From peter59 at sbcglobal.net Wed Aug 4 14:05:08 2004 From: peter59 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Shkabara) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:05:08 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] document format Message-ID: <200408041905.i74J4ke0037585@gatekeeper.evocative.com> by smtp814.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Aug 2004 19:04:45 -0000 It has been so long that I am forgetting much of the things that used to be simple. Here is the top part of one of my documents: ========================== .. 6MHz instructions .. Standard instruction format for 8.5 by 5.5 booklets .. Uses pica type real size .. by Peter Shkabara 7-10-87 .po 2 .lm 1 .rm 54 .mt 5 .mb 22 .pl 66 .cw 10 .uj on .hm 2 .fm 2 ========================== Is this part of a WordStar or a WordPerfect file? I am trying to reproduce my instruction booklets in order to post them, but keep running into memory failures - mine, not the computer's ;) Thanks, Peter ----------------------------------------------------------- peter59 at sbcglobal.net - http://www.geocities.com/anapro.geo/ From paulpenn at knology.net Wed Aug 4 15:14:29 2004 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul Pennington) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 16:14:29 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] document format References: <200408041905.i74J4ke0037585@gatekeeper.evocative.com> Message-ID: <013d01c47a5f$a5d814a0$6401a8c0@knology.net> Peter; Definitely WordStar. I've added the explanations. ========================== > .. 6MHz instructions > .. Standard instruction format for 8.5 by 5.5 booklets > .. Uses pica type real size > .. by Peter Shkabara 7-10-87 > .po 2 page offset > .lm 1 left margin > .rm 54 right margin > .mt 5 top margin > .mb 22 bottom margin > .pl 66 page length > .cw 10 character width > .uj on microspace justification > .hm 2 header margin > .fm 2 footer margin I don't suppose I'll ever forget those. Now, what was it I had for breakfast? Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Aug 4 15:46:23 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:46:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] document format Message-ID: <200408042046.NAA28698@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I have a program for the H89 called TEXT that was a printer formatter. These look like the same codes it uses but it has been a long time since I used it. It may not be from any specific word processor. Some people actually edited this kind of stuff by hand when creating manuals. Also look at the program on the web page called PIE. It seems like this had some of these formatting function built in. Dwight >From: "Peter Shkabara" >> >It has been so long that I am forgetting much of the things that used to be >simple. Here is the top part of one of my documents: >========================== >.. 6MHz instructions >.. Standard instruction format for 8.5 by 5.5 booklets >.. Uses pica type real size >.. by Peter Shkabara 7-10-87 >.po 2 >.lm 1 >.rm 54 >.mt 5 >.mb 22 >.pl 66 >.cw 10 >.uj on >.hm 2 >.fm 2 >========================== >Is this part of a WordStar or a WordPerfect file? I am trying to reproduce >my instruction booklets in order to post them, but keep running into memory >failures - mine, not the computer's ;) > >Thanks, > >Peter >----------------------------------------------------------- >peter59 at sbcglobal.net - http://www.geocities.com/anapro.geo/ -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From rgroh at swbell.net Wed Aug 4 23:07:34 2004 From: rgroh at swbell.net (Bob And Bettina Groh) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 23:07:34 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] document format References: <200408042046.NAA28698@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <4111B286.6060801@swbell.net> Yep, Peter's little file was for one of the original text editors. My memory is too ancient to identify which one but the commands are pretty self explanatory, e.g. two periods starting in left hand column is a comment, a period followed by 2 or more characters is a formatting command, e.g. .rm xx is (probably) "set right margin to xx spaces", etc. Oh, boy, the good old days. Bob Groh Heathkit Engineer 1977 to 1981 Early Heathkit computer user (had one of the very first H-89's that shipped!) Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >Hi > I have a program for the H89 called TEXT that was a >printer formatter. These look like the same codes it uses >but it has been a long time since I used it. It may >not be from any specific word processor. Some people >actually edited this kind of stuff by hand when creating >manuals. Also look at the program on the web page called >PIE. It seems like this had some of these formatting >function built in. >Dwight > > >>From: "Peter Shkabara" >> >>It has been so long that I am forgetting much of the things that used to be >>simple. Here is the top part of one of my documents: >>========================== >>.. 6MHz instructions >>.. Standard instruction format for 8.5 by 5.5 booklets >>.. Uses pica type real size >>.. by Peter Shkabara 7-10-87 >>.po 2 >>.lm 1 >>.rm 54 >>.mt 5 >>.mb 22 >>.pl 66 >>.cw 10 >>.uj on >>.hm 2 >>.fm 2 >>========================== >>Is this part of a WordStar or a WordPerfect file? I am trying to reproduce >>my instruction booklets in order to post them, but keep running into memory >>failures - mine, not the computer's ;) >> >>Thanks, >> >>Peter >>----------------------------------------------------------- >>peter59 at sbcglobal.net - http://www.geocities.com/anapro.geo/ >> > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > From peter59 at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 5 09:29:42 2004 From: peter59 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Shkabara) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 07:29:42 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] document format In-Reply-To: <013d01c47a5f$a5d814a0$6401a8c0@knology.net> Message-ID: <200408051429.i75ETfht058397@gatekeeper.evocative.com> by smtp811.