next part -------------- top 10 pin is: 1 and 10 are gnd, 2-9 are d0h thru d7h big connector: 1 = +5v source 2 = gnd 3 = ba0h 4 = ba1h 5 = ba2h 6 = ba3h 7 = ba4h 8 = ba5h 9 = ba6h 10 = ba7h 11 = ba8h 12 = ba9h 13 = ba10h 14 = ba11h 15 = ba12h 16 = mem 0H 17 = mem 1H 18 = rd5 19 = rd6 20 = rd7 21 = +12v 22 = -12v 23 = +5v 24 = +12v 25 = gnd From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Tue Mar 14 11:34:00 2006 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 09:34:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: large schematics - was RE: [sebhc] H-89 bus pin out Help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060314173400.4637.qmail@web53703.mail.yahoo.com> There is a practical issue here that we've never been able to deal with very well - how do you scan the large schematics and pictorial booklets? People have tried overlapping scans and photographs but nothing has worked well. Anybody have access to a large enough scanner to accomodate these items? Jack Steven Parker wrote: Bill Malcolm wrote: >Hi: All I did not see the H-89 BUS Pin out in the archive files ( for the >slot card). The schematic for the floppy controller only identifies the pins that it uses, but it might be enough. http://www.sebhc.org/archive/documents/hardware/HZ89/H-88/H88-1-schematic.pdf It doesn't look like we have the schematic pull-outs for the H88/89 manuals in there yet. I'll keep an eye out for some during my cleanup. -- Steven -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Watzman at neo.rr.com Tue Mar 14 11:50:33 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 12:50:33 -0500 Subject: large schematics - was RE: [sebhc] H-89 bus pin out Help In-Reply-To: <20060314173400.4637.qmail@web53703.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006901c6478f$ccb9c560$6d01a8c0@barry> There is a solution but it's not a good one. There are large document scanners that can take extremely large sheets (more than 4 feet wide in some cases, and of unlimited length). I was able to get the Z-100 schematics and some of the Z-217 drawings scanned that way and I have them and have made them available in that format .... JPEGs of the full-size sheets in a single scan at high resolution (300 or 600 dpi)(yes, the file sizes are large). You can find some of these on the Harte site. It's the right way to do it, but you need access to a large document scanner, and very few of us have this (I don't, it was done for me by an associate at a university, but this resource is no longer available to me). Kinko's here has such a scanner, but they charge $30 per page to use it (seems outrageous since there is no out-of-pocket "cost" to them. They have the price set so high that I won't do it, which reduces their revenue). Barry Watzman Watzman at neo.rr.com _____ From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Jack Rubin Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 12:34 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: large schematics - was RE: [sebhc] H-89 bus pin out Help There is a practical issue here that we've never been able to deal with very well - how do you scan the large schematics and pictorial booklets? People have tried overlapping scans and photographs but nothing has worked well. Anybody have access to a large enough scanner to accomodate these items? Jack Steven Parker wrote: Bill Malcolm wrote: >Hi: All I did not see the H-89 BUS Pin out in the archive files ( for the >slot card). The schematic for the floppy controller only identifies the pins that it uses, but it might be enough. http://www.sebhc.org/archive/documents/hardware/HZ89/H-88/H88-1-schematic.pd f It doesn't look like we have the schematic pull-outs for the H88/89 manuals in there yet. I'll keep an eye out for some during my cleanup. -- Steven -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Mar 14 12:13:32 2006 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:13:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: large schematics - was RE: [sebhc] H-89 bus pin out Help Message-ID: <200603141813.KAA28507@ca2h0430.amd.com> Hi Has anyone tried photographing with a good camera. I have a access to a Canon D10 that can create a TIF file. There must be some way to convert this to a pdf. Dwight >From: "Barry Watzman" > >There is a solution but it's not a good one. There are large document >scanners that can take extremely large sheets (more than 4 feet wide in some >cases, and of unlimited length). I was able to get the Z-100 schematics and >some of the Z-217 drawings scanned that way and I have them and have made >them available in that format .... JPEGs of the full-size sheets in a single >scan at high resolution (300 or 600 dpi)(yes, the file sizes are large). >You can find some of these on the Harte site. It's the right way to do it, >but you need access to a large document scanner, and very few of us have >this (I don't, it was done for me by an associate at a university, but this >resource is no longer available to me). Kinko's here has such a scanner, >but they charge $30 per page to use it (seems outrageous since there is no >out-of-pocket "cost" to them. They have the price set so high that I won't >do it, which reduces their revenue). > > > >Barry Watzman > >Watzman at neo.rr.com > > > > > > _____ > >From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >Jack Rubin >Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 12:34 PM >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: large schematics - was RE: [sebhc] H-89 bus pin out Help > > > >There is a practical issue here that we've never been able to deal with very >well - how do you scan the large schematics and pictorial booklets? People >have tried overlapping scans and photographs but nothing has worked well. >Anybody have access to a large enough scanner to accomodate these items? > > > >Jack > >Steven Parker wrote: > >Bill Malcolm wrote: >>Hi: All I did not see the H-89 BUS Pin out in the archive files ( for the >>slot card). > >The schematic for the floppy controller only identifies the pins that it >uses, but it might be enough. > >http://www.sebhc.org/archive/documents/hardware/HZ89/H-88/H88-1-schematic.pd >f > >It doesn't look like we have the schematic pull-outs for the H88/89 manuals >in there yet. I'll keep an eye out for some during my cleanup. > >-- Steven > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From me at patswayne.com Tue Mar 14 12:23:17 2006 From: me at patswayne.com (Pat Swayne) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:23:17 -0500 Subject: large schematics - was RE: [sebhc] H-89 bus pin out Help In-Reply-To: <20060314173400.4637.qmail@web53703.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060314173400.4637.qmail@web53703.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060314131932.0385e4c0@patswayne.com> Jack wrote: >how do you scan the large schematics and pictorial booklets? One solution is to scan the document in pieces, and then use AutoStitch to put them together. You'll be amazed at how well it works. You can get it free here: http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~mbrown/autostitch/autostitch.html It's made for making panorama photographs from several small ones, but it works on scans also. I haven't tried it on schematics, but I did use to make a picture of a phonograph record cover that was too big for my scanner. The result was perfect. -- Pat -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Mar 14 12:24:25 2006 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:24:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sebhc] H-89 bus pin out Help Message-ID: <200603141824.KAA28811@ca2h0430.amd.com> Hi I don't think the pins you've labled are correct. As I recall only A0, A1, A2 and maybe A3 were on the I/O buss. The mother board decoded a number of blocks to the I/O boards on some of the other pins. I don't think the entire address were there through A12. Pin11 is the select line for the floppy block of I/O. Also, I think pin 6 is BRD_L and 7 is BWR_L not address lines. Pin 13 is the clock line ( 2.048MHZ ). Dwight >From: "Joe Smith" > >Here is a little text file from what I see on my Schematic, if you >look at the H17 Floppy connectors and the serial I/O connectors it >says different things,this is a combo of those and what it shows for >them on the CPU board. >At 04:53 PM 3/14/2006 +0000, you wrote: >>Bill Malcolm wrote: >>>Hi: All I did not see the H-89 BUS Pin out in the archive files ( >>>for the slot card). >> >>The schematic for the floppy controller only identifies the pins >>that it uses, but it might be enough. >> >>http://www.sebhc.org/archive/documents/hardware/HZ89/H-88/H88-1-schematic.pdf >> >>It doesn't look like we have the schematic pull-outs for the H88/89 >>manuals in there yet. I'll keep an eye out for some during my cleanup. >> >>-- Steven >> >> >>-- >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > >Joe Smith >joebandit >jtsdadinaz >Conbuilder debugger /Programmer -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From bandit1921 at cox.net Tue Mar 14 12:42:06 2006 From: bandit1921 at cox.net (Joe Smith) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 11:42:06 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H-89 bus pin out Help In-Reply-To: <200603141824.KAA28811@ca2h0430.amd.com> References: <200603141824.KAA28811@ca2h0430.amd.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060314114054.02574ae8@cox.net> Depends on what you are looking at, I took those from the CPU Board,because looking at the H17 and Serial I/O used 2 different names,pins are different. At 10:24 AM 3/14/2006 -0800, you wrote: >Hi > I don't think the pins you've labled are correct. As I recall >only A0, A1, A2 and maybe A3 were on the I/O buss. >The mother board decoded a number of blocks to the I/O >boards on some of the other pins. I don't think the >entire address were there through A12. Pin11 is the >select line for the floppy block of I/O. > Also, I think pin 6 is BRD_L and 7 is BWR_L not address >lines. Pin 13 is the clock line ( 2.048MHZ ). >Dwight > > >From: "Joe Smith" > > > >Here is a little text file from what I see on my Schematic, if you > >look at the H17 Floppy connectors and the serial I/O connectors it > >says different things,this is a combo of those and what it shows for > >them on the CPU board. > >At 04:53 PM 3/14/2006 +0000, you wrote: > >>Bill Malcolm wrote: > >>>Hi: All I did not see the H-89 BUS Pin out in the archive files ( > >>>for the slot card). > >> > >>The schematic for the floppy controller only identifies the pins > >>that it uses, but it might be enough. > >> > >>http://www.sebhc.org/archive/documents/hardware/HZ89/H-88/H88-1-sc > hematic.pdf > >> > >>It doesn't look like we have the schematic pull-outs for the H88/89 > >>manuals in there yet. I'll keep an eye out for some during my cleanup. > >> > >>-- Steven > >> > >> > >>-- > >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > >Joe Smith > >joebandit > >jtsdadinaz > >Conbuilder debugger /Programmer > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List Joe Smith joebandit jtsdadinaz Conbuilder debugger /Programmer -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Tue Mar 14 12:40:42 2006 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 12:40:42 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Re: H-89 bus pin out Help In-Reply-To: References: <20060216171351.91871.qmail@web53710.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <704e82240603141040q1227a9e7j4e96967b380e3182@mail.gmail.com> For SCSI, Lee Hart has stated before that the H-67 card and drives were a precursor to SCSI, and it should be straight forward to get one of those to work with a SCSI drive. I have one of the H-67 controllers but have not yet tried to get it to work with SCSI. You may ask Lee to see if he has additional H-67 controllers that he would be willing to sell. Mark On 3/14/06, bill malcolm wrote: > > Hi: All I did not see the H-89 BUS Pin out in the archive files ( for the > slot card). > I am looking to build an adapter that connects to the h-17 floppy > controller so it could do the following > 1. IDE > 2. SCSI , SASI , Qic-02 tape > > Thanks for any help in this matter > bill .. > > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From robin.england at dial.pipex.com Tue Mar 14 12:41:59 2006 From: robin.england at dial.pipex.com (Robin England) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:41:59 -0000 Subject: [sebhc] H-89 bus pin out Help References: <200603141824.KAA28811@ca2h0430.amd.com> Message-ID: <008901c64796$fb152010$047ba8c0@HOME01> Hi all I have been using a schematic that I am sure I obtained from the sebhc repository, but then again perhaps I didn't. The schematic consists of three sheets showing video board, main logic board and terminal board. This is in .pdf format. It clearly shows the I/O connector pinout on the main logic board. I have noticed that the component references for the video board appear to be slightly different from the silkscreen identification in my H/Z89 machines. The original file is a .rar format containing the .pdf and has the filename Z90_sch.rar Is this of any use? If so, contact me directly and I will email it to you (I didn't think it would be a good idea to just attach it here, the size is around 1.7MB for the .rar Regards Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dwight Elvey" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 6:24 PM Subject: RE: [sebhc] H-89 bus pin out Help > Hi > I don't think the pins you've labled are correct. As I recall > only A0, A1, A2 and maybe A3 were on the I/O buss. > The mother board decoded a number of blocks to the I/O > boards on some of the other pins. I don't think the > entire address were there through A12. Pin11 is the > select line for the floppy block of I/O. > Also, I think pin 6 is BRD_L and 7 is BWR_L not address > lines. Pin 13 is the clock line ( 2.048MHZ ). > Dwight > > >From: "Joe Smith" > > > >Here is a little text file from what I see on my Schematic, if you > >look at the H17 Floppy connectors and the serial I/O connectors it > >says different things,this is a combo of those and what it shows for > >them on the CPU board. > >At 04:53 PM 3/14/2006 +0000, you wrote: > >>Bill Malcolm wrote: > >>>Hi: All I did not see the H-89 BUS Pin out in the archive files ( > >>>for the slot card). > >> > >>The schematic for the floppy controller only identifies the pins > >>that it uses, but it might be enough. > >> > >>http://www.sebhc.org/archive/documents/hardware/HZ89/H-88/H88-1-schematic. pdf > >> > >>It doesn't look like we have the schematic pull-outs for the H88/89 > >>manuals in there yet. I'll keep an eye out for some during my cleanup. > >> > >>-- Steven > >> > >> > >>-- > >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > >Joe Smith > >joebandit > >jtsdadinaz > >Conbuilder debugger /Programmer > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Mar 14 12:47:45 2006 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:47:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sebhc] H-89 bus pin out Help Message-ID: <200603141847.KAA29475@ca2h0430.amd.com> Hi Joe There are two different busses. I think your looking at the memory expansion buss, not the I/O buss from the mother board. Please take another look at the schematic. Dwight >From: "Joe Smith" > >Depends on what you are looking at, I took those from the CPU >Board,because looking at the H17 and Serial I/O used 2 different >names,pins are different. >At 10:24 AM 3/14/2006 -0800, you wrote: >>Hi >> I don't think the pins you've labled are correct. As I recall >>only A0, A1, A2 and maybe A3 were on the I/O buss. >>The mother board decoded a number of blocks to the I/O >>boards on some of the other pins. I don't think the >>entire address were there through A12. Pin11 is the >>select line for the floppy block of I/O. >> Also, I think pin 6 is BRD_L and 7 is BWR_L not address >>lines. Pin 13 is the clock line ( 2.048MHZ ). >>Dwight >> >> >From: "Joe Smith" >> > >> >Here is a little text file from what I see on my Schematic, if you >> >look at the H17 Floppy connectors and the serial I/O connectors it >> >says different things,this is a combo of those and what it shows for >> >them on the CPU board. >> >At 04:53 PM 3/14/2006 +0000, you wrote: >> >>Bill Malcolm wrote: >> >>>Hi: All I did not see the H-89 BUS Pin out in the archive files ( >> >>>for the slot card). >> >> >> >>The schematic for the floppy controller only identifies the pins >> >>that it uses, but it might be enough. >> >> >> >>http://www.sebhc.org/archive/documents/hardware/HZ89/H-88/H88-1-sc >> hematic.pdf >> >> >> >>It doesn't look like we have the schematic pull-outs for the H88/89 >> >>manuals in there yet. I'll keep an eye out for some during my cleanup. >> >> >> >>-- Steven >> >> >> >> >> >>-- >> >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> > >> >Joe Smith >> >joebandit >> >jtsdadinaz >> >Conbuilder debugger /Programmer >> >> >>-- >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > >Joe Smith >joebandit >jtsdadinaz >Conbuilder debugger /Programmer > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Tue Mar 14 12:51:26 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:51:26 -0500 Subject: large schematics - was RE: [sebhc] H-89 bus pin out Help In-Reply-To: <200603141813.KAA28507@ca2h0430.amd.com> Message-ID: <007401c64798$4c78e3f0$6d01a8c0@barry> It won't work. An 8.5" x 11" page at 300 dpi is 9 megapixels (but even with a 9MP camera, you won't even come close to scanner quality due to focus and lens issues). Here, we are talking about pages which are 8 times that size. You have a 72 megapixel camera? (not to mention the lens and focus issues) -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Dwight Elvey Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 1:14 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: RE: large schematics - was RE: [sebhc] H-89 bus pin out Help Hi Has anyone tried photographing with a good camera. I have a access to a Canon D10 that can create a TIF file. There must be some way to convert this to a pdf. Dwight >From: "Barry Watzman" > >There is a solution but it's not a good one. There are large document >scanners that can take extremely large sheets (more than 4 feet wide in some >cases, and of unlimited length). I was able to get the Z-100 schematics and >some of the Z-217 drawings scanned that way and I have them and have made >them available in that format .... JPEGs of the full-size sheets in a single >scan at high resolution (300 or 600 dpi)(yes, the file sizes are large). >You can find some of these on the Harte site. It's the right way to do it, >but you need access to a large document scanner, and very few of us have >this (I don't, it was done for me by an associate at a university, but this >resource is no longer available to me). Kinko's here has such a scanner, >but they charge $30 per page to use it (seems outrageous since there is no >out-of-pocket "cost" to them. They have the price set so high that I won't >do it, which reduces their revenue). > > > >Barry Watzman > >Watzman at neo.rr.com > > > > > > _____ > >From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >Jack Rubin >Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 12:34 PM >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: large schematics - was RE: [sebhc] H-89 bus pin out Help > > > >There is a practical issue here that we've never been able to deal with very >well - how do you scan the large schematics and pictorial booklets? People >have tried overlapping scans and photographs but nothing has worked well. >Anybody have access to a large enough scanner to accomodate these items? > > > >Jack > >Steven Parker wrote: > >Bill Malcolm wrote: >>Hi: All I did not see the H-89 BUS Pin out in the archive files ( for the >>slot card). > >The schematic for the floppy controller only identifies the pins that it >uses, but it might be enough. > >http://www.sebhc.org/archive/documents/hardware/HZ89/H-88/H88-1-schematic.p d >f > >It doesn't look like we have the schematic pull-outs for the H88/89 manuals >in there yet. I'll keep an eye out for some during my cleanup. > >-- Steven > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From robin.england at dial.pipex.com Tue Mar 14 13:13:40 2006 From: robin.england at dial.pipex.com (Robin England) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 19:13:40 -0000 Subject: [sebhc] Power transistor 417-282 equivalent? Message-ID: <00e501c6479b$67a530e0$047ba8c0@HOME01> Hi Does anyone have an equivalent for the power transistor used as a 53v regulator on the H/Z89 video board? The transistor is a NPN device in a TO3 package and is marked 417-282. On the silkscreen of my video board (85-2453-1) it's shown as Q213 but is shown as Q204 in the schematic I have (as mentioned previously). Mine has gone s/c emitter-collector. :-( Thanks in advance Robin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bandit1921 at cox.net Tue Mar 14 13:20:59 2006 From: bandit1921 at cox.net (Joe Smith) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 12:20:59 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H-89 bus pin out Help In-Reply-To: <200603141847.KAA29475@ca2h0430.amd.com> References: <200603141847.KAA29475@ca2h0430.amd.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060314122018.025b7e68@cox.net> You are correct, I was looking at the bottom and not the top of the schematic.. At 10:47 AM 3/14/2006 -0800, you wrote: >Hi Joe > There are two different busses. I think your looking >at the memory expansion buss, not the I/O buss from >the mother board. Please take another look at the schematic. >Dwight > > > >From: "Joe Smith" > > > >Depends on what you are looking at, I took those from the CPU > >Board,because looking at the H17 and Serial I/O used 2 different > >names,pins are different. > >At 10:24 AM 3/14/2006 -0800, you wrote: > >>Hi > >> I don't think the pins you've labled are correct. As I recall > >>only A0, A1, A2 and maybe A3 were on the I/O buss. > >>The mother board decoded a number of blocks to the I/O > >>boards on some of the other pins. I don't think the > >>entire address were there through A12. Pin11 is the > >>select line for the floppy block of I/O. > >> Also, I think pin 6 is BRD_L and 7 is BWR_L not address > >>lines. Pin 13 is the clock line ( 2.048MHZ ). > >>Dwight > >> > >> >From: "Joe Smith" > >> > > >> >Here is a little text file from what I see on my Schematic, if you > >> >look at the H17 Floppy connectors and the serial I/O connectors it > >> >says different things,this is a combo of those and what it shows for > >> >them on the CPU board. > >> >At 04:53 PM 3/14/2006 +0000, you wrote: > >> >>Bill Malcolm wrote: > >> >>>Hi: All I did not see the H-89 BUS Pin out in the archive files ( > >> >>>for the slot card). > >> >> > >> >>The schematic for the floppy controller only identifies the pins > >> >>that it uses, but it might be enough. > >> >> > >> >>http://www.sebhc.org/archive/documents/hardware/HZ89/H-88/H88-1-sc > >> hematic.pdf > >> >> > >> >>It doesn't look like we have the schematic pull-outs for the H88/89 > >> >>manuals in there yet. I'll keep an eye out for some during my cleanup. > >> >> > >> >>-- Steven > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>-- > >> >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > >> > > >> >Joe Smith > >> >joebandit > >> >jtsdadinaz > >> >Conbuilder debugger /Programmer > >> > >> > >>-- > >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > >Joe Smith > >joebandit > >jtsdadinaz > >Conbuilder debugger /Programmer > > > >-- > >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List Joe Smith joebandit jtsdadinaz Conbuilder debugger /Programmer -------------- next part -------------- top 10 pin is: 1 and 10 are gnd, 2-9 are d0h thru d7h big connector: 1 = +5v source 2 = gnd 3 = A0 4 = a1 5 = a2 6 = brd l 7 = bwr l 8 = wait l 9 = i/o serl 0l 10 = i/o serl 1l 11 = i/o flpy on 506 i/o lp on 504 & 505 12 = i/o cass on 504 & 505 ffmweh l on 506 13 = 2.048mhz clk 14 = 1.8432 mhz clk 15 = reset l 16 = i/o 0h 17 = i/o 1h 18 = int 5 l 19 = int 4 l 20 = int 3 l 21 = +12v 22 = -12v 23 = +5v 24 = +12v 25 = gnd From bandit1921 at cox.net Tue Mar 14 13:34:04 2006 From: bandit1921 at cox.net (Joe Smith) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 12:34:04 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Power transistor 417-282 equivalent? In-Reply-To: <00e501c6479b$67a530e0$047ba8c0@HOME01> References: <00e501c6479b$67a530e0$047ba8c0@HOME01> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060314123251.0258dc40@cox.net> My old yellowed book says it is a MJ2841, should be able to cross ref with NTE or one of those. At 07:13 PM 3/14/2006 +0000, you wrote: >Hi > >Does anyone have an equivalent for the power transistor used as a >53v regulator on the H/Z89 video board? The transistor is a NPN >device in a TO3 package and is marked 417-282. On the silkscreen of >my video board (85-2453-1) it's shown as Q213 but is shown as Q204 >in the schematic I have (as mentioned previously). Mine has gone s/c >emitter-collector. :-( > >Thanks in advance >Robin > > > > > Joe Smith joebandit jtsdadinaz Conbuilder debugger /Programmer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.england at dial.pipex.com Tue Mar 14 13:57:17 2006 From: robin.england at dial.pipex.com (Robin England) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 19:57:17 -0000 Subject: [sebhc] Power transistor 417-282 equivalent? References: <00e501c6479b$67a530e0$047ba8c0@HOME01> <7.0.1.0.2.20060314123251.0258dc40@cox.net> Message-ID: <0bb401c647a1$80432a70$047ba8c0@HOME01> Thanks Joe. BTW thanks to you (and others) who suggested replacing the bridge rectifier to get rid of the hum bars I was experiencing (back in January). On my working Z89 this has indeed cured the problem. In the end I used a KBPC10-005 (50V / 10A) which I got from Maplin (code AR82) here in the UK. I have replaced the molex connectors rather than soldering them (I'd like to keep the computer as 'original' as possible!). Thanks again Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Smith To: sebhc at sebhc.org Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 7:34 PM Subject: Re: [sebhc] Power transistor 417-282 equivalent? My old yellowed book says it is a MJ2841, should be able to cross ref with NTE or one of those. At 07:13 PM 3/14/2006 +0000, you wrote: Hi Does anyone have an equivalent for the power transistor used as a 53v regulator on the H/Z89 video board? The transistor is a NPN device in a TO3 package and is marked 417-282. On the silkscreen of my video board (85-2453-1) it's shown as Q213 but is shown as Q204 in the schematic I have (as mentioned previously). Mine has gone s/c emitter-collector. :-( Thanks in advance Robin Joe Smith joebandit jtsdadinaz Conbuilder debugger /Programmer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sp11 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 14 14:28:12 2006 From: sp11 at hotmail.com (Steven Parker) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 20:28:12 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] Re: large schematics In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060314131932.0385e4c0@patswayne.com> Message-ID: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 20:28:12 GMT >>how do you scan the large schematics and pictorial booklets? > >One solution is to scan the document in pieces, and then use AutoStitch to >put them together. You'll be amazed at how well it works. You can get it >free... I notice from the FAQ that the free demo version doesn't do planar projections. You can see the effect of the spherical projection when you run the demo (which is most impressive) on the supplied images of a mountain. It's not clear how the computations determine what the distance to the subject is. If it thought the schematic parts were small distant objects it would probably paste them with unnoticeable distortion. I am reasonably proficient at manual planar-projection stiching. Sometime soon I plan to post some photos of boards from H8 "#1" which I set on a small scanner and stitched by hand. By the way, Pat, I learned how to stitch images working on LP covers. :-) -- Steven -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dave06a at dunfield.com Tue Mar 14 14:25:35 2006 From: dave06a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:25:35 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060314081703.025b6ce8@cox.net> References: <20060314150549.NXCH29380.berlinr.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> Message-ID: <20060314202612.RUYQ29380.berlinr.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> > Wasn't talking about zip files Dave,the little file that is inside of the zip. > Example:PIE 1.5b Distribution Disk, that is what is in the PIE.zip, > how does one read that file into something understandable? > Kind of like uuencode/decode.. I don't recognize "PIE" - is this somthing you downloaded from my site? If so, it's something that I've forgotten about (and not something I created) - give me a reminder as to where (exactly) is is? Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com Tue Mar 14 14:36:11 2006 From: RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com (West, Ronald S.) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:36:11 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive Message-ID: <9CE060225CD128408F0B549B0A6B26BC01ED0BCA@0015-its-exmb01.us.saic.com> FYI: PIE is a text editor that was popular back then. Made use of the features of the H19 terminal. Ron -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Dave Dunfield Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 3:26 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive > Wasn't talking about zip files Dave,the little file that is inside of > the zip. Example:PIE 1.5b Distribution Disk, that is what is in the > PIE.zip, how does one read that file into something understandable? > Kind of like uuencode/decode.. I don't recognize "PIE" - is this somthing you downloaded from my site? If so, it's something that I've forgotten about (and not something I created) - give me a reminder as to where (exactly) is is? Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Tue Mar 14 14:54:05 2006 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:54:05 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Power transistor 417-282 equivalent? References: <00e501c6479b$67a530e0$047ba8c0@HOME01> <7.0.1.0.2.20060314123251.0258dc40@cox.net> <0bb401c647a1$80432a70$047ba8c0@HOME01> Message-ID: <44172D6D.C6030F59@earthlink.net> Robin wrote: > Thanks to you (and others) who suggested replacing the bridge > rectifier to get rid of the hum bars I was experiencing (back in > January). On my working Z89 this has indeed cured the problem... > I have replaced the molex connectors rather than soldering them > (I'd like to keep the computer as 'original' as possible!). The originals from the factory came with the yellow wires soldered directly to the bridge rectifier! The original models used the connector; it burned up when too many I/O and internal disk drivers were used; so Heath eliminated the connector and soldered the yellow wires in later production models. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From bandit1921 at cox.net Tue Mar 14 15:51:36 2006 From: bandit1921 at cox.net (Joe Smith) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:51:36 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive In-Reply-To: <20060314202612.RUYQ29380.berlinr.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> References: <20060314150549.NXCH29380.berlinr.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> <20060314202612.RUYQ29380.berlinr.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060314145114.025c05a8@cox.net> It is in the archive under cpm software At 03:25 PM 3/14/2006 -0500, you wrote: > > Wasn't talking about zip files Dave,the little file that is > inside of the zip. > > Example:PIE 1.5b Distribution Disk, that is what is in the PIE.zip, > > how does one read that file into something understandable? > > Kind of like uuencode/decode.. > >I don't recognize "PIE" - is this somthing you downloaded from my >site? If so, it's something that I've forgotten about (and not something >I created) - give me a reminder as to where (exactly) is is? > >Dave > >-- >dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield >dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com >com Collector of vintage computing equipment: > http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List Joe Smith joebandit jtsdadinaz Conbuilder debugger /Programmer -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From me at patswayne.com Tue Mar 14 16:04:22 2006 From: me at patswayne.com (Pat Swayne) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 17:04:22 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Re: large schematics In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060314131932.0385e4c0@patswayne.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060314170045.0385e318@patswayne.com> Steven wrote: >I notice from the FAQ that the free demo version doesn't do planar >projections. You can see the effect of the spherical projection >when you run the demo (which is most impressive) on the supplied >images of a mountain. It's not clear how the computations determine >what the distance to the subject is. If it thought the schematic >parts were small distant objects it would probably paste them with >unnoticeable distortion. A good photo editing program can "correct" the spherical "distortion". There was a slight distortion on the stitched LP cover, which I corrected that way. >By the way, Pat, I learned how to stitch images working on LP covers. :-) I used to stitch LP covers by hand, with an early version of Paint Shop Pro. AutoStitch is so much easier. -- Pat -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Mar 14 16:07:56 2006 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:07:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive Message-ID: <200603142207.OAA02790@ca2h0430.amd.com> Hi Most early CP/M used interleaving of the sectors. Once it is un-zipped, it is still just a raw image. If you wanted to look at specific files, you'd need to figure the inteleaving. Dwight >From: "Joe Smith" > >It is in the archive under cpm software >At 03:25 PM 3/14/2006 -0500, you wrote: >> > Wasn't talking about zip files Dave,the little file that is >> inside of the zip. >> > Example:PIE 1.5b Distribution Disk, that is what is in the PIE.zip, >> > how does one read that file into something understandable? >> > Kind of like uuencode/decode.. >> >>I don't recognize "PIE" - is this somthing you downloaded from my >>site? If so, it's something that I've forgotten about (and not something >>I created) - give me a reminder as to where (exactly) is is? >> >>Dave >> >>-- >>dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield >>dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com >>com Collector of vintage computing equipment: >> http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html >> >>-- >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > >Joe Smith >joebandit >jtsdadinaz >Conbuilder debugger /Programmer > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From bandit1921 at cox.net Tue Mar 14 16:15:52 2006 From: bandit1921 at cox.net (Joe Smith) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:15:52 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive In-Reply-To: <200603142207.OAA02790@ca2h0430.amd.com> References: <200603142207.OAA02790@ca2h0430.amd.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060314151514.025c7458@cox.net> Even if I could write it out to a 1.44 disk would be good, that is what I need to know, what utility does that? At 02:07 PM 3/14/2006 -0800, you wrote: >Hi > Most early CP/M used interleaving of the sectors. >Once it is un-zipped, it is still just a raw image. >If you wanted to look at specific files, you'd need >to figure the inteleaving. >Dwight > > >From: "Joe Smith" > > > >It is in the archive under cpm software > >At 03:25 PM 3/14/2006 -0500, you wrote: > >> > Wasn't talking about zip files Dave,the little file that is > >> inside of the zip. > >> > Example:PIE 1.5b Distribution Disk, that is what is in the PIE.zip, > >> > how does one read that file into something understandable? > >> > Kind of like uuencode/decode.. > >> > >>I don't recognize "PIE" - is this somthing you downloaded from my > >>site? If so, it's something that I've forgotten about (and not something > >>I created) - give me a reminder as to where (exactly) is is? > >> > >>Dave > >> > >>-- > >>dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield > >>dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com > >>com Collector of vintage computing equipment: > >> http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html > >> > >>-- > >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > >Joe Smith > >joebandit > >jtsdadinaz > >Conbuilder debugger /Programmer > > > >-- > >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List Joe Smith joebandit jtsdadinaz Conbuilder debugger /Programmer -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Tue Mar 14 15:48:26 2006 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:48:26 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] H-89 bus pin out Help References: Message-ID: <44173A2A.A55C7923@earthlink.net> The H89 CPU board has *3* different pinouts for the six expansion sockets. The leftmost group of 3 are memory expansion sockets. They were originally intended to add ROM cards (Benton Harbor BASIC, etc.); thus they don't have a Write line. They have the data bus (D0-D7), part of the address bus (A0-A12), 3 decoded chip select lines (RD5,6,7), two output bits from the General Purpose port (MEM0, MEM1, intended for bank select), and the +5v, +12v, and -12v supplies and ground. Later of course, they were used for RAM memory expansion (notably another 16k of dynamic RAM to bring the total up to 64k). To do this, they added a jumper wire and a 16-pin flat cable to bring in the missing Write, -5v, and address lines. The rightmost group of 3 are the I/O expansion. The rightmost one is unique, and intended for the hard-sector controller. The other two are identical. These connectors have the data bus (D0-D7), a few address bits (A0-A2), Read, Write, Wait, Clock, Reset, four decoded I/O selects, 2 bits from the General Purpose port (I/O#0, I/O#1), 3 interrupt lines, and the +5v, +12v, -12v supplies, and ground. The hard-sector I/O slot replaces 2 of 4 decoded I/O selects with a 5th I/O select, and a write-protect output to write-protect the onboard 2k bytes of static RAM (only used for HDOS). -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Mar 14 16:24:50 2006 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:24:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive Message-ID: <200603142224.OAA03208@ca2h0430.amd.com> Hi Joe If the it is an ascii text file that you are trying to recover, you can write a simple program, in the language of your choice, to reorder the sectors. Once you know the order, extracting the file should be relatively easy. I'm assuming it is a text file that you are trying to look at. You just need to know the sector size and the number of sectors per track. Buffer a track at a time, un-scramble the sectors and write the buffer to a file. Once you locate the file you want, just read it out. I dn't know of any specifc utility for this. You should write your own. If it is good, put it on the site. Dwight >From: "Joe Smith" > >Even if I could write it out to a 1.44 disk would be good, that is >what I need to know, what utility does that? >At 02:07 PM 3/14/2006 -0800, you wrote: >>Hi >> Most early CP/M used interleaving of the sectors. >>Once it is un-zipped, it is still just a raw image. >>If you wanted to look at specific files, you'd need >>to figure the inteleaving. >>Dwight >> >> >From: "Joe Smith" >> > >> >It is in the archive under cpm software >> >At 03:25 PM 3/14/2006 -0500, you wrote: >> >> > Wasn't talking about zip files Dave,the little file that is >> >> inside of the zip. >> >> > Example:PIE 1.5b Distribution Disk, that is what is in the PIE.zip, >> >> > how does one read that file into something understandable? >> >> > Kind of like uuencode/decode.. >> >> >> >>I don't recognize "PIE" - is this somthing you downloaded from my >> >>site? If so, it's something that I've forgotten about (and not something >> >>I created) - give me a reminder as to where (exactly) is is? >> >> >> >>Dave >> >> >> >>-- >> >>dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield >> >>dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com >> >>com Collector of vintage computing equipment: >> >> http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html >> >> >> >>-- >> >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> > >> >Joe Smith >> >joebandit >> >jtsdadinaz >> >Conbuilder debugger /Programmer >> > >> >-- >> >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> >> >>-- >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > >Joe Smith >joebandit >jtsdadinaz >Conbuilder debugger /Programmer > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From bandit1921 at cox.net Tue Mar 14 16:36:03 2006 From: bandit1921 at cox.net (Joe Smith) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:36:03 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive In-Reply-To: <200603142224.OAA03208@ca2h0430.amd.com> References: <200603142224.OAA03208@ca2h0430.amd.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060314153505.025b9150@cox.net> All those images and no way to turn them back into disks? That is basically what I want to know,I don't really see anything that lets you do that.Nor is it very clear about what and how. At 02:24 PM 3/14/2006 -0800, you wrote: >Hi Joe > If the it is an ascii text file that >you are trying to recover, you can write a simple >program, in the language of your choice, to reorder >the sectors. Once you know the order, extracting >the file should be relatively easy. I'm assuming >it is a text file that you are trying to look at. > You just need to know the sector size and the number >of sectors per track. Buffer a track at a time, >un-scramble the sectors and write the buffer to >a file. Once you locate the file you want, just >read it out. > I dn't know of any specifc utility for this. You >should write your own. If it is good, put it on >the site. >Dwight > > > >From: "Joe Smith" > > > >Even if I could write it out to a 1.44 disk would be good, that is > >what I need to know, what utility does that? > >At 02:07 PM 3/14/2006 -0800, you wrote: > >>Hi > >> Most early CP/M used interleaving of the sectors. > >>Once it is un-zipped, it is still just a raw image. > >>If you wanted to look at specific files, you'd need > >>to figure the inteleaving. > >>Dwight > >> > >> >From: "Joe Smith" > >> > > >> >It is in the archive under cpm software > >> >At 03:25 PM 3/14/2006 -0500, you wrote: > >> >> > Wasn't talking about zip files Dave,the little file that is > >> >> inside of the zip. > >> >> > Example:PIE 1.5b Distribution Disk, that is what is in the PIE.zip, > >> >> > how does one read that file into something understandable? > >> >> > Kind of like uuencode/decode.. > >> >> > >> >>I don't recognize "PIE" - is this somthing you downloaded from my > >> >>site? If so, it's something that I've forgotten about (and not something > >> >>I created) - give me a reminder as to where (exactly) is is? > >> >> > >> >>Dave > >> >> > >> >>-- > >> >>dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield > >> >>dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com > >> >>com Collector of vintage computing equipment: > >> >> http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html > >> >> > >> >>-- > >> >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > >> > > >> >Joe Smith > >> >joebandit > >> >jtsdadinaz > >> >Conbuilder debugger /Programmer > >> > > >> >-- > >> >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > >> > >> > >>-- > >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > >Joe Smith > >joebandit > >jtsdadinaz > >Conbuilder debugger /Programmer > > > >-- > >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List Joe Smith joebandit jtsdadinaz Conbuilder debugger /Programmer -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Mar 14 16:43:50 2006 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:43:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive Message-ID: <200603142243.OAA03738@ca2h0430.amd.com> Hi Joe I only know about the hard sectored images. These are all just sector by sector copies and there is a way to put them back on disk using the utility on the site that I wrote. Who ever created the soft sectored images can speak up and tell you what tool he used. I'm sure they can be put back on disk with the same tool. Dwight >From: "Joe Smith" > >All those images and no way to turn them back into disks? That is >basically what I want to know,I don't really see anything that lets >you do that.Nor is it very clear about what and how. >At 02:24 PM 3/14/2006 -0800, you wrote: >>Hi Joe >> If the it is an ascii text file that >>you are trying to recover, you can write a simple >>program, in the language of your choice, to reorder >>the sectors. Once you know the order, extracting >>the file should be relatively easy. I'm assuming >>it is a text file that you are trying to look at. >> You just need to know the sector size and the number >>of sectors per track. Buffer a track at a time, >>un-scramble the sectors and write the buffer to >>a file. Once you locate the file you want, just >>read it out. >> I dn't know of any specifc utility for this. You >>should write your own. If it is good, put it on >>the site. >>Dwight >> >> >> >From: "Joe Smith" >> > >> >Even if I could write it out to a 1.44 disk would be good, that is >> >what I need to know, what utility does that? >> >At 02:07 PM 3/14/2006 -0800, you wrote: >> >>Hi >> >> Most early CP/M used interleaving of the sectors. >> >>Once it is un-zipped, it is still just a raw image. >> >>If you wanted to look at specific files, you'd need >> >>to figure the inteleaving. >> >>Dwight >> >> >> >> >From: "Joe Smith" >> >> > >> >> >It is in the archive under cpm software >> >> >At 03:25 PM 3/14/2006 -0500, you wrote: >> >> >> > Wasn't talking about zip files Dave,the little file that is >> >> >> inside of the zip. >> >> >> > Example:PIE 1.5b Distribution Disk, that is what is in the PIE.zip, >> >> >> > how does one read that file into something understandable? >> >> >> > Kind of like uuencode/decode.. >> >> >> >> >> >>I don't recognize "PIE" - is this somthing you downloaded from my >> >> >>site? If so, it's something that I've forgotten about (and not something >> >> >>I created) - give me a reminder as to where (exactly) is is? >> >> >> >> >> >>Dave >> >> >> >> >> >>-- >> >> >>dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield >> >> >>dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com >> >> >>com Collector of vintage computing equipment: >> >> >> http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html >> >> >> >> >> >>-- >> >> >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> >> > >> >> >Joe Smith >> >> >joebandit >> >> >jtsdadinaz >> >> >Conbuilder debugger /Programmer >> >> > >> >> >-- >> >> >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> >> >> >> >> >>-- >> >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> > >> >Joe Smith >> >joebandit >> >jtsdadinaz >> >Conbuilder debugger /Programmer >> > >> >-- >> >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> >> >>-- >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > >Joe Smith >joebandit >jtsdadinaz >Conbuilder debugger /Programmer > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Tue Mar 14 15:22:03 2006 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:22:03 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Power transistor 417-282 equivalent? References: <00e501c6479b$67a530e0$047ba8c0@HOME01> Message-ID: <441733FB.5B107845@earthlink.net> Robin England wrote: > Does anyone have an equivalent for the power transistor used as a 53v > regulator on the H/Z89 video board? The transistor is a NPN device in > a TO3 package and is marked 417-282. On the silkscreen of my video > board (85-2453-1) it's shown as Q213 but is shown as Q204 in the > schematic I have (as mentioned previously). Mine has gone s/c > emitter-collector. :-( Robin, I have plenty of these. Email me your mailing address and I'll send you one. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Mar 14 17:07:19 2006 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:07:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive Message-ID: <200603142307.PAA04423@ca2h0430.amd.com> Hi Joe Now I'm confused. Where did you get the file you are talking about. I looked on www.sebhc.org/archive/ and only see hard sectored stuff for the CPM files. Where did you find the zip file? If I can look at the file, maybe I can help. Otherwise who knows. Dwight >From: "Dwight Elvey" > >Hi Joe > I only know about the hard sectored images. >These are all just sector by sector copies >and there is a way to put them back on disk >using the utility on the site that I wrote. > Who ever created the soft sectored images >can speak up and tell you what tool he used. >I'm sure they can be put back on disk with >the same tool. >Dwight > > >>From: "Joe Smith" >> >>All those images and no way to turn them back into disks? That is >>basically what I want to know,I don't really see anything that lets >>you do that.Nor is it very clear about what and how. >>At 02:24 PM 3/14/2006 -0800, you wrote: >>>Hi Joe >>> If the it is an ascii text file that >>>you are trying to recover, you can write a simple >>>program, in the language of your choice, to reorder >>>the sectors. Once you know the order, extracting >>>the file should be relatively easy. I'm assuming >>>it is a text file that you are trying to look at. >>> You just need to know the sector size and the number >>>of sectors per track. Buffer a track at a time, >>>un-scramble the sectors and write the buffer to >>>a file. Once you locate the file you want, just >>>read it out. >>> I dn't know of any specifc utility for this. You >>>should write your own. If it is good, put it on >>>the site. >>>Dwight >>> >>> >>> >From: "Joe Smith" >>> > >>> >Even if I could write it out to a 1.44 disk would be good, that is >>> >what I need to know, what utility does that? >>> >At 02:07 PM 3/14/2006 -0800, you wrote: >>> >>Hi >>> >> Most early CP/M used interleaving of the sectors. >>> >>Once it is un-zipped, it is still just a raw image. >>> >>If you wanted to look at specific files, you'd need >>> >>to figure the inteleaving. >>> >>Dwight >>> >> >>> >> >From: "Joe Smith" >>> >> > >>> >> >It is in the archive under cpm software >>> >> >At 03:25 PM 3/14/2006 -0500, you wrote: >>> >> >> > Wasn't talking about zip files Dave,the little file that is >>> >> >> inside of the zip. >>> >> >> > Example:PIE 1.5b Distribution Disk, that is what is in the PIE.zip, >>> >> >> > how does one read that file into something understandable? >>> >> >> > Kind of like uuencode/decode.. >>> >> >> >>> >> >>I don't recognize "PIE" - is this somthing you downloaded from my >>> >> >>site? If so, it's something that I've forgotten about (and not something >>> >> >>I created) - give me a reminder as to where (exactly) is is? >>> >> >> >>> >> >>Dave >>> >> >> >>> >> >>-- >>> >> >>dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield >>> >> >>dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com >>> >> >>com Collector of vintage computing equipment: >>> >> >> http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html >>> >> >> >>> >> >>-- >>> >> >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >>> >> > >>> >> >Joe Smith >>> >> >joebandit >>> >> >jtsdadinaz >>> >> >Conbuilder debugger /Programmer >>> >> > >>> >> >-- >>> >> >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>-- >>> >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >>> > >>> >Joe Smith >>> >joebandit >>> >jtsdadinaz >>> >Conbuilder debugger /Programmer >>> > >>> >-- >>> >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >>> >>> >>>-- >>>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> >>Joe Smith >>joebandit >>jtsdadinaz >>Conbuilder debugger /Programmer >> >>-- >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From bandit1921 at cox.net Tue Mar 14 17:01:04 2006 From: bandit1921 at cox.net (Joe Smith) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:01:04 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive In-Reply-To: <200603142243.OAA03738@ca2h0430.amd.com> References: <200603142243.OAA03738@ca2h0430.amd.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060314160017.025c06d0@cox.net> To be a bit more specific, which tool Dwight? At 02:43 PM 3/14/2006 -0800, you wrote: >Hi Joe > I only know about the hard sectored images. >These are all just sector by sector copies >and there is a way to put them back on disk >using the utility on the site that I wrote. > Who ever created the soft sectored images >can speak up and tell you what tool he used. >I'm sure they can be put back on disk with >the same tool. >Dwight > > > >From: "Joe Smith" > > > >All those images and no way to turn them back into disks? That is > >basically what I want to know,I don't really see anything that lets > >you do that.Nor is it very clear about what and how. > >At 02:24 PM 3/14/2006 -0800, you wrote: > >>Hi Joe > >> If the it is an ascii text file that > >>you are trying to recover, you can write a simple > >>program, in the language of your choice, to reorder > >>the sectors. Once you know the order, extracting > >>the file should be relatively easy. I'm assuming > >>it is a text file that you are trying to look at. > >> You just need to know the sector size and the number > >>of sectors per track. Buffer a track at a time, > >>un-scramble the sectors and write the buffer to > >>a file. Once you locate the file you want, just > >>read it out. > >> I dn't know of any specifc utility for this. You > >>should write your own. If it is good, put it on > >>the site. > >>Dwight > >> > >> > >> >From: "Joe Smith" > >> > > >> >Even if I could write it out to a 1.44 disk would be good, that is > >> >what I need to know, what utility does that? > >> >At 02:07 PM 3/14/2006 -0800, you wrote: > >> >>Hi > >> >> Most early CP/M used interleaving of the sectors. > >> >>Once it is un-zipped, it is still just a raw image. > >> >>If you wanted to look at specific files, you'd need > >> >>to figure the inteleaving. > >> >>Dwight > >> >> > >> >> >From: "Joe Smith" > >> >> > > >> >> >It is in the archive under cpm software > >> >> >At 03:25 PM 3/14/2006 -0500, you wrote: > >> >> >> > Wasn't talking about zip files Dave,the little file that is > >> >> >> inside of the zip. > >> >> >> > Example:PIE 1.5b Distribution Disk, that is what is in > the PIE.zip, > >> >> >> > how does one read that file into something understandable? > >> >> >> > Kind of like uuencode/decode.. > >> >> >> > >> >> >>I don't recognize "PIE" - is this somthing you downloaded from my > >> >> >>site? If so, it's something that I've forgotten about (and > not something > >> >> >>I created) - give me a reminder as to where (exactly) is is? > >> >> >> > >> >> >>Dave > >> >> >> > >> >> >>-- > >> >> >>dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield > >> >> >>dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: > www.dunfield.com > >> >> >>com Collector of vintage computing equipment: > >> >> >> http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html > >> >> >> > >> >> >>-- > >> >> >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > >> >> > > >> >> >Joe Smith > >> >> >joebandit > >> >> >jtsdadinaz > >> >> >Conbuilder debugger /Programmer > >> >> > > >> >> >-- > >> >> >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>-- > >> >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > >> > > >> >Joe Smith > >> >joebandit > >> >jtsdadinaz > >> >Conbuilder debugger /Programmer > >> > > >> >-- > >> >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > >> > >> > >>-- > >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > >Joe Smith > >joebandit > >jtsdadinaz > >Conbuilder debugger /Programmer > > > >-- > >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List Joe Smith joebandit jtsdadinaz Conbuilder debugger /Programmer -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From wm65805 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 14 17:11:54 2006 From: wm65805 at hotmail.com (bill malcolm) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 17:11:54 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] H-89 bus pin out Help References: <44173A2A.A55C7923@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 23:16:54 +0000 Thanks for the info : Do you have exact pin out for the 25 pins. I have found some of the information on the H-17 card. bill . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Hart" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [sebhc] H-89 bus pin out Help > The H89 CPU board has *3* different pinouts for the six expansion > sockets. > > The leftmost group of 3 are memory expansion sockets. They were > originally intended to add ROM cards (Benton Harbor BASIC, etc.); thus > they don't have a Write line. They have the data bus (D0-D7), part of > the address bus (A0-A12), 3 decoded chip select lines (RD5,6,7), two > output bits from the General Purpose port (MEM0, MEM1, intended for bank > select), and the +5v, +12v, and -12v supplies and ground. Later of > course, they were used for RAM memory expansion (notably another 16k of > dynamic RAM to bring the total up to 64k). To do this, they added a > jumper wire and a 16-pin flat cable to bring in the missing Write, -5v, > and address lines. > > The rightmost group of 3 are the I/O expansion. The rightmost one is > unique, and intended for the hard-sector controller. The other two are > identical. These connectors have the data bus (D0-D7), a few address > bits (A0-A2), Read, Write, Wait, Clock, Reset, four decoded I/O selects, > 2 bits from the General Purpose port (I/O#0, I/O#1), 3 interrupt lines, > and the +5v, +12v, -12v supplies, and ground. > > The hard-sector I/O slot replaces 2 of 4 decoded I/O selects with a 5th > I/O select, and a write-protect output to write-protect the onboard 2k > bytes of static RAM (only used for HDOS). > -- > Ring the bells that still can ring > Forget the perfect offering > There is a crack in everything > That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen > -- > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From bandit1921 at cox.net Tue Mar 14 17:19:22 2006 From: bandit1921 at cox.net (Joe Smith) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:19:22 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive In-Reply-To: <200603142307.PAA04423@ca2h0430.amd.com> References: <200603142307.PAA04423@ca2h0430.amd.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060314161716.0257a908@cox.net> It is under software/disk-images/other .. Or basically how does one make a disk out of the h8d files? At 03:07 PM 3/14/2006 -0800, you wrote: >Hi Joe > Now I'm confused. Where did you get the file >you are talking about. I looked on www.sebhc.org/archive/ >and only see hard sectored stuff for the CPM files. >Where did you find the zip file? If I can look at the file, >maybe I can help. Otherwise who knows. >Dwight > > > >From: "Dwight Elvey" > > > >Hi Joe > > I only know about the hard sectored images. > >These are all just sector by sector copies > >and there is a way to put them back on disk > >using the utility on the site that I wrote. > > Who ever created the soft sectored images > >can speak up and tell you what tool he used. > >I'm sure they can be put back on disk with > >the same tool. > >Dwight > > > > > >>From: "Joe Smith" > >> > >>All those images and no way to turn them back into disks? That is > >>basically what I want to know,I don't really see anything that lets > >>you do that.Nor is it very clear about what and how. > >>At 02:24 PM 3/14/2006 -0800, you wrote: > >>>Hi Joe > >>> If the it is an ascii text file that > >>>you are trying to recover, you can write a simple > >>>program, in the language of your choice, to reorder > >>>the sectors. Once you know the order, extracting > >>>the file should be relatively easy. I'm assuming > >>>it is a text file that you are trying to look at. > >>> You just need to know the sector size and the number > >>>of sectors per track. Buffer a track at a time, > >>>un-scramble the sectors and write the buffer to > >>>a file. Once you locate the file you want, just > >>>read it out. > >>> I dn't know of any specifc utility for this. You > >>>should write your own. If it is good, put it on > >>>the site. > >>>Dwight > >>> > >>> > >>> >From: "Joe Smith" > >>> > > >>> >Even if I could write it out to a 1.44 disk would be good, that is > >>> >what I need to know, what utility does that? > >>> >At 02:07 PM 3/14/2006 -0800, you wrote: > >>> >>Hi > >>> >> Most early CP/M used interleaving of the sectors. > >>> >>Once it is un-zipped, it is still just a raw image. > >>> >>If you wanted to look at specific files, you'd need > >>> >>to figure the inteleaving. > >>> >>Dwight > >>> >> > >>> >> >From: "Joe Smith" > >>> >> > > >>> >> >It is in the archive under cpm software > >>> >> >At 03:25 PM 3/14/2006 -0500, you wrote: > >>> >> >> > Wasn't talking about zip files Dave,the little file that is > >>> >> >> inside of the zip. > >>> >> >> > Example:PIE 1.5b Distribution Disk, that is what is in > the PIE.zip, > >>> >> >> > how does one read that file into something understandable? > >>> >> >> > Kind of like uuencode/decode.. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >>I don't recognize "PIE" - is this somthing you downloaded from my > >>> >> >>site? If so, it's something that I've forgotten about (and not >something > >>> >> >>I created) - give me a reminder as to where (exactly) is is? > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >>Dave > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >>-- > >>> >> >>dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield > >>> >> >>dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: > www.dunfield.com > >>> >> >>com Collector of vintage computing equipment: > >>> >> >> http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >>-- > >>> >> >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > >>> >> > > >>> >> >Joe Smith > >>> >> >joebandit > >>> >> >jtsdadinaz > >>> >> >Conbuilder debugger /Programmer > >>> >> > > >>> >> >-- > >>> >> >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >>-- > >>> >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > >>> > > >>> >Joe Smith > >>> >joebandit > >>> >jtsdadinaz > >>> >Conbuilder debugger /Programmer > >>> > > >>> >-- > >>> >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > >>> > >>> > >>>-- > >>>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > >> > >>Joe Smith > >>joebandit > >>jtsdadinaz > >>Conbuilder debugger /Programmer > >> > >>-- > >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > > >-- > >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List Joe Smith joebandit jtsdadinaz Conbuilder debugger /Programmer -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Mar 14 17:58:01 2006 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:58:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive Message-ID: <200603142358.PAA05731@ca2h0430.amd.com> Hi Joe .h8d are a hard sectored images. Use my utility in the utilities directory. You need to actually write the disk on a H89 with a hard sectored controller. You'll need a PC that boots to real DOS, serial cable and the H89 must have a serial board with the LP: port. You also need a hard sectored disk. I just described this to someone else a few messages back. Using H89LDR9.ZIP. Dave's site has some tools to handle emulation on the a PC and I think he has a way to transform h8d files to his format used by his emulator. I doubt that PIE for hard sector HDOS would run under CP/M. Dwight >From: "Joe Smith" > >It is under software/disk-images/other .. Or basically how does one >make a disk out of the h8d files? > >At 03:07 PM 3/14/2006 -0800, you wrote: >>Hi Joe >> Now I'm confused. Where did you get the file >>you are talking about. I looked on www.sebhc.org/archive/ >>and only see hard sectored stuff for the CPM files. >>Where did you find the zip file? If I can look at the file, >>maybe I can help. Otherwise who knows. >>Dwight >> >> >> >From: "Dwight Elvey" >> > >> >Hi Joe >> > I only know about the hard sectored images. >> >These are all just sector by sector copies >> >and there is a way to put them back on disk >> >using the utility on the site that I wrote. >> > Who ever created the soft sectored images >> >can speak up and tell you what tool he used. >> >I'm sure they can be put back on disk with >> >the same tool. >> >Dwight >> > >> > >> >>From: "Joe Smith" >> >> >> >>All those images and no way to turn them back into disks? That is >> >>basically what I want to know,I don't really see anything that lets >> >>you do that.Nor is it very clear about what and how. >> >>At 02:24 PM 3/14/2006 -0800, you wrote: >> >>>Hi Joe >> >>> If the it is an ascii text file that >> >>>you are trying to recover, you can write a simple >> >>>program, in the language of your choice, to reorder >> >>>the sectors. Once you know the order, extracting >> >>>the file should be relatively easy. I'm assuming >> >>>it is a text file that you are trying to look at. >> >>> You just need to know the sector size and the number >> >>>of sectors per track. Buffer a track at a time, >> >>>un-scramble the sectors and write the buffer to >> >>>a file. Once you locate the file you want, just >> >>>read it out. >> >>> I dn't know of any specifc utility for this. You >> >>>should write your own. If it is good, put it on >> >>>the site. >> >>>Dwight >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >From: "Joe Smith" >> >>> > >> >>> >Even if I could write it out to a 1.44 disk would be good, that is >> >>> >what I need to know, what utility does that? >> >>> >At 02:07 PM 3/14/2006 -0800, you wrote: >> >>> >>Hi >> >>> >> Most early CP/M used interleaving of the sectors. >> >>> >>Once it is un-zipped, it is still just a raw image. >> >>> >>If you wanted to look at specific files, you'd need >> >>> >>to figure the inteleaving. >> >>> >>Dwight >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >From: "Joe Smith" >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> >It is in the archive under cpm software >> >>> >> >At 03:25 PM 3/14/2006 -0500, you wrote: >> >>> >> >> > Wasn't talking about zip files Dave,the little file that is >> >>> >> >> inside of the zip. >> >>> >> >> > Example:PIE 1.5b Distribution Disk, that is what is in >> the PIE.zip, >> >>> >> >> > how does one read that file into something understandable? >> >>> >> >> > Kind of like uuencode/decode.. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >>I don't recognize "PIE" - is this somthing you downloaded from my >> >>> >> >>site? If so, it's something that I've forgotten about (and not >>something >> >>> >> >>I created) - give me a reminder as to where (exactly) is is? >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >>Dave >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >>-- >> >>> >> >>dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield >> >>> >> >>dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: >> www.dunfield.com >> >>> >> >>com Collector of vintage computing equipment: >> >>> >> >> http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >>-- >> >>> >> >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> >Joe Smith >> >>> >> >joebandit >> >>> >> >jtsdadinaz >> >>> >> >Conbuilder debugger /Programmer >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> >-- >> >>> >> >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >>-- >> >>> >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> >>> > >> >>> >Joe Smith >> >>> >joebandit >> >>> >jtsdadinaz >> >>> >Conbuilder debugger /Programmer >> >>> > >> >>> >-- >> >>> >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>-- >> >>>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> >> >> >>Joe Smith >> >>joebandit >> >>jtsdadinaz >> >>Conbuilder debugger /Programmer >> >> >> >>-- >> >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> > >> > >> >-- >> >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> >> >>-- >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > >Joe Smith >joebandit >jtsdadinaz >Conbuilder debugger /Programmer > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Tue Mar 14 19:27:41 2006 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 19:27:41 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive References: <200603142224.OAA03208@ca2h0430.amd.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060314153505.025b9150@cox.net> Message-ID: <44176D8D.B12D498C@earthlink.net> Joe Smith wrote: > All those images and no way to turn them back into disks? That is > basically what I want to know, I don't really see anything that > lets you do that. Heath's standard disk distribution format was 5.25", single-sided, single density (about 90k per disk) for *both* hard-sector (H17) and soft-sector (H37) controllers. Obviously, the soft-sector controller could store a lot more by using double- or extended-density and/or double-sided. But keeping the same single-density format made it easy to put your master distribution files on a disk -- both have the same layout; same tracks, same sector size, same number of sectors. I think that the Heath format puts the sector numbers *in* in sectors; thus interleave doesn't make any difference in the data read; just the physical position it has on the disk. The operating system says "read sector 1." The disk controller keeps reading until it finds sector 1 and reads it. The sectors might start anywhere, and go by in any order. Then the operating system says "read sector 2", and the process starts again. Interleave is just a way to arrange the sector order so sector 2 happens to just get to the read head as the controller starts that read sector 2 command. Thus the time delay is minimized. If the controller is slow (for example, a 2 MHz 8080 and the software was written for a 4 MHz Z80), all that happens is that the disk controller has to wait a full revolution for sector 2 to come around again. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Mar 14 20:03:53 2006 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:03:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive Message-ID: <200603150203.SAA09219@ca2h0430.amd.com> >From: "Lee Hart" > >Joe Smith wrote: >> All those images and no way to turn them back into disks? That is >> basically what I want to know, I don't really see anything that >> lets you do that. > >Heath's standard disk distribution format was 5.25", single-sided, >single density (about 90k per disk) for *both* hard-sector (H17) and >soft-sector (H37) controllers. Obviously, the soft-sector controller >could store a lot more by using double- or extended-density and/or >double-sided. But keeping the same single-density format made it easy to >put your master distribution files on a disk -- both have the same >layout; same tracks, same sector size, same number of sectors. > >I think that the Heath format puts the sector numbers *in* in sectors; The hard sectored puts the sector number in the sector header. As you state, these can be arrange in any order on the physical disk. HDOS isn't to fussy about inteleaving but BASIC can be a real dog without the right interleaving. For BASIC, it depends on which you'd like to optimize for, reading disk or writing disk but 1:1 interleaving is real slow. All of the hard sectored images are not interleaved for HDOS. The CP/M maybe since they used an software interleaving table from 2.0 on ( may have been earlier ). ---snip--- So, should application programs that use the standard HDOS calls run on both soft sectored as well as hard sectored?? Dwight -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Tue Mar 14 20:04:20 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 21:04:20 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive In-Reply-To: <44176D8D.B12D498C@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <004201c647d4$c61101c0$6d01a8c0@barry> Interleave matters only when formatting a disk; it does not matter when reading or writing. The sector number is indeed recorded on the disk of a soft-sector disk, but it's in a "header", not the data (so if the format is 9 sectors of 256 bytes per sector, you really have a full 9*256 of data). [Also, for what it's worth, the software only looks for a match between the sector # in the header and the requested sector. You can have gaps, or odd sector numbers (sector 237 appearing in a 9-sector track) and that's fine as long as everything is understood by everyone using the diskette]. Note that while early disk controllers could benefit from this, even with a 2MHz 8080, an 8" controller using a 1771 chip (the very first Western Digital Chip, single density only) could read at full speed with zero interleave. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 8:28 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive Joe Smith wrote: > All those images and no way to turn them back into disks? That is > basically what I want to know, I don't really see anything that > lets you do that. Heath's standard disk distribution format was 5.25", single-sided, single density (about 90k per disk) for *both* hard-sector (H17) and soft-sector (H37) controllers. Obviously, the soft-sector controller could store a lot more by using double- or extended-density and/or double-sided. But keeping the same single-density format made it easy to put your master distribution files on a disk -- both have the same layout; same tracks, same sector size, same number of sectors. I think that the Heath format puts the sector numbers *in* in sectors; thus interleave doesn't make any difference in the data read; just the physical position it has on the disk. The operating system says "read sector 1." The disk controller keeps reading until it finds sector 1 and reads it. The sectors might start anywhere, and go by in any order. Then the operating system says "read sector 2", and the process starts again. Interleave is just a way to arrange the sector order so sector 2 happens to just get to the read head as the controller starts that read sector 2 command. Thus the time delay is minimized. If the controller is slow (for example, a 2 MHz 8080 and the software was written for a 4 MHz Z80), all that happens is that the disk controller has to wait a full revolution for sector 2 to come around again. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Mar 14 20:23:49 2006 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:23:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive Message-ID: <200603150223.SAA09605@ca2h0430.amd.com> >From: "Barry Watzman" > >Interleave matters only when formatting a disk; it does not matter when >reading or writing. The sector number is indeed recorded on the disk of a >soft-sector disk, but it's in a "header", not the data (so if the format is >9 sectors of 256 bytes per sector, you really have a full 9*256 of data). >[Also, for what it's worth, the software only looks for a match between the >sector # in the header and the requested sector. You can have gaps, or odd >sector numbers (sector 237 appearing in a 9-sector track) and that's fine as >long as everything is understood by everyone using the diskette]. > >Note that while early disk controllers could benefit from this, even with a >2MHz 8080, an 8" controller using a 1771 chip (the very first Western >Digital Chip, single density only) could read at full speed with zero >interleave. Hi Even if the chip can read at full speed, the application software might be asking for only a sector at a time. This was true of the BASIC that was on the H89. I had a friend with an accounting program. It was real slow until I interleaved his sectors for him. It ran about 7 or 8 times faster. Dwight ---snip--- -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Tue Mar 14 21:05:10 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 22:05:10 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive In-Reply-To: <200603150223.SAA09605@ca2h0430.amd.com> Message-ID: <004701c647dd$460e13b0$6d01a8c0@barry> That is correct, but once you get into an interpreted basic or similar (e.g. really SLOW) language, things become unpredictable; any interleave may be "best" even an interleave of zero, as the language may take a full revolution or more between it's ability to do disk I/O and process the resulting data. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Dwight Elvey Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 9:24 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: RE: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive Hi Even if the chip can read at full speed, the application software might be asking for only a sector at a time. This was true of the BASIC that was on the H89. I had a friend with an accounting program. It was real slow until I interleaved his sectors for him. It ran about 7 or 8 times faster. Dwight ---snip--- -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Tue Mar 14 21:35:03 2006 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 21:35:03 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] H-89 bus pin out Help References: <44173A2A.A55C7923@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <44178B67.F3AFF320@earthlink.net> bill malcolm wrote: > Thanks for the info: Do you have exact pin out for the 25 pins? Sure. Here they are. D0-D7 are the data bus, and A0-A15 are the address bus. The control lines are active high, unless I put a slash before them (i.e. /WAIT means wait when low). H89 Memory expansion connectors (left side of board) --------------------------------------------------- P501, P502, P503 1 = gnd 2 = D0 3 = D1 4 = D2 5 = D3 6 = D4 7 = D5 8 = D6 9 = D7 10 = gnd P507, P508, P509 1 = +5v 2 = gnd 3 = A0 4 = A1 5 = A2 6 = A3 7 = A4 8 = A5 9 = A6 10 = A7 11 = A8 12 = A9 13 = A10 14 = A11 15 = A12 16 = MEM 0 (gen.pur.port, bit 4) 17 = MEM 1 (gen.pur.port, bit 2) 18 = /RD5 (decoded Read address strobe) 19 = /RD6 (decoded Read address strobe) 20 = /RD7 (decoded Read address strobe) 21 = +12v 22 = -12v 23 = +5v 24 = +12v 25 = gnd H89 I/O expansion connectors (right side of board) ------------------------------------------------- P504, P505, P506 1 = gnd 2 = D0 3 = D1 4 = D2 5 = D3 6 = D4 7 = D5 8 = D6 9 = D7 10 = gnd P510, P511 1 = +5v 2 = gnd 3 = A0 4 = A1 5 = A2 6 = /BRD (buffered Read) 7 = /BWR (buffered Write) 8 = /WAIT 9 = /IO SER.0 (serial I/O select, port#0) 10 = /IO SER.1 (serial I/O select, port#1) 11 = /IO LP (serial I/O select, line printer) 12 = /IO CASS (serial I/O select, cass.tape) 13 = 2.048 MHz clock 14 = 1.8432 MHz clock 15 = /RESET 16 = I/O.0 (gen.pur.port, bit 6) 17 = I/O.1 (gen.pur.port, bit 7) 18 = /INT3 (interrupt priority #3) 19 = /INT4 (interrupt priority #4) 20 = /INT5 (interrupt priority #5) 21 = +12v 22 = -12v 23 = +5v 24 = +12v 25 = gnd P512 same as P510, P511 except for: 11 = /IO FLPY (hard-sector controller select) 12 = FMWEH (Floppy Memory Write Enable High) -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dave06a at dunfield.com Wed Mar 15 05:45:20 2006 From: dave06a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 06:45:20 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive In-Reply-To: <200603142358.PAA05731@ca2h0430.amd.com> Message-ID: <20060315114557.TARO8983.orval.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> > Hi Joe > .h8d are a hard sectored images. Use my utility > in the utilities directory. You need to actually > write the disk on a H89 with a hard sectored controller. > You'll need a PC that boots to real DOS, serial cable > and the H89 must have a serial board with the LP: port. > You also need a hard sectored disk. > I just described this to someone else a few messages back. > Using H89LDR9.ZIP. > Dave's site has some tools to handle emulation on the > a PC and I think he has a way to transform h8d files > to his format used by his emulator. > I doubt that PIE for hard sector HDOS would run under CP/M. > Dwight Ok - now I understand whats going on - the original message was posted in response to directions on how to find ImageDisk on my site, which caused me to think it was related to ImageDisk (or at least something from my site). Unless someone has abused the extension for other purposes, .H8D is just a raw image of the binary content of the hard-sectored disks. It does not contain the headers, and the data is in 1:1 (ie: non interleaved) ordering. I "invented" the .H8D extension name (not the file format) when I created my H8 simulator - it goes along with .H8T which is a H8 Tape Image File. The format of the .H8D file is described in the help for the simulator. Since I don't have a disk controller in my real H8, I have never actually read or written a physical disk to or from these images. I obtained my H8DOS boot disks from the SEBHC archive, and they were already in the format described - but originally named with a different extension. Since then, I believe some others have adopted the .H8D extension for this type of file. All you should have to do is to format a disk and transfer over each sector from a PC serially - and write them in order to the disk, starting with the first sector on track-0 and continuing to the end of the disk/image. I have done a similar transfer program for NorthStar hard- sectored disks, and it works exactly that way. You can mount, boot and access .H8D disk images in my PC based H8 simulator (available from my site, and also on SEBHC). If I ever get a physical H17, I would write a little program that could be booted as a tape image to read/write the disk images - Perhaps Dwights program does this? For soft-sectored disks, you should be able to use my ImageDisk program. If you have a raw-binary image, you can use the supplied BIN2IMD utility to add format information (which you will have to know and specify), and then the main IMD program to write the image to a physical floppy disk. Regards, Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From sp11 at hotmail.com Wed Mar 15 10:05:53 2006 From: sp11 at hotmail.com (Steven Parker) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:05:53 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] Free Starbucks today In-Reply-To: <20060315114557.TARO8983.orval.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> Message-ID: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:05:53 GMT Admittedly off topic, but... For the first time in company history, Starbucks is providing a complimentary "tall" cup of freshly brewed coffee to anyone who visits a Starbucks store in the U.S. from 10 am through noon today, March 15. I verified this myself with the local Starbucks. -- Steven -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Mar 15 11:43:40 2006 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:43:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive Message-ID: <200603151743.JAA26845@ca2h0430.amd.com> >From: "Dave Dunfield" > >> Hi Joe >> .h8d are a hard sectored images. Use my utility >> in the utilities directory. You need to actually >> write the disk on a H89 with a hard sectored controller. >> You'll need a PC that boots to real DOS, serial cable >> and the H89 must have a serial board with the LP: port. >> You also need a hard sectored disk. >> I just described this to someone else a few messages back. >> Using H89LDR9.ZIP. >> Dave's site has some tools to handle emulation on the >> a PC and I think he has a way to transform h8d files >> to his format used by his emulator. >> I doubt that PIE for hard sector HDOS would run under CP/M. >> Dwight > >Ok - now I understand whats going on - the original message was >posted in response to directions on how to find ImageDisk on my >site, which caused me to think it was related to ImageDisk (or at >least something from my site). Hi Dave I was getting confused as well. > >Unless someone has abused the extension for other purposes, >.H8D is just a raw image of the binary content of the hard-sectored >disks. It does not contain the headers, and the data is in 1:1 (ie: >non interleaved) ordering. > >I "invented" the .H8D extension name (not the file format) when I >created my H8 simulator - it goes along with .H8T which is a H8 >Tape Image File. The format of the .H8D file is described in the >help for the simulator. It is a good name. Originally, I create raw images with the .img name but I think others saw that in conflict with your tool. You'd already had the H8D format for your simulator so it was a natural selection to match. ---snip--- >If I ever get a physical H17, I would write a little program that could >be booted as a tape image to read/write the disk images - Perhaps >Dwights program does this? It doesn't load from tape. You need to enter 50 bytes to get the bootstrap started. Once started, one can create a non-hdos disk that will boot so that you don't need to reenter the 50 bytes( recommended but not required ). The only thing is that it was not written for a soft sectored controller and uses some vectors into the H17 ROM that are not standard HDOS disk functions. It could be rewritten to handle soft sectored if I had a soft sectored controller for either the H8 or the H89. So far I've not seen one. Of course, someone else could write the soft sectored operations and use my tool to bootstrap. As long as the code uses the same sequences that I use to load and upload images, it can be transferred. You need to be able to initialize, format, read and write sectors. > > >For soft-sectored disks, you should be able to use my ImageDisk >program. If you have a raw-binary image, you can use the supplied >BIN2IMD utility to add format information (which you will have to >know and specify), and then the main IMD program to write the >image to a physical floppy disk. They just need to have a 360K drive on the PC with your tool :) Later Dwight > >Regards, >Dave > >-- >dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield >dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com >com Collector of vintage computing equipment: > http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dave06a at dunfield.com Wed Mar 15 13:27:09 2006 From: dave06a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:27:09 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive In-Reply-To: <200603151743.JAA26845@ca2h0430.amd.com> Message-ID: <20060315192750.CBZX8983.orval.