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Aug 2004 14:29:40 -0000 Thank you to all that responded. Paul was right; it was a WordStar file. The problem now is that the version is was created on (CP/M) is a bit different (lacks a binary header) than the MS-DOS version. As a result, my DataViz Conversions Plus program does not recognize it as WordStar format unless I add the binary header. Fortunately, QuickView Plus that I also have does recognize it and will allow me to copy and paste the text without losing too much of the formatting. The conclusion is that I can perform the conversions of my documents, but it will have to wait till I complete my upcoming move. We are moving from the foothills of the Sierra Nevada (near Sonora, CA) to Fortuna, CA near Eureka. Peter ----------------------------------------------------------- peter59 at sbcglobal.net - http://www.geocities.com/anapro.geo/ > Definitely WordStar. I've added the explanations. >========================== > .. 6MHz instructions > .. Standard instruction format for 8.5 by 5.5 booklets > .. Uses pica type real size > .. by Peter Shkabara 7-10-87 -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com Thu Aug 12 11:23:55 2004 From: patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com (Patrick/VCM SysOp) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:23:55 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] At long last... Media has arrived! Message-ID: <000001c48088$c3750430$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> Gents, After a long wait, a mixup with the vendor, and another long wait, the hard and soft-sectored media (and a cache of jackets) has arrived. More to follow as I get everything unpacked... Patrick -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlangr at verizon.net Sun Aug 15 17:49:12 2004 From: garlangr at verizon.net (Mark Garlanger) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 17:49:12 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Floppy Drive questions. Message-ID: <00b701c4831a$160bb1b0$a301010a@BUSTER> I will shortly be getting an H89 with a hard-sector controller. It going to have the standard 100K drive in it. I have an external H77 case and trying to see what kind of drives I could get to put in it. I hope to be getting a soft-sector controller also. Based on the mounting holes in the H77, it appears that I will be able to put 4 half-height drives in it. I'm thinking, I should have one or two more hard-sectored drives and 2 or 3 soft-sectored drives. I have heard that I can put the old 1.2M 5 1/4" drives in and they will provide 400K with the Hard-sector controller and 800K with the soft-sector controller. Has anyone tried this? What were the results. I have also heard that 3.5" 720K drives were electrically the same the 5.25" drives and can be connected up to the soft-sector controller. Again, has anyone tried this, and was it successful? If this is possible, it might be the cheapest route for finding media. Also I heard that the 3.5" 1.44 drives were electrically the same at the 8" drives, and a H47 controller can handle them. Has anyone tried this and what were the results? Any special cable needed? Also, is there any way around the limitation that the H89 can only have two drive controllers? I would like to have the hard-sector controller, the soft-sector controller, and the H47 or H67 all in one system. That would offer the greatest flexibility in drives/disk support, especially if I was able to use the newer 3.5" drives on those controllers. Thanks, Mark From peter59 at sbcglobal.net Sun Aug 15 18:45:25 2004 From: peter59 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Shkabara) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 16:45:25 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Floppy Drive questions. In-Reply-To: <00b701c4831a$160bb1b0$a301010a@BUSTER> Message-ID: <200408152345.i7FNjDZV026779@gatekeeper.evocative.com> by smtp809.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Aug 2004 23:45:12 -0000 I can verify from personal experience some of the drive compatibility. Double-density drives will work with the H17 or H37 controllers. This includes 40-track and 80-track 5.25 inch drives, as well as the 3.5 inch drives. The 3.5 inch, however, cannot be used on the H17 controller unless you provide some sort of adaptor that simulates the hard sector holes - this was discussed at length recently on the list. To use high density drive, such as the 1.2M 5.25 and the 1.44M 3.5, you would need a controller that can handle the high density mode. This includes the H47, H67, Magnolia, and CDR Systems. The H37 controller can also handle high density mode (including an 8-inch drive), but it requires modifications to the hardware. Articles for such modifications had appeared in REMark magazine, if I recall correctly. Don't know if the list has an archive of such articles. Using 3.5 inch drives is great, since the media is much smaller and sturdier. It is also possible to connect the H37 and H17 controllers simultaneously to the same drives - I have done this with a rather simple adaptor. I found it recently in my garage as I was packing for our move. Sorry, but I don't know if you can have more than two controllers. I don't remember having the H17, Magnolia, CDR, and H37 installed at the same time, although I did own all of them at one time. If others are interested in some of my archive of knowledge regarding these items, contact me sometime in October - after I am settled in my new home ;) Peter ----------------------------------------------------------- peter59 at sbcglobal.net - http://www.geocities.com/anapro.geo/ > -----Original Message----- > I hope to be getting a soft-sector controller also. Based on > the mounting holes in the H77, it appears that I will be able > to put 4 half-height drives in it. I'm thinking, I should > have one or two more hard-sectored drives and 2 or 3 > soft-sectored drives. > > I have heard that I can put the old 1.2M 5 1/4" drives in and > they will provide 400K with the