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> > >For soft-sectored disks, you should be able to use my ImageDisk > >program. If you have a raw-binary image, you can use the supplied > >BIN2IMD utility to add format information (which you will have to > >know and specify), and then the main IMD program to write the > >image to a physical floppy disk. > > They just need to have a 360K drive on the PC with your tool :) As long as you are aware of the difficulties (ie: use a fresh disk), you can recreate 360k disks quite acceptably on 1.2M HD drives using IMD. Besides, if he has the Heathkit disk system - doesn't he already have a suitable drive - just has to cable it to the PC long enough to make the disks... Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Mar 15 13:50:56 2006 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:50:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive Message-ID: <200603151950.LAA30846@ca2h0430.amd.com> Hi Dave Yes, he could just run the disk cable over. I'd not thought about using the systems drive. A good idea! Dwight >From: "Dave Dunfield" > >> >For soft-sectored disks, you should be able to use my ImageDisk >> >program. If you have a raw-binary image, you can use the supplied >> >BIN2IMD utility to add format information (which you will have to >> >know and specify), and then the main IMD program to write the >> >image to a physical floppy disk. >> >> They just need to have a 360K drive on the PC with your tool :) > >As long as you are aware of the difficulties (ie: use a fresh disk), >you can recreate 360k disks quite acceptably on 1.2M HD drives >using IMD. > >Besides, if he has the Heathkit disk system - doesn't he already >have a suitable drive - just has to cable it to the PC long enough to >make the disks... > >Dave > >-- >dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield >dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com >com Collector of vintage computing equipment: > http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From robin.england at dial.pipex.com Wed Mar 15 14:28:01 2006 From: robin.england at dial.pipex.com (Robin England) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:28:01 -0000 Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive References: <200603151950.LAA30846@ca2h0430.amd.com> Message-ID: <00c401c6486e$f4e1d0c0$047ba8c0@HOME01> Hello Dwight When using your H89TRANS program does the serial cable need the hardware handshaking lines connected or will it work with just RX,TX and GND? Sorry if this has been answered elsewhere, but upon checking your instructions you only mention it having to be a 1:1 cable. Also, please can you explain which of the serial ports on the serial card (in a H/Z89) is usually the "LP" port - I assume this stands for Line Printer but on my machines this is not labelled as such (just two DCE ports and one DTE). Thanks Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dwight Elvey" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 7:50 PM Subject: Re: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive > Hi Dave > Yes, he could just run the disk cable over. I'd > not thought about using the systems drive. A good idea! > Dwight > > >From: "Dave Dunfield" > > > >> >For soft-sectored disks, you should be able to use my ImageDisk > >> >program. If you have a raw-binary image, you can use the supplied > >> >BIN2IMD utility to add format information (which you will have to > >> >know and specify), and then the main IMD program to write the > >> >image to a physical floppy disk. > >> > >> They just need to have a 360K drive on the PC with your tool :) > > > >As long as you are aware of the difficulties (ie: use a fresh disk), > >you can recreate 360k disks quite acceptably on 1.2M HD drives > >using IMD. > > > >Besides, if he has the Heathkit disk system - doesn't he already > >have a suitable drive - just has to cable it to the PC long enough to > >make the disks... > > > >Dave > > > >-- > >dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield > >dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com > >com Collector of vintage computing equipment: > > http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html > > > >-- > >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From robin.england at dial.pipex.com Wed Mar 15 14:33:10 2006 From: robin.england at dial.pipex.com (Robin England) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:33:10 -0000 Subject: Fw: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive Message-ID: <00e301c6486f$ad607f70$047ba8c0@HOME01> Sorry - am being stupid. Have just looked at the schematic I have, it includes the serial expansion card and clearly shows the Line Printer port as being P603 on the card. Would still like to know about the RTS/CTS and DTR/DSR though! Thanks. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin England" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 8:28 PM Subject: Re: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive > Hello Dwight > > When using your H89TRANS program does the serial cable need the hardware > handshaking lines connected or will it work with just RX,TX and GND? Sorry > if this has been answered elsewhere, but upon checking your instructions you > only mention it having to be a 1:1 cable. Also, please can you explain which > of the serial ports on the serial card (in a H/Z89) is usually the "LP" > port - I assume this stands for Line Printer but on my machines this is not > labelled as such (just two DCE ports and one DTE). > > Thanks > Robin > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dwight Elvey" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 7:50 PM > Subject: Re: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive > > > > Hi Dave > > Yes, he could just run the disk cable over. I'd > > not thought about using the systems drive. A good idea! > > Dwight > > > > >From: "Dave Dunfield" > > > > > >> >For soft-sectored disks, you should be able to use my ImageDisk > > >> >program. If you have a raw-binary image, you can use the supplied > > >> >BIN2IMD utility to add format information (which you will have to > > >> >know and specify), and then the main IMD program to write the > > >> >image to a physical floppy disk. > > >> > > >> They just need to have a 360K drive on the PC with your tool :) > > > > > >As long as you are aware of the difficulties (ie: use a fresh disk), > > >you can recreate 360k disks quite acceptably on 1.2M HD drives > > >using IMD. > > > > > >Besides, if he has the Heathkit disk system - doesn't he already > > >have a suitable drive - just has to cable it to the PC long enough to > > >make the disks... > > > > > >Dave > > > > > >-- > > >dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield > > >dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com > > >com Collector of vintage computing equipment: > > > http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html > > > > > >-- > > >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From bandit1921 at cox.net Wed Mar 15 14:08:46 2006 From: bandit1921 at cox.net (Joe Smith) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:08:46 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive In-Reply-To: <200603151950.LAA30846@ca2h0430.amd.com> References: <200603151950.LAA30846@ca2h0430.amd.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060315130817.0263d448@cox.net> By the same token there should be no reason to not just use a 1.44 disk. At 11:50 AM 3/15/2006 -0800, you wrote: >Hi Dave > Yes, he could just run the disk cable over. I'd >not thought about using the systems drive. A good idea! >Dwight > > >From: "Dave Dunfield" > > > >> >For soft-sectored disks, you should be able to use my ImageDisk > >> >program. If you have a raw-binary image, you can use the supplied > >> >BIN2IMD utility to add format information (which you will have to > >> >know and specify), and then the main IMD program to write the > >> >image to a physical floppy disk. > >> > >> They just need to have a 360K drive on the PC with your tool :) > > > >As long as you are aware of the difficulties (ie: use a fresh disk), > >you can recreate 360k disks quite acceptably on 1.2M HD drives > >using IMD. > > > >Besides, if he has the Heathkit disk system - doesn't he already > >have a suitable drive - just has to cable it to the PC long enough to > >make the disks... > > > >Dave > > > >-- > >dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield > >dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com > >com Collector of vintage computing equipment: > > http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html > > > >-- > >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List Joe Smith joebandit jtsdadinaz Conbuilder debugger /Programmer -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Mar 15 16:02:48 2006 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:02:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive Message-ID: <200603152202.OAA02300@ca2h0430.amd.com> Hi Robin I don't recall which jumper setup was correct for the serial but as I recall, things were just what was the original configuration that the manual had. I believe the center port is the printer port (on the card)( again, refer to the H89 manuals ). As I recall, if thing were made correctly, the cable has the opposite sex on each end ( the most common type of serial cable ). I don't use any of the software controlled serial handshake lines. Both the PC and the H89 do require the hardware handshake lines to be enabled. This can be done with a local loop back connection at each end of the cable for the handshake. This makes it simple because you'll only need three wires from connector to connector. I believe the manual describes a local loopback for handshake and data. You just need to wire the data. I do recommend that anyone working with these old machines get on of the combination jumper, LED status boxes for the serial cables. Although, I've not tried it, I think it should work with just 2, 3 and 7 connected from machine to machine. I foget the lines to jumper locally but you should be able to figure that. It has been a while since I ran this the last time but I just used a 1:1 cable and chose the LP port because it was correct from the original setup for the transfers. If you have any more problems, let me know and I'll dig my machine out and verify things. Dwight >From: "Robin England" > >Hello Dwight > >When using your H89TRANS program does the serial cable need the hardware >handshaking lines connected or will it work with just RX,TX and GND? Sorry >if this has been answered elsewhere, but upon checking your instructions you >only mention it having to be a 1:1 cable. Also, please can you explain which >of the serial ports on the serial card (in a H/Z89) is usually the "LP" >port - I assume this stands for Line Printer but on my machines this is not >labelled as such (just two DCE ports and one DTE). > >Thanks >Robin > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dwight Elvey" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 7:50 PM >Subject: Re: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive > > >> Hi Dave >> Yes, he could just run the disk cable over. I'd >> not thought about using the systems drive. A good idea! >> Dwight >> >> >From: "Dave Dunfield" >> > >> >> >For soft-sectored disks, you should be able to use my ImageDisk >> >> >program. If you have a raw-binary image, you can use the supplied >> >> >BIN2IMD utility to add format information (which you will have to >> >> >know and specify), and then the main IMD program to write the >> >> >image to a physical floppy disk. >> >> >> >> They just need to have a 360K drive on the PC with your tool :) >> > >> >As long as you are aware of the difficulties (ie: use a fresh disk), >> >you can recreate 360k disks quite acceptably on 1.2M HD drives >> >using IMD. >> > >> >Besides, if he has the Heathkit disk system - doesn't he already >> >have a suitable drive - just has to cable it to the PC long enough to >> >make the disks... >> > >> >Dave >> > >> >-- >> >dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield >> >dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com >> >com Collector of vintage computing equipment: >> > http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html >> > >> >-- >> >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> >> >> -- >> Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Mar 15 18:36:31 2006 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:36:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive Message-ID: <200603160036.QAA06460@ca2h0430.amd.com> Hi Do make sure and let me know how it works for you!!! Also, make sure and follow the steps. When I do it, I forget to do the first disk attempt after powering on. It just won't work because I depend on the bios to initialize the variables and the controller. I need to carefully read my own instructions. Later Dwight >From: "Dwight Elvey" > >Hi Robin > I don't recall which jumper setup was correct for the >serial but as I recall, things were just what was the > ---snip--- -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dave06a at dunfield.com Wed Mar 15 21:17:15 2006 From: dave06a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 22:17:15 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060315130817.0263d448@cox.net> References: <200603151950.LAA30846@ca2h0430.amd.com> Message-ID: <20060316031759.IOUL8983.orval.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> > By the same token there should be no reason to not just use a 1.44 disk. Unless you have the original Heath drives/enclosure and want to run the system in it's original state with those drives. Not familier with the Heathkit soft-sector controller, but it might not handle the 500kbps rate needed for 1.44mb - but you can run a 3.5" drive at 250kbps/720k (which should work with most any classic SD/DD system) just fine. Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Thu Mar 16 00:24:08 2006 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 00:24:08 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive References: <200603151950.LAA30846@ca2h0430.amd.com> <20060316031759.IOUL8983.orval.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> Message-ID: <44190488.ED163CC7@earthlink.net> > By the same token there should be no reason to not just use a > 1.44 [megabyte] disk. I've found that 1.4meg disks and drives have terrible reliability. I have scads of ancient 8" and 5.25" hard-sector disks and drives. They work well, considering their age. But all of my 1.44meg disks and drives are troublesome. For example, I downloaded a copy of "Damn Small Linux" (yes, that's their official name). It works great, but I wanted to install it on an older PC that can't boot from a CDROM. Ok; there is a proceedure for making a "boot floppy". But it requires a perfect 1.44meg disk, no bad sectors, no read retries at all. I'll be damned if I can find a single 1.44meg floppy and drive that can do it! Out of 3 drives and several dozen disks, every single one has at least one bad sector. I'll write the Linux boot image, and it gets to 80%, 90%, even 99% once, and then BANG "bad sector... aborted". -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From bandit1921 at cox.net Thu Mar 16 00:40:17 2006 From: bandit1921 at cox.net (Joe Smith) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 23:40:17 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive In-Reply-To: <44190488.ED163CC7@earthlink.net> References: <200603151950.LAA30846@ca2h0430.amd.com> <20060316031759.IOUL8983.orval.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> <44190488.ED163CC7@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060315233847.02472388@cox.net> I have found that in that case it usually means the drive is going bad. I have yet to have a problem making disks.Sometimes will find bad disks, or even a drive alignment problem,but these days since the drives are cheap,just throw it out and get a new one. At 12:24 AM 3/16/2006 -0600, you wrote: > > By the same token there should be no reason to not just use a > > 1.44 [megabyte] disk. > >I've found that 1.4meg disks and drives have terrible reliability. I >have scads of ancient 8" and 5.25" hard-sector disks and drives. They >work well, considering their age. But all of my 1.44meg disks and drives >are troublesome. > >For example, I downloaded a copy of "Damn Small Linux" (yes, that's >their official name). It works great, but I wanted to install it on an >older PC that can't boot from a CDROM. Ok; there is a proceedure for >making a "boot floppy". But it requires a perfect 1.44meg disk, no bad >sectors, no read retries at all. I'll be damned if I can find a single >1.44meg floppy and drive that can do it! Out of 3 drives and several >dozen disks, every single one has at least one bad sector. I'll write >the Linux boot image, and it gets to 80%, 90%, even 99% once, and then >BANG "bad sector... aborted". >-- >Ring the bells that still can ring >Forget the perfect offering >There is a crack in everything >That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen >-- >Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List Joe Smith joebandit jtsdadinaz Conbuilder debugger /Programmer -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From robin.england at dial.pipex.com Thu Mar 16 04:30:58 2006 From: robin.england at dial.pipex.com (Robin England) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 10:30:58 -0000 Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive References: <200603160036.QAA06460@ca2h0430.amd.com> Message-ID: <001c01c648e4$b9475140$03fea8c0@mpxp731gb> Hi Dwight Thanks for your comments. Well I've tried it but cannot get it to work. I've followed the instructions to the letter, but can you clarify a couple of points for me? First, when you initially turn on the H/Z89 and press B with no disk in the drive, I assume that it *is* necessary to press enter at this stage to actually start the boot attempt in order that the BIOS variables are initialised? Secondly, what should the DOS utility H89TRANS respond with after you've pressed L and it has successfully sent the loader (e.g. should the command prompt re-appear?). I'm finding that when I start H89TRANS and select the correct COM port (COM1) I get the command menu. Then I press L (obviously with cable connected and H/Z89 running the loader code) and it just sits there. As the loader seems to be only about 800 bytes I'd expect it to complete fairly quickly at 9600 baud, but it does nothing. I can exit the DOS program with ESC, so the DOS PC hasn't hung. I'm pretty sure that the problem is not with the RS232 side of things (cable etc). If I connect the internal serial cable (brown molex conn) to the terminal board instead of the serial card, I can happily send characters from the DOS PC (using Procomm) and receive them from the Z/89 keyboard, which suggests all is OK there. If I keep this setup and run your H89TRANS on the DOS PC, upon pressing L the loader is clearly sent because I can see it dumped to the H/Z89 screen. So, I believe that the problem I have is related to the internal H/Z89 serial configuration. On my serial card, the LP port is labelled on the silkscreen of the PCB as being the topmost connector (when viewed with the card as mounted normally). However I have tried both the other serial ports without success. I have also looped the CTS/RTS DSR/DTR handshaking lines at the Z/89 connector just in case the BIOS serial routines require the 8250 to use these. The serial card itself only has jumpers for IRQ setting. In the case of both my machines, the IRQ setting is OFF for all three 8250s. I'm not sure what other jumper / switch settings may be important? As far as I can tell, the DIP switch on the logic board is concerned only with the serial I/O between terminal board and logic board. Also, is it possible that your code will not work on certain BIOS versions? I'm not sure but I think I've got MTR-90 on this machine (it supports the (V)iew function). Have you any suggestions or perhaps some code that will dump input from the LP serial channel to the H/Z89 screen as a test? I will look at writing this myself if not, however my time with these machines has been more focussed on restoring the hardware itself and not the programming yet! Regards Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dwight Elvey" To: Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 12:36 AM Subject: Re: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive > Hi > Do make sure and let me know how it works for you!!! > Also, make sure and follow the steps. When I do it, > I forget to do the first disk attempt after powering on. > It just won't work because I depend on the bios to > initialize the variables and the controller. I need > to carefully read my own instructions. > Later > Dwight > > > >From: "Dwight Elvey" > > > >Hi Robin > > I don't recall which jumper setup was correct for the > >serial but as I recall, things were just what was the > > > ---snip--- > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From wm65805 at hotmail.com Wed Mar 15 21:15:15 2006 From: wm65805 at hotmail.com (bill malcolm) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 21:15:15 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] H-89 bus pin out Help --- Thanks for the HELP References: <44173A2A.A55C7923@earthlink.net> <44178B67.F3AFF320@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:34:02 +0000 Thanks -- Again. bill .. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Hart" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 9:35 PM Subject: Re: [sebhc] H-89 bus pin out Help > bill malcolm wrote: > > Thanks for the info: Do you have exact pin out for the 25 pins? > > Sure. Here they are. D0-D7 are the data bus, and A0-A15 are the address > bus. The control lines are active high, unless I put a slash before them > (i.e. /WAIT means wait when low). > > H89 Memory expansion connectors (left side of board) > --------------------------------------------------- > P501, P502, P503 1 = gnd > 2 = D0 > 3 = D1 > 4 = D2 > 5 = D3 > 6 = D4 > 7 = D5 > 8 = D6 > 9 = D7 > 10 = gnd > > P507, P508, P509 1 = +5v > 2 = gnd > 3 = A0 > 4 = A1 > 5 = A2 > 6 = A3 > 7 = A4 > 8 = A5 > 9 = A6 > 10 = A7 > 11 = A8 > 12 = A9 > 13 = A10 > 14 = A11 > 15 = A12 > 16 = MEM 0 (gen.pur.port, bit 4) > 17 = MEM 1 (gen.pur.port, bit 2) > 18 = /RD5 (decoded Read address strobe) > 19 = /RD6 (decoded Read address strobe) > 20 = /RD7 (decoded Read address strobe) > 21 = +12v > 22 = -12v > 23 = +5v > 24 = +12v > 25 = gnd > > H89 I/O expansion connectors (right side of board) > ------------------------------------------------- > P504, P505, P506 1 = gnd > 2 = D0 > 3 = D1 > 4 = D2 > 5 = D3 > 6 = D4 > 7 = D5 > 8 = D6 > 9 = D7 > 10 = gnd > > P510, P511 1 = +5v > 2 = gnd > 3 = A0 > 4 = A1 > 5 = A2 > 6 = /BRD (buffered Read) > 7 = /BWR (buffered Write) > 8 = /WAIT > 9 = /IO SER.0 (serial I/O select, port#0) > 10 = /IO SER.1 (serial I/O select, port#1) > 11 = /IO LP (serial I/O select, line printer) > 12 = /IO CASS (serial I/O select, cass.tape) > 13 = 2.048 MHz clock > 14 = 1.8432 MHz clock > 15 = /RESET > 16 = I/O.0 (gen.pur.port, bit 6) > 17 = I/O.1 (gen.pur.port, bit 7) > 18 = /INT3 (interrupt priority #3) > 19 = /INT4 (interrupt priority #4) > 20 = /INT5 (interrupt priority #5) > 21 = +12v > 22 = -12v > 23 = +5v > 24 = +12v > 25 = gnd > > P512 same as P510, P511 except for: > 11 = /IO FLPY (hard-sector controller select) > 12 = FMWEH (Floppy Memory Write Enable High) > -- > Ring the bells that still can ring > Forget the perfect offering > There is a crack in everything > That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen > -- > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From wm65805 at hotmail.com Wed Mar 15 21:23:20 2006 From: wm65805 at hotmail.com (bill malcolm) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 21:23:20 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] See Ebay Heathkit H8 ect ... closing price Message-ID: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:34:03 +0000 http://cm.ebay.com/cm/ck/1065-29399-2357-0?uid=7212479&site=0&ver=EOIBUA080805&lk=ItemDescription&Item=8775475005 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paulpenn at knology.net Thu Mar 16 10:24:55 2006 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul A. Pennington) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:24:55 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive References: <200603151950.LAA30846@ca2h0430.amd.com> <20060316031759.IOUL8983.orval.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> <44190488.ED163CC7@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <003301c64916$2a306280$6401a8c0@A31PAUL> Lee; > I've found that 1.4meg disks and drives have terrible reliability... There's a lot of junk out there in 3.5" diskette drives. Pick up a TEAC brand drive and quit worrying. I sold thousands of these back when I was building clones in my business and almost never had a problem with them. If you can find the model with both 3.5" and 5.25" drives in a half-height form snap it up. Very convenient. Paul Pennington -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com Thu Mar 16 10:34:17 2006 From: RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com (West, Ronald S.) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:34:17 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] See Ebay Heathkit H8 ect ... closing price Message-ID: <9CE060225CD128408F0B549B0A6B26BC01ED0BE0@0015-its-exmb01.us.saic.com> Did you see his other auctions? He has an UNBUILT H8 in the box for sale also. Ron -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of bill malcolm Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 10:23 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: [sebhc] See Ebay Heathkit H8 ect ... closing price http://cm.ebay.com/cm/ck/1065-29399-2357-0?uid=7212479 &site=0&ver=EOIBUA080805&lk=ItemDescription&Item=8775475005 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Mar 16 12:15:09 2006 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 10:15:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive Message-ID: <200603161815.KAA27268@ca2h0430.amd.com> Hi I'm looking for a mini one with 26 flex w connector on it. I know Teac made some of these but I don't know the model numbers. I have a lap top with a NEC drive and I've tried several others that were removed from lap tops. All have issue ( different or I'd suspect the laptop ). One even works fine as long as one reads and writes on a disk formatted on that drive. The disk doesn't work on other drives. Yes, it has an alignment problem. The only thing is that there is no normal alignment adjustment and I don't have either an analog or digital alignment disk :( A search on the web shows them at $80. Dwight >From: "Paul A. Pennington" > > Lee; > > > I've found that 1.4meg disks and drives have terrible reliability... > > There's a lot of junk out there in 3.5" diskette drives. Pick up a TEAC >brand drive and quit worrying. I sold thousands of these back when I was >building clones in my business and almost never had a problem with them. If >you can find the model with both 3.5" and 5.25" drives in a half-height form >snap it up. Very convenient. > > Paul Pennington > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Thu Mar 16 15:00:32 2006 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:00:32 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive References: <200603161815.KAA27268@ca2h0430.amd.com> Message-ID: <4419D1F0.F86C8927@earthlink.net> Paul A. Pennington wrote: >> There's a lot of junk out there in 3.5" diskette drives. Pick up a >> TEAC brand drive and quit worrying. I sold thousands of these back >> when I was building clones in my business and almost never had a >> problem with them. Dwight Elvey wrote: > I know Teac made some of these but I don't know the model numbers. > I have a lap top with a NEC drive and I've tried several others that > were removed from lap tops. All have issues (different ones, or I'd > suspect the laptop). I have the same situation. I have seven 3.5" 1.44meg floppy drives in my computers, and they are all sorts of brands; Sony, Mitsumi, NEC, and others I don't recall. All of them make read/write errors, no matter what disks I use in them (and I probably have 100 or more disks). None of them are Teac. The only Teacs I've seen are *many* years old. Maybe Teacs are better, but I don't have any to try. My impression is that floppies and floppy drives have degenerated so far in quality that they are essentially junk that *looks* like a disk, but don't actually work any more. They barely work when new, and certainly can't be depended on to work as they age. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Thu Mar 16 15:26:44 2006 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:26:44 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Re: H-89 bus pin out Help References: <20060216171351.91871.qmail@web53710.mail.yahoo.com> <704e82240603141040q1227a9e7j4e96967b380e3182@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4419D814.7887F677@earthlink.net> Mark Garlanger wrote: > > For SCSI, Lee Hart has stated before that the H-67 card and drives > were a precursor to SCSI, and it should be straight forward to get one > of those to work with a SCSI drive. I have one of the H-67 controllers > but have not yet tried to get it to work with SCSI. You may ask Lee to > see if he has additional H-67 controllers that he would be willing to > sell. Yes, I have a couple H89-67 cards and manuals. They do implement the original SCSI bus (called SASI back then), but Heath used a 40-pin connector instead of the standard 50-pin. They just split the ribbon cable, removed 10 consecutive wires that were unused, and shifted the rest in 10 positions. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Mar 16 19:20:46 2006 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:20:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive Message-ID: <200603170120.RAA06958@ca2h0430.amd.com> >From: "Robin England" > >Hi Dwight > >Thanks for your comments. Well I've tried it but cannot get it to work. I've >followed the instructions to the letter, but can you clarify a couple of >points for me? First, when you initially turn on the H/Z89 and press B with >no disk in the drive, I assume that it *is* necessary to press enter at this >stage to actually start the boot attempt in order that the BIOS variables >are initialised? Secondly, what should the DOS utility H89TRANS respond with >after you've pressed L and it has successfully sent the loader (e.g. should >the command prompt re-appear?). I assume that after doing the B ( and yes, on some machines you need the return. I don't think it is need on the old H89's ) you then enter the 50 or so bytes from the monitor and started that program? Note that you need to use the reset button and not cycle the power to restart after the B command ( I had another fellow do this. See my note at the end of the post. I took forever for me to get him to tell me what he was doing. ). > >I'm finding that when I start H89TRANS and select the correct COM port >(COM1) I get the command menu. Then I press L (obviously with cable >connected and H/Z89 running the loader code) and it just sits there. As the >loader seems to be only about 800 bytes I'd expect it to complete fairly >quickly at 9600 baud, but it does nothing. I can exit the DOS program with >ESC, so the DOS PC hasn't hung. It shouldn't hang, it should return with the menu. ( 686 bytes to be exact or about 6 seconds ). I think you also need the H89LDR2.BIN file to be in the same directory you were in when you started H89TRANS. I think that error aborts back to DOS,though. > >I'm pretty sure that the problem is not with the RS232 side of things (cable >etc). If I connect the internal serial cable (brown molex conn) to the >terminal board instead of the serial card, I can happily send characters >from the DOS PC (using Procomm) and receive them from the Z/89 keyboard, >which suggests all is OK there. If I keep this setup and run your H89TRANS >on the DOS PC, upon pressing L the loader is clearly sent because I can see >it dumped to the H/Z89 screen. > >So, I believe that the problem I have is related to the internal H/Z89 >serial configuration. On my serial card, the LP port is labelled on the >silkscreen of the PCB as being the topmost connector (when viewed with the >card as mounted normally). However I have tried both the other serial ports >without success. I have also looped the CTS/RTS DSR/DTR handshaking lines at >the Z/89 connector just in case the BIOS serial routines require the 8250 to >use these. Then, I suspect that the top one is the right one but you may have to swap lines 2 and 3 or move the brown connector cable. As I recall, there are some jumpers to select this on the serial board but my memory is a little fuzzy here as to if that was the H8 or the H89 that had the jumpers to swap these lines. I do recall that the LP port had the 2 and 3 wires swapped relative to the normal serial port. Do you have a serial status light box? If not, you should have one. > >The serial card itself only has jumpers for IRQ setting. In the case of both >my machines, the IRQ setting is OFF for all three 8250s. I'm not sure what >other jumper / switch settings may be important? As far as I can tell, the >DIP switch on the logic board is concerned only with the serial I/O between >terminal board and logic board. I don't use interrupts so that is correct, IRQ off. I'll check these this weekend. > >Also, is it possible that your code will not work on certain BIOS versions? >I'm not sure but I think I've got MTR-90 on this machine (it supports the >(V)iew function). There was an issue with the motor timeout that another had with a Z90. He was able to get it to work after I patched the code so I suspect it should work with your code. The first part of the code doesn't use any of the ROM code so it is unlikely that this is an issue. It isn't until it is actually reading and writing a disk that it uses anything in the ROMs. > >Have you any suggestions or perhaps some code that will dump input from the >LP serial channel to the H/Z89 screen as a test? I will look at writing this >myself if not, however my time with these machines has been more focussed on >restoring the hardware itself and not the programming yet! Look to make sure that the 2 and 3 signal lines are both driven. Use the top connector if that says LP. I suspect that that is the correct port if the board says LP. I won't be able to check my hardware setup until this weekend and won't be at a computer on the web until Monday ( the place is in the mountains ). For the loader part, the boot strap you enter into the H89 just sets up the serial port and reads the bytes into memory. It writes the data starting at the high end of the code and then continues to write until it writes over the last byte of the loader. This causes the code to go forward to where there is some code that isn't position sensitive to reposition the actual code such that if there were any additional bytes ( up to 3 more or less bytes by 1 ) that the code was off, it'll put things in the right place. Once the code is moved, it will then flush any remaining '0' from the serial ( NOP's ) and wait for the PC to send the first real command. The command ( as I recall ) an illegal command. As I recall, the H89 should then respond with a '?'. If so, the PC believes that the main code has been loaded and is ready to run. Knowing this, you could setup your terminal program on the H89 and wait until you think the loader is done loading. You can then reply with a '?' character sent from the H89 to the PC. It should then bring the menu back. This will tell you that the serial connection is working both ways for the PC program. I don't think that the terminal program should echo for the first part as the code is load but you might try it both ways, with and without echo ). I'll try and look at my code on the PC tonight and see if I'm correct about the last handshake. I believe the assembly source code is in the release for the part that is transferred to the H89 from the PC as H89LDR2.ASM. After the code has been transferred, you can drop back to the monitor on the H89 and look to see what is in the location 043 141 (split octal) and on. This code should match what the assembly code would create at the location of MAININT in the assembly code. Bytes before that may not match exactly the posistion. I don't recall if the H89LDR2.BIN file is stored byte reverse order or if I just reverse send it on the fly from the PC. One other thing. When talking to others to trouble shoot, I find that they tend leave out important details about what they did( similar to me not having the 'CR' after the B ). In order to make sure I know just what you've done could you give me a complete step by step report of what you did? Please be complete or it will be a waste of both our time. Include an estimate of the delay in time between each step. This may seem trivial to you but otherwise I'm working blind. This should give you enough to get things get started. Dwight > >Regards >Robin > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dwight Elvey" >To: >Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 12:36 AM >Subject: Re: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive > > >> Hi >> Do make sure and let me know how it works for you!!! >> Also, make sure and follow the steps. When I do it, >> I forget to do the first disk attempt after powering on. >> It just won't work because I depend on the bios to >> initialize the variables and the controller. I need >> to carefully read my own instructions. >> Later >> Dwight >> >> >> >From: "Dwight Elvey" >> > >> >Hi Robin >> > I don't recall which jumper setup was correct for the >> >serial but as I recall, things were just what was the >> > >> ---snip--- >> >> -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Thu Mar 16 22:46:45 2006 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:46:45 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive References: <200603170120.RAA06958@ca2h0430.amd.com> Message-ID: <441A3F35.17E319A8@earthlink.net> Dwight Elvey wrote: > I assume that after doing the B (and yes, on some machines you need > the return. I don't think it is need on the old H89's)... All H89 monitor ROMs (MTR-88, MTR-89, and MTR-90) require the RETURN key after the B command. That's because you can type B, B0, B1, or B2 before hitting RETURN to boot from the default, 1st, 2nd, or 3rd disk drive on the first disk controller board; or BS, BS0, BS1, or BS2 to boot from the default, first, second, or third drive on the second disk controller board. In other words, you can tell it to boot from any disk drive connected to either of two disk controller boards. Pretty handy at times! The DIP switch determines the default disk controller if you just want to type "B" and RETURN. Or, you can set the DIP switch for "autoboot" and it will boot from the first drive on the first controller without typing any command. Heath did not recommend this option, because the H89 can momentarily *WRITE* to a disk left in a drive when you turn off the power! -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From robin.england at dial.pipex.com Fri Mar 17 10:45:29 2006 From: robin.england at dial.pipex.com (Robin England) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:45:29 -0000 Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive References: <200603170120.RAA06958@ca2h0430.amd.com> Message-ID: <00ae01c649e2$3401fd60$03fea8c0@mpxp731gb> Dwight, many thanks for your suggestions. The one about the TX/RX lines being swapped on the header to the serial card is an interesting one. I have got an RS232 light box somewhere, so I'll dig it out and have a look. Incidentally yes I was pressing B with return, then shift-reset and then entering and starting the 50 or so bytes of boot code from location 43000 and the DOS program was not responding with the command menu or an error, so I guess it never got a ? back from the H89. I'll try a few things out and will let you know how I get on. Hope your weekend in the mountains goes well, cheers Robin. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dwight Elvey" To: Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 1:20 AM Subject: Re: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive > >From: "Robin England" > > > >Hi Dwight > > > >Thanks for your comments. Well I've tried it but cannot get it to work. I've > >followed the instructions to the letter, but can you clarify a couple of > >points for me? First, when you initially turn on the H/Z89 and press B with > >no disk in the drive, I assume that it *is* necessary to press enter at this > >stage to actually start the boot attempt in order that the BIOS variables > >are initialised? Secondly, what should the DOS utility H89TRANS respond with > >after you've pressed L and it has successfully sent the loader (e.g. should > >the command prompt re-appear?). > > I assume that after doing the B ( and yes, on some machines you need > the return. I don't think it is need on the old H89's ) you then > enter the 50 or so bytes from the monitor and started that program? > Note that you need to use the reset button and not cycle the power > to restart after the B command ( I had another fellow do this. > See my note at the end of the post. I took forever for me to > get him to tell me what he was doing. ). > > > > >I'm finding that when I start H89TRANS and select the correct COM port > >(COM1) I get the command menu. Then I press L (obviously with cable > >connected and H/Z89 running the loader code) and it just sits there. As the > >loader seems to be only about 800 bytes I'd expect it to complete fairly > >quickly at 9600 baud, but it does nothing. I can exit the DOS program with > >ESC, so the DOS PC hasn't hung. > > It shouldn't hang, it should return with the menu. ( 686 bytes to be exact > or about 6 seconds ). I think you also need the H89LDR2.BIN file > to be in the same directory you were in when you started H89TRANS. > I think that error aborts back to DOS,though. > > > > >I'm pretty sure that the problem is not with the RS232 side of things (cable > >etc). If I connect the internal serial cable (brown molex conn) to the > >terminal board instead of the serial card, I can happily send characters > >from the DOS PC (using Procomm) and receive them from the Z/89 keyboard, > >which suggests all is OK there. If I keep this setup and run your H89TRANS > >on the DOS PC, upon pressing L the loader is clearly sent because I can see > >it dumped to the H/Z89 screen. > > > >So, I believe that the problem I have is related to the internal H/Z89 > >serial configuration. On my serial card, the LP port is labelled on the > >silkscreen of the PCB as being the topmost connector (when viewed with the > >card as mounted normally). However I have tried both the other serial ports > >without success. I have also looped the CTS/RTS DSR/DTR handshaking lines at > >the Z/89 connector just in case the BIOS serial routines require the 8250 to > >use these. > > Then, I suspect that the top one is the right one but you may > have to swap lines 2 and 3 or move the brown connector cable. > As I recall, there are some jumpers to select this on the serial > board but my memory is a little fuzzy here as to if that was > the H8 or the H89 that had the jumpers to swap these lines. > I do recall that the LP port had the 2 and 3 wires swapped > relative to the normal serial port. Do you have a serial status > light box? If not, you should have one. > > > > >The serial card itself only has jumpers for IRQ setting. In the case of both > >my machines, the IRQ setting is OFF for all three 8250s. I'm not sure what > >other jumper / switch settings may be important? As far as I can tell, the > >DIP switch on the logic board is concerned only with the serial I/O between > >terminal board and logic board. > > I don't use interrupts so that is correct, IRQ off. I'll check these > this weekend. > > > > >Also, is it possible that your code will not work on certain BIOS versions? > >I'm not sure but I think I've got MTR-90 on this machine (it supports the > >(V)iew function). > > There was an issue with the motor timeout that another had > with a Z90. He was able to get it to work after I patched > the code so I suspect it should work with your code. The first > part of the code doesn't use any of the ROM code so it is > unlikely that this is an issue. It isn't until it is actually > reading and writing a disk that it uses anything in the ROMs. > > > > >Have you any suggestions or perhaps some code that will dump input from the > >LP serial channel to the H/Z89 screen as a test? I will look at writing this > >myself if not, however my time with these machines has been more focussed on > >restoring the hardware itself and not the programming yet! > > Look to make sure that the 2 and 3 signal lines are both driven. > Use the top connector if that says LP. I suspect that that is the > correct port if the board says LP. I won't be able to check my hardware > setup until this weekend and won't be at a computer on the web > until Monday ( the place is in the mountains ). > > For the loader part, the boot strap you enter into the H89 just > sets up the serial port and reads the bytes into memory. It writes > the data starting at the high end of the code and then continues > to write until it writes over the last byte of the loader. This > causes the code to go forward to where there is some code that isn't > position sensitive to reposition the actual code such that if there > were any additional bytes ( up to 3 more or less bytes by 1 ) that the > code was off, it'll put things in the right place. > Once the code is moved, it will then flush any remaining '0' > from the serial ( NOP's ) and wait for the PC to send the first > real command. The command ( as I recall ) an illegal command. > As I recall, the H89 should then respond with a '?'. If so, > the PC believes that the main code has been loaded and is > ready to run. > Knowing this, you could setup your terminal program on the H89 > and wait until you think the loader is done loading. You can then > reply with a '?' character sent from the H89 to the PC. It > should then bring the menu back. This will tell you that the > serial connection is working both ways for the PC program. > I don't think that the terminal program should echo for > the first part as the code is load but you might try it > both ways, with and without echo ). > I'll try and look at my code on the PC tonight and see if > I'm correct about the last handshake. I believe the assembly > source code is in the release for the part that is transferred > to the H89 from the PC as H89LDR2.ASM. After the code has been > transferred, you can drop back to the monitor on the H89 and look > to see what is in the location 043 141 (split octal) and on. > This code should match what the assembly code would create > at the location of MAININT in the assembly code. Bytes before > that may not match exactly the posistion. > I don't recall if the H89LDR2.BIN file is stored byte reverse > order or if I just reverse send it on the fly from the PC. > One other thing. When talking to others to trouble shoot, I > find that they tend leave out important details about what > they did( similar to me not having the 'CR' after the B ). In > order to make sure I know just what you've done could you > give me a complete step by step report of what you did? > Please be complete or it will be a waste of both our time. > Include an estimate of the delay in time between each step. > This may seem trivial to you but otherwise I'm working blind. > This should give you enough to get things get started. > Dwight > > > > >Regards > >Robin > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Dwight Elvey" > >To: > >Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 12:36 AM > >Subject: Re: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive > > > > > >> Hi > >> Do make sure and let me know how it works for you!!! > >> Also, make sure and follow the steps. When I do it, > >> I forget to do the first disk attempt after powering on. > >> It just won't work because I depend on the bios to > >> initialize the variables and the controller. I need > >> to carefully read my own instructions. > >> Later > >> Dwight > >> > >> > >> >From: "Dwight Elvey" > >> > > >> >Hi Robin > >> > I don't recall which jumper setup was correct for the > >> >serial but as I recall, things were just what was the > >> > > >> ---snip--- > >> > >> > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Mar 17 12:53:17 2006 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 10:53:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive Message-ID: <200603171853.KAA28258@ca2h0430.amd.com> Hi Robin I was looking at the code on the machine I used to write the code and my video went flaky. I did look at one thing before it went bad on me and that was that in the directory that I called the release, there was may have been an error in the handshake for the ? at the end of the loader. I didn't get a chance to confirm this or look for the location to patch the value. If somehow, I used this source to create the last version I released, it can be worked around. Also, you can use a terminal program to check things on the PC end. After the load of the main program to the H89, it will respond with a ? for any character that isn't in the command jump table( as I mentioned before ). Try exiting the program on the PC and then using a terminal program, send it a character like the letter A. If the load was successful, it will respond with the ?. If this is working, just restart the transfer program and don't use the L command because it is not longer needed. If it didn't load, you should look at the values in the H89's memory as I mentioned before. I was intending to get a listing file for the program on the H89 but the video failed before I could write to the floppy :( If you have an 8080 assembler handy, you can create a listing of the part that is suppose to go to the H89. One can do such things as check the first location that the program is suppose to write the data into to see if it is even starting. After the load, it should over write data in memory from 046-133 ( split octal ) down to 043-051 ( split octal ). If you look at that last location and see something other than the PCHL instruction, you know that it loaded something. If it is still PCHL, it didn't finish the load. If the first two locations at 046-133 and 046-132 are not over written, is didn't start the load. 046-133 could be over written because there may have been a character in the serial chip at the start but 046-132 should be a valid character. Two other things. Make sure it is BOOTSTRP.OCL that you enter and not BOTSTRP8.OCL ( for a H8 ). Also, you need to boot DOS on the PC, not just a DOS window in windows. As Lee states, you always need a return after the B. This was an omission on my part( it is really hard to state exact sequences but for me to help in debugging I need exact sequences. ). Dwight >From: "Robin England" > >Dwight, many thanks for your suggestions. The one about the TX/RX lines >being swapped on the header to the serial card is an interesting one. I have >got an RS232 light box somewhere, so I'll dig it out and have a look. >Incidentally yes I was pressing B with return, then shift-reset and then >entering and starting the 50 or so bytes of boot code from location 43000 >and the DOS program was not responding with the command menu or an error, so >I guess it never got a ? back from the H89. > >I'll try a few things out and will let you know how I get on. Hope your >weekend in the mountains goes well, cheers Robin. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dwight Elvey" >To: >Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 1:20 AM >Subject: Re: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive > > >> >From: "Robin England" >> > >> >Hi Dwight >> > >> >Thanks for your comments. Well I've tried it but cannot get it to work. >I've >> >followed the instructions to the letter, but can you clarify a couple of >> >points for me? First, when you initially turn on the H/Z89 and press B >with >> >no disk in the drive, I assume that it *is* necessary to press enter at >this >> >stage to actually start the boot attempt in order that the BIOS variables >> >are initialised? Secondly, what should the DOS utility H89TRANS respond >with >> >after you've pressed L and it has successfully sent the loader (e.g. >should >> >the command prompt re-appear?). >> >> I assume that after doing the B ( and yes, on some machines you need >> the return. I don't think it is need on the old H89's ) you then >> enter the 50 or so bytes from the monitor and started that program? >> Note that you need to use the reset button and not cycle the power >> to restart after the B command ( I had another fellow do this. >> See my note at the end of the post. I took forever for me to >> get him to tell me what he was doing. ). >> >> > >> >I'm finding that when I start H89TRANS and select the correct COM port >> >(COM1) I get the command menu. Then I press L (obviously with cable >> >connected and H/Z89 running the loader code) and it just sits there. As >the >> >loader seems to be only about 800 bytes I'd expect it to complete fairly >> >quickly at 9600 baud, but it does nothing. I can exit the DOS program >with >> >ESC, so the DOS PC hasn't hung. >> >> It shouldn't hang, it should return with the menu. ( 686 bytes to be exact >> or about 6 seconds ). I think you also need the H89LDR2.BIN file >> to be in the same directory you were in when you started H89TRANS. >> I think that error aborts back to DOS,though. >> >> > >> >I'm pretty sure that the problem is not with the RS232 side of things >(cable >> >etc). If I connect the internal serial cable (brown molex conn) to the >> >terminal board instead of the serial card, I can happily send characters >> >from the DOS PC (using Procomm) and receive them from the Z/89 keyboard, >> >which suggests all is OK there. If I keep this setup and run your >H89TRANS >> >on the DOS PC, upon pressing L the loader is clearly sent because I can >see >> >it dumped to the H/Z89 screen. >> > >> >So, I believe that the problem I have is related to the internal H/Z89 >> >serial configuration. On my serial card, the LP port is labelled on the >> >silkscreen of the PCB as being the topmost connector (when viewed with >the >> >card as mounted normally). However I have tried both the other serial >ports >> >without success. I have also looped the CTS/RTS DSR/DTR handshaking lines >at >> >the Z/89 connector just in case the BIOS serial routines require the 8250 >to >> >use these. >> >> Then, I suspect that the top one is the right one but you may >> have to swap lines 2 and 3 or move the brown connector cable. >> As I recall, there are some jumpers to select this on the serial >> board but my memory is a little fuzzy here as to if that was >> the H8 or the H89 that had the jumpers to swap these lines. >> I do recall that the LP port had the 2 and 3 wires swapped >> relative to the normal serial port. Do you have a serial status >> light box? If not, you should have one. >> >> > >> >The serial card itself only has jumpers for IRQ setting. In the case of >both >> >my machines, the IRQ setting is OFF for all three 8250s. I'm not sure >what >> >other jumper / switch settings may be important? As far as I can tell, >the >> >DIP switch on the logic board is concerned only with the serial I/O >between >> >terminal board and logic board. >> >> I don't use interrupts so that is correct, IRQ off. I'll check these >> this weekend. >> >> > >> >Also, is it possible that your code will not work on certain BIOS >versions? >> >I'm not sure but I think I've got MTR-90 on this machine (it supports the >> >(V)iew function). >> >> There was an issue with the motor timeout that another had >> with a Z90. He was able to get it to work after I patched >> the code so I suspect it should work with your code. The first >> part of the code doesn't use any of the ROM code so it is >> unlikely that this is an issue. It isn't until it is actually >> reading and writing a disk that it uses anything in the ROMs. >> >> > >> >Have you any suggestions or perhaps some code that will dump input from >the >> >LP serial channel to the H/Z89 screen as a test? I will look at writing >this >> >myself if not, however my time with these machines has been more focussed >on >> >restoring the hardware itself and not the programming yet! >> >> Look to make sure that the 2 and 3 signal lines are both driven. >> Use the top connector if that says LP. I suspect that that is the >> correct port if the board says LP. I won't be able to check my hardware >> setup until this weekend and won't be at a computer on the web >> until Monday ( the place is in the mountains ). >> >> For the loader part, the boot strap you enter into the H89 just >> sets up the serial port and reads the bytes into memory. It writes >> the data starting at the high end of the code and then continues >> to write until it writes over the last byte of the loader. This >> causes the code to go forward to where there is some code that isn't >> position sensitive to reposition the actual code such that if there >> were any additional bytes ( up to 3 more or less bytes by 1 ) that the >> code was off, it'll put things in the right place. >> Once the code is moved, it will then flush any remaining '0' >> from the serial ( NOP's ) and wait for the PC to send the first >> real command. The command ( as I recall ) an illegal command. >> As I recall, the H89 should then respond with a '?'. If so, >> the PC believes that the main code has been loaded and is >> ready to run. >> Knowing this, you could setup your terminal program on the H89 >> and wait until you think the loader is done loading. You can then >> reply with a '?' character sent from the H89 to the PC. It >> should then bring the menu back. This will tell you that the >> serial connection is working both ways for the PC program. >> I don't think that the terminal program should echo for >> the first part as the code is load but you might try it >> both ways, with and without echo ). >> I'll try and look at my code on the PC tonight and see if >> I'm correct about the last handshake. I believe the assembly >> source code is in the release for the part that is transferred >> to the H89 from the PC as H89LDR2.ASM. After the code has been >> transferred, you can drop back to the monitor on the H89 and look >> to see what is in the location 043 141 (split octal) and on. >> This code should match what the assembly code would create >> at the location of MAININT in the assembly code. Bytes before >> that may not match exactly the posistion. >> I don't recall if the H89LDR2.BIN file is stored byte reverse >> order or if I just reverse send it on the fly from the PC. >> One other thing. When talking to others to trouble shoot, I >> find that they tend leave out important details about what >> they did( similar to me not having the 'CR' after the B ). In >> order to make sure I know just what you've done could you >> give me a complete step by step report of what you did? >> Please be complete or it will be a waste of both our time. >> Include an estimate of the delay in time between each step. >> This may seem trivial to you but otherwise I'm working blind. >> This should give you enough to get things get started. >> Dwight >> >> > >> >Regards >> >Robin >> > >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >From: "Dwight Elvey" >> >To: >> >Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 12:36 AM >> >Subject: Re: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive >> > >> > >> >> Hi >> >> Do make sure and let me know how it works for you!!! >> >> Also, make sure and follow the steps. When I do it, >> >> I forget to do the first disk attempt after powering on. >> >> It just won't work because I depend on the bios to >> >> initialize the variables and the controller. I need >> >> to carefully read my own instructions. >> >> Later >> >> Dwight >> >> >> >> >> >> >From: "Dwight Elvey" >> >> > >> >> >Hi Robin >> >> > I don't recall which jumper setup was correct for the >> >> >serial but as I recall, things were just what was the >> >> > >> >> ---snip--- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From wm65805 at hotmail.com Fri Mar 17 14:13:25 2006 From: wm65805 at hotmail.com (bill malcolm) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 14:13:25 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Thinking building USB for H-89 -- ? References: <200603161815.KAA27268@ca2h0430.amd.com> <4419D1F0.F86C8927@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:04:14 +0000 Hi -- All - I have been thinking of building USB for various old 8 bit machines. It is much easer than you might think. There is available a Rom like unit that can be plugged into a Rom/Prom Socket. The cost is only about $25.00. Any interest? bill .. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From wm65805 at hotmail.com Fri Mar 17 15:13:01 2006 From: wm65805 at hotmail.com (bill malcolm) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:13:01 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Thinking building USB for H-89 -- ? Update .. References: <200603161815.KAA27268@ca2h0430.amd.com> <4419D1F0.F86C8927@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:18:04 +0000 See this site http://www.dlpdesign.com/ -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Fri Mar 17 15:24:35 2006 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:24:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sebhc] Thinking building USB for H-89 -- ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060317212435.78422.qmail@web53713.mail.yahoo.com> Sounds slick - there is, of course, the minor issue of software...but it would definitely be cool if you could make it work. Jack bill malcolm wrote: Hi -- All - I have been thinking of building USB for various old 8 bit machines. It is much easer than you might think. There is available a Rom like unit that can be plugged into a Rom/Prom Socket. The cost is only about $25.00. Any interest? bill .. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garlanger at gmail.com Fri Mar 17 15:25:12 2006 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:25:12 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Thinking building USB for H-89 -- ? In-Reply-To: References: <200603161815.KAA27268@ca2h0430.amd.com> <4419D1F0.F86C8927@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <704e82240603171325x20c2094fre34e67719a3a6a90@mail.gmail.com> That would be interesting, but what type of devices are you planning on connect? Will the H89 even be able to support the USB 1.1 speeds of 12 Mbps? If the USB will be able to support a flash drive and have it act as a harddrive, I would be extremely interested in getting one. Even the smallest flash drives are 64 MB - more than 5x the size of the H67. And it would have solid-state reliability instead of relying on mechanical parts that have limited life. I wouldn't be able to help much on the hardware side, but should be able to help on the software side. Mark On 3/17/06, bill malcolm wrote: > Hi -- All - I have been thinking of building USB for various old 8 bit > machines. > It is much easer than you might think. There is available a Rom like unit > that can be plugged into a Rom/Prom Socket. The cost is only about $25.00. > > Any interest? > bill .. > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Fri Mar 17 15:29:32 2006 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:29:32 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Thinking building USB for H-89 -- ? References: <200603161815.KAA27268@ca2h0430.amd.com> <4419D1F0.F86C8927@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <441B2A3C.BA6BCE36@earthlink.net> bill malcolm wrote: > > Hi -- All - I have been thinking of building USB for various old 8 bit > machines. > It is much easer than you might think. There is available a Rom like unit > that can be plugged into a Rom/Prom Socket. The cost is only about $25.00. > > Any interest? What would you do with it? What sorts of USB devices would have any meaning if connected to an H89 or H8? -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From bill at armchairarcade.com Fri Mar 17 15:28:02 2006 From: bill at armchairarcade.com (Bill Loguidice) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:28:02 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Thinking building USB for H-89 -- ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001101c64a09$ada4af10$f6b4400a@EAST.VIS.COM> I know I'd be interested in USB on various classic systems, like the H89, but it would need a good justification for usage and solid supporting applications in my opinion. For instance, there is a great USB interface already available for the Atari 8-bit computers from AtariMax, but it basically only works with keyboards and controllers right now, which is hardly anything that I personally could think of needing on that particular platform. ====================================== Bill Loguidice, Co-Founder and Editor Armchair Arcade, Inc. (A PC Magazine Top 100 Website, 2005) ====================================== http://www.armchairarcade.com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Mar 17 16:37:04 2006 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 14:37:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sebhc] Thinking building USB for H-89 -- ? Update .. Message-ID: <200603172237.OAA02247@ca2h0430.amd.com> >From: "bill malcolm" > >See this site >http://www.dlpdesign.com/ >-- Hi Bill I think there is general interest in a programmable USB interface to floppy drives. One that could handle all the various drives from 8 inch hard sectored to 2.88M mini floppies. Dwight -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Fri Mar 17 17:01:17 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:01:17 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Thinking building USB for H-89 -- ? In-Reply-To: <441B2A3C.BA6BCE36@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <00e001c64a16$b307b300$6501a8c0@barry> How about a hard drive? Think about it ... you can buy used 1 gigabyte laptop hard drives for $1 to $5 (they are too small to be useful in a laptop), and an external USB case for under $10. We are talking about $11 to $15 for a hard drive for an H89 (or, presumably an H8 or an S-100 system, since the host side should be easily adaptable to almost any 8080/Z-80 based system). -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 4:30 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] Thinking building USB for H-89 -- ? bill malcolm wrote: > > Hi -- All - I have been thinking of building USB for various old 8 bit > machines. > It is much easer than you might think. There is available a Rom like unit > that can be plugged into a Rom/Prom Socket. The cost is only about $25.00. > > Any interest? What would you do with it? What sorts of USB devices would have any meaning if connected to an H89 or H8? -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Fri Mar 17 17:03:48 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:03:48 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Thinking building USB for H-89 -- ? Update .. In-Reply-To: <200603172237.OAA02247@ca2h0430.amd.com> Message-ID: <00e101c64a17$0d1b8b50$6501a8c0@barry> Now that is absolutely true, and I even want it for a PC. But the problem there is the interface to the floppy drive, not the interface to the host system. By the way, you want 8-inch soft sector, not hard sector. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Dwight Elvey Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 5:37 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] Thinking building USB for H-89 -- ? Update .. >From: "bill malcolm" > >See this site >http://www.dlpdesign.com/ >-- Hi Bill I think there is general interest in a programmable USB interface to floppy drives. One that could handle all the various drives from 8 inch hard sectored to 2.88M mini floppies. Dwight -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Fri Mar 17 17:18:09 2006 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 17:18:09 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Thinking building USB for H-89 -- ? In-Reply-To: <704e82240603171325x20c2094fre34e67719a3a6a90@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001c01c64a19$0e631490$176fa8c0@obie> I think cheap, reliable solid-state storage would make a lot of vintage computer users very happy! I've got a GIDE kit on the shelf to install (someday) into an H8 or H89 with the goal of IDE -> Compact Flash storage. A USB bit-banged serial emulation of a disk drive would probably be pretty slow but it might be useful. Right now, I'm happy with Eric's SVD but that means having a disk controller card and captive PC for primary storage. > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org > [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Mark Garlanger > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 3:25 PM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: Re: [sebhc] Thinking building USB for H-89 -- ? > > > That would be interesting, but what type of devices are you > planning on connect? Will the H89 even be able to support the > USB 1.1 speeds of 12 Mbps? If the USB will be able to support > a flash drive and have it act as a harddrive, I would be > extremely interested in getting one. Even the smallest flash > drives are 64 MB - more than 5x the size of the H67. And it > would have solid-state reliability instead of relying on > mechanical parts that have limited life. I wouldn't be able > to help much on the hardware side, but should be able to help > on the software side. > > Mark > > > On 3/17/06, bill malcolm wrote: > > Hi -- All - I have been thinking of building USB for various old 8 > > bit machines. It is much easer than you might think. There is > > available a Rom like unit that can be plugged into a > Rom/Prom Socket. > > The cost is only about $25.00. > > > > Any interest? > > bill .. > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.4/283 - Release > Date: 3/16/2006 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.4/283 - Release Date: 3/16/2006 -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Mar 17 17:24:07 2006 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:24:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sebhc] Thinking building USB for H-89 -- ? Update .. Message-ID: <200603172324.PAA03563@ca2h0430.amd.com> Hi Barry I'm just talking in general. I consider the hard sectored 8 inch to be the oldest to the newest. I consider 8 inch soft sectored to next between the two ranges ends. In any case, I do want 8 inch hard sectored. Dwight >From: "Barry Watzman" > >Now that is absolutely true, and I even want it for a PC. But the problem >there is the interface to the floppy drive, not the interface to the host >system. > >By the way, you want 8-inch soft sector, not hard sector. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >Dwight Elvey >Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 5:37 PM >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: Re: [sebhc] Thinking building USB for H-89 -- ? Update .. > >>From: "bill malcolm" >> >>See this site >>http://www.dlpdesign.com/ >>-- > >Hi Bill > I think there is general interest in a programmable >USB interface to floppy drives. One that could handle >all the various drives from 8 inch hard sectored to >2.88M mini floppies. >Dwight > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Fri Mar 17 18:04:21 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 19:04:21 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Thinking building USB for H-89 -- ? Update .. In-Reply-To: <200603172324.PAA03563@ca2h0430.amd.com> Message-ID: <00e601c64a1f$83cd28a0$6501a8c0@barry> There was very, very little 8" hard sector. In terms of microcomputer systems, I can only think of two .... Altair, and Processor Technology. All 8-inch CP/M systems were soft sector. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Dwight Elvey Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 6:24 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: RE: [sebhc] Thinking building USB for H-89 -- ? Update .. Hi Barry I'm just talking in general. I consider the hard sectored 8 inch to be the oldest to the newest. I consider 8 inch soft sectored to next between the two ranges ends. In any case, I do want 8 inch hard sectored. Dwight >From: "Barry Watzman" > >Now that is absolutely true, and I even want it for a PC. But the problem >there is the interface to the floppy drive, not the interface to the host >system. > >By the way, you want 8-inch soft sector, not hard sector. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >Dwight Elvey >Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 5:37 PM >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: Re: [sebhc] Thinking building USB for H-89 -- ? Update .. > >>From: "bill malcolm" >> >>See this site >>http://www.dlpdesign.com/ >>-- > >Hi Bill > I think there is general interest in a programmable >USB interface to floppy drives. One that could handle >all the various drives from 8 inch hard sectored to >2.88M mini floppies. >Dwight > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com Mon Mar 20 10:14:13 2006 From: RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com (West, Ronald S.) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:14:13 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] SVD. Message-ID: <9CE060225CD128408F0B549B0A6B26BC01ED0BED@0015-its-exmb01.us.saic.com> Jack, How is that SVD? I was looking at his website the other day and was thinking about building one of those. From the site it looks like this unit will emulate more than one floppy at a time. Is that correct? None of my floppy drives are worth a tinkers &(^#% now and seem to ruin any floppy I stick in there. The SVD might solve all my problems for me. Ron -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From kguenther6 at insightbb.com Mon Mar 20 12:03:48 2006 From: kguenther6 at insightbb.com (kguenther6 at insightbb.com) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:03:48 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] SVD. Message-ID: <032020061803.9186.441EEE8400090189000023E2219791336303010CD20D0D9B0809079C0207BFC09D0A089B020A9A0905@insightbb.com> I'll put in my 2 cents worth. I have the SVD and it works great. I haven't had any problems and it will emulate more than one floppy at a time. I used it to get a lot of the software on the SEBHC web site running on my H8. And I used it to backup the few floppies that I have for my H8. It also supports a lot of other old systems that I have but I've yet to try it on any of them. But I'll give it a good rating. Ken Guenther Old programmers never die... They just GOTO -------------- Original message ---------------------- > Ron wrote: > > Jack, > > How is that SVD? I was looking at his website the other day and was thinking > about building one of those. From the site it looks like this unit will > emulate more than one floppy at a time. Is that correct? > > None of my floppy drives are worth a tinkers &(^#% now and seem to ruin any > floppy I stick in there. The SVD might solve all my problems for me. > > Ron -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From sp11 at hotmail.com Mon Mar 20 12:52:17 2006 From: sp11 at hotmail.com (Steven Parker) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:52:17 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] archive additions In-Reply-To: <032020061803.9186.441EEE8400090189000023E2219791336303010CD20D0D9B0809079C0207BFC09D0A089B020A9A0905@insightbb.com> Message-ID: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:52:17 GMT Quite some time ago (before Katrina), I added some software to the archives but I'm not sure I announced it. So, just in case, the added software items are: Heath: 890-7 Microsoft BASIC Rev. 4.7 HUG: 885-1023 RTTY Disk H8 Only 885-1042 PILOT 885-1054 Small Bus Pkg II - 3 Disks 885-1060 Disk VII 885-1061 TMI Cassette to Disk H8 only 885-1064 Disk IX 885-1093 Dungeons and Dragons Game 885-1106 Morse-89 H8/H19 or H89 Softstuff: SF-9005 Inventory Tape: BUG8-6.H8T ISSUE # 02.06.00 CHASELED.H8T cute front panel game CLOCK.H8T front panel clock EXBASIC5.H8T ISSUE # 10.05.01 EXBASIC6.H8T ISSUE # 10.06.00 H8DERBY.H8T ISSUE # 27.00.00 H8ORBIT.H8T ISSUE # 25.00.00 HAMRABI.H8T ISSUE # 26.00.00 HASL8-6.H8T ISSUE # 04.06.00 MASTMIND.H8T Mastermind game TED8-6.H8T ISSUE # 03.06.00 Execpt for the tapes, everything is hard-sector disk images (h8d). -- Steven -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Mar 20 13:40:17 2006 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:40:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sebhc] archive additions Message-ID: <200603201940.LAA26365@ca2h0430.amd.com> Hi Steven What are "Small Bus Pkg II", "Disk VII" and "Disk IX" ? Dwight >From: "Steven Parker" > >Quite some time ago (before Katrina), I added some software to the archives >but I'm not sure I announced it. So, just in case, the added software items >are: > >Heath: > 890-7 Microsoft BASIC Rev. 4.7 > >HUG: > 885-1023 RTTY Disk H8 Only > 885-1042 PILOT > 885-1054 Small Bus Pkg II - 3 Disks > 885-1060 Disk VII > 885-1061 TMI Cassette to Disk H8 only > 885-1064 Disk IX > 885-1093 Dungeons and Dragons Game > 885-1106 Morse-89 H8/H19 or H89 > >Softstuff: > SF-9005 Inventory > >Tape: > BUG8-6.H8T ISSUE # 02.06.00 > CHASELED.H8T cute front panel game > CLOCK.H8T front panel clock > EXBASIC5.H8T ISSUE # 10.05.01 > EXBASIC6.H8T ISSUE # 10.06.00 > H8DERBY.H8T ISSUE # 27.00.00 > H8ORBIT.H8T ISSUE # 25.00.00 > HAMRABI.H8T ISSUE # 26.00.00 > HASL8-6.H8T ISSUE # 04.06.00 > MASTMIND.H8T Mastermind game > TED8-6.H8T ISSUE # 03.06.00 > >Execpt for the tapes, everything is hard-sector disk images (h8d). > >-- Steven > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From sp11 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 21 00:33:20 2006 From: sp11 at hotmail.com (Steven Parker) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:33:20 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] archive additions In-Reply-To: <200603201940.LAA26365@ca2h0430.amd.com> Message-ID: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:33:20 GMT Dwight asked: > What are "Small Bus Pkg II", "Disk VII" and "Disk IX" ? > > 885-1054 Small Bus Pkg II - 3 Disks This was HUG's 2nd small business package .. inventory, payroll, billing, sales charts, etc. All in BASIC. > > 885-1060 Disk VII > > 885-1064 Disk IX Two of HUG's "miscellaneous software" series. Disk VII has a baud rate changer, command script tool, volume renamer, file dump, etc. Executables and .ASM sources. Disk IX has a damaged file recovery tool, a print formatter, morse code sender, HDOS clock, etc. Also with sources. Some written by our own David Wallace. (and some revised by /AIWZ/). :-) -- Steven ("/AIWZ/") -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Tue Mar 21 07:32:01 2006 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:32:01 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] SVD. In-Reply-To: <9CE060225CD128408F0B549B0A6B26BC01ED0BED@0015-its-exmb01.us.saic.com> Message-ID: <000001c64ceb$d5cd87c0$176fa8c0@obie> > How is that SVD? I was looking at his website the other day > and was thinking about building one of those. From the site > it looks like this unit will emulate more than one floppy at > a time. Is that correct? > > None of my floppy drives are worth a tinkers &(^#% now and > seem to ruin any floppy I stick in there. The SVD might solve > all my problems for me. > > Ron Ron (and all) - The SVD is a great product! In its current configuration it will emulate two H8/H89 hard-sector floppies; I'm waiting for Eric to come out with "Son of SVD" with more RAM and the ability to emulate more/higher density disks. I used the SVD to create the original disk images in the SEBHC archives, basically trying to treat my original H8 disks as read-once sources. Since Eric includes a couple bootable images (both HDOS and CP/M) with the SVD, you can build a system without a working floppy - though of course you must have a working controller - and then work backwards with real drives and media to test your drives. Several other list members have used other methods to load and retrieve images, initally resulting in a couple different though convertible formats. Steven went through and converted everything in the archive to a common format and I think Eric has since modified his software to produce the same image format as everyone else. In addition, the SVD can also be used with several other vintage machines to load/emulate/create images so it really is useful (if anything vintage computing related can truly be given that description!). Jack -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.6/286 - Release Date: 3/20/2006 -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Tue Mar 21 07:39:07 2006 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:39:07 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] archive additions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c64cec$d3cfed90$176fa8c0@obie> Thanks Steven! > > Quite some time ago (before Katrina), I added some software > to the archives > but I'm not sure I announced it. So, just in case, the added > software items > are: > > HUG: > 885-1023 RTTY Disk H8 Only Is this Howard Nurse's program? If so, I've got the docs somewhere (with the HDOS source?) and can add it to the "to scan" list. ;>) Any of you hams out there running hard-copy RTTY the old fashioned way? No Katrina up here in Chicago but definitely some routine-shattering events over the last year. Jack KC9HVE -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.6/286 - Release Date: 3/20/2006 -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From sp11 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 21 09:08:55 2006 From: sp11 at hotmail.com (Steven Parker) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:08:55 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] RTTY program In-Reply-To: <000101c64cec$d3cfed90$176fa8c0@obie> Message-ID: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:08:55 GMT > > HUG: > > 885-1023 RTTY Disk H8 Only > >Is this Howard Nurse's program? Or perhaps derived from it. His name appears in only one module's comments. The full product title is "W6LLO Communications Processor" .. is that his call sign? -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Tue Mar 21 09:45:28 2006 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:45:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sebhc] RTTY program In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060321154528.30379.qmail@web53703.mail.yahoo.com> that's him Steven Parker wrote: > > HUG: > > 885-1023 RTTY Disk H8 Only > >Is this Howard Nurse's program? Or perhaps derived from it. His name appears in only one module's comments. The full product title is "W6LLO Communications Processor" .. is that his call sign? -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidwallace2000 at comcast.net Tue Mar 21 10:17:53 2006 From: davidwallace2000 at comcast.net (davidwallace2000 at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:17:53 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] archive additions Message-ID: <032120061617.9441.44202730000C4DB9000024E12206424613CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> Steve, is there a spec on the H8d format? If so, I could build a tool (C++ for Windows) that converts the disk image format used by my and Dave Shaw's emulators to/from this format. I could then supply that tool and a whole bunch of disk images that I've been generating from my collection of H8 diskettes. -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Steven Parker" > Quite some time ago (before Katrina), I added some software to the archives > but I'm not sure I announced it. So, just in case, the added software items > are: > > Heath: > 890-7 Microsoft BASIC Rev. 4.7 > > HUG: > 885-1023 RTTY Disk H8 Only > 885-1042 PILOT > 885-1054 Small Bus Pkg II - 3 Disks > 885-1060 Disk VII > 885-1061 TMI Cassette to Disk H8 only > 885-1064 Disk IX > 885-1093 Dungeons and Dragons Game > 885-1106 Morse-89 H8/H19 or H89 > > Softstuff: > SF-9005 Inventory > > Tape: > BUG8-6.H8T ISSUE # 02.06.00 > CHASELED.H8T cute front panel game > CLOCK.H8T front panel clock > EXBASIC5.H8T ISSUE # 10.05.01 > EXBASIC6.H8T ISSUE # 10.06.00 > H8DERBY.H8T ISSUE # 27.00.00 > H8ORBIT.H8T ISSUE # 25.00.00 > HAMRABI.H8T ISSUE # 26.00.00 > HASL8-6.H8T ISSUE # 04.06.00 > MASTMIND.H8T Mastermind game > TED8-6.H8T ISSUE # 03.06.00 > > Execpt for the tapes, everything is hard-sector disk images (h8d). > > -- Steven > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bandit1921 at cox.net Tue Mar 21 11:29:29 2006 From: bandit1921 at cox.net (Joe Smith) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:29:29 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] archive additions In-Reply-To: <032120061617.9441.44202730000C4DB9000024E12206424613CFCFCF CD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> References: <032120061617.9441.44202730000C4DB9000024E12206424613CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060321102743.0243ea48@cox.net> It would be good if it just pulled the files out and saved them to folder somewhere, if that's what you are talking about. Notice the conversation about the SVD,I have been waiting for him to upgrade it to at least 1M so I can use it with my H89 and soft-sector disks,bigger than the original 90k worth. At 04:17 PM 3/21/2006 +0000, you wrote: >Steve, is there a spec on the H8d format? If so, I could build a >tool (C++ for Windows) that converts the disk image format used by >my and Dave Shaw's emulators to/from this format. I could then >supply that tool and a whole bunch of disk images that I've been >generating from my collection of H8 diskettes. > >-------------- Original message -------------- >From: "Steven Parker" > > > Quite some time ago (before Katrina), I added some software to > the archives > > but I'm not sure I announced it. So, just in case, the added > software items > > are: > > > > Heath: > > 890-7 Microsoft BASIC Rev. 4.7 > > > > HUG: > > 885-1023 RTTY Disk H8 Only > > 885-1042 PILOT > > 885-1054 Small Bus Pkg II - 3 Disks > > 885-1060 Disk VII > > 885-1061 TMI Cassette to Disk H8 only > > 885-1064 Disk IX > > 885-1093 Dungeons and Dragons Game > > 885-1106 Morse-89 H8/H19 or H89 > > > > Softstuff: > > SF-9005 Inventory > > > > Tape: > > BUG8-6.H8T ISSUE # 02.06.00 > > CHASELED.H8T cute front panel game > > CLOCK.H8T front panel clock > > EXBASIC5.H8T ISSUE # 10.05.01 < BR>> EXBASIC6.H8T ISSUE # 10.06.00 > > H8DERBY.H8T ISSUE # 27.00.00 > > H8ORBIT.H8T ISSUE # 25.00.00 > > HAMRABI.H8T ISSUE # 26.00.00 > > HASL8-6.H8T ISSUE # 04.06.00 > > MASTMIND.H8T Mastermind game > > TED8-6.H8T ISSUE # 03.06.00 > > > > Execpt for the tapes, everything is hard-sector disk images (h8d). > > > > -- Steven > > > > > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List Joe Smith joebandit jtsdadinaz Conbuilder debugger /Programmer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billwilkinson at mindspring.com Tue Mar 21 13:03:27 2006 From: billwilkinson at mindspring.com (William Wilkinson) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:03:27 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] archive additions Message-ID: <380-22006322119327328@mindspring.com> Steven, Are you saying that the file recovery tool on Disk IX is damaged, or that it recovers damaged files? --Bill > [Original Message] > From: Steven Parker > To: > Date: 3/21/2006 12:33:20 AM > Subject: Re: [sebhc] archive additions > > Dwight asked: > > What are "Small Bus Pkg II", "Disk VII" and "Disk IX" ? > > > > 885-1054 Small Bus Pkg II - 3 Disks > > This was HUG's 2nd small business package .. inventory, payroll, billing, > sales charts, etc. All in BASIC. > > > > 885-1060 Disk VII > > > 885-1064 Disk IX > > Two of HUG's "miscellaneous software" series. Disk VII has a baud rate > changer, command script tool, volume renamer, file dump, etc. Executables > and .ASM sources. > > Disk IX has a damaged file recovery tool, a print formatter, morse code > sender, HDOS clock, etc. Also with sources. Some written by our own David > Wallace. (and some revised by /AIWZ/). :-) > > -- Steven ("/AIWZ/") > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From spamspike at comcast.net Tue Mar 21 18:03:06 2006 From: spamspike at comcast.net (Stanley Webb) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:03:06 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] archive additions In-Reply-To: <032120061617.9441.44202730000C4DB9000024E12206424613CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> References: <032120061617.9441.44202730000C4DB9000024E12206424613CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> Message-ID: Dave Wallace, I have successfully converted the H8d format to David Shaw's H17 format using a Chipmunk Basic (free/donation) for Macintosh. I guessed the 400KB images might just be the data in consecutive sectors without headers. It appears that is right since when I added the 16 byte header from an H17 image and replaced the volume number in the header the images converted successfully. At least for HDOS images, that is. My simple but effective code follows. By the way thanks for keeping Dave's site online. Dim rawdisk(102400) dim header(16) Print "This Chipmunk Basic program converts a raw 400K H17 disk image to" Print "H8 Emulator's H17 format by adding header bytes to image." Print Print "Is that what you want? y or n" get answer$ if answer$ <> "y" then quit print "Press Key to Open Source File..." get answer$ open "SFGetFile" for data input as #1 print "Press key to open Output file get answer$ open "SFPutFile" for data output as #2 i=0 for i= 1 to 102400 byte = fgetbyte( 1 ) rawdisk(i) = byte next i for i= 0 to 15 read header(i) next i data &hff,&hc0,0,0,1,40,10 data 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0 header(3) = rawdisk(9*256+0) :'volume serial number for i = 0 to 15 fputbyte header(i), # 2 next i for i = 1 to 102400 fputbyte rawdisk(i), # 2 next i close #1 close #2 clear On Mar 21, 2006, at 9:17 AM, davidwallace2000 at comcast.net wrote: > Steve, is there a spec on the H8d format? If so, I could build a > tool (C++ for Windows) that converts the disk image format used by > my and Dave Shaw's emulators to/from this format. I could then > supply that tool and a whole bunch of disk images that I've been > generating from my collection of H8 diskettes. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dave06a at dunfield.com Tue Mar 21 18:40:17 2006 From: dave06a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:40:17 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] archive additions In-Reply-To: References: <032120061617.9441.44202730000C4DB9000024E12206424613CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20060322004103.VQTJ8983.orval.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> > Dave Wallace, > I have successfully converted the H8d format to David Shaw's H17 > format using a Chipmunk Basic (free/donation) for Macintosh. I > guessed the 400KB images might just be the data in consecutive > sectors without headers. It appears that is right since when I added > the 16 byte header from an H17 image and replaced the volume number > in the header the images converted successfully. At least for HDOS > images, that is. Yes, I ment to respond to the first query and got sidetracked. The H8D images I implemented for my simulator contain only the sector data, in logically ascending sector/track order. There is no header or other "overhead" data in the file. The emulation of the H17 in my virtual H8 adds/strips the header information so that the headers appear to be present in the simulation. I did it this way having just done the NorthStar hard-sectored simulation which does not have any header information - it seemed to make sense at the time, however in retrospect, I should have included the header data in the file - my scheme does not permit any other header data to be used except the format HDOS uses - I don't know if this is standard across all types of disks that can be used in the system... Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From sp11 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 21 23:17:17 2006 From: sp11 at hotmail.com (Steven Parker) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 05:17:17 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] disk formats (was: archive additions) In-Reply-To: <032120061617.9441.44202730000C4DB9000024E12206424613CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> Message-ID: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 05:17:17 GMT As Dave D. pointed out, there's no trick to h8d format - it's just raw sector data. When putting it on a real disk (or emulating) the header can be constructed from the track and sector numbers, and the volume number. The volume number is found on HDOS disks in the label sector, which is the last sector of the first track. The headers on the first track always use a volume number of zero. As far as I know, all non-HDOS hard-sector disks use the same header except that the volume number is always zero on every track. >I could then supply that tool and a whole bunch of disk images that I've >been generating from my collection of H8 diskettes. In addition to other functions, Eric's "fstool" converts between the formats. If you want to upload disk images as is, I can convert them with fstool. -- Steven P.S. Yes, Bill, that tool on HUG disk IX recovers damaged files. :-) -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From robin.england at dial.pipex.com Wed Mar 22 13:15:11 2006 From: robin.england at dial.pipex.com (Robin England) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:15:11 -0000 Subject: [sebhc] Fw: Re-creating actual floppies from archive Message-ID: <003d01c64de4$f15ca260$047ba8c0@HOME01> Hi Dwight I replied to your email off-list (please see below) but I think you may not have received it due to spam filter? Apologies if you've already seen it and haven't had time to reply. Also I was wondering what 8080 assembler you recommend for writing code on the H89? I think I need to write something to test the LP port! Regards Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin England" To: "Dwight Elvey" <***********> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 10:34 PM Subject: Re: Re-creating actual floppies from archive > Hi Dwight > > Thanks for your help so far. Sorry to hear about your video problem; funnily > enough the same happened to one of my H/Z89s the other day when the 53v > regulator transistor decided to go short circuit for no reason! > > No, unfortunately I've still not got to the bottom of the problem with the > loader. Quite simply, the H89 does not appear to be dealing with the serial > input from the PC. The area of memory that should be overwritten by the > loader (starting at 046-133) remains unchanged when I go back & check it. > > I've thoroughly tested my serial cable and the wiring right up to the LP > connector on the serial card. I've checked the schematic I have to confirm > that the correct signals are connected to the right pins on the 8250 (via > the RS232 / TTL level shifters of course). The -12v, +12v and +5v rails are > present and correct. > > I'm not sure but I think that perhaps the 8250 is not at the right address > (you've got 0x0E0 as the base address for the LP 8250 in your bootloader). > There are no jumpers on the serial card (other than IRQ) and I guess that > the address decoding for the three 8250s on the serial card is done in the > I/O map decoder U550. Is the address for the LP port fixed in all H89 > variants? > > As mentioned before, if I connect the brown molex connector to the terminal > board instead of the LP port, I can send and receive characters between the > H89 terminal and the DOS PC. If I send a ? to your H89TRANS program after > I've sent the loader (which gets dumped to the H89's screen of course) then > it returns to the command menu, however this does not happen when the LP > port is connected. > > In case I've missed anything, and as you've suggested, here is a > step-by-step account of what I have done :- > > 1) Connect a serial cable between COM1 of a PC running (pure) DOS and the > Line Printer serial connector on the H89. The LP port is wired as a DCE and > connects to P603 (top connector, marked LP) on the serial card. The serial > cable has been made up by me and I have checked that the wiring is correct. > It is a 9-way to 25-way d-type lead (the DOS PC has a 9-way port) so the > TX/RX pins go 2-2, 3-3 etc.. I've wired the handshaking lines up correctly > too (rather than just loopback). > > 2) Switch on the H89. With no disk in the drive, press B followed by return. > The disk drive spins. At this point I have tried waiting for the "Boot > Error?" message to appear, or have pressed right-shift RESET to interrupt > the load attempt and go back to the H: prompt, with the same results. > > 3) At the H: prompt, I then enter the octal listing you have given in the > file BOOTSTRP.OCL using the S (substitute) command and beginning at address > 43000. I enter each value for each address, pressing space to automatically > go to the next value. After entering the value for the last address, I press > enter to return to the H: prompt. > > 4) At the H: prompt, I then start the bootstrap loader with G 43000. The > cursor on the H89 jumps to the next line. No other characters are printed on > the H89 screen. > > 5) On the DOS PC, I change to a directory in which I have all the files that > are included in the archive H89LDR9. I start H89TRANS.COM and the program > prompts me for the COM port. I enter 1 (there is only one COM port on the > DOS machine). The program displays the value "1AC" followed by the command > menu. I then press L to send the next loader to the H89. > > At this point nothing further happens. I've left it for ten minutes plus > with no change. The command menu is never redisplayed. I can escape the DOS > program with the ESC key. On the H89, I can do a shift-RESET and then look > at the locations from 43000 where I find the bootstrap loader still in > memory, but nothing has changed! > > Do you think that the address of the LP port's 8250 could be the problem? > Unfortunately I don't have an 8080 assembler, so I'm unable to do what you > suggested with the code changes. > > Thanks for any further ideas you may have, hope you had a good weekend ! > > Robin > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dwight Elvey" <***********> > To: > Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 9:55 PM > Subject: Re: Re-creating actual floppies from archive > > > > Hi Robin > > I was wondering if you made any progress? > > Dwight > > > > > > >From: "Robin England" > > > > > >Dwight, many thanks for your suggestions. The one about the TX/RX lines > > >being swapped on the header to the serial card is an interesting one. I > have > > >got an RS232 light box somewhere, so I'll dig it out and have a look. > > >Incidentally yes I was pressing B with return, then shift-reset and then > > >entering and starting the 50 or so bytes of boot code from location 43000 > > >and the DOS program was not responding with the command menu or an error, > so > > >I guess it never got a ? back from the H89. > > > > > >I'll try a few things out and will let you know how I get on. Hope your > > >weekend in the mountains goes well, cheers Robin. > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Dwight Elvey" <***********> > > >To: > > >Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 1:20 AM > > >Subject: Re: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive > > > > > > > > >> >From: "Robin England" > > >> > > > >> >Hi Dwight > > >> > > > >> >Thanks for your comments. Well I've tried it but cannot get it to > work. > > >I've > > >> >followed the instructions to the letter, but can you clarify a couple > of > > >> >points for me? First, when you initially turn on the H/Z89 and press B > > >with > > >> >no disk in the drive, I assume that it *is* necessary to press enter > at > > >this > > >> >stage to actually start the boot attempt in order that the BIOS > variables > > >> >are initialised? Secondly, what should the DOS utility H89TRANS > respond > > >with > > >> >after you've pressed L and it has successfully sent the loader (e.g. > > >should > > >> >the command prompt re-appear?). > > >> > > >> I assume that after doing the B ( and yes, on some machines you need > > >> the return. I don't think it is need on the old H89's ) you then > > >> enter the 50 or so bytes from the monitor and started that program? > > >> Note that you need to use the reset button and not cycle the power > > >> to restart after the B command ( I had another fellow do this. > > >> See my note at the end of the post. I took forever for me to > > >> get him to tell me what he was doing. ). > > >> > > >> > > > >> >I'm finding that when I start H89TRANS and select the correct COM port > > >> >(COM1) I get the command menu. Then I press L (obviously with cable > > >> >connected and H/Z89 running the loader code) and it just sits there. > As > > >the > > >> >loader seems to be only about 800 bytes I'd expect it to complete > fairly > > >> >quickly at 9600 baud, but it does nothing. I can exit the DOS program > > >with > > >> >ESC, so the DOS PC hasn't hung. > > >> > > >> It shouldn't hang, it should return with the menu. ( 686 bytes to be > exact > > >> or about 6 seconds ). I think you also need the H89LDR2.BIN file > > >> to be in the same directory you were in when you started H89TRANS. > > >> I think that error aborts back to DOS,though. > > >> > > >> > > > >> >I'm pretty sure that the problem is not with the RS232 side of things > > >(cable > > >> >etc). If I connect the internal serial cable (brown molex conn) to the > > >> >terminal board instead of the serial card, I can happily send > characters > > >> >from the DOS PC (using Procomm) and receive them from the Z/89 > keyboard, > > >> >which suggests all is OK there. If I keep this setup and run your > > >H89TRANS > > >> >on the DOS PC, upon pressing L the loader is clearly sent because I > can > > >see > > >> >it dumped to the H/Z89 screen. > > >> > > > >> >So, I believe that the problem I have is related to the internal H/Z89 > > >> >serial configuration. On my serial card, the LP port is labelled on > the > > >> >silkscreen of the PCB as being the topmost connector (when viewed with > > >the > > >> >card as mounted normally). However I have tried both the other serial > > >ports > > >> >without success. I have also looped the CTS/RTS DSR/DTR handshaking > lines > > >at > > >> >the Z/89 connector just in case the BIOS serial routines require the > 8250 > > >to > > >> >use these. > > >> > > >> Then, I suspect that the top one is the right one but you may > > >> have to swap lines 2 and 3 or move the brown connector cable. > > >> As I recall, there are some jumpers to select this on the serial > > >> board but my memory is a little fuzzy here as to if that was > > >> the H8 or the H89 that had the jumpers to swap these lines. > > >> I do recall that the LP port had the 2 and 3 wires swapped > > >> relative to the normal serial port. Do you have a serial status > > >> light box? If not, you should have one. > > >> > > >> > > > >> >The serial card itself only has jumpers for IRQ setting. In the case > of > > >both > > >> >my machines, the IRQ setting is OFF for all three 8250s. I'm not sure > > >what > > >> >other jumper / switch settings may be important? As far as I can tell, > > >the > > >> >DIP switch on the logic board is concerned only with the serial I/O > > >between > > >> >terminal board and logic board. > > >> > > >> I don't use interrupts so that is correct, IRQ off. I'll check these > > >> this weekend. > > >> > > >> > > > >> >Also, is it possible that your code will not work on certain BIOS > > >versions? > > >> >I'm not sure but I think I've got MTR-90 on this machine (it supports > the > > >> >(V)iew function). > > >> > > >> There was an issue with the motor timeout that another had > > >> with a Z90. He was able to get it to work after I patched > > >> the code so I suspect it should work with your code. The first > > >> part of the code doesn't use any of the ROM code so it is > > >> unlikely that this is an issue. It isn't until it is actually > > >> reading and writing a disk that it uses anything in the ROMs. > > >> > > >> > > > >> >Have you any suggestions or perhaps some code that will dump input > from > > >the > > >> >LP serial channel to the H/Z89 screen as a test? I will look at > writing > > >this > > >> >myself if not, however my time with these machines has been more > focussed > > >on > > >> >restoring the hardware itself and not the programming yet! > > >> > > >> Look to make sure that the 2 and 3 signal lines are both driven. > > >> Use the top connector if that says LP. I suspect that that is the > > >> correct port if the board says LP. I won't be able to check my hardware > > >> setup until this weekend and won't be at a computer on the web > > >> until Monday ( the place is in the mountains ). > > >> > > >> For the loader part, the boot strap you enter into the H89 just > > >> sets up the serial port and reads the bytes into memory. It writes > > >> the data starting at the high end of the code and then continues > > >> to write until it writes over the last byte of the loader. This > > >> causes the code to go forward to where there is some code that isn't > > >> position sensitive to reposition the actual code such that if there > > >> were any additional bytes ( up to 3 more or less bytes by 1 ) that the > > >> code was off, it'll put things in the right place. > > >> Once the code is moved, it will then flush any remaining '0' > > >> from the serial ( NOP's ) and wait for the PC to send the first > > >> real command. The command ( as I recall ) an illegal command. > > >> As I recall, the H89 should then respond with a '?'. If so, > > >> the PC believes that the main code has been loaded and is > > >> ready to run. > > >> Knowing this, you could setup your terminal program on the H89 > > >> and wait until you think the loader is done loading. You can then > > >> reply with a '?' character sent from the H89 to the PC. It > > >> should then bring the menu back. This will tell you that the > > >> serial connection is working both ways for the PC program. > > >> I don't think that the terminal program should echo for > > >> the first part as the code is load but you might try it > > >> both ways, with and without echo ). > > >> I'll try and look at my code on the PC tonight and see if > > >> I'm correct about the last handshake. I believe the assembly > > >> source code is in the release for the part that is transferred > > >> to the H89 from the PC as H89LDR2.ASM. After the code has been > > >> transferred, you can drop back to the monitor on the H89 and look > > >> to see what is in the location 043 141 (split octal) and on. > > >> This code should match what the assembly code would create > > >> at the location of MAININT in the assembly code. Bytes before > > >> that may not match exactly the posistion. > > >> I don't recall if the H89LDR2.BIN file is stored byte reverse > > >> order or if I just reverse send it on the fly from the PC. > > >> One other thing. When talking to others to trouble shoot, I > > >> find that they tend leave out important details about what > > >> they did( similar to me not having the 'CR' after the B ). In > > >> order to make sure I know just what you've done could you > > >> give me a complete step by step report of what you did? > > >> Please be complete or it will be a waste of both our time. > > >> Include an estimate of the delay in time between each step. > > >> This may seem trivial to you but otherwise I'm working blind. > > >> This should give you enough to get things get started. > > >> Dwight > > >> > > >> > > > >> >Regards > > >> >Robin > > >> > > > >> >----- Original Message ----- > > >> >From: "Dwight Elvey" <***********> > > >> >To: > > >> >Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 12:36 AM > > >> >Subject: Re: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >> Hi > > >> >> Do make sure and let me know how it works for you!!! > > >> >> Also, make sure and follow the steps. When I do it, > > >> >> I forget to do the first disk attempt after powering on. > > >> >> It just won't work because I depend on the bios to > > >> >> initialize the variables and the controller. I need > > >> >> to carefully read my own instructions. > > >> >> Later > > >> >> Dwight > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> >From: "Dwight Elvey" <***********> > > >> >> > > > >> >> >Hi Robin > > >> >> > I don't recall which jumper setup was correct for the > > >> >> >serial but as I recall, things were just what was the > > >> >> > > > >> >> ---snip--- > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > > >-- > > >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From sp11 at hotmail.com Wed Mar 22 15:25:59 2006 From: sp11 at hotmail.com (Steven Parker) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:25:59 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] HDOS source listings added to archive In-Reply-To: <20060322004103.VQTJ8983.orval.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> Message-ID: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:25:59 GMT My company recently aquired one of those slick machines capable of high-speed stack-feeding double-sided scanning. A week later, I ran across the box containing my HOS-1-SL set (HDOS Source Lisings) during my Katrina cleanup; and they were not seriously affected (other than smell). So I cut the bindings off and dropped it in. I ran each chapter as a separate PDF file. They are all archived here: http://www.sebhc.org/archive/documents/software/HDOS-1/HOS-1-SL_595-2466/ Two downsides: It's an original edition, so it's HDOS 1.6, not 2.0. And it was printed on paper with horizons made up of tiny dots between every other line, so it's probably useless to OCR unless you can ignore sub-character-size marks (the dots are less than half the size of an actual period). Enjoy! -- Steven P.S. Anyone happen to have any navy blue VELO binding strips? I've only found black ones so far locally. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From waltm22 at comcast.net Wed Mar 22 17:55:42 2006 From: waltm22 at comcast.net (Walter Moore) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:55:42 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] HDOS source listings added to archive In-Reply-To: References: <20060322004103.VQTJ8983.orval.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20060322155252.03033fd8@mail.comcast.net> What resolution did you scan at? My little HP 7300 can do double sided scanning, and I removed the binding from my HDOS 2.0 listings way back in '81. I could try to scan it as a background job, and if that didn't work, maybe loan it to you for scanning? ..walt >My company recently aquired one of those slick machines capable of >high-speed stack-feeding double-sided scanning. > >A week later, I ran across the box containing my HOS-1-SL set (HDOS >Source Lisings) during my Katrina cleanup; and they were not >seriously affected (other than smell). So I cut the bindings off >and dropped it in. I ran each chapter as a separate PDF file. They >are all archived here: > > http://www.sebhc.org/archive/documents/software/HDOS-1/HOS-1-SL_595-2466/ > >Two downsides: It's an original edition, so it's HDOS 1.6, not >2.0. And it was printed on paper with horizons made up of tiny dots >between every other line, so it's probably useless to OCR unless you >can ignore sub-character-size marks (the dots are less than half the >size of an actual period). > >Enjoy! > >-- Steven > >P.S. Anyone happen to have any navy blue VELO binding strips? I've >only found black ones so far locally. > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From sp11 at hotmail.com Wed Mar 22 18:19:50 2006 From: sp11 at hotmail.com (Steven Parker) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 00:19:50 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] Re: HDOS source listings added to archive In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20060322155252.03033fd8@mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 00:19:50 GMT Walter asked: >What resolution did you scan at? 300 DPI. I ran a test first at 200 but it looked a bit too rough. (The machine will do up to 600, and it creates the PDF as it scans.) -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Wed Mar 22 18:46:34 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:46:34 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] HDOS source listings added to archive In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20060322155252.03033fd8@mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <006501c64e13$3c271fe0$6e01a8c0@barry> If you use Adobe Acrobat to make a PDF file, you don't need a duplex scanner. Acrobat can scan all the odd pages (front sides), then in a 2nd operation all the even pages (back sides) and correctly interleave them. You would, however, want an ADF (automatic document feeder) given the size of the project. In this case, however, I think Steve has already done the scanning. Barry Watzman Watzman at neo.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Walter Moore Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 6:56 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] HDOS source listings added to archive What resolution did you scan at? My little HP 7300 can do double sided scanning, and I removed the binding from my HDOS 2.0 listings way back in '81. I could try to scan it as a background job, and if that didn't work, maybe loan it to you for scanning? ..walt >My company recently aquired one of those slick machines capable of >high-speed stack-feeding double-sided scanning. > >A week later, I ran across the box containing my HOS-1-SL set (HDOS >Source Lisings) during my Katrina cleanup; and they were not >seriously affected (other than smell). So I cut the bindings off >and dropped it in. I ran each chapter as a separate PDF file. They >are all archived here: > > http://www.sebhc.org/archive/documents/software/HDOS-1/HOS-1-SL_595-2466/ > >Two downsides: It's an original edition, so it's HDOS 1.6, not >2.0. And it was printed on paper with horizons made up of tiny dots >between every other line, so it's probably useless to OCR unless you >can ignore sub-character-size marks (the dots are less than half the >size of an actual period). > >Enjoy! > >-- Steven > >P.S. Anyone happen to have any navy blue VELO binding strips? I've >only found black ones so far locally. > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From davidwallace2000 at comcast.net Wed Mar 22 21:11:39 2006 From: davidwallace2000 at comcast.net (davidwallace2000 at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 03:11:39 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] disk formats (was: archive additions) Message-ID: <032320060311.10966.442211EB0007597F00002AD62200751090CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> Okay, here's a list of what I have transcribed so far. (I have probably 75% of all that was released to run on the H8 under HDOS.) I haven't a clue about the copyright status of most of this: Toolworks C/80: C80_3_0_mathpack_distribution.disk C80_3_1_disk_1_of_2_distribution.disk C80_3_1_disk_2_of_2_distribution.disk More Software Toolworks programs: PIE_1_5_B_distribution.disk SPELL_distribution.disk TEXT_Ver_4_distribution.disk CP/M: cpm2_2_distribution_1.disk cpm2_2_distribution_2.disk cpm2_2_distribution_3.disk cpm2_2_update_distribution_1.disk cpm2_2_update_distribution_2.disk cpm2_2_update_distribution_3.disk cpm2_2_update_setup.disk cpm_2_2_02_dist_1.disk cpm_2_2_02_dist_2.disk My own Small C compiler package, as distributed by HUG: HDOS_Small_C_Disk_1.disk HDOS_Small_C_Disk_2.disk HDOS_Small_C_Disk_3.disk HDOS_Small_C_Disk_4.disk Here's a couple that the emulators probably won't handle :) ha_8_2_music_synthesizer_software_distribution.disk ha_8_3_color_graphics_software_distribution.disk HDOS from 1.0 up: hdos_1_0_system_distribution.disk hdos_1_3_system_distribution.disk hdos_1_5_system_distribution.disk hdos_1_6_system_distribution.disk hdos_2_0_device_drivers_distribution.disk hdos_2_0_software_tools_distribution.disk hdos_2_0_system_distribution.disk hdos_msbasic_aug_1980_distribution.disk hdos_msbasic_feb_1980_distribution.disk A hollow voice says PLUGH! HUG_ADVENTURE_885_1010.disk More HUG volumes: HUG_DEVICE_DRIVER_885_1019.disk HUG_EDITOR_885_1022.disk HUG_H8_GAMES_1_885_1029.disk HUG_H8_GAMES_2_885_1030.disk HUG_H8_MUSIC_885_1031_A.disk HUG_H8_MUSIC_885_1031_B.disk HUG_Replacement_SYDVD.disk HUG_RTTY_885_1023.disk HUG_RUNOFF_885_1025.disk HUG_SOFTWARE_DISK_1_885_1024.disk These are probably still copyright Microsoft: MACRO_80_FOR_CPM_distribution.disk MBASIC_FOR_CPM_distribution.disk ms_fortran_jun_1980_distribution.disk ms_fortran_sample_progs_jun_1980_distribution.disk -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Steven Parker" If you want to upload disk images as is, I can convert them with fstool. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidwallace2000 at comcast.net Wed Mar 22 21:15:20 2006 From: davidwallace2000 at comcast.net (davidwallace2000 at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 03:15:20 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] HDOS source listings added to archive Message-ID: <032320060315.17584.442212C80002C543000044B02200751090CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> Somewhere in my pile of diskettes, IIRR, I have the HDOS 2.0 code as (partially) annotated disassembly. I haven't come across the right box of diskettes yet. When I do, I'll transcribe to my disk image file format and it'll be available. -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Steven Parker" > Two downsides: It's an original edition, so it's HDOS 1.6, not 2.0. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shumaker at att.net Thu Mar 23 15:10:58 2006 From: shumaker at att.net (Steve Shumaker) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:10:58 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] SVD. In-Reply-To: <000001c64ceb$d5cd87c0$176fa8c0@obie> References: <9CE060225CD128408F0B549B0A6B26BC01ED0BED@0015-its-exmb01.us.saic.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20060323130903.02d91778@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> I obviously came into the middle of a thread here.. can someone post the SVD web site mentioned? - I'd like to take a look at it. thanks s shumaker At 07:32 AM 3/21/2006 -0600, you wrote: > > How is that SVD? I was looking at his website the other day > > and was thinking about building one of those. From the site > > it looks like this unit will emulate more than one floppy at > > a time. Is that correct? > > > > None of my floppy drives are worth a tinkers &(^#% now and > > seem to ruin any floppy I stick in there. The SVD might solve > > all my problems for me. > > > > Ron > >Ron (and all) - > >The SVD is a great product! In its current configuration it will emulate >two H8/H89 hard-sector floppies; I'm waiting for Eric to come out with >"Son of SVD" with more RAM and the ability to emulate more/higher >density disks. > >I used the SVD to create the original disk images in the SEBHC archives, >basically trying to treat my original H8 disks as read-once sources. >Since Eric includes a couple bootable images (both HDOS and CP/M) with >the SVD, you can build a system without a working floppy - though of >course you must have a working controller - and then work backwards with >real drives and media to test your drives. > >Several other list members have used other methods to load and retrieve >images, initally resulting in a couple different though convertible >formats. Steven went through and converted everything in the archive to >a common format and I think Eric has since modified his software to >produce the same image format as everyone else. > >In addition, the SVD can also be used with several other vintage >machines to load/emulate/create images so it really is useful (if >anything vintage computing related can truly be given that >description!). > >Jack > > >-- >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.6/286 - Release Date: 3/20/2006 > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From bill at armchairarcade.com Thu Mar 23 15:52:48 2006 From: bill at armchairarcade.com (Bill Loguidice) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:52:48 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] SVD. In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20060323130903.02d91778@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <002a01c64ec4$229451e0$f6b4400a@EAST.VIS.COM> www.thesvd.com ====================================== Bill Loguidice, Co-Founder and Editor Armchair Arcade, Inc. (A PC Magazine Top 100 Website, 2005) ====================================== http://www.armchairarcade.com > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org > [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Steve Shumaker > Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 4:11 PM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: RE: [sebhc] SVD. > > I obviously came into the middle of a thread here.. can > someone post the > SVD web site mentioned? - I'd like to take a look at it. > thanks > > s shumaker > > > > > > At 07:32 AM 3/21/2006 -0600, you wrote: > > > How is that SVD? I was looking at his website the other day > > > and was thinking about building one of those. From the site > > > it looks like this unit will emulate more than one floppy at > > > a time. Is that correct? > > > > > > None of my floppy drives are worth a tinkers &(^#% now and > > > seem to ruin any floppy I stick in there. The SVD might solve > > > all my problems for me. > > > > > > Ron > > > >Ron (and all) - > > > >The SVD is a great product! In its current configuration it > will emulate > >two H8/H89 hard-sector floppies; I'm waiting for Eric to > come out with > >"Son of SVD" with more RAM and the ability to emulate more/higher > >density disks. > > > >I used the SVD to create the original disk images in the > SEBHC archives, > >basically trying to treat my original H8 disks as read-once sources. > >Since Eric includes a couple bootable images (both HDOS and > CP/M) with > >the SVD, you can build a system without a working floppy - though of > >course you must have a working controller - and then work > backwards with > >real drives and media to test your drives. > > > >Several other list members have used other methods to load > and retrieve > >images, initally resulting in a couple different though convertible > >formats. Steven went through and converted everything in the > archive to > >a common format and I think Eric has since modified his software to > >produce the same image format as everyone else. > > > >In addition, the SVD can also be used with several other vintage > >machines to load/emulate/create images so it really is useful (if > >anything vintage computing related can truly be given that > >description!). > > > >Jack > > > > > >-- > >No virus found in this outgoing message. > >Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.6/286 - Release > Date: 3/20/2006 > > > > > >-- > >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Mar 23 18:56:32 2006 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:56:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sebhc] Fw: Re-creating actual floppies from archive Message-ID: <200603240056.QAA00436@ca2h0430.amd.com> Hi Robin When I'm debugging serial, I often change things to have a simple loopback. I then set the serial port of my PC to a slow baud rate ( usually 300 buad ). This way I can actually see the blinking lights of the serial light test box. I believe, a few simple modifications to my ~50 bytes could give you this at the H89 level so that you could test out the H89's LP port. If you have an oscilloscope or logic probe, you can watch the signals at the chips on the serial board as well. Here is some patches that should put the H89 into simple loop back running at 300 buad. First enter all the bytes for the BOOTSTRP.OCL as you normally do. Next, make the following changes: at 043 013 enter 200, 303, 053, 043 at 043 035 enter 060, 043 at 043 050 enter 323, 340, 351, 076, 001, 303, 017, 043 I hope the listing I have is the same because I'm not on the machine that has the most current listing. Right after you enter the first values location 043 051 should be 351 ( E9h ). After the patch it should be moved to 043 052. Also, rather than step dwon through memory, the value recieved by the serial port is placed at 043 060. This is useful to see which function is working or not working, RX or TX. You can send a bunch of 'A's and look for that in that location. You need to run a terminal program with 300 baud and 8 bits. I hope this helps you debug your problem. Dwight >From: "Robin England" > >Hi Dwight > >I replied to your email off-list (please see below) but I think you may not >have received it due to spam filter? > >Apologies if you've already seen it and haven't had time to reply. Also I >was wondering what 8080 assembler >you recommend for writing code on the H89? I think I need to write something >to test the LP port! > >Regards >Robin > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Robin England" >To: "Dwight Elvey" <***********> >Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 10:34 PM >Subject: Re: Re-creating actual floppies from archive > > >> Hi Dwight >> >> Thanks for your help so far. Sorry to hear about your video problem; >funnily >> enough the same happened to one of my H/Z89s the other day when the 53v >> regulator transistor decided to go short circuit for no reason! >> >> No, unfortunately I've still not got to the bottom of the problem with the >> loader. Quite simply, the H89 does not appear to be dealing with the >serial >> input from the PC. The area of memory that should be overwritten by the >> loader (starting at 046-133) remains unchanged when I go back & check it. >> >> I've thoroughly tested my serial cable and the wiring right up to the LP >> connector on the serial card. I've checked the schematic I have to confirm >> that the correct signals are connected to the right pins on the 8250 (via >> the RS232 / TTL level shifters of course). The -12v, +12v and +5v rails >are >> present and correct. >> >> I'm not sure but I think that perhaps the 8250 is not at the right address >> (you've got 0x0E0 as the base address for the LP 8250 in your bootloader). >> There are no jumpers on the serial card (other than IRQ) and I guess that >> the address decoding for the three 8250s on the serial card is done in the >> I/O map decoder U550. Is the address for the LP port fixed in all H89 >> variants? >> >> As mentioned before, if I connect the brown molex connector to the >terminal >> board instead of the LP port, I can send and receive characters between >the >> H89 terminal and the DOS PC. If I send a ? to your H89TRANS program after >> I've sent the loader (which gets dumped to the H89's screen of course) >then >> it returns to the command menu, however this does not happen when the LP >> port is connected. >> >> In case I've missed anything, and as you've suggested, here is a >> step-by-step account of what I have done :- >> >> 1) Connect a serial cable between COM1 of a PC running (pure) DOS and the >> Line Printer serial connector on the H89. The LP port is wired as a DCE >and >> connects to P603 (top connector, marked LP) on the serial card. The serial >> cable has been made up by me and I have checked that the wiring is >correct. >> It is a 9-way to 25-way d-type lead (the DOS PC has a 9-way port) so the >> TX/RX pins go 2-2, 3-3 etc.. I've wired the handshaking lines up correctly >> too (rather than just loopback). >> >> 2) Switch on the H89. With no disk in the drive, press B followed by >return. >> The disk drive spins. At this point I have tried waiting for the "Boot >> Error?" message to appear, or have pressed right-shift RESET to interrupt >> the load attempt and go back to the H: prompt, with the same results. >> >> 3) At the H: prompt, I then enter the octal listing you have given in