Hard-sector controller and > 800K with the soft-sector controller. Has anyone tried this? > What were the results. > > I have also heard that 3.5" 720K drives were electrically the > same the 5.25" drives and can be connected up to the > soft-sector controller. Again, has anyone tried this, and was > it successful? If this is possible, it might be the cheapest > route for finding media. > > Also I heard that the 3.5" 1.44 drives were electrically the > same at the 8" drives, and a H47 controller can handle them. > Has anyone tried this and what were the results? Any special > cable needed? > Mark -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Aug 17 11:36:02 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 09:36:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] Looking for new software Message-ID: <200408171636.JAA02634@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I've been watching the ftp site for any new software items added to the list. There must be some others out there with something to contribute. Dwight -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From CarrollWaddell at sc.rr.com Tue Aug 17 12:23:13 2004 From: CarrollWaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 13:23:13 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] GOING OUT OF BUSINESS SALE Message-ID: <41223F01.1000803@sc.rr.com> Do to circumstances, I am going to have to get out of my H8 hobby. I'm going to sell off all my stuff on ebay, but I wondered if anyone in the group was interested before I try to sell it there. I will make a more complete list shortly, but I have 4 or 5 H8 system, a 3 drive H17 disk system, and an H19 terminal. Also have some odd and end H8 parts. When I make the complete list, I'll list what cards are in each H8 system. Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com Tue Aug 17 14:52:45 2004 From: patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com (Patrick/VCM SysOp) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:52:45 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Looking for new software In-Reply-To: <200408171636.JAA02634@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <003b01c48493$c3b73800$f300a8c0@berkeley.evocative.com> Dwight, Someone just donated a large collection of software and manuals to me, which should have been shipped last week. When those arrive, I'll be adding them. Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of > Dwight K. Elvey > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 9:36 AM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: [sebhc] Looking for new software > > > Hi > I've been watching the ftp site for any new software > items added to the list. There must be some others out > there with something to contribute. > Dwight > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From CarrollWaddell at sc.rr.com Tue Aug 17 14:43:24 2004 From: CarrollWaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:43:24 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] PRICES Message-ID: <41225FDC.8050908@sc.rr.com> I've looked at my Heath stuff. The following is a guide to what I have and the ASKING price. TOTAL FOR EVERYTHING I HAVE $1,650.00 ===================================================== H8 SYSTEM No. 1 (Included H19 and H17) $1,250.00 Main board has been upgraded with gold pin connectors Main board now has connectors to the power supply instead of soldered directly Cabinet has a small cooling fan mounted inside that did not alter the cabinet. Cabinet has been altered to add mounting shells for DB25 connectors. All serial connectors are DB25. CARDS IN SYSTEM ARE: Heath 8080 processor card Wire wrapped 64K memory card (on a Heath wire wrap card) H17 Hard disk controller H8-5 Serial and Tape card H8-4 4 Port Serial Card H17 3 drive diskette system This H17 has IBM 5 1/4 drives (DSDD) I put small rubber stick feet on the side of the cabinet so the cabinet will stand up. (takes less desk space) H19 Terminal. Back of terminal has an additional cutout for a DB25 connector. (I had a push button panel mounted in the drive slot many years ago.) Monitor works perfectly with good crisp display. Has one tape player for cassette tape operation. Included are tapes with tape software, Diskettes with CP/M and HDOS. Also included is the Heath/Zenith manual for CP/M. Comes with both hard and soft sector diskettes. BOTH DISK AND TAPE SYSTEM OS's WORK. ======================================================================================= H8 SYSTEM No. 2 $375.00 H8 cabinet is in pristine condition (ie, unaltered) the way it came from Heathkit. CARDS IN SYSTEM ARE: Heath 8080 processor card H8-16 16K memory card H8-5 Serial and Tape Card ======================================================================================= H8 SYSTEM No. 3 $100.00 H8 cabinet has been modified. Back panel has been modified to allow attachment of DB25 connector shells. Side panel has been modified to install a 117 volt cooling fan. NO CARDS IN THIS SYSTEM EXCEPT THE FRONT PANEL CARD ======================================================================================= H8 SYSTEM No. 4 $150.00 Empty H8 cabinet, unmodified, as it came from Heathkit. NO CARDS IN THIS SYSTEM EXCEPT THE FRONT PANEL CARD ======================================================================================= H8 SYSTEM No. 5 $100.00 Back of cabinet has been modified slightly. The original holes for connectors have been modified to use DB9 connectors. NO CARDS IN THIS SYSTEM EXCEPT THE FRONT PANEL CARD ======================================================================================= LOOSE CARDS THAT I HAVE: Heath 8080 processor card $100.00 8K Static RAM card $100.00 H8-16 16K Static RAM card $100.00 H8-4 4 Port Serial Card $100.00 ======================================================================================= -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From eric at rothfus.com Tue Aug 17 16:28:41 2004 From: eric at rothfus.com (Eric J. Rothfus) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:28:41 