the >> file BOOTSTRP.OCL using the S (substitute) command and beginning at >address >> 43000. I enter each value for each address, pressing space to >automatically >> go to the next value. After entering the value for the last address, I >press >> enter to return to the H: prompt. >> >> 4) At the H: prompt, I then start the bootstrap loader with G 43000. The >> cursor on the H89 jumps to the next line. No other characters are printed >on >> the H89 screen. >> >> 5) On the DOS PC, I change to a directory in which I have all the files >that >> are included in the archive H89LDR9. I start H89TRANS.COM and the program >> prompts me for the COM port. I enter 1 (there is only one COM port on the >> DOS machine). The program displays the value "1AC" followed by the command >> menu. I then press L to send the next loader to the H89. >> >> At this point nothing further happens. I've left it for ten minutes plus >> with no change. The command menu is never redisplayed. I can escape the >DOS >> program with the ESC key. On the H89, I can do a shift-RESET and then look >> at the locations from 43000 where I find the bootstrap loader still in >> memory, but nothing has changed! >> >> Do you think that the address of the LP port's 8250 could be the problem? >> Unfortunately I don't have an 8080 assembler, so I'm unable to do what you >> suggested with the code changes. >> >> Thanks for any further ideas you may have, hope you had a good weekend ! >> >> Robin >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Dwight Elvey" <***********> >> To: >> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 9:55 PM >> Subject: Re: Re-creating actual floppies from archive >> >> >> > Hi Robin >> > I was wondering if you made any progress? >> > Dwight >> > >> > >> > >From: "Robin England" >> > > >> > >Dwight, many thanks for your suggestions. The one about the TX/RX lines >> > >being swapped on the header to the serial card is an interesting one. I >> have >> > >got an RS232 light box somewhere, so I'll dig it out and have a look. >> > >Incidentally yes I was pressing B with return, then shift-reset and >then >> > >entering and starting the 50 or so bytes of boot code from location >43000 >> > >and the DOS program was not responding with the command menu or an >error, >> so >> > >I guess it never got a ? back from the H89. >> > > >> > >I'll try a few things out and will let you know how I get on. Hope your >> > >weekend in the mountains goes well, cheers Robin. >> > > >> > >----- Original Message ----- >> > >From: "Dwight Elvey" <***********> >> > >To: >> > >Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 1:20 AM >> > >Subject: Re: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive >> > > >> > > >> > >> >From: "Robin England" >> > >> > >> > >> >Hi Dwight >> > >> > >> > >> >Thanks for your comments. Well I've tried it but cannot get it to >> work. >> > >I've >> > >> >followed the instructions to the letter, but can you clarify a >couple >> of >> > >> >points for me? First, when you initially turn on the H/Z89 and press >B >> > >with >> > >> >no disk in the drive, I assume that it *is* necessary to press enter >> at >> > >this >> > >> >stage to actually start the boot attempt in order that the BIOS >> variables >> > >> >are initialised? Secondly, what should the DOS utility H89TRANS >> respond >> > >with >> > >> >after you've pressed L and it has successfully sent the loader (e.g. >> > >should >> > >> >the command prompt re-appear?). >> > >> >> > >> I assume that after doing the B ( and yes, on some machines you need >> > >> the return. I don't think it is need on the old H89's ) you then >> > >> enter the 50 or so bytes from the monitor and started that program? >> > >> Note that you need to use the reset button and not cycle the power >> > >> to restart after the B command ( I had another fellow do this. >> > >> See my note at the end of the post. I took forever for me to >> > >> get him to tell me what he was doing. ). >> > >> >> > >> > >> > >> >I'm finding that when I start H89TRANS and select the correct COM >port >> > >> >(COM1) I get the command menu. Then I press L (obviously with cable >> > >> >connected and H/Z89 running the loader code) and it just sits there. >> As >> > >the >> > >> >loader seems to be only about 800 bytes I'd expect it to complete >> fairly >> > >> >quickly at 9600 baud, but it does nothing. I can exit the DOS >program >> > >with >> > >> >ESC, so the DOS PC hasn't hung. >> > >> >> > >> It shouldn't hang, it should return with the menu. ( 686 bytes to be >> exact >> > >> or about 6 seconds ). I think you also need the H89LDR2.BIN file >> > >> to be in the same directory you were in when you started H89TRANS. >> > >> I think that error aborts back to DOS,though. >> > >> >> > >> > >> > >> >I'm pretty sure that the problem is not with the RS232 side of >things >> > >(cable >> > >> >etc). If I connect the internal serial cable (brown molex conn) to >the >> > >> >terminal board instead of the serial card, I can happily send >> characters >> > >> >from the DOS PC (using Procomm) and receive them from the Z/89 >> keyboard, >> > >> >which suggests all is OK there. If I keep this setup and run your >> > >H89TRANS >> > >> >on the DOS PC, upon pressing L the loader is clearly sent because I >> can >> > >see >> > >> >it dumped to the H/Z89 screen. >> > >> > >> > >> >So, I believe that the problem I have is related to the internal >H/Z89 >> > >> >serial configuration. On my serial card, the LP port is labelled on >> the >> > >> >silkscreen of the PCB as being the topmost connector (when viewed >with >> > >the >> > >> >card as mounted normally). However I have tried both the other >serial >> > >ports >> > >> >without success. I have also looped the CTS/RTS DSR/DTR handshaking >> lines >> > >at >> > >> >the Z/89 connector just in case the BIOS serial routines require the >> 8250 >> > >to >> > >> >use these. >> > >> >> > >> Then, I suspect that the top one is the right one but you may >> > >> have to swap lines 2 and 3 or move the brown connector cable. >> > >> As I recall, there are some jumpers to select this on the serial >> > >> board but my memory is a little fuzzy here as to if that was >> > >> the H8 or the H89 that had the jumpers to swap these lines. >> > >> I do recall that the LP port had the 2 and 3 wires swapped >> > >> relative to the normal serial port. Do you have a serial status >> > >> light box? If not, you should have one. >> > >> >> > >> > >> > >> >The serial card itself only has jumpers for IRQ setting. In the case >> of >> > >both >> > >> >my machines, the IRQ setting is OFF for all three 8250s. I'm not >sure >> > >what >> > >> >other jumper / switch settings may be important? As far as I can >tell, >> > >the >> > >> >DIP switch on the logic board is concerned only with the serial I/O >> > >between >> > >> >terminal board and logic board. >> > >> >> > >> I don't use interrupts so that is correct, IRQ off. I'll check these >> > >> this weekend. >> > >> >> > >> > >> > >> >Also, is it possible that your code will not work on certain BIOS >> > >versions? >> > >> >I'm not sure but I think I've got MTR-90 on this machine (it >supports >> the >> > >> >(V)iew function). >> > >> >> > >> There was an issue with the motor timeout that another had >> > >> with a Z90. He was able to get it to work after I patched >> > >> the code so I suspect it should work with your code. The first >> > >> part of the code doesn't use any of the ROM code so it is >> > >> unlikely that this is an issue. It isn't until it is actually >> > >> reading and writing a disk that it uses anything in the ROMs. >> > >> >> > >> > >> > >> >Have you any suggestions or perhaps some code that will dump input >> from >> > >the >> > >> >LP serial channel to the H/Z89 screen as a test? I will look at >> writing >> > >this >> > >> >myself if not, however my time with these machines has been more >> focussed >> > >on >> > >> >restoring the hardware itself and not the programming yet! >> > >> >> > >> Look to make sure that the 2 and 3 signal lines are both driven. >> > >> Use the top connector if that says LP. I suspect that that is the >> > >> correct port if the board says LP. I won't be able to check my >hardware >> > >> setup until this weekend and won't be at a computer on the web >> > >> until Monday ( the place is in the mountains ). >> > >> >> > >> For the loader part, the boot strap you enter into the H89 just >> > >> sets up the serial port and reads the bytes into memory. It writes >> > >> the data starting at the high end of the code and then continues >> > >> to write until it writes over the last byte of the loader. This >> > >> causes the code to go forward to where there is some code that isn't >> > >> position sensitive to reposition the actual code such that if there >> > >> were any additional bytes ( up to 3 more or less bytes by 1 ) that >the >> > >> code was off, it'll put things in the right place. >> > >> Once the code is moved, it will then flush any remaining '0' >> > >> from the serial ( NOP's ) and wait for the PC to send the first >> > >> real command. The command ( as I recall ) an illegal command. >> > >> As I recall, the H89 should then respond with a '?'. If so, >> > >> the PC believes that the main code has been loaded and is >> > >> ready to run. >> > >> Knowing this, you could setup your terminal program on the H89 >> > >> and wait until you think the loader is done loading. You can then >> > >> reply with a '?' character sent from the H89 to the PC. It >> > >> should then bring the menu back. This will tell you that the >> > >> serial connection is working both ways for the PC program. >> > >> I don't think that the terminal program should echo for >> > >> the first part as the code is load but you might try it >> > >> both ways, with and without echo ). >> > >> I'll try and look at my code on the PC tonight and see if >> > >> I'm correct about the last handshake. I believe the assembly >> > >> source code is in the release for the part that is transferred >> > >> to the H89 from the PC as H89LDR2.ASM. After the code has been >> > >> transferred, you can drop back to the monitor on the H89 and look >> > >> to see what is in the location 043 141 (split octal) and on. >> > >> This code should match what the assembly code would create >> > >> at the location of MAININT in the assembly code. Bytes before >> > >> that may not match exactly the posistion. >> > >> I don't recall if the H89LDR2.BIN file is stored byte reverse >> > >> order or if I just reverse send it on the fly from the PC. >> > >> One other thing. When talking to others to trouble shoot, I >> > >> find that they tend leave out important details about what >> > >> they did( similar to me not having the 'CR' after the B ). In >> > >> order to make sure I know just what you've done could you >> > >> give me a complete step by step report of what you did? >> > >> Please be complete or it will be a waste of both our time. >> > >> Include an estimate of the delay in time between each step. >> > >> This may seem trivial to you but otherwise I'm working blind. >> > >> This should give you enough to get things get started. >> > >> Dwight >> > >> >> > >> > >> > >> >Regards >> > >> >Robin >> > >> > >> > >> >----- Original Message ----- >> > >> >From: "Dwight Elvey" <***********> >> > >> >To: >> > >> >Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 12:36 AM >> > >> >Subject: Re: [sebhc] Re-creating actual floppies from archive >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> Hi >> > >> >> Do make sure and let me know how it works for you!!! >> > >> >> Also, make sure and follow the steps. When I do it, >> > >> >> I forget to do the first disk attempt after powering on. >> > >> >> It just won't work because I depend on the bios to >> > >> >> initialize the variables and the controller. I need >> > >> >> to carefully read my own instructions. >> > >> >> Later >> > >> >> Dwight >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >From: "Dwight Elvey" <***********> >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> >Hi Robin >> > >> >> > I don't recall which jumper setup was correct for the >> > >> >> >serial but as I recall, things were just what was the >> > >> >> > >> > >> >> ---snip--- >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> -- >> > >> Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> > > >> > >-- >> > >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> > >> > >> > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From shumaker at att.net Fri Mar 24 16:05:55 2006 From: shumaker at att.net (Steve Shumaker) Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 14:05:55 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] SVD. In-Reply-To: <002a01c64ec4$229451e0$f6b4400a@EAST.VIS.COM> References: <5.1.1.5.2.20060323130903.02d91778@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20060324140534.031dc2f0@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> thanks! looks like quite a useful tool! s shumaker At 04:52 PM 3/23/2006 -0500, you wrote: >www.thesvd.com > >====================================== >Bill Loguidice, Co-Founder and Editor >Armchair Arcade, Inc. >(A PC Magazine Top 100 Website, 2005) >====================================== >http://www.armchairarcade.com > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org > > [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Steve Shumaker > > Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 4:11 PM > > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > > Subject: RE: [sebhc] SVD. > > > > I obviously came into the middle of a thread here.. can > > someone post the > > SVD web site mentioned? - I'd like to take a look at it. > > thanks > > > > s shumaker > > > > > > > > > > > > At 07:32 AM 3/21/2006 -0600, you wrote: > > > > How is that SVD? I was looking at his website the other day > > > > and was thinking about building one of those. From the site > > > > it looks like this unit will emulate more than one floppy at > > > > a time. Is that correct? > > > > > > > > None of my floppy drives are worth a tinkers &(^#% now and > > > > seem to ruin any floppy I stick in there. The SVD might solve > > > > all my problems for me. > > > > > > > > Ron > > > > > >Ron (and all) - > > > > > >The SVD is a great product! In its current configuration it > > will emulate > > >two H8/H89 hard-sector floppies; I'm waiting for Eric to > > come out with > > >"Son of SVD" with more RAM and the ability to emulate more/higher > > >density disks. > > > > > >I used the SVD to create the original disk images in the > > SEBHC archives, > > >basically trying to treat my original H8 disks as read-once sources. > > >Since Eric includes a couple bootable images (both HDOS and > > CP/M) with > > >the SVD, you can build a system without a working floppy - though of > > >course you must have a working controller - and then work > > backwards with > > >real drives and media to test your drives. > > > > > >Several other list members have used other methods to load > > and retrieve > > >images, initally resulting in a couple different though convertible > > >formats. Steven went through and converted everything in the > > archive to > > >a common format and I think Eric has since modified his software to > > >produce the same image format as everyone else. > > > > > >In addition, the SVD can also be used with several other vintage > > >machines to load/emulate/create images so it really is useful (if > > >anything vintage computing related can truly be given that > > >description!). > > > > > >Jack > > > > > > > > >-- > > >No virus found in this outgoing message. > > >Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > >Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.6/286 - Release > > Date: 3/20/2006 > > > > > > > > >-- > > >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From sp11 at hotmail.com Sat Mar 25 22:29:45 2006 From: sp11 at hotmail.com (Steven Parker) Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 04:29:45 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] David Wallace's disks In-Reply-To: <032320060311.10966.442211EB0007597F00002AD62200751090CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> Message-ID: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 04:29:45 GMT David Wallace uploaded some of the disks he listed in Thursday's message. I converted all the unique ones to .h8d format and added them to the archive. Most of it was HUG with the notable exception of the original HDOS (#50.00.00, from March 1977). Thanks David! -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Sat Mar 25 23:38:15 2006 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 00:38:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: [sebhc] David Wallace's disks Message-ID: <200603260538.AAA18540@ss10.danlan.com> |David Wallace uploaded some of the disks he listed in Thursday's message. I |converted all the unique ones to .h8d format and added them to the archive. | |Most of it was HUG with the notable exception of the original HDOS |(#50.00.00, from March 1977). What about the HDOS 1.3 he mentioned? I'd never heard of that version before... Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From sp11 at hotmail.com Sun Mar 26 00:10:09 2006 From: sp11 at hotmail.com (Steven Parker) Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 06:10:09 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] HDOS 1.3 In-Reply-To: <200603260538.AAA18540@ss10.danlan.com> Message-ID: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 06:10:09 GMT Dan asked >What about the HDOS 1.3 he mentioned? I'd never heard of that version >before... It was already in the archive. The disk label calls it "version 1.0" but the issue # is "50.03.00". There are other HDOS versions, both older and newer, that we still don't have. -- Steven -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From shumaker at att.net Sun Mar 26 09:27:07 2006 From: shumaker at att.net (Steve Shumaker) Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 07:27:07 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] HDOS 1.3 In-Reply-To: References: <200603260538.AAA18540@ss10.danlan.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20060326072541.00c06500@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> Is there a list posted somewhere of things to look for? s shumaker At 06:10 AM 3/26/2006 +0000, you wrote: >Dan asked >>What about the HDOS 1.3 he mentioned? I'd never heard of that version >>before... > >It was already in the archive. The disk label calls it "version 1.0" but >the issue # is "50.03.00". > >There are other HDOS versions, both older and newer, that we still don't have. > >-- Steven > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From sp11 at hotmail.com Sun Mar 26 12:07:14 2006 From: sp11 at hotmail.com (Steven Parker) Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 18:07:14 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] David's disks (was: HDOS 1.3) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20060326072541.00c06500@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 18:07:14 GMT >Is there a list posted somewhere of things to look for? You mean the things David just sent? He posted a list on Thursday. The unique items that have been uploaded so far are: (under HUG) 885-1022_Editor.h8d 885-1024_Disk_I_Misc.h8d 885-1025_Runoff.h8d 885-1030_Disk_III_Games.h8d 885-1031A_Disk_IV_Music.h8d 885-1031B_Disk_IV_Music.h8d 885-1134A_HDOS_Small_C.h8d 885-1134B_HDOS_Small_C.h8d 885-1134C_HDOS_Small_C.h8d 885-1134D_HDOS_Small_C.h8d (under HDOS) HDOS_1-0_Issue_#50-00-00_890-1.h8d -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Sun Mar 26 14:54:32 2006 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 15:54:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: [sebhc] HDOS 1.3 Message-ID: <200603262054.PAA24339@ss10.danlan.com> |Dan asked |>What about the HDOS 1.3 he mentioned? I'd never heard of that version |>before... | |It was already in the archive. The disk label calls it "version 1.0" but |the issue # is "50.03.00". Interesting. Is that the version 1.0 that I uploaded? If so, it says 1.0 on more than the label; it is all through the code and messages. |There are other HDOS versions, both older and newer, that we still don't |have. Were these older versions real releases or betas? I thought I had an H17 pretty much from when it became publicly available and collected all the real releases (plus 3.0 which I don't consider all that real :). Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From shumaker at att.net Sun Mar 26 16:32:58 2006 From: shumaker at att.net (Steve Shumaker) Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 14:32:58 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] David's disks (was: HDOS 1.3) In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.5.2.20060326072541.00c06500@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20060326142738.0298c8c8@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> No... sorry, looking at my post, it wasn't particularly clear. In watching the list for while, I've seen comments like "we don't have that yet" or "we're missing this", etc. Have any of the more knowledgeable members considered posting a list of things to watch for, items that are missing from the archive, stuff that should be preserved but that no one has uploaded yet. A wish list for the archives... s shumaker At 06:07 PM 3/26/2006 +0000, you wrote: >>Is there a list posted somewhere of things to look for? > >You mean the things David just sent? He posted a list on Thursday. The >unique items that have been uploaded so far are: > >(under HUG) >885-1022_Editor.h8d >885-1024_Disk_I_Misc.h8d >885-1025_Runoff.h8d >885-1030_Disk_III_Games.h8d >885-1031A_Disk_IV_Music.h8d >885-1031B_Disk_IV_Music.h8d >885-1134A_HDOS_Small_C.h8d >885-1134B_HDOS_Small_C.h8d >885-1134C_HDOS_Small_C.h8d >885-1134D_HDOS_Small_C.h8d > >(under HDOS) >HDOS_1-0_Issue_#50-00-00_890-1.h8d > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From davidwallace2000 at comcast.net Sun Mar 26 18:38:49 2006 From: davidwallace2000 at comcast.net (davidwallace2000 at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 00:38:49 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] David's disks (was: HDOS 1.3) Message-ID: <032720060038.28745.442734190005F39C000070492206998499CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> By all means publish a wishlist! If nothing else, it's an indication of what was available for the H8. Who knows? I just might have that disk around here somewhere... :) The remaining disks I indicated I had in my previous post were not uploaded because I'm not sure of the copyright status for cp/m, microsoft languages and Software Toolworks products. -------------- Original message -------------- From: Steve Shumaker > No... sorry, looking at my post, it wasn't particularly clear. > > In watching the list for while, I've seen comments like "we don't have > that yet" or "we're missing this", etc. Have any of the more > knowledgeable members considered posting a list of things to watch for, > items that are missing from the archive, stuff that should be preserved but > that no one has uploaded yet. A wish list for the archives... > > s shumaker > > > > At 06:07 PM 3/26/2006 +0000, you wrote: > >>Is there a list posted somewhere of things to look for? > > > >You mean the things David just sent? He posted a list on Thursday. The > >unique items that have been uploaded so far are: > > > >(under HUG) > >885-1022_Editor.h8d > >885-1024_Disk_I_Misc.h8d > >885-1025_Runoff.h8d > >885-1030_Disk_III_Games.h8d > >885-1031A_Disk_IV_Music.h8d > >885-1031B_Disk_IV_Music.h8d > >885-1134A_HDOS_Small_C.h8d > >885-1134B_HDOS_Small_C.h8d > >885-1134C_HDOS_Small_C.h8d > >885-1134D_HDOS_Small_C.h8d > > > >(under HDOS) > >HDOS_1-0_Issue_#50-00-00_890-1.h8d > > > > > >-- > >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garlanger at gmail.com Sun Mar 26 19:56:20 2006 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 19:56:20 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] David's disks (was: HDOS 1.3) In-Reply-To: <032720060038.28745.442734190005F39C000070492206998499CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> References: <032720060038.28745.442734190005F39C000070492206998499CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> Message-ID: <704e82240603261756w39124191va6999fe8d4811529@mail.gmail.com> For info about CP/M see: http://www.cpm.z80.de/license.html There used to be a different license that was provided by Caldera when they owned the rights, but apparently that one is no longer valid. I'm not sure if the email mean ONLY that site has the rights to provide it or if others can also. Mark On 3/26/06, davidwallace2000 at comcast.net wrote: > > By all means publish a wishlist! If nothing else, it's an indication of > what was available for the H8. Who knows? I just might have that disk > around here somewhere... :) > > The remaining disks I indicated I had in my previous post were not uploaded > because I'm not sure of the copyright status for cp/m, microsoft languages > and Software Toolworks products. > > > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: Steve Shumaker > > > No... sorry, looking at my post, it wasn't particularly clear. > > > > In watching the list for while, I've seen comments like "we don't have > > that yet" or "we're missing this", etc. Have any of the more > > knowledgeable members considered posting a list of things to watch for, > > items that are missing from the archive, stuff that should be preserved > but > > that no one has uploaded yet. A wish list for the archives... > > > > s shumaker > > > > > > > > At 06:07 PM 3/26/2006 +0000, you wrote: > > >>Is there a list posted somewhere of things to look for? > > > > > >You mean the things David just sent? He posted a list on Thursday. The > > >unique items that have been uploaded so far are: > > > > > >(under HUG) > > >885-1022_Editor.h8d > > >885-1024_Disk_I_Misc.h8d > > >885-1025_Runoff.h8d > > >885-1030_Disk_III_Games.h8d > > >885-1031A_Disk_IV_Music.h8d > > >885-1031B_Disk_IV_Music.h8d > > >885-1134A_HDOS_Small_C.h8d > > >885-1134B_HDOS_Small_C.h8d > > >885-1134C_HDOS_Small_C.h8d > > >885-1134D_HDOS_Small_C.h8d > > > > > >(under HDOS) > > >HDOS_1-0_Issue_#50-00-00_890-1.h8d > > > > > > > > >-- > > >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Sun Mar 26 20:22:03 2006 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 20:22:03 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] David's disks (was: HDOS 1.3) In-Reply-To: <032720060038.28745.442734190005F39C000070492206998499CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000001c65145$3ce40e90$176fa8c0@obie> Walt Bilofsky (Software Toolworks) has released all of _his_ work - including PIE and his C compiler - to the public domain but in several cases works authored by others were released by Software Toolworks and remain under the control of the original author. Specifically, Jim Gillogly has _not_ released his work - TEXT and some neat games. CP/M, including sources, is fully available on Gaby's site and I think all the copyright issues have been resolved, at least for the 8-bit OS. I've seen a lot of MS 8-bit stuff available but I don't know anything about the copyright status. Maybe things will be made more explicit now that Paul Allen's museum is taking shape. HDOS in all versions (i.e. including HDOS 3.0) has been released to the public domain. The SEBHC archives have remained a private "members only" archive specifically to address this issue. Items added to the archive are not made "freely available" and will always be removed if the owners of the rights request me to do so. Jack ************************************************************* -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of davidwallace2000 at comcast.net Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 6:39 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] David's disks (was: HDOS 1.3) The remaining disks I indicated I had in my previous post were not uploaded because I'm not sure of the copyright status for cp/m, microsoft languages and Software Toolworks products. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.1/292 - Release Date: 3/24/2006 -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Sun Mar 26 20:26:06 2006 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 21:26:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: [sebhc] David's disks (was: HDOS 1.3) Message-ID: <200603270226.VAA00154@ss10.danlan.com> |The remaining disks I indicated I had in my previous post were not uploaded because I'm not sure of the copyright status for cp/m, I uploaded all the CP/M releases a while ago and they seem to be in the archive with the file names I originally used. Note that I posted the actual label text for each release here shortly after uploading, but it doesn't seem to have been integrated into the archive. Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From sp11 at hotmail.com Sun Mar 26 21:09:40 2006 From: sp11 at hotmail.com (Steven Parker) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 03:09:40 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] Dan's disks In-Reply-To: <200603270226.VAA00154@ss10.danlan.com> Message-ID: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 03:09:40 GMT >I uploaded all the CP/M releases a while ago and they seem to be in >the archive with the file names I originally used. Note that I posted >the actual label text for each release here shortly after uploading, >but it doesn't seem to have been integrated into the archive. I guess Jack and I both missed that. I think I was having a problem with the local weather at the time. The label info is a bit more than one-liner's. Do these names seem appropriate? CPM_2_2_distribution_1.h8d CPM_2_2_distribution_2.h8d CPM_2_2_distribution_3.h8d CPM_2_2_update_1.h8d CPM_2_2_update_2.h8d CPM_2_2_update_3.h8d CPM_2_2_update_setup.h8d CPM_2_2_02_distribution_1.h8d CPM_2_2_02_distribution_2.h8d -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From robin.england at dial.pipex.com Mon Mar 27 06:35:30 2006 From: robin.england at dial.pipex.com (Robin England) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:35:30 +0100 Subject: [sebhc] Re: Re-creating actual floppies from archive Message-ID: <003401c6519a$f0a97a50$03fea8c0@mpxp731gb> Hi Dwight Thanks (again) for your valuable assistance! BTW I hope you are feeling better now. Unfortunately due to my job I don't get much free time to spend on my hobby, but this weekend I was able to finally spend a couple of hours in my workshop and got to the bottom of the serial problem I was having! At last I have your disk transfer program working fine now! The cause of the lack of serial comms was actually that the 8250 itself was faulty. Talk about bad luck; I had originally discounted the serial card having a hardware fault because I tried swapped serial cards between my two H89s and this had not fixed the fault. As it turns out, BOTH the serial cards had duff 8250s in the LP port circuit ! In the end, I swapped an 8250 from one of the other ports on the card to the LP section and your loader started to work fine. I can't imagine why the 8250s on the LP port on both machines should have both suffered the same fate; the line drivers associated with the LP port on both serial cards are absolutely fine. I'd have thought that if someone has mis-connected the LP port on both machines, or subjected it to static discharge the line drivers would have been the first to go! There was one other problem that's worth mentioning for those who also want to use your H89TRANS. On my pure DOS machine I have Windows 3.1 installed and as is usual with Win3.1 installations, I also have SmartDrive installed. When I initially got your loader program communicating I found that at some random point during the transfer of data between the H89 and the DOS PC, the communication would suddenly stop. However, when using the floppy drive (on the DOS PC) as the source or destination, the problem did not occur. I found that not loading SMARTDRV.SYS on the DOS PC fixed this and allowed the data transfer to complete successfully. I've now saved the loader on the H89 to a new disk successfully so I don't have to re-enter the loader into the H89 each time. Also have successfully 'imaged' one of my original disks and have written it back to another (blank but INITed) disk with no problems. I've only two disks that came with the machines, both are HDOS with INIT, SYSGEN and one has BASIC, so I'm looking forward to playing with some of the images that are now in the archive. I also got myself a Z80 assembler (freeware) from Programmer's Heaven which works fine (I converted your source listing for the loader from 8080 to Z80 opcodes successfully and it generates an exact (hex) listing to your octal listing for your 42 byte loader which was reassuring!). BTW, another approach I thought about trying was to use a different serial port in your loader program by changing the base address (0xE0) but I can't find a map of I/O addresses for devices in the H89, is there a definitive list somewhere? Also, can you (or anyone) explain the significance of the volume number to me? Your program allows you to set (override) a volume number or take it from a disk image. I assume that this is the 'unique volume number' that you are asked to input (from 1 - 255) when INITialising a disk. What is the importance of this (i.e. will setting the wrong volume number when creating an actual disk mean that the disk won't work?). Thanks again for your help! Regards Robin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Mon Mar 27 07:08:23 2006 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 07:08:23 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Good news, bad news -- Robin succeeds; Message too long (>20000 chars) Message-ID: <003901c6519f$8781abb0$176fa8c0@obie> Please note the header below - context is great but snipping replies cuts the server load! If the full email trail is necessary, you can always find past email in the archives under sebhc-list. Jack -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 3:15 AM To: sebhc-approval at sebhc.org Subject: BOUNCE sebhc at sebhc.org: Message too long (>20000 chars) ************************************************************************ * Hi Dwight Thanks (again) for your valuable assistance! BTW I hope you are feeling better now. Unfortunately due to my job I don't get much free time to spend on my hobby, but this weekend I was able to finally spend a couple of hours in my workshop and got to the bottom of the serial problem I was having! At last I have your disk transfer program working fine now! The cause of the lack of serial comms was actually that the 8250 itself was faulty. Talk about bad luck; I had originally discounted the serial card having a hardware fault because I tried swapped serial cards between my two H89s and this had not fixed the fault. As it turns out, BOTH the serial cards had duff 8250s in the LP port circuit ! In the end, I swapped an 8250 from one of the other ports on the card to the LP section and your loader started to work fine. I can't imagine why the 8250s on the LP port on both machines should have both suffered the same fate; the line drivers associated with the LP port on both serial cards are absolutely fine. I'd have thought that if someone has mis-connected the LP port on both machines, or subjected it to static discharge the line drivers would have been the first to go! There was one other problem that's worth mentioning for those who also want to use your H89TRANS. On my pure DOS machine I have Windows 3.1 installed and as is usual with Win3.1 installations, I also have SmartDrive installed. When I initially got your loader program communicating I found that at some random point during the transfer of data between the H89 and the DOS PC, the communication would suddenly stop. However, when using the floppy drive (on the DOS PC) as the source or destination, the problem did not occur. I found that not loading SMARTDRV.SYS on the DOS PC fixed this and allowed the data transfer to complete successfully. I've now saved the loader on the H89 to a new disk successfully so I don't have to re-enter the loader into the H89 each time. Also have successfully 'imaged' one of my original disks and have written it back to another (blank but INITed) disk with no problems. I've only two disks that came with the machines, both are HDOS with INIT, SYSGEN and one has BASIC, so I'm looking forward to playing with some of the images that are now in the archive. I also got myself a Z80 assembler (freeware) from Programmer's Heaven which works fine (I converted your source listing for the loader from 8080 to Z80 opcodes successfully and it generates an exact (hex) listing to your octal listing for your 42 byte loader which was reassuring!). BTW, another approach I thought about trying was to use a different serial port in your loader program by changing the base address (0xE0) but I can't find a map of I/O addresses for devices in the H89, is there a definitive list somewhere? Also, can you (or anyone) explain the significance of the volume number to me? Your program allows you to set (override) a volume number or take it from a disk image. I assume that this is the 'unique volume number' that you are asked to input (from 1 - 255) when INITialising a disk. What is the importance of this (i.e. will setting the wrong volume number when creating an actual disk mean that the disk won't work?). Thanks again for your help! Regards Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dwight Elvey" To: Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 1:56 AM Subject: Re: [sebhc] Fw: Re-creating actual floppies from archive > Hi Robin > When I'm debugging serial, I often change things to have a simple > loopback. I then set the serial port of my PC to a slow baud rate ( > usually 300 buad ). This way I can actually see the blinking lights of > the serial light test box. I believe, a few simple modifications to > my ~50 bytes could give you this at the H89 level so that you could > test out the H89's LP port. If you have an oscilloscope or logic > probe, you can watch the signals at the chips on the serial board as > well. Here is some patches that should put the H89 into simple loop > back running at 300 buad. First enter all the bytes for the > BOOTSTRP.OCL as you normally do. Next, make the following > changes: > > at 043 013 enter 200, 303, 053, 043 > at 043 035 enter 060, 043 > at 043 050 enter 323, 340, 351, 076, 001, 303, 017, 043 > > I hope the listing I have is the same because I'm not > on the machine that has the most current listing. Right > after you enter the first values location 043 051 should > be 351 ( E9h ). After the patch it should be moved to 043 052. Also, > rather than step dwon through memory, the value recieved by the serial > port is placed at 043 060. This is useful to see which function is > working or not working, RX or TX. You can send a bunch of 'A's and > look for that in that location. > You need to run a terminal program with 300 baud and 8 bits. > I hope this helps you debug your problem. > Dwight > > > > >From: "Robin England" > > > >Hi Dwight > > > >I replied to your email off-list (please see below) but I think you > >may not > >have received it due to spam filter? > > > >Apologies if you've already seen it and haven't had time to reply. > >Also I was wondering what 8080 assembler you recommend for writing > >code on the H89? I think I need to write something > >to test the LP port! > > > >Regards > >Robin > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Robin England" > >To: "Dwight Elvey" <***********> > >Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 10:34 PM > >Subject: Re: Re-creating actual floppies from archive > > > > > >> Hi Dwight > >> > >> Thanks for your help so far. Sorry to hear about your video > >> problem; > >funnily > >> enough the same happened to one of my H/Z89s the other day when the > >> 53v regulator transistor decided to go short circuit for no reason! > >> > >> No, unfortunately I've still not got to the bottom of the problem > >> with the > >> loader. Quite simply, the H89 does not appear to be dealing with > >> the > >serial > >> input from the PC. The area of memory that should be overwritten by > >> the loader (starting at 046-133) remains unchanged when I go back & > >> check -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.2/293 - Release Date: 3/26/2006 -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From robin.england at dial.pipex.com Mon Mar 27 07:36:06 2006 From: robin.england at dial.pipex.com (Robin England) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:36:06 +0100 Subject: [sebhc] Good news, bad news -- Robin succeeds; Message too long (>20000 chars) References: <003901c6519f$8781abb0$176fa8c0@obie> Message-ID: <001301c651a3$6766fe80$03fea8c0@mpxp731gb> > Please note the header below - context is great but snipping replies > cuts the server load! If the full email trail is necessary, you can > always find past email in the archives under sebhc-list. > > Jack Oops! Sorry - I was so excited I got carried away... ;-) Robin -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From davidwallace2000 at comcast.net Mon Mar 27 09:35:26 2006 From: davidwallace2000 at comcast.net (davidwallace2000 at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:35:26 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] David's disks (was: HDOS 1.3) Message-ID: <032720061535.20843.4428063E000594FF0000516B2207300793CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> That being the case, I've just uploaded the three C/80 disks. -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Jack Rubin" > Walt Bilofsky (Software Toolworks) has released all of _his_ work - > including PIE and his C compiler - to the public domain -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Mon Mar 27 09:43:07 2006 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 07:43:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sebhc] David's disks (was: HDOS 1.3) In-Reply-To: <032720061535.20843.4428063E000594FF0000516B2207300793CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20060327154307.27175.qmail@web53711.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks! davidwallace2000 at comcast.net wrote: That being the case, I've just uploaded the three C/80 disks. -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Jack Rubin" > Walt Bilofsky (Software Toolworks) has released all of _his_ work - > including PIE and his C compiler - to the public domain -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sp11 at hotmail.com Mon Mar 27 10:00:44 2006 From: sp11 at hotmail.com (Steven Parker) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:00:44 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] RE: David's disks... In-Reply-To: <032720061535.20843.4428063E000594FF0000516B2207300793CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> Message-ID: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:00:44 GMT >That being the case, I've just uploaded the three C/80 disks. I converted them to h8d format and placed them under "other". What about those H-8-[23] disks? (I actually have both of those devices) -- Steven -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From waltm22 at comcast.net Mon Mar 27 11:00:40 2006 From: waltm22 at comcast.net (Walter Moore) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:00:40 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] H19 & H9 up for grabs! In-Reply-To: References: <032720061535.20843.4428063E000594FF0000516B2207300793CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20060327085502.02fbef20@mail.comcast.net> I have an H9 and an H19 sitting in Connecticut that were part of eBay item #8775475005. I have no need for these, and am offering them to anyone willing to pay shipping or even pick them up. ..walt -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From davidwallace2000 at comcast.net Mon Mar 27 11:00:39 2006 From: davidwallace2000 at comcast.net (davidwallace2000 at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:00:39 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] RE: David's disks... Message-ID: <032720061700.19265.44281A37000C08EB00004B412207300793CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> Ask and ye shall receive. (I hope NOGDS won't mind!) -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Steven Parker" > >That being the case, I've just uploaded the three C/80 disks. > > I converted them to h8d format and placed them under "other". > > What about those H-8-[23] disks? (I actually have both of those devices) > > -- Steven > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shumaker at att.net Mon Mar 27 11:24:55 2006 From: shumaker at att.net (Steve Shumaker) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:24:55 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] H19 & H9 up for grabs! In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20060327085502.02fbef20@mail.comcast.net> References: <032720061535.20843.4428063E000594FF0000516B2207300793CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20060327092433.00c3ee70@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> I'll take the H9 off your hands! s shumaker At 09:00 AM 3/27/2006 -0800, you wrote: >I have an H9 and an H19 sitting in Connecticut that were part of eBay item >#8775475005. I have no need for these, and am offering them to anyone >willing to pay shipping or even pick them up. > >..walt > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From bill at armchairarcade.com Mon Mar 27 12:13:16 2006 From: bill at armchairarcade.com (Bill Loguidice) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:13:16 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H19 & H9 up for grabs! In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20060327085502.02fbef20@mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <017f01c651ca$20cb0ee0$f6b4400a@EAST.VIS.COM> If you take Paypal, I'd love to take the H19, Walt, if no one else has already beat me to it. Thanks! bill at armchairarcade.com ====================================== Bill Loguidice, Co-Founder and Editor Armchair Arcade, Inc. (A PC Magazine Top 100 Website, 2005) ====================================== http://www.armchairarcade.com > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org > [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Walter Moore > Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 12:01 PM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: [sebhc] H19 & H9 up for grabs! > > I have an H9 and an H19 sitting in Connecticut that were part of eBay > item #8775475005. I have no need for these, and am offering them to > anyone willing to pay shipping or even pick them up. > > ..walt > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Mon Mar 27 14:29:31 2006 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:29:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: [sebhc] Dan's disks Message-ID: <200603272029.PAA16223@ss10.danlan.com> |The label info is a bit more than one-liner's. Do these names seem |appropriate? | |CPM_2_2_distribution_1.h8d |CPM_2_2_distribution_2.h8d |CPM_2_2_distribution_3.h8d |CPM_2_2_update_1.h8d |CPM_2_2_update_2.h8d |CPM_2_2_update_3.h8d |CPM_2_2_update_setup.h8d |CPM_2_2_02_distribution_1.h8d |CPM_2_2_02_distribution_2.h8d I'll pull the actual disks when I get a chance and see if the names are obvious enough... Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Mon Mar 27 14:36:46 2006 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:36:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: [sebhc] Good news, bad news -- Robin succeeds; Message too long (>20000 chars) Message-ID: <200603272036.PAA16324@ss10.danlan.com> |The cause of the lack of serial comms was actually that the 8250 itself |was faulty. Talk about bad luck; I had originally discounted the serial |card having a hardware fault because I tried swapped serial cards |between my two H89s and this had not fixed the fault. As it turns out, |BOTH the serial cards had duff 8250s in the LP port circuit ! Back when I first bought a (new) 4-port serial card for the H8, 3 of the 4 8250s were bad. I don't remember the exact symptom, but it wasn't a complete failure. I think they locked up after a few characters. Heath did not believe me. They were willing to send one replacement but no more. I wrote several letters explaining that the good 8250 could be moved to any of the four channels and would work fine, so the problem was likely not anywhere else on the card. They pretended (at least I hope they were pretending :) to be dumb and claimed that instead this proved that I must have made a mistake assembling the card. Later I think I saw the same problem on an H89. So either there was a bad batch of 8250s or their design was pushing some timing parameter to the edge and only the "best" chips worked. Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Mon Mar 27 14:37:56 2006 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:37:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: [sebhc] David's disks (was: HDOS 1.3) Message-ID: <200603272037.PAA16341@ss10.danlan.com> |That being the case, I've just uploaded the three C/80 disks. Were those HDOS or CP/M? I think I have 3.1 for CP/M and 2.0 for HDOS. Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From davidwallace2000 at comcast.net Mon Mar 27 15:05:25 2006 From: davidwallace2000 at comcast.net (davidwallace2000 at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 21:05:25 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] David's disks (was: HDOS 1.3) Message-ID: <032720062105.26987.442853950007AD900000696B2200750784CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> HDOS. (Most of my stuff was for HDOS.) -------------- Original message -------------- From: Dan Lanciani > |That being the case, I've just uploaded the three C/80 disks. > > Were those HDOS or CP/M? I think I have 3.1 for CP/M and 2.0 for HDOS. > > Dan Lanciani > ddl at danlan.*com > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Watzman at neo.rr.com Mon Mar 27 15:11:21 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:11:21 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Good news, bad news -- Robin succeeds; Message too long (>20000 chars) In-Reply-To: <200603272036.PAA16324@ss10.danlan.com> Message-ID: <007e01c651e2$ffc99ea0$6e01a8c0@barry> Story time. Sometime in 1980 or 1981 (don't remember exactly when, but Don Moffet was ZDS President at the time) we had a "panic" because Z-89's were crashing and locking up in final test for no apparent reason. There was circumstantial evidence that the serial ports, specifically the 8250's, were involved because sometimes the machine was found to be not locked up completely, but rather just seemingly dead because the 8250's had spontaneously reset and had to be reinitialized (finding out just this much was a major accomplishment). Production lines were shut down, we had engineers from National Semiconductor working on the problem, we had meetings in Moffet's office twice a day to review progress/status, and the engineers working the problem were on 7-day a week schedules. Interestingly, there were a few reports of similar occurrences in the field, but not the number that we would have expected, and almost always in brand-new machines. Bottom line: The problem was caused by arcing inside the CRT from "crap" (could be microscopic, invisible crap) that was initially present inside a new CRT. If the crap got into the wrong places (the 2nd anode voltage in the 89 is up near 10,000 volts) it caused an arc. The arc could be fairly violent, and could distribute itself both via the CRT wiring and also wirelessly, by electromagnet radiation, and it could reset the serial port, the entire computer or anything else, as well as cause a "glitch" in memory or the CPU. But it was transient and generally non-destructive. And the arc destroyed the "crap" inside the CRT, kind of like a bug-zapper, so the problem was self-resolving ... it happened in new units, but each hour of operation reduced the chances of it's ever happening to that unit again (although shipment could redistribute un-zapped crap inside the CRT and cause a brief return of the problem). After a period of much hand wringing, shipments were resumed. I don't remember if we did anything other than, perhaps, to slightly lengthen the burn-in duration. Barry Watzman Watzman at neo.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Dan Lanciani Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 3:37 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] Good news, bad news -- Robin succeeds; Message too long (>20000 chars) |The cause of the lack of serial comms was actually that the 8250 itself |was faulty. Talk about bad luck; I had originally discounted the serial |card having a hardware fault because I tried swapped serial cards |between my two H89s and this had not fixed the fault. As it turns out, |BOTH the serial cards had duff 8250s in the LP port circuit ! Back when I first bought a (new) 4-port serial card for the H8, 3 of the 4 8250s were bad. I don't remember the exact symptom, but it wasn't a complete failure. I think they locked up after a few characters. Heath did not believe me. They were willing to send one replacement but no more. I wrote several letters explaining that the good 8250 could be moved to any of the four channels and would work fine, so the problem was likely not anywhere else on the card. They pretended (at least I hope they were pretending :) to be dumb and claimed that instead this proved that I must have made a mistake assembling the card. Later I think I saw the same problem on an H89. So either there was a bad batch of 8250s or their design was pushing some timing parameter to the edge and only the "best" chips worked. Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Mar 27 16:15:16 2006 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:15:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sebhc] Re: Re-creating actual floppies from archive Message-ID: <200603272215.OAA25304@ca2h0430.amd.com> >From: "Robin England" > >Hi Dwight > >Thanks (again) for your valuable assistance! BTW I hope you are feeling >better now. > ---snip--- > >The cause of the lack of serial comms was actually that the 8250 itself was >faulty. Talk about bad luck; I had originally discounted the serial card >having a hardware fault because I tried swapped serial cards between my two >H89s and this had not fixed the fault. As it turns out, BOTH the serial >cards had duff 8250s in the LP port circuit ! Hi Robin They may have failed in another position and the fellow just swapped them as you have. It may also just be that you could reseat them in the sockets and they'd work fine. I use some silicone grease, like DowCorning #4 on the pins if I suspect sockets. Also, some of the sockets with the folded, stamped, pins tend to fail with oxygen starved corrosion. The platting gets tiny breaks that let a little moisture through. Over time the springiness goes away and the socket become flakey. Replacing with good machined pin sockets is the best solution. ---snip--- > >There was one other problem that's worth mentioning for those who also want >to use your H89TRANS. On my pure DOS machine I have Windows 3.1 installed >and as is usual with Win3.1 installations, I also have SmartDrive installed. >When I initially got your loader program communicating I found that at some >random point during the transfer of data between the H89 and the DOS PC, the >communication would suddenly stop. However, when using the floppy drive (on >the DOS PC) as the source or destination, the problem did not occur. I found >that not loading SMARTDRV.SYS on the DOS PC fixed this and allowed the data >transfer to complete successfully. I guess smartdrv is using too much time and I get an overrun error. I don't take advantage of any fifos that the newer serial parts have so it might be just a matter of not keeping up with the serial port. I may add a feature to enable the fifos but that'll need to wait until I can spend some time on it this summer. ---snip--- > >I've only two disks that came with the machines, both are HDOS with INIT, >SYSGEN and one has BASIC, so I'm looking forward to playing with some of the >images that are now in the archive. See if these contain any versions we don't already have. ---snip--- > >BTW, another approach I thought about trying was to use a different serial >port in your loader program by changing the base address (0xE0) but I can't >find a map of I/O addresses for devices in the H89, is there a definitive >list somewhere? I think the I/O ports are listed in one of the manuals that are online. It seems like I saw it someplace. I chose the LP port because that was the one that used a normal 1 to 1 cable without the need of a null modem. I could specify patch addresses so that one could change which port on the H8/89 end. I'll give it some thought. > >Also, can you (or anyone) explain the significance of the volume number to >me? Your program allows you to set (override) a volume number or take it >from a disk image. I assume that this is the 'unique volume number' that you >are asked to input (from 1 - 255) when INITialising a disk. What is the >importance of this (i.e. will setting the wrong volume number when creating >an actual disk mean that the disk won't work?). HDOS puts the volume number into the header for each sector. That way, if one swaps a disk in the drive, HDOS will recognize that it isn't the original disk and over write something it shouldn't. It uses the volume number on each track except track 0. It uses this track to boot from. I puts the track number in the data field of sector 9 ( tenth sector ) on track 0. This way, HDOS can figure what the other tracks are without having to look. It seems that CP/M always formats the disk as having volume 0 in the sector headers but the value on sector 9 may not match the volume number used on the headers of the other tracks. This is also true for the FIG Forth that I sent to the archives. It only uses headers with 0 as the volume number in the sector header but I know that the volume number on sector 9 is not 0. This is why I have the override. If it was just HDOS, I'd have no issue. The h8d format is just the sector data and doesn't include anything about the sector headers that would have the volume number. As I said, for HDOS disk, finding the correct volume number is simply looking in the right place in the data fields. For non-HDOS, it is more of a problem. I should also note that the save routine that I have for the loader is minimal and doesn't format the entire disk. It only formats enough to load its program and can't be copied as an image with my program. It can be recreated by the commands in the menu so I didn't think this was an issue. I suspect that if the disk was preformatted as a volume 0 it would work but I've never tried this. Dwight -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dave06a at dunfield.com Mon Mar 27 20:24:18 2006 From: dave06a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 21:24:18 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H8D files and labels In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20060326072541.00c06500@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> References: Message-ID: <20060328022509.GLJK29380.berlinr.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> I seem to have deleted it, but someone was just talking about keeping labels for H8D files... What I did when I defined the ImageDisk file format, was that I make everything from the beginning of the file up to a 0x1A (^Z) character a "comment". IMD puts in it's "IMD" signature, as well as the version and timestamp as the first line, then the user-supplied comment can go "on forever". Because 0x1A (^Z) is the DOS text-EOF character, you can TYPE these files to see the comment - TYPE stops output when it hits the ^Z. IMD simply scans for the ^Z before it starts processing track data. We could easily modify the H8D definition to do the same thing. It would be very easy to add support for this to the simulator(s). Just check the file size - if < disk image, error (as now), if == disk image size, no comment. If > disk image size, scan for the ^Z and check the remaining size == disk image. Record the offset to ^Z and add this to all seeks within the file. With this scheme, you can put plenty of information right in the file, where you don't need to worry about it getting separated from the image. When I record an image with IMD, I usually type any label on the disk into the comment so that it is preserved along with the data content. Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Mon Mar 27 21:13:57 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 22:13:57 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H8D files and labels In-Reply-To: <20060328022509.GLJK29380.berlinr.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> Message-ID: <000601c65215$a785ea40$6e01a8c0@barry> If you are going to go modifying the format, I'd suggest a more extensive modification that would allow for an arbitrary length and content of the "comment" ... even to the point that the "comment" could contain, for example, a JPEG file (photo of the original disk label). Also, try to devise a technique that does this while allowing for backward compatibility, which probably means put the "comment" field at the end, not the beginning. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Dave Dunfield Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 9:24 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: [sebhc] H8D files and labels I seem to have deleted it, but someone was just talking about keeping labels for H8D files... What I did when I defined the ImageDisk file format, was that I make everything from the beginning of the file up to a 0x1A (^Z) character a "comment". IMD puts in it's "IMD" signature, as well as the version and timestamp as the first line, then the user-supplied comment can go "on forever". Because 0x1A (^Z) is the DOS text-EOF character, you can TYPE these files to see the comment - TYPE stops output when it hits the ^Z. IMD simply scans for the ^Z before it starts processing track data. We could easily modify the H8D definition to do the same thing. It would be very easy to add support for this to the simulator(s). Just check the file size - if < disk image, error (as now), if == disk image size, no comment. If > disk image size, scan for the ^Z and check the remaining size == disk image. Record the offset to ^Z and add this to all seeks within the file. With this scheme, you can put plenty of information right in the file, where you don't need to worry about it getting separated from the image. When I record an image with IMD, I usually type any label on the disk into the comment so that it is preserved along with the data content. Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Mon Mar 27 21:32:43 2006 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 21:32:43 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] H8D files and labels In-Reply-To: <20060328022509.GLJK29380.berlinr.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> Message-ID: <000001c65218$463bba50$176fa8c0@obie> A minor quibble and/or request - if all image files are a fixed size, it's easy to make a quick visual check of a directory and (if file sizes are constant) be fairly sure that they have been created/saved/transferred correctly. The value of incorporating "metadata" into the record seems to far outweigh this convenience. In that case, it would be nice to have a verify mode in IMD or an associated utility that could operate on an arbitrary list of files to report back on the integrity of the included images. Jack > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org > [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Dave Dunfield > Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 8:24 PM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: [sebhc] H8D files and labels > > > I seem to have deleted it, but someone was just talking about > keeping labels for H8D files... > > What I did when I defined the ImageDisk file format, was that > I make everything from the beginning of the file up to a 0x1A > (^Z) character a "comment". IMD puts in it's "IMD" signature, > as well as the version and timestamp as the first line, then > the user-supplied comment can go "on forever". > > Because 0x1A (^Z) is the DOS text-EOF character, you can TYPE > these files to see the comment - TYPE stops output when it > hits the ^Z. IMD simply scans for the ^Z before it starts > processing track data. > > We could easily modify the H8D definition to do the same > thing. It would be very easy to add support for this to the > simulator(s). Just check the file size - if < disk image, > error (as now), if == disk image size, no comment. If > disk > image size, scan for the ^Z and check the remaining size == > disk image. Record the offset to ^Z and add this to all seeks > within the file. > > With this scheme, you can put plenty of information right in > the file, where you don't need to worry about it getting > separated from the image. When I record an image with IMD, I > usually type any label on the disk into the comment so that > it is preserved along with the data content. > > Dave > > -- > dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield > dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.2/293 - Release Date: 3/26/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.2/293 - Release Date: 3/26/2006 -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Mon Mar 27 22:22:44 2006 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 23:22:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: [sebhc] David's disks (was: HDOS 1.3) Message-ID: <200603280422.XAA18938@ss10.danlan.com> |HDOS. (Most of my stuff was for HDOS.) I have just uploaded the CP/M version of C/80 3.1 and the HDOS version of C/80 2.0. Also pie15.img is the CP/M version of PIE 1.5 in soft sector format. Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com |-------------- Original message -------------- |From: Dan Lanciani | |> |That being the case, I've just uploaded the three C/80 disks. |> |> Were those HDOS or CP/M? I think I have 3.1 for CP/M and 2.0 for HDOS. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From frustum at pacbell.net Mon Mar 27 23:14:57 2006 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 23:14:57 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] H8D files and labels In-Reply-To: <20060328022509.GLJK29380.berlinr.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> References: <20060328022509.GLJK29380.berlinr.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> Message-ID: <4428C651.6080305@pacbell.net> Dave Dunfield wrote: > I seem to have deleted it, but someone was just talking about keeping > labels for H8D files... As I was passively following this thread, I was thinking it was crazy that the sum total descriptive information of the disk images is contained in the filenames. Metadata must be kept somehow, and making it part of the disk image itself makes the most sense. In the virtual disk image formats I cooked up for my Sol and Wang emulators, I have a fixed block to hold format revision, disk format (# tracks, sides, density, etc), plus a fixed amount of space for a label. I regret making the label fixed size, even though it is much more than anybody has ever squeezed onto a real disk label. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Mon Mar 27 23:38:46 2006 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 23:38:46 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] H8D files and labels In-Reply-To: <4428C651.6080305@pacbell.net> References: <20060328022509.GLJK29380.berlinr.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> <4428C651.6080305@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <704e82240603272138n445936afvddeea7a198c3c771@mail.gmail.com> Instead of creating a new format, why don't we leverage an existing format such as .zip files? I know these disk image files are already small so compression isn't needed, but zip files also provide CRC check (CRC32) per file, there is open/free code from infozip (http://www.info-zip.org/) to handle zip files, it supports comments, but we can also provide special files inside the zip file for description, images, etc. An additional advantage is that people using older software which does not support .zip can use any of the unzipper's (including Windows XP built-in support) to extract the .h8d file and use ithat file, the additional information can be read/used by the user. Alsoe, once the format is defined, programs using it should ignore any files it does not know about and be tolerate if any of the expected support files are missing (short of the actual disk image of course). This will allow us to update the format, if needed, and still be backward and forward compatible between the files and any programs that would use them. Mark On 3/27/06, Jim Battle wrote: > Dave Dunfield wrote: > > I seem to have deleted it, but someone was just talking about keeping > > labels for H8D files... > > As I was passively following this thread, I was thinking it was crazy > that the sum total descriptive information of the disk images is > contained in the filenames. > > Metadata must be kept somehow, and making it part of the disk image > itself makes the most sense. In the virtual disk image formats I cooked > up for my Sol and Wang emulators, I have a fixed block to hold format > revision, disk format (# tracks, sides, density, etc), plus a fixed > amount of space for a label. I regret making the label fixed size, even > though it is much more than anybody has ever squeezed onto a real disk > label. > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From robin.england at dial.pipex.com Tue Mar 28 03:43:28 2006 From: robin.england at dial.pipex.com (Robin England) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:43:28 +0100 Subject: [sebhc] CRT flashover [was Good news, bad news -- Robin succeeds] References: <007e01c651e2$ffc99ea0$6e01a8c0@barry> Message-ID: <001c01c6524c$121d9ac0$03fea8c0@mpxp731gb> From: "Barry Watzman" > Bottom line: The problem was caused by arcing inside the CRT from "crap" > (could be microscopic, invisible crap) that was initially present inside a > new CRT. Hi Barry. I've heard of such CRT "flashover" before, my father (now retired) ran a consumer electronics repair company for many years and they recognised it as the cause of problems when TV sets started to use digital ICs. Inexplicable problems where serial EEPROMs would suddenly lose configuration data etc... As far as I know the devices were not permanently damaged in those cases though. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From robin.england at dial.pipex.com Tue Mar 28 03:59:14 2006 From: robin.england at dial.pipex.com (Robin England) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:59:14 +0100 Subject: [sebhc] A source of more Heath docs? Message-ID: <000a01c6524e$4624a050$03fea8c0@mpxp731gb> Hi All I've rediscovered where I originally got my copy of the Z89/90 schematic from. I guess you probably already know of this site but there seems to be loads of other Heath related docs that are not in the SEBHC archive including information of the Z100 model etc.. Perhaps we should ask the site owner if he minds us adding copies of these to the SEBHC archive? See the Heathkit Computer link on the following page :- http://www.pestingers.net/PDFs/ Regards Robin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave06a at dunfield.com Tue Mar 28 05:23:15 2006 From: dave06a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 06:23:15 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H8D files and labels In-Reply-To: <000001c65218$463bba50$176fa8c0@obie> References: <20060328022509.GLJK29380.berlinr.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> Message-ID: <20060328112407.RRLD8983.orval.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> > A minor quibble and/or request - if all image files are a fixed size, > it's easy to make a quick visual check of a directory and (if file sizes > are constant) be fairly sure that they have been > created/saved/transferred correctly. The value of incorporating > "metadata" into the record seems to far outweigh this convenience. In > that case, it would be nice to have a verify mode in IMD or an > associated utility that could operate on an arbitrary list of files to > report back on the integrity of the included images. Hi Jack, By "IMD" are you referring to my existing soft-sector "ImageDisk" system? If so, there already is a verify tool - IMDU is the "ImageDisk Utility" which verifies, copies, merges and does a whole bunch more with .IMD image files. If you are referring to what we would have with my suggested update to the .H8D format - as noted in my previous posting, the simulator would verify the file by a simple algorithm when it mounts it. It would be a very simple matter to write a listing utility which would display the .H8D files (like a DIR), except that it would verify the file comment/size, and would display the comment. Something like: DISK1 H8D 102400 05-21-04 8:30a OK (No comment) DISK2 H8D 102427 05-21-04 8:30a OK Sample one-line comment DISK3 H8D 102473 05-21-04 8:31a OK This is a sample multi-line comment that could be contained in a disk image. Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dave06a at dunfield.com Tue Mar 28 05:23:15 2006 From: dave06a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 06:23:15 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H8D files and labels In-Reply-To: <000601c65215$a785ea40$6e01a8c0@barry> References: <20060328022509.GLJK29380.berlinr.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> Message-ID: <20060328112413.RRLL8983.orval.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> > If you are going to go modifying the format, I'd suggest a more extensive > modification that would allow for an arbitrary length and content of the > "comment" ... even to the point that the "comment" could contain, for > example, a JPEG file (photo of the original disk label). Also, try to > devise a technique that does this while allowing for backward compatibility, > which probably means put the "comment" field at the end, not the beginning. Oh well ... the idea is that it would have been a VERY simple modification to implement in the simulators (scan for ^Z ad beginning - add offset to seeks). Embeddeding JPEGs is beyond what I am interested in doing in my H8 tools (DOS based). Also, as noted in my original idea - it would be backward compatible. The simulator checks the size now - so all that is needed is to slightly expand this logic: if(size < RAW_IMAGE_SIZE) error("Bad disk image"); else if(size == RAW_IMAGE_SIZE) offset = 0; else { offset = position_of_first(0x1A); if((size - offset) != raw_image_size) error("Bad disk image"); } Also as noted, the whole point of putting the comment as text terminated with ^Z is that you can simply TYPE the file to view the comment (Try that with one of my ImageDisk .IMD files) no special tools needed. Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dave06a at dunfield.com Tue Mar 28 05:23:15 2006 From: dave06a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 06:23:15 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H8D files and labels In-Reply-To: <704e82240603272138n445936afvddeea7a198c3c771@mail.gmail.com> References: <4428C651.6080305@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <20060328112410.RRLI8983.orval.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> > Instead of creating a new format, why don't we leverage an existing > format such as .zip files? I know these disk image files are already > small so compression isn't needed, but zip files also provide CRC > check (CRC32) per file Which means the simulator would have to regenerate the CRC over the entire file when performing a write - either after every series of write operations (which would be very slow), or at the end of the session which runs the risk of trashing the image if the disk does not get "closed" properly. >there is open/free code from infozip (http://www.info-zip.org/) to handle >zip files Which is bigger than my entire simulator source code. > An additional advantage is that people using > older software which does not support .zip can use any of the > unzipper's (including Windows XP built-in support) to extract the .h8d > file and use ithat file, the additional information can be read/used > by the user. Yup - using XP's built in ZIP makes a lot of sense, nobody needs a special tool (except to view whatever files you've buried in the image). But wait.... Doesn't XP also have built in support for the TYPE command I suggested would be usable with the simple comment format ... and that might even be supported for "people using older software" in a few systems that came before XP. Also, encouraging people to use "normal ZIPs" will result in compressed images - requiring that the simulators implement compression and decompression in order to use them - Slow and code-bloat. Under my suggested comment enhancement If for some reason you want to run an older version of the simulator which does not understand the comment, all you need to do is to strip everything up to the 0x1A (^Z) - the remainder of the image would be the same. >it supports comments, > but we can also provide special files inside the zip file for > description, images, etc. > Alsoe, once the format is defined, programs using it should ignore any > files it does not know about and be tolerate if any of the expected > support files are missing (short of the actual disk image of course). > This will allow us to update the format, if needed, and still be > backward and forward compatible between the files and any programs > that would use them. To me this seems like very much overkill and "complexity for the sake of complexity" (windows philosophy), since the problem at hand is simply to be able to record the diskette label along with the file. Do we really need a bunch of additional "files" to implement this? Unless I've missed your point and all you are suggesting is that we package the existing .H8D into a ZIP file with other descriptive information - to be manually unpacked before it's used. This is basically what we are doing now, but has the disadvantage it has to be unpacked to be used, which means that the image and description are no longer physically joined. Regards, -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Tue Mar 28 05:45:52 2006 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 05:45:52 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] H8D files and labels In-Reply-To: <20060328112407.RRLD8983.orval.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> Message-ID: <000201c6525d$2afcbb00$176fa8c0@obie> > > it would be nice to have a verify mode in IMD or an > > associated utility that could operate on an arbitrary list > of files to > > report back on the integrity of the included images. > > > It would be a very simple matter to write a listing utility > which would display the .H8D files (like a DIR), except that > it would verify the file comment/size, and would display the comment. > > Something like: > > DISK1 H8D 102400 05-21-04 8:30a OK (No comment) > DISK2 H8D 102427 05-21-04 8:30a OK Sample one-line comment > DISK3 H8D 102473 05-21-04 8:31a OK > This is a sample multi-line comment that > could be contained in a disk image. > That's exactly what I had in mind for the "listing utility" - and I agree that the elegance of being able to TYPE out a file for further info is pretty sweet. Obviously none of these file level suggestions would prevent packaging the image + additional info in a .zip file. Jack -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.2/294 - Release Date: 3/27/2006 -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dave06a at dunfield.com Tue Mar 28 06:05:38 2006 From: dave06a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:05:38 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H8D files and labels In-Reply-To: <000201c6525d$2afcbb00$176fa8c0@obie> References: <20060328112407.RRLD8983.orval.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> Message-ID: <20060328120629.MLCF29380.berlinr.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> > > It would be a very simple matter to write a listing utility > > which would display the .H8D files (like a DIR), except that > > it would verify the file comment/size, and would display the comment. > > > > Something like: > > > > DISK1 H8D 102400 05-21-04 8:30a OK (No comment) > > DISK2 H8D 102427 05-21-04 8:30a OK Sample one-line comment > > DISK3 H8D 102473 05-21-04 8:31a OK > > This is a sample multi-line comment that > > could be contained in a disk image. > > > > That's exactly what I had in mind for the "listing utility" - and I > agree that the elegance of being able to TYPE out a file for further > info is pretty sweet. Obviously none of these file level suggestions > would prevent packaging the image + additional info in a .zip file. I'm thinking of a single "H8D" utility which would: - Add a comment to an image - either from a text file or by interactive entry. - Strip the comment from an image (to produce an old-format file). - Replace/Edit the comment in an image. - Do the verified listng as described above. I looked into my simulator and discovered/recalled that the sim actually accepts an image which is any integral number of tracks (ie: any multiple of 2560). So the simple size > or == test isn't suitable. The scheme would still work, as long as your comment field is not exactly 2560 bytes in size (which is a pretty big comment). I could have the H8D command automatically pad with an extra space if the supplied data is exactly this size. Or we could differentiate the files with the extension: H8D - Old format H8 Hard-Sectored disk image with no comment H8H - New format H8 Hard-Sectored disk image with comment H8S - H8 Soft-Sectored disk image to be defined H8T - H8 Tape image Using the extension would have the advantage than when converting between old (non-comment) and new (comment) formats, we don't have filename conflicts (I can see comments getting stripped to accomodate the existing simulators and the new format files simply getting overwritten if the extensions remain the same). Regards, Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dave06a at dunfield.com Tue Mar 28 06:18:15 2006 From: dave06a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:18:15 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H8D files and labels In-Reply-To: <000201c6525d$2afcbb00$176fa8c0@obie> References: <20060328112407.RRLD8983.orval.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> Message-ID: <20060328121907.MOQY29380.berlinr.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> >I looked into my simulator and discovered/recalled that the sim >actually accepts an image which is any integral number of >tracks (ie: any multiple of 2560). > >So the simple size > or == test isn't suitable. > >The scheme would still work, as long as your comment field >is not exactly 2560 bytes in size (which is a pretty big comment). >I could have the H8D command automatically pad with an extra >space if the supplied data is exactly this size. Another approach, which is actually what ImageDisk does, would be to have the tool automatically generate the first line of the command in the format: H8D version.revision: dd/mm/yy hh:mm:ss (user supplied comment text follows as additional lines) Which provides the visual information that this is an H8D file, the version of the tool that created it (which allows for variations in the specicification), and the date/time that it was created. When loading this file, the first three characters must be "H8D" for it to be a new format image. If this is likely to occur in an old format image (I don't think so), you can further verify the 1st line by insuring that it contains only space, 0-9, '.', '/' and ':'. If the first three characters are "H8D". then you scan for the ^Z, record the offset, and validate the remainder of the file as an integral number of tracks. Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From davidwallace2000 at comcast.net Tue Mar 28 06:21:47 2006 From: davidwallace2000 at comcast.net (davidwallace2000 at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:21:47 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] H8D files and labels Message-ID: <032820061221.25421.44292A5B000B46740000634D2209229927CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> While my format won't support embedded JPEGs, I modestly remind the group that because I encode the binary data in octal (or hex) notation, semicolon-initiated comment lines can be inserted anywhere. Converting my images to h8d format means that there really is something that's "lost in the translation". :) -------------- Original message -------------- From: Jim Battle > Dave Dunfield wrote: > > I seem to have deleted it, but someone was just talking about keeping > > labels for H8D files... > > As I was passively following this thread, I was thinking it was crazy > that the sum total descriptive information of the disk images is > contained in the filenames. > > Metadata must be kept somehow, and making it part of the disk image > itself makes the most sense. In the virtual disk image formats I cooked > up for my Sol and Wang emulators, I have a fixed block to hold format > revision, disk format (# tracks, sides, density, etc), plus a fixed > amount of space for a label. I regret making the label fixed size, even > though it is much more than anybody has ever squeezed onto a real disk > label. > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From leeahart at earthlink.net Tue Mar 28 12:13:18 2006 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:13:18 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] CRT flashover [was Good news, bad news -- Robin succeeds] References: <007e01c651e2$ffc99ea0$6e01a8c0@barry> <001c01c6524c$121d9ac0$03fea8c0@mpxp731gb> Message-ID: <44297CBE.B3CAFBFB@earthlink.net> From: "Barry Watzman" >> Bottom line: The problem was caused by arcing inside the CRT from >> "crap" (could be microscopic, invisible crap) that was initially >> present inside a new CRT. Robin England wrote: > My father ran a consumer electronics repair company for many years > and they recognised it as the cause of problems when TV sets started > to use digital ICs. Inexplicable problems where serial EEPROMs would > suddenly lose configuration data etc... As far as I know the devices > were not permanently damaged in those cases though. Heath was actually rather brave (or ignorant) to put a computer in the same box with a CRT, without any of the usual shielding around the CRT. The CRT, flyback transformer, and associated high voltage wiring can cause corona, arcing, and electric fields that wreck havoc on sensitive circuitry. I remember using EPROMs in my H89 without bothering to put a sticker over the window. They mysteriously got erased. Running in the dark, I could see the dim blue glow and hear the faint hiss of corona around the flyback transformer, which is right next to the EPROMs. It turns out the corona was producing ultraviolet light, which was slowly erasing the EPROMs! The disk drives were the most sensitive to CRT noise. 