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] PRICES In-Reply-To: <41225FDC.8050908@sc.rr.com> (message from Carroll Waddell on Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:43:24 -0400) References: <41225FDC.8050908@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <1092771952@rothfus.com> Carroll - is your e-mail still working? I got two bounced e-mail messages saying undeliverable to "CarrollWaddell at sc.rr.com". -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From CarrollWaddell at sc.rr.com Tue Aug 17 16:54:02 2004 From: CarrollWaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:54:02 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] PRICES In-Reply-To: <1092771952@rothfus.com> References: <41225FDC.8050908@sc.rr.com> <1092771952@rothfus.com> Message-ID: <41227E7A.9010809@sc.rr.com> I just talked with Jack on the phone and he told me you had gotten bounced back messages. I don't know why. Could be Road Runner. Anyway, got this one. CEW Eric J. Rothfus wrote: >Carroll - is your e-mail still working? I got >two bounced e-mail messages saying undeliverable >to "CarrollWaddell at sc.rr.com". > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From CarrollWaddell at sc.rr.com Tue Aug 17 17:11:24 2004 From: CarrollWaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 18:11:24 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] SHIPPING Message-ID: <4122828C.9030303@sc.rr.com> I just wanted to make it clear that the prices I mentioned for my stuff does not include shipping. I didn't mention that to start with. CEW -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From waltm22 at comcast.net Tue Aug 17 17:32:36 2004 From: waltm22 at comcast.net (Walter Moore) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:32:36 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] PRICES In-Reply-To: <41225FDC.8050908@sc.rr.com> References: <41225FDC.8050908@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20040817152957.02286900@mail.comcast.net> Am I greedy if I offer to pick up the entire lot? If you are willing, so am I. ..walt >I've looked at my Heath stuff. The following is a guide to what I have and >the ASKING price. > >TOTAL FOR EVERYTHING I HAVE $1,650.00 > >===================================================== > >H8 SYSTEM No. 1 (Included H19 and H17) $1,250.00 > >Main board has been upgraded with gold pin connectors >Main board now has connectors to the power supply instead of soldered directly >Cabinet has a small cooling fan mounted inside that did not alter the cabinet. >Cabinet has been altered to add mounting shells for DB25 connectors. All >serial >connectors are DB25. > >CARDS IN SYSTEM ARE: >Heath 8080 processor card >Wire wrapped 64K memory card (on a Heath wire wrap card) >H17 Hard disk controller >H8-5 Serial and Tape card >H8-4 4 Port Serial Card > >H17 3 drive diskette system >This H17 has IBM 5 1/4 drives (DSDD) >I put small rubber stick feet on the side of the cabinet so the cabinet >will stand up. >(takes less desk space) > >H19 Terminal. >Back of terminal has an additional cutout for a DB25 connector. (I had a >push button panel >mounted in the drive slot many years ago.) Monitor works perfectly with >good crisp display. > >Has one tape player for cassette tape operation. > >Included are tapes with tape software, Diskettes with CP/M and HDOS. >Also included is the Heath/Zenith manual for CP/M. Comes with both hard >and soft sector diskettes. > >BOTH DISK AND TAPE SYSTEM OS's WORK. >======================================================================================= > >H8 SYSTEM No. 2 $375.00 > >H8 cabinet is in pristine condition (ie, unaltered) the way it came from >Heathkit. > >CARDS IN SYSTEM ARE: >Heath 8080 processor card >H8-16 16K memory card >H8-5 Serial and Tape Card > >======================================================================================= > >H8 SYSTEM No. 3 $100.00 > >H8 cabinet has been modified. Back panel has been modified to allow >attachment of DB25 connector shells. >Side panel has been modified to install a 117 volt cooling fan. > >NO CARDS IN THIS SYSTEM EXCEPT THE FRONT PANEL CARD > >======================================================================================= > >H8 SYSTEM No. 4 $150.00 > >Empty H8 cabinet, unmodified, as it came from Heathkit. > >NO CARDS IN THIS SYSTEM EXCEPT THE FRONT PANEL CARD > >======================================================================================= > >H8 SYSTEM No. 5 $100.00 > >Back of cabinet has been modified slightly. The original holes for >connectors have >been modified to use DB9 connectors. > >NO CARDS IN THIS SYSTEM EXCEPT THE FRONT PANEL CARD > >======================================================================================= > >LOOSE CARDS THAT I HAVE: > >Heath 8080 processor card $100.00 >8K Static RAM card $100.00 >H8-16 16K Static RAM card $100.00 >H8-4 4 Port Serial Card $100.00 > >======================================================================================= >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com Wed Aug 18 10:47:53 2004 From: RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com (West, Ronald S.) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:47:53 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] PRICES Message-ID: <6A47CB4A48D1EA49A6F7AB618490D6490AEA9E2D@mcl-its-exs03.mail.saic.com> Walt, If you don't want one of those H8 shells (system 3 or preferably 5), I have some spare boards and could put together a working machine. That is if the shell is otherwise working (good power supply and display board working). Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of > Walter Moore > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 6:33 PM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: Re: [sebhc] PRICES > > > Am I greedy if I offer to pick up the entire lot? If you are > willing, so am I. > > ..walt > > > > >I've looked at my Heath stuff. The following is a guide to > what I have > >and > >the ASKING price. > > > >TOTAL FOR EVERYTHING I HAVE $1,650.00 > > > >===================================================== > > > >H8 SYSTEM No. 1 (Included H19 and H17) $1,250.00 > > > >Main board has been upgraded with gold pin connectors > >Main board now has connectors to the power supply instead of > soldered > >directly Cabinet has a small cooling fan mounted inside that did not > >alter the cabinet. Cabinet has been altered to add mounting > shells for > >DB25 connectors. All serial connectors are DB25. > > > >CARDS IN SYSTEM ARE: > >Heath 8080 processor card > >Wire wrapped 64K memory card (on a Heath wire wrap card) > >H17 Hard disk controller > >H8-5 Serial and Tape card > >H8-4 4 Port Serial Card > > > >H17 3 drive diskette system > >This H17 has IBM 5 1/4 drives (DSDD) > >I put small rubber stick feet on the side of the cabinet so > the cabinet > >will stand up. > >(takes less desk space) > > > >H19 Terminal. > >Back of terminal has an additional cutout for a DB25 > connector. (I had > >a > >push button panel > >mounted in the drive slot many years ago.) Monitor works > perfectly with > >good crisp display. > > > >Has one tape player for cassette tape operation. > > > >Included are tapes with tape software, Diskettes with CP/M and HDOS. > >Also included is the Heath/Zenith manual for CP/M. Comes > with both hard > >and soft sector diskettes. > > > >BOTH DISK AND TAPE SYSTEM OS's WORK. > >============================================================= > ========== > >================ > > > >H8 SYSTEM No. 2 $375.00 > > > >H8 cabinet is in pristine condition (ie, unaltered) the way it came > >from > >Heathkit. > > > >CARDS IN SYSTEM ARE: > >Heath 8080 processor card > >H8-16 16K memory card > >H8-5 Serial and Tape Card > > > >============================================================= > ========== > >================ > > > >H8 SYSTEM No. 3 $100.00 > > > >H8 cabinet has been modified. Back panel has been modified to allow > >attachment of DB25 connector shells. > >Side panel has been modified to install a 117 volt cooling fan. > > > >NO CARDS IN THIS SYSTEM EXCEPT THE FRONT PANEL CARD > > > >============================================================= > ========== > >================ > > > >H8 SYSTEM No. 4 $150.00 > > > >Empty H8 cabinet, unmodified, as it came from Heathkit. > > > >NO CARDS IN THIS SYSTEM EXCEPT THE FRONT PANEL CARD > > > >============================================================= > ========== > >================ > > > >H8 SYSTEM No. 5 $100.00 > > > >Back of cabinet has been modified slightly. The original holes for > >connectors have > >been modified to use DB9 connectors. > > > >NO CARDS IN THIS SYSTEM EXCEPT THE FRONT PANEL CARD > > > >============================================================= > ========== > >================ > > > >LOOSE CARDS THAT I HAVE: > > > >Heath 8080 processor card $100.00 > >8K Static RAM card $100.00 > >H8-16 16K Static RAM card $100.00 > >H8-4 4 Port Serial Card $100.00 > > > >============================================================= > ========== > >================ > >-- > >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From CarrollWaddell at sc.rr.com Wed Aug 18 16:37:18 2004 From: CarrollWaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 17:37:18 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H8 stuff Message-ID: <4123CC0E.6090205@sc.rr.com> Just to let you know, Dan Veeneman was the first to ask for my H8 stuff, and he wanted all of it.. If there was anything you wanted, you can contact him and see if he is willing to sell it to you. If he is, I can ship it to you, and we will work out the price. Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From eric at rothfus.com Wed Aug 18 20:53:37 2004 From: eric at rothfus.com (Eric J. Rothfus) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 21:53:37 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Internet Archive Gets Exemption re:Vintage Software Message-ID: <1092875834@rothfus.com> A message was just posted on a CoCo (TRS80 Color Computer) mailing list regarding the copyrights of vintage software. I've reviewed the web-site referenced and it appears to be VERY applicable for 5 1/4" media users, particularly those with hard sectors :-)... This site details the important exceptions to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) that apply to vintage works. Check it out: http://www.archive.org/about/dmca.php this links to: http://www.copyright.gov/1201/docs/librarian_statement_01.html So you may want to go there directly. Eric ------------------------------------------------------------- From: Allen Huffman Subject: Re: [Coco] Internet Archive Gets Exemption re:Vintage Software Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 20:09:09 -0500 To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts On Aug 16, 2004, at 10:27 AM, Robert Emery wrote: > Some of you probably have seen this already. > I just found it interesting and thought I'd share: > http://www.archive.org/about/dmca.php So does a 5 1/4" floppy (no longer made) or a ROM pak count? Allen - -- Coco mailing list Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco ------- End of forwarded message ------- -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Wed Aug 18 21:21:37 2004 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 21:21:37 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Internet Archive Gets Exemption re:Vintage Software In-Reply-To: <1092875834@rothfus.com> Message-ID: <000001c48593$41946ef0$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> Eric, Interesting article - took a while to realize it was written in English. Anyhow...the exemption speaks to "non-infringing use". How do you interpret that? To me, it means that one is allowed to defeat copy-protection schemes (or ignore legal statements prohibiting copying?) to create personal backups, transfer to other media by the owner of the original media, etc. I don't think it changes anything in our ability to share or distribute software, regardless of media. If a work is protected by a valid copyright, distribution on different media without permission is not "non-infringing". An item doesn't become public domain simply because the media on which it exists is obsolete. Maybe some of the software authors on the list can provide their perspective. Jack > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of > Eric J. Rothfus > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 8:54 PM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: [sebhc] Internet Archive Gets Exemption re:Vintage Software > > > A message was just posted on a CoCo (TRS80 Color Computer) > mailing list regarding the copyrights of vintage software. > I've reviewed the web-site referenced and it appears to be > VERY applicable for 5 1/4" media users, particularly those > with hard sectors :-)... > > This site details the important exceptions to the > Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) that apply to vintage > works. Check it out: > http://www.archive.org/about/dmca.php > this links to: > http://www.copyright.gov/1201/docs/librarian_statement_01.html > So you may want to go there directly. > > Eric > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > From: Allen Huffman > Subject: Re: [Coco] Internet Archive Gets Exemption > re:Vintage Software > Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 20:09:09 -0500 > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > > On Aug 16, 2004, at 10:27 AM, Robert Emery wrote: > > > Some of you probably have seen this already. > > I just found it interesting and thought I'd share: > > http://www.archive.org/about/dmca.php > > So does a 5 1/4" floppy (no longer made) or a ROM pak count? > > Allen > > > - -- > Coco mailing list > Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > ------- End of forwarded message ------- > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Aug 18 21:33:51 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 19:33:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] Internet Archive Gets Exemption re:Vintage Software Message-ID: <200408190233.TAA04074@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Jack Rubin" > >Eric, > >Interesting article - took a while to realize it was written in English. >Anyhow...the exemption speaks to "non-infringing use". How do you >interpret that? > >To me, it means that one is allowed to defeat copy-protection schemes >(or ignore legal statements prohibiting copying?) to create personal >backups, transfer to other media by the owner of the original media, >etc. I don't think it changes anything in our ability to share or >distribute software, regardless of media. If a work is protected by a >valid copyright, distribution on different media without permission is >not "non-infringing". An item doesn't become public domain simply >because the media on which it exists is obsolete. Hi The only stuff I've release is all copyleft. Still, I beleive that just that act of copying for archival purposes is "non-infringing". Copying for use would fall under "infringing" as far as I could tell. I believe that there is still some confusion as to obsolete media as compared to making images and putting them on the web. I don't really understand how this ruling effects that since the material is no longer on "obsolete media". Dwight > >Maybe some of the software authors on the list can provide their >perspective. > >Jack > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: sebhc at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >> Eric J. Rothfus >> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 8:54 PM >> To: sebhc at sebhc.org >> Subject: [sebhc] Internet Archive Gets Exemption re:Vintage Software >> >> >> A message was just posted on a CoCo (TRS80 Color Computer) >> mailing list regarding the copyrights of vintage software. >> I've reviewed the web-site referenced and it appears to be >> VERY applicable for 5 1/4" media users, particularly those >> with hard sectors :-)... >> >> This site details the important exceptions to the >> Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) that apply to vintage >> works. Check it out: >> http://www.archive.org/about/dmca.php >> this links to: >> http://www.copyright.gov/1201/docs/librarian_statement_01.html >> So you may want to go there directly. >> >> Eric >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------- >> From: Allen Huffman >> Subject: Re: [Coco] Internet Archive Gets Exemption >> re:Vintage Software >> Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 20:09:09 -0500 >> To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts >> >> On Aug 16, 2004, at 10:27 AM, Robert Emery wrote: >> >> > Some of you probably have seen this already. >> > I just found it interesting and thought I'd share: >> > http://www.archive.org/about/dmca.php >> >> So does a 5 1/4" floppy (no longer made) or a ROM pak count? >> >> Allen >> >> >> - -- >> Coco mailing list >> Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco >> ------- End of forwarded message ------- >> >> -- >> Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlangr at verizon.net Wed Aug 18 22:01:20 2004 From: garlangr at verizon.net (Mark Garlanger) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 22:01:20 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Internet Archive Gets Exemption re:Vintage Software References: <000001c48593$41946ef0$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> Message-ID: <017501c48598$cdaff300$a301010a@BUSTER> Hi Jack, Although I'm not an author of any of this old software, I think you nailed it. It's only to allow you to circumvent any type of copy-protection on those works for non-infringing uses. Copyright have been retroactively extended since at least 1976. Each time adding 20 years to the copyright so that no copyrighted work will ever fall into public domain again. The DMCA is especially bad, enough if what you want to do has 'fair-use' precendence, you are NOT allowed to do it if the author used 'encryption' to protect their work. Say, you just bought the new 'Barney' DVD for you 5 year-old. He/She's quite independent and can usually get the DVD in the player without problem but you would rather have them use a < $1 DVD-R backup copy of the movie instead of the $20 original in case the kid destroys the disk. Well since the DVD is encrypted you can NOT LEGALLY make a copy of that DVD. The DMCA has taken away all fair-use of copyright works that use 'technology that effectively controls access to a copyrighted work.' Since this is SO over the top, they are allowing people to petition to be able to circumvention the access control (i.e. legally crack the encryption) in very narrowly defined areas. See #4. E-books for the blind - bet that was a hard one for them to agree to. This ruling doesn't have any application to 'infringing' uses. And even if the work has been seemingly abandoned, you still can't have legal access to it. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Rubin" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:21 PM Subject: RE: [sebhc] Internet Archive Gets Exemption re:Vintage Software > Eric, > > Interesting article - took a while to realize it was written in English. > Anyhow...the exemption speaks to "non-infringing use". How do you > interpret that? > > To me, it means that one is allowed to defeat copy-protection schemes > (or ignore legal statements prohibiting copying?) to create personal > backups, transfer to other media by the owner of the original media, > etc. I don't think it changes anything in our ability to share or > distribute software, regardless of media. If a work is protected by a > valid copyright, distribution on different media without permission is > not "non-infringing". An item doesn't become public domain simply > because the media on which it exists is obsolete. > > Maybe some of the software authors on the list can provide their > perspective. > > Jack > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sebhc at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of > > Eric J. Rothfus > > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 8:54 PM > > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > > Subject: [sebhc] Internet Archive Gets Exemption re:Vintage Software > > > > > > A message was just posted on a CoCo (TRS80 Color Computer) > > mailing list regarding the copyrights of vintage software. > > I've reviewed the web-site referenced and it appears to be > > VERY applicable for 5 1/4" media users, particularly those > > with hard sectors :-)... > > > > This site details the important exceptions to the > > Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) that apply to vintage > > works. Check it out: > > http://www.archive.org/about/dmca.php > > this links to: > > http://www.copyright.gov/1201/docs/librarian_statement_01.html > > So you may want to go there directly. > > > > Eric > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > From: Allen Huffman > > Subject: Re: [Coco] Internet Archive Gets Exemption > > re:Vintage Software > > Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 20:09:09 -0500 > > To: CoCoList for Color Computer Enthusiasts > > > > On Aug 16, 2004, at 10:27 AM, Robert Emery wrote: > > > > > Some of you probably have seen this already. > > > I just found it interesting and thought I'd share: > > > http://www.archive.org/about/dmca.php > > > > So does a 5 1/4" floppy (no longer made) or a ROM pak count? > > > > Allen > > > > > > - -- > > Coco mailing list > > Coco at maltedmedia.com http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco > > ------- End of forwarded message ------- > > > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From wm65805 at hotmail.com Thu Aug 19 12:54:25 2004 From: wm65805 at hotmail.com (Bill malcolm) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 12:54:25 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Internet Archive Gets Exemption re:Vintage Software Message-ID: I think (bill ) Unless there is economic loss to someone or some company -- it is ok. AKA Suite of Sony VS ... Video cassette recording . the Surpeme Court Justices said of this, issue of fair use. Fair use is less restrictive in Grermany. best regards. _________________________________________________________________ Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Aug 19 14:16:47 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 12:16:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] Internet Archive Gets Exemption re:Vintage Software Message-ID: <200408191916.MAA04711@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Bill malcolm" > >I think (bill ) >Unless there is economic loss to someone or some company -- it is ok. > Hi It also wasn't clear about what they meant by obsolete media. Did they mean that since the source of that media no longer exist that fair use included any copying for any purpose since there was no longer a product that supplied that item. In other words, since to use that item and the source was no longer available that to copy for use is valid. It seems that this goes back to the question on if there is a tangible loss. Since the product is no longer sold, one can not claim loss. In order for the owner of the copyright to maintain that copyright, they must continue to make that information available in a useable form. From older patent rulings, I would suspect that they would also have to make it available at a reasonable cost. Not just saying that you could buy games cartridge X for your old machine a $1,000,000 each to hold the copyright without actually selling anything ( this was done by RCA and they got slapped for it in the early thirties ). This is all an interesting question? I believe that you can not deny use by copyright, you can only enforce collecting of revenues. In terms of many products, this can only be done by sales. If an item is no longer available by sales, one can no longer enforce the copyright without denying the use of the item ( fair use ). This would void the copyright. JMHO Dwight -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From eric at rothfus.com Thu Aug 19 14:18:52 2004 From: eric at rothfus.com (Eric J. Rothfus) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:18:52 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Internet Archive Gets Exemption re:Vintage Software In-Reply-To: <1092875834@rothfus.com> (eric@rothfus.com) References: <1092875834@rothfus.com> Message-ID: <1092939228@rothfus.com> Maybe I'm a glass is half-full type of guy :-) but I feel that these exceptions made by the DMCA, while not providing for "abandonware" do a few very important things IMHO: 1 - acknowledges not only the fleeting nature of the historical artifacts of software as stored on obsolete and degrading media, but also acknowledges the potential connection between the WAY in which things are stored as being an integral part of the artifact itself. 2 - acknowledges and documents that archival of these artifacts is an important and valuable activity: (from the "Initial Comments" by those from the Internet Archive) "The efforts of the Library of Congress, the American Film Institute, and other organizations to rescue and preserve this irreplaceable contribution to our cultural life are to be applauded, and the making of duplicate copies for purposes of archival preservation certainly falls within the scope of fair use." 3 - establishes (in some fashion) a non-governmental/municipal body as capable of being an archive for these types of artifacts So why do I think that these things are important? And what does that mean for us? (vintage computer enthusiasts) I'm a strong advocate for preserving the software-works of the early computing era. In fact, those software works should out-live the hardware on which they were run. So given archival of artifacts necessary for the recreation of the hardware, along with archived software, it will be possible in a millenium to recreate computing as it was in the late 20th century. For some odd reason :-) I find that important. So independent to our ability to legally or morally use the software that was created and copyrighted in that era, it is still quite important to archive it. The DMCA has begun to open the door for this type of legal activity as it relates to obsolete software. Further, they have seemed to acknowledge the need to have this information distributed and/or archived in sites other than that controlled by the government (this is a quite arguable point IMHO, however). Granted, the door has only been cracked open. But as the rule-making body continues to acclimate themselves to these issues, I am confident that the "rightful" use of this type of obsolete software will become acceptable not only morally but within the copyright law. I recommend reading the "Initial Comments" by the Internet Archive if you haven't already. It presents well-constructed arguments regarding software archival and access. I'm quite glad that they are pursuing this course. http://www.copyright.gov/1201/2003/comments/025.pdf Eric -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlangr at verizon.net Sat Aug 28 22:22:46 2004 From: garlangr at verizon.net (Mark Garlanger) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:22:46 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Improvements to the image transfer program References: <200407271727.KAA21248@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <012301c48d77$742b0ea0$6501010a@BUSTER> Hi Dwight, Have you documented the protocol that you use between the PC and H89? What kind of language is .SEQ? I googled it, and found "Sequential Instruction File ", but couldn't find any information on that. I would like to write something for Linux that would handle this. I could reboot into DOS, but what is the fun in that ;-) Thanks, Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dwight K. Elvey" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 12:27 PM Subject: Re: [sebhc] Improvements to the image transfer program > Hi All > I've sent in the latest image transfer code. > It is now H89LDR9.ZIP. The bootstrap code has > changed so that if you are using an older version, > you'll need to reenter the bootstrap code > from the monitor and after loading the main loader, > save it to your standalone floppy. The older > version will not work with the new one because > of an added command. > I've also include a command at the PC to change > the baud rate for those that only have the > H8-5 to communicate through. The baud rate on the > H8's H8-5 is jumper selected so you'll need to > change the jumper to match the rate selected > on the PC side. This is to account for the fact > that may H8-5's do not work reliably at 9600 > baud. The PC side can be set to 9600, 4800, 2400 > or 1200. One of these will surely work. > This command should not be used with the H89 or > H8 with H8-4. There is no easy way for both sides > to know what the baud rate is. The baud rate on > the H89 and H8-4 is set by software instead of > hardware. Both of these setups use rs232 level > drivers that should have no issues at 9600 Baud, > anyway. > This code does have the added feature that it can > determine the volume number that is actually in > the sector headers of the disk. This is useful for > non-HDOS disk. Some require one to set the override > to match. For these disk, it is always a good idea > to save information as to what the volume number > of the disk is, if it is a non-HDOS. There are > 256 possible volume numbers. It would be a pain > to have to try them all when restoring the image > to a disk. > Dwight > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From peter59 at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 30 10:14:04 2004 From: peter59 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Shkabara) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 08:14:04 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] long distance Message-ID: <200408301513.i7UFDnBF032067@gatekeeper.evocative.com> by smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Aug 2004 15:13:49 -0000 This is not a Heath computer question, so I hope you will forgive my posting. However, I need some help that some of you may be able to provide. As you may know from my earlier postings, I am moving, and hence I need to select a long distance provider. The only LD calls I make are to my