80-track double-sided drives were the worst offenders. Heath finally came out with the H88-9 kit to totally enclose the disk drive in a steel box, which was carefully bypassed and grounded to keep CRT noise out of it. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From eric at rothfus.com Tue Mar 28 17:08:57 2006 From: eric at rothfus.com (Eric J. Rothfus) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:08:57 -0600 (CST) Subject: [sebhc] H8D files and labels In-Reply-To: <4428C651.6080305@pacbell.net> (message from Jim Battle on Mon, 27 Mar 2006 23:14:57 -0600) References: <20060328022509.GLJK29380.berlinr.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> <4428C651.6080305@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <1143585958@rothfus.com> > > ...discussion of file formats including H8D... > Sorry to weigh in late...I'm too busy playing with my new Altair :-). I'm moderately against creating a new image storage format. It seems that each vintage group eventually starts to re-invent image formats. And each crosses over the other inventing formats that are "exactly the same but different." In my work with the SVD, I find myself in the position to deal with many different formats and creating software that works with each. As such, I've developed rather rabid opinions about floppy image formats, with the basic guiding principal that the formats need to be useful for generations to come. I mean, if we're going to the trouble of "saving" the software/info that resides on our dying floppy disks, we should save it in a format that anticipates future needs. My credo for archival of floppy formats is pretty simple (and in priority order): Completeness - a floppy storage format for a particular target system/OS should completely describe all of the data required for that target. For example, a good floppy format for H8/9 should include the volume number of the disk. As another example, often in the TRS-80 world copy-protected disks included weird sector/track numbers; a good floppy format should include that information. As a counter example, the H8D format is simply a dump of the sectors of a floppy. It is assumed that they are dumped in order, and that the sector/track/volume numbers for the image are easily discernable. Although this works mostly, it forces us to look into the data on the image to discover important information like the volume number. The H8D format is bad for CP/M images because the volume number can't be easily found. If you take a look at the "other" H8/9 format with the extension of .h17 (hereby called the H17 format) you'll see a more "complete" format. It describes the volume number as well as sector and track numbers. It includes, as well, a "Description" field which is equivalent to the comment field people have been asking for. Granted, you can go overboard. There is really no reason to capture the individual flux transitions of a floppy image, for example. Self-Descriptive - an issue that I have smashed into over and over in in working with the SVD, is that many file formats cannot be identified uniquely regarding the system they target. That is, I can't necessarily tell the difference between an H8D and the TRS-80 format JV1. Fortunately, the files themselves are often named to identify them, like the file "HDOS.h17". Though you can't count on that. Many groups like to name their floppy images "blah.dsk" - which makes it often impossible to figure out the target system for a floppy image. This issue is closely linked to the "completeness" issue above. In almost all cases, you can't be fully "complete" and you need some target information in order to "fill in the gaps" when using an image. For example, even with the H17 format the file doesn't describe that the original media was hard-sectored. So if you wanted to faithfully reproduce the "HDOS.h17" disk, you have to KNOW that it was on hard-sectored media using the H8/9 sector format. Size - many people get rather religious about the size of image file, and that difference can be rather big. For example, an image in H8D may be 100k bytes while the same H17 image may be over 400k. Although this is indeed an issue, it is an issue that continues to get less important as storage becomes cheaper and cheaper and speeds faster and faster. I will always prefer an image format that is more complete or descriptive than one that is smaller. The above list was in priority order for me. So I could really care less about size...or maybe more accurately, it can be dealt with in other ways than to trade off completeness for size (for example). So to bring this back to the topic at hand. Personally, I'd be for reverting the SEBHC collection back to H17 format as opposed to expanding the H8D format. Or maybe a common format could be used. For size concerns, while they still exist at this level, "zipping" of the files would be easy. We're not the only ones concerned with floppy image formats. Sellam has written his essay on the matter too: http://www.vintage.org/content.php?id=005 Eric -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From sp11 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 28 16:55:18 2006 From: sp11 at hotmail.com (Steven Parker) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 22:55:18 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] NOGDS / board photos In-Reply-To: <032720061700.19265.44281A37000C08EB00004B412207300793CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> Message-ID: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 22:55:18 GMT >Ask and ye shall receive. (I hope NOGDS won't mind!) They wouldn't dare. :-) The HA-8-2 was based on a breadboard I built up in the New Orleans store they saw during a visit. But my demo program was using it to draw vector graphics on an oscilloscope screen (X and Y position instead of left and right audio). There's an image of that original demo breadboard in the photo section of the archive. There's also photos of the CPU and memory board from "H8 number one". I'm hoping to get around to making up a page of descriptive text about that unit and the photos sometime... -- Steven -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From davidwallace2000 at comcast.net Tue Mar 28 18:47:47 2006 From: davidwallace2000 at comcast.net (davidwallace2000 at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 00:47:47 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] NOGDS / board photos Message-ID: <032920060047.13640.4429D9330006209D000035482200761438CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> Aha! So YOU'RE the reason I wasted so many hours transcribing sheet music into ascii! (Somewhere around here I have about 18 hours of play-time worth of music transcribed for the HA8-2. Mostly Bach. I also wrote an interpreter that could read the files and output MIDI.) -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Steven Parker" > >Ask and ye shall receive. (I hope NOGDS won't mind!) > > They wouldn't dare. :-) The HA-8-2 was based on a breadboard I built up in > the New Orleans store they saw during a visit. But my demo program was > using it to draw vector graphics on an oscilloscope screen (X and Y position > instead of left and right audio). > > There's an image of that original demo breadboard in the photo section of > the archive. There's also photos of the CPU and memory board from "H8 > number one". I'm hoping to get around to making up a page of descriptive > text about that unit and the photos sometime... > > -- Steven > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave06a at dunfield.com Tue Mar 28 20:21:11 2006 From: dave06a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:21:11 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H8D files and labels In-Reply-To: <1143585958@rothfus.com> References: <4428C651.6080305@pacbell.net> (message from Jim Battle on Mon, 27 Mar 2006 23:14:57 -0600) Message-ID: <20060329022202.DJCU8983.orval.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> This is really getting out of hand - I started this in response to someone discussing how they would keep the labels for the simulator images. I proposed a VERY SIMPLE modification to the format that I would be willing to make to my simulator which would allow it to accept an optional comment .... But all I have gotten in return is how we really should change everything completely. Ok --- I GET IT --- Nobody likes the idea. > I'm moderately against creating a new image storage format. It seems > that each vintage group eventually starts to re-invent image formats. > And each crosses over the other inventing formats that are "exactly > the same but different." You can't stop people from doing their own thing - especially if the alternatives are completely at odds with your way of thinking (like storing binary sector data in octal-ASCII). So I don't have a problem with this. What I do have a problem with is people developing their own formats and NOT documenting them. Anyone who's ever had a TeleDisk image that refused to turn itself back into a physical diskette knows what I am talking about... If I have decent documentation on how the image is formatted, I can explore whatever means I find necessary to recreate a disk ... > In my work with the SVD, I find myself in the position to deal with > many different formats and creating software that works with each. As > such, I've developed rather rabid opinions about floppy image formats, > with the basic guiding principal that the formats need to be useful > for generations to come. I mean, if we're going to the trouble of > "saving" the software/info that resides on our dying floppy disks, we > should save it in a format that anticipates future needs. You can't anticipate every future need - so you develop a format which works for what you can anticipate - often this is biased by the intended use of the image. In my work with ImageDisk, CPT, NST, RT and all the other disk transfer utilities I have developed, I have formed a number of different formats which best (or at least adaquately) serve the purpose for which they were intended. Take ImageDisk for example - it is designed to replace TeleDisk (with a documented format), and attempts to replicate EXACTLY the soft- sector disk that was originally recorded - to this end, It records the exact sector numbering and ordering, normal/deleted address marks, maps for cylinder and head numbering to accomodate non-standard formats, and quite a bit more - in short, I record everything I can determine about the disk from the PC's FDC in the image file. I also have a clear file identified with the IMD version and creation timestamp, and an unlimited size comment field. This is probably pretty close to what you describe... But I did not implement H8D with these goals. I don't know who first make these images, however I implemented the raw binary image for my H8 simulator, because I wanted to experience running HDOS - I have still not actually seen a physical H17 controller. The images I found in the SEBHC archive were in the format we now call H8D, and they were relatively easy to get working, so I used them "as is". > My credo for archival of floppy formats is pretty simple (and in > priority order): > > Completeness - a floppy storage format for a particular target > system/OS should completely describe all of the data required > for that target. For example, a good floppy format for H8/9 > should include the volume number of the disk. As another > example, often in the TRS-80 world copy-protected disks > included weird sector/track numbers; a good floppy format > should include that information. > > As a counter example, the H8D format is simply a dump of the > sectors of a floppy. It is assumed that they are dumped in > order, and that the sector/track/volume numbers for the image > are easily discernable. Although this works mostly, it forces > us to look into the data on the image to discover important > information like the volume number. The H8D format is bad for > CP/M images because the volume number can't be easily found. As noted above, the .H8D images I obtained were already in this format, and having experience with NorthStar and not H17, I did not know about the header bytes in the sectors until I was so far into it that I didn't bother to change it. It I were implementing it from scratch, I would probably have added the sector header information, but I would still have written the image in linear ordering - thats because I implemented the disk image for use with a simulator, and this makes it very easy to "seek" to a particular track and sector. I do not see H8D as being the means to archive "exact" copies of a disk - but it works pretty well for a simulator, and DOES preserve the content of the disk very well. I see no reason to physically interleave a simulator disk image, as interleave is a physical ordering which will not affect the logical layout of the disk (which is all the simulator sees). > If you take a look at the "other" H8/9 format with the > extension of .h17 (hereby called the H17 format) you'll see a > more "complete" format. It describes the volume number as > well as sector and track numbers. It includes, as well, a > "Description" field which is equivalent to the comment field > people have been asking for. > Granted, you can go overboard. There is really no reason to > capture the individual flux transitions of a floppy image, > for example. There is if you want to reproduce "exact" copies of the disk - thats my whole point... You have to pick a boundary between preserving "nothiing" and preserving "everything" - the exact position of that boundary will vary depending on your intended use for the image format. > Self-Descriptive - an issue that I have smashed into over and over in > in working with the SVD, is that many file formats cannot be > identified uniquely regarding the system they target. That > is, I can't necessarily tell the difference between an H8D and > the TRS-80 format JV1. Fortunately, the files themselves are > often named to identify them, like the file "HDOS.h17". > Though you can't count on that. Many groups like to name > their floppy images "blah.dsk" - which makes it often > impossible to figure out the target system for a floppy image. The H8D header (like the IMD header) that I proposed for the (slightly) expanded format would correct this. > This issue is closely linked to the "completeness" issue > above. In almost all cases, you can't be fully "complete" and > you need some target information in order to "fill in the > gaps" when using an image. For example, even with the H17 > format the file doesn't describe that the original media was > hard-sectored. So if you wanted to faithfully reproduce the > "HDOS.h17" disk, you have to KNOW that it was on hard-sectored > media using the H8/9 sector format. This isn't a problem for me - the simulator for which I implemented H8D does not deal with soft-sectored. This is my way of saying "this is a SIMPLE format I implemented to create a virtual H17 in my simulator" - Yes, you can rename a .XLS file to .H8D and "stuff it in the drive", just like you can put a NorthStar disk into your H8 - and you should accept similar results - the real H8 wouldn't say "hey - thats on Osborne disk" - It simply wouldn't boot. However, having said that - the unlimited size comment that I proposed to be added to the H8D format would make it possible to describe the content of the disk image and the media type in excrutiating detail - you can even mention the color if you like. > Size - many people get rather religious about the size of image file, > and that difference can be rather big. For example, an image > in H8D may be 100k bytes while the same H17 image may be over > 400k. Although this is indeed an issue, it is an issue that > continues to get less important as storage becomes cheaper and > cheaper and speeds faster and faster. I will always prefer an > image format that is more complete or descriptive than one > that is smaller. > > The above list was in priority order for me. So I could really care > less about size...or maybe more accurately, it can be dealt with in > other ways than to trade off completeness for size (for example). Size matters if you are on dial-up (I am). Size matters when you want to put a large collection of images on CD. Size/speed matters when the simulator has to encode/decode sectors in real-time when it could have just loaded/stored the binary image. I'm not against justified overhead, and I agree that the H8D format could use the few extra sector-header bytes to make it more flexible, however I simply cannot see why 3-4 times the entire image file size would be justified. > So to bring this back to the topic at hand. Personally, I'd be for > reverting the SEBHC collection back to H17 format as opposed to > expanding the H8D format. Or maybe a common format could be used. > For size concerns, while they still exist at this level, "zipping" > of the files would be easy. Well ... I have no interested in implementing .H17 - Encoding sectors in ASCII is "just plain wrong" to my way of thinking. But I'm not overly attached to the current H8D either - all I contributed was the extension name. You can encode images in whatever format you wish, and in whatever code you wish - you can use EBCDIC, BAUDOT or Selectic tilt/rotate codes for all I care - as long as you document it, I can extract and convert it if necessary - thats all I really care about. Having the ability to marry the description to the disk image would have been convienent - but enough already - it's clear that this is not what the group wants, so I will withdraw the suggestion. regards, Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From eric at rothfus.com Tue Mar 28 22:53:27 2006 From: eric at rothfus.com (Eric J. Rothfus) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 22:53:27 -0600 (CST) Subject: [sebhc] H8D files and labels In-Reply-To: <20060329022202.DJCU8983.orval.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> (dave06a@dunfield.com) References: <4428C651.6080305@pacbell.net> (message from Jim Battle on Mon, 27 Mar 2006 23:14:57 -0600) <20060329022202.DJCU8983.orval.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> Message-ID: <1143567240@rothfus.com> > Ok --- I GET IT --- Nobody likes the idea. :-) Sorry it wasn't my intent to pile on to any negative type responses. Floppy formats is one of the soap-boxes I get up upon every now and then. > You can't stop people from doing their own thing - especially if the > alternatives are completely at odds with your way of thinking (like > storing binary sector data in octal-ASCII). So I don't have a problem > with this. Heck no, this is just a hobby...definitely do what you want! That's what makes this whole thing fun. My intent was just to chime in with an opinion, and if I can sway people one way or the other, then mission accomplished. If not, oh well, I'll continue to do my thing. > What I do have a problem with is people developing their own > formats and NOT documenting them. Anyone who's ever had a > TeleDisk image that refused to turn itself back into a physical > diskette knows what I am talking about... If I have decent > documentation on how the image is formatted, I can explore > whatever means I find necessary to recreate a disk ... Amen. > Take ImageDisk for example - it is designed to replace TeleDisk (with > a documented format), and attempts to replicate EXACTLY the soft- > sector disk that was originally recorded - to this end, It records the > exact sector numbering and ordering, normal/deleted address marks, > maps for cylinder and head numbering to accomodate non-standard > formats, and quite a bit more - in short, I record everything I can > determine about the disk from the PC's FDC in the image file. I also > have a clear file identified with the IMD version and creation timestamp, > and an unlimited size comment field. > > This is probably pretty close to what you describe... Now you're talking! Could I get the doc for the Imagedisk format please? I'd like to teach the SVD tools to use the format. Off-list would make sense. > ...thats my whole point... You have to pick a boundary between > preserving "nothiing" and preserving "everything" - the exact > position of that boundary will vary depending on your intended > use for the image format. Well put...you have to pick that boundary. And that's where most of the discussion centers around. Different hardware causes that boundary to move. Trying to support images with copy protection for machines like the TRS-80 and Apple ][ demands a different level of image replication than does a simple H8/9 or N* disk. Anyway, I really don't want to belabor the point any longer. You and I agree on the most important point: an image format s*cks if it isn't documented, period. I'll remain in search of a "common image format" or a least a family of image formats (hopefully small number) that will stand the test of time, preserving these old disks and their ideosyncrasies upon which the hardware depended. > Having the ability to marry the description to the disk image would > have been convienent - but enough already - it's clear that this is > not what the group wants, so I will withdraw the suggestion. It's still not too late to implement the H17 format. :-) Eric -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From sp11 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 28 23:42:19 2006 From: sp11 at hotmail.com (Steven Parker) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 05:42:19 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] RE: H8D files and labels In-Reply-To: <20060328121907.MOQY29380.berlinr.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> Message-ID: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 05:42:19 GMT A few quick comments: The "h8d" raw data format provides for very concise storage, the physical disk represented is easily inferred from the file size, and the header is easily reconstructed from the sector position. In the case of HDOS, a volume number is also needed but the original one can be found on the "label" sector (the 10th one), or you may even prefer to recreate the disk with a different one to be sure it is unique in your collection. I think CP/M ignores it but in any case it's always zero for CP/M. Information about most disks is found in the documentation (HUG/Heath/etc). If not, it would be easy enough to place additional info in a file with the same name but a "txt" extension. That actually makes more sense to me anyway because the data would be used by a process (simulator, disk creator) but the info would be read by a human. HDOS h8d's can be listed with the command line utility "hdir" available in the archive, or with the same "fstool" utility that converts formats. -- Steven -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From rgroh at swbell.net Tue Mar 28 23:47:46 2006 From: rgroh at swbell.net (Bob And Bettina Groh) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 23:47:46 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] More comments on Heath history - CRT flashover et al In-Reply-To: <44297CBE.B3CAFBFB@earthlink.net> References: <007e01c651e2$ffc99ea0$6e01a8c0@barry> <001c01c6524c$121d9ac0$03fea8c0@mpxp731gb> <44297CBE.B3CAFBFB@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <442A1F82.4040004@swbell.net> To add to this story a bit, I had just started working (engineer in the Ham Radio department) at Heathkit in the summer of 1977 and purchased one of the very first H-89s off the production line. After waiting for what seemed like a jillion years (actually about 3 or 4 weeks), they started shipping them and I picked mine up at the store at the main plant in St. Joseph. But it didn't have a disk drive (i.e. it was effectively an H-88 with only a tape interface) because there was some sort of a problem involving the disk drives and they were holding them until the problem was solved. After several weeks (?? not sure how long it took but I did learn to really, really appreciate disk drives after coping with a cassette tape drive), the mod kit and the drives were finally released. It seemed that, as Lee commented, the disk drives (only 40-track, SS SD) were being corrupted by electrical noise from teh HV, CRT, et al. The solution was a mu-metal shield. Didn't know about the 80-track problem but I ran DS DD drives in mine with nothing but that mu-metal shield. Memories! Bob Groh Heathkit Engineer 1977 to 1981 Lee Hart wrote: > > >Heath was actually rather brave (or ignorant) to put a computer in the >same box with a CRT, without any of the usual shielding around the CRT. >The CRT, flyback transformer, and associated high voltage wiring can >cause corona, arcing, and electric fields that wreck havoc on sensitive >circuitry. > >The disk drives were the most sensitive to CRT noise. 80-track >double-sided drives were the worst offenders. Heath finally came out >with the H88-9 kit to totally enclose the disk drive in a steel box, >which was carefully bypassed and grounded to keep CRT noise out of it. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.england at dial.pipex.com Wed Mar 29 02:32:37 2006 From: robin.england at dial.pipex.com (Robin England) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 09:32:37 +0100 Subject: [sebhc] RE: H8D files and labels Message-ID: <009d01c6530b$562f8ba0$03fea8c0@mpxp731gb> I'd also like to mention that using the long filenames for disk images can cause problems for some users. For example, using a utility such as Dwight's image transfer program under DOS means that each image has to be renamed to the 8.3 naming convention before use, as such losing the description along the way. My suggestion would be that for archiving images we instead adopt filenames such as DISKxxxx.H8D and have an accompanying text file of the same name (of course .TXT extension) containing a full description of the disk. You could even have DISKxxxx.JPG if you have a picture of the disk label. There is then no doubt about what the accompanying disk image contains and the file can be used as-is for most applications. If we are likely to need to archive more than 10,000 disk images, the xxxx in the name could of course be alpha-numeric. I used this approach when recently converting all my audio cassettes to .MP3 format. Now I have CASxxxxx.MP3, CASxxxxx.TXT and even CASxxxxx.JPG which means I can even see what the cassette in question looked like... I may be missing something but I'm not too sure why (other than perhaps for already established emulators) it's necessary to stuff all the extra information about the image into the actual image file anyway... Robin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave06a at dunfield.com Wed Mar 29 05:39:49 2006 From: dave06a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 06:39:49 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H8D files and labels In-Reply-To: <1143567240@rothfus.com> References: <20060329022202.DJCU8983.orval.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> (dave06a@dunfield.com) Message-ID: <20060329114042.DGFP29380.berlinr.sprint.ca@dunfield.com> > > Take ImageDisk for example - it is designed to replace TeleDisk (with > > a documented format), and attempts to replicate EXACTLY the soft- > > sector disk that was originally recorded - to this end, It records the > > exact sector numbering and ordering, normal/deleted address marks, > > maps for cylinder and head numbering to accomodate non-standard > > formats, and quite a bit more - in short, I record everything I can > > determine about the disk from the PC's FDC in the image file. I also > > have a clear file identified with the IMD version and creation timestamp, > > and an unlimited size comment field. > > > > This is probably pretty close to what you describe... > > Now you're talking! Could I get the doc for the Imagedisk format > please? I'd like to teach the SVD tools to use the format. Off-list > would make sense. I just posted an updated to ImageDisk (1.12) to my site. The image format is documented both in the documenation (TXT) file, and in the on-line help. Go to: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html Near the bottom of the main page, you will find a link called "Disks/Software images". Select it, and ImageDisk is at the very top of the selections offered for download. > I'll remain in search of a "common image format" or a least a > family of image formats (hopefully small number) that will stand > the test of time, preserving these old disks and their > ideosyncrasies upon which the hardware depended. As noted in my previous post - I don't think you will find one general purpose image format which suits everything. For two main reasons: 1) Physical medium differs The charactistics of the medium differ greatly, and you may find "new" formats which don't fit your previous general view. For example, NorthStar hard-sectored disks have essentially no header (sector data only). H17 disks have a small header, which include position and volume id. IBM format soft-sector has a different header with different information (and no volume ID). Apple disks are again completely different. And there are more (and weirder disks out there). 2) Intended purpose A "archival format" would try and replicate the content of the disk exactly - this would include details of interleave, and overhead bytes to describe details of the format down to the sector level, so that odd formatted disks can be preserved and recreated. If it is a "general" format, it would dedicate some overhead to describing the fields themselves. It would also have less concern that the image itself could be treated as a disk, so it might compress "all same" sectors etc. (which makes it tough to directly write new sector information into that sector). A "working format" image intented for use under a simulator might be more concerned about a layout which makes logical sense for seeking and reading tracks/sectors within the disk, and would make sure that the sectors are fixed-size so that they can be updated "on the fly". If the simulator for which it was created does not support oddly formatted disks, details required to record non-standard formatting may be ommitted - Like H8D, it might rely on the simulator to "know" some details about the disk format. So, I think one needs to draw a line between archival storage and useful storage. Ideally, we would define not so much a disk image format, but an extemsible specification for storing the data for archive purposes, which would be expanded as needed when new media types are added. If everyone could agree on such a thing (unlikely), then the implementors of the individual "useful" storage formats could provide tools to interpret their images according that specification and possibly translate to and from a "universal format" (If such a thing can be created). In the meantime, I am happy if people just document their image formats so I can access the content if needed. Regards, Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From davidwallace2000 at comcast.net Wed Mar 29 08:45:25 2006 From: davidwallace2000 at comcast.net (davidwallace2000 at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:45:25 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] Diskette format for my / Dave Shaw's simulators Message-ID: <032920061445.11014.442A9D850005E24B00002B062200761394CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> See http://davidwallace2000.home.comcast.net/h8/notes.htm#media_image_file And yes, it's an ascii representation rather than binary. And yes some of the metadata is also available by groveling thtough sector ten. But it also is a format I found easy to transmit over a Telnet link from a program running on my H8 to my PC. Which is why I can supply these disk images in the first place. (It takes about 15 minutes to send the disk image -- at 9600 baud, the link can send about one sector per second, theoretically; actually it seems to take a lot longer -- between the machines.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at rothfus.com Wed Mar 29 10:16:14 2006 From: eric at rothfus.com (Eric J. Rothfus) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:16:14 -0600 (CST) Subject: [sebhc] Diskette format for my / Dave Shaw's simulators In-Reply-To: <032920061445.11014.442A9D850005E24B00002B062200761394CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> (davidwallace2000@comcast.net) References: <032920061445.11014.442A9D850005E24B00002B062200761394CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1143646861@rothfus.com> > See http://davidwallace2000.home.comcast.net/h8/notes.htm#media_image_file Thanks for the link. That's the H17 format that I was referring to in my previous post. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From wm65805 at hotmail.com Wed Mar 29 13:47:25 2006 From: wm65805 at hotmail.com (bill malcolm) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 13:47:25 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Compact Flash Card Project for Heathkit? References: <000001c65218$463bba50$176fa8c0@obie> Message-ID: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 19:52:49 +0000 http://dreher.net/?s=projects/CFforAppleII&c=projects/CFforAppleII/main.php I knew of this Project and am considering using one of my Apple 3's as server for my H-89 via the H-67 card Any ideas or suggestions ? bill .. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Thu Mar 30 01:26:25 2006 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 01:26:25 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Re: Re-creating actual floppies from archive References: <003401c6519a$f0a97a50$03fea8c0@mpxp731gb> Message-ID: <442B8821.6B7D8F6B@earthlink.net> Robin England wrote: > The cause of the lack of serial comms was actually that the 8250 > itself was faulty. Talk about bad luck; I had originally discounted > the serial card having a hardware fault because I tried swapped > serial cards between my two H89s and this had not fixed the fault. > As it turns out, BOTH the serial cards had duff 8250s in the LP > port circuit! By any chance, were the serial cards that held these 8250's the original H89 H88-3 cards? The original cards had a timing problem; they worked with old parts, but then National "improved" the 8250 design to be faster, fix some bugs, etc. The newer chips didn't work reliably in the old card. Heath added a 74LS74 flip-flop to the newer H89-A cards to fix the timing problem. The H88-3A cards are recognizable because they have large copper ground plane areas, and LC filters on all the serial I/O pins. Or, were you running your H89 at 4 MHz? You also needed this 74LS74 circuit if you tried to run at 4 MHz. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dave06a at dunfield.com Thu Mar 30 11:02:49 2006 From: dave06a at dunfield.com (dave06a at dunfield.com) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 12:02:49 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H17 system operations In-Reply-To: <032920061445.11014.442A9D850005E24B00002B062200761394CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> Message-ID: <200603301703.k2UH2wvt007009@mail4.magma.ca> All this talk of the simulator and disk images has me looking at my H17 simulation again. I've been working on getting the timing "real" enough that you can INIT a disk. I have it working much more than before, however I have run into a couple of oddities that perhaps someone can provide some insight into: - Note: I'm testing with HDOS 1.6 (the one from the archive) 1) If I specify a volume ID of 255, the INIT works perfectly. It completes, and I can mount the disk and write/read files to it. If I specify any other volume ID, it goes all the way to the bad sector entry, and when I hit RETURN to proceed, it reports "Can't read this disk". The disk image that is created also cannot be mounted. 2) I can't SYSGEN a disk. Not just the disk I INITed, I can't sysgen to the original HDOS disk image either. I would assume that SYSGEN just reads data off the source disk and writes to the dest disk - I know these operations work, as I can INIT a disk, I can boot the system disk, I can run programs, and I can save/old BASIC program just fine. It seems that SYSGEN is not accessing the disk by the standard read/write calls? Or is doing something else "special"? Ring any bells? Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From davidwallace2000 at comcast.net Thu Mar 30 11:47:09 2006 From: davidwallace2000 at comcast.net (davidwallace2000 at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 17:47:09 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] H17 info Message-ID: <033020061747.15528.442C199D0005FBB100003CA82200761394CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> See http://davidwallace2000.home.comcast.net/h8/project8080_archive/design_h17.html#label The volume number must be written to each sector (except as noted). This also documents the label format and what SYSGEN does that's "special" (e.g.: it writes contiguous sectors). Thanks be to Dave Shaw for researching this and writing it all down. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave06a at dunfield.com Thu Mar 30 12:33:06 2006 From: dave06a at dunfield.com (dave06a at dunfield.com) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 13:33:06 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H17 info In-Reply-To: <033020061747.15528.442C199D0005FBB100003CA82200761394CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> Message-ID: <200603301833.k2UIXFww017540@mail3.magma.ca> > See http://davidwallace2000.home.comcast.net/h8/project8080_archive/design_h17.html#label > > The volume number must be written to each sector (except as noted). This also documents the label format and what SYSGEN does that's "special" (e.g.: it writes contiguous sectors). > > Thanks be to Dave Shaw for researching this and writing it all down. Thanks David! That was exactly the reminder I needed. Although I knew this (after all, my disk emulation wouldn't work at all without it), I missed one subtlety... My simulator uses the very basic H8D format - this format does not store the sector headers. So when I mount the disk, I read sector 9 and retrieve the VOLID, which I use when emulating the headers for tracks 1+ (Track0 always return VOLID 0). The problem is obvious once I thought about it - 255 is the VOLID used on the distribution HDOS disk - so when I boot it, the simulator stores 255 as the VOLID. When INIT writes the disk, it expects the VOLID on the disk to match what it put in the INIT, but the simulator has not physically remounted the disk between when it was written (formatted if you will) with new headers (by INIT) and INIT tries to read it - so it still emulates the original VOLID of 255. This is why 255 worked - It just happened to match what I booted. Any other VOLID would not match. The solution is to have the simulator update it's recorded VOLID for the disk when a non-Track zero sector is written with a different VOLID. The reason SYSGEN didn't work is because It won't accept the same VOLID for source and destination (It thinks you put the source back in). Once I was able to INIT a disk with a different VOLID from the distribution disk, I could SYSGEN it with no problem! Regards, Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Vintage computing equipment collector. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Thu Mar 30 14:49:23 2006 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 15:49:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: [sebhc] Re: Re-creating actual floppies from archive Message-ID: <200603302049.PAA20078@ss10.danlan.com> |By any chance, were the serial cards that held these 8250's the original |H89 H88-3 cards? The original cards had a timing problem; they worked |with old parts, but then National "improved" the 8250 design to be |faster, fix some bugs, etc. The newer chips didn't work reliably in the |old card. Did this happen with the H8's serial card as well? Is a diagram of the change available? Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Thu Mar 30 15:05:53 2006 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 15:05:53 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Re: Re-creating actual floppies from archive References: <200603302049.PAA20078@ss10.danlan.com> Message-ID: <442C4831.E0801A91@earthlink.net> >> The original cards had a timing problem; they worked with old parts, >> but then National "improved" the 8250... The newer chips didn't work >> reliably in the old card. Dan Lanciani wrote: > Did this happen with the H8's serial card as well? Probably, but the "new" 8250's didn't exist when the H8 was built so it was never a problem. > Is a diagram of the change available? Yes, it's on the H89-A schematics. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Fri Mar 31 14:56:07 2006 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:56:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: [sebhc] Re: Re-creating actual floppies from archive Message-ID: <200603312056.PAA00644@ss10.danlan.com> |>> The original cards had a timing problem; they worked with old parts, |>> but then National "improved" the 8250... The newer chips didn't work |>> reliably in the old card. | |Dan Lanciani wrote: |> Did this happen with the H8's serial card as well? | |Probably, but the "new" 8250's didn't exist when the H8 was built so it |was never a problem. Hmm. But I bought the H8-4 a long time after I bought the H-8. (Actually, I don't think the H8-4 was available initially.) So had H8-4 production stopped before any of the "new" 8250s could have been shipped? It seems too much of a conicidence that I had 3 out of 4 bad 8250s for some other random reson(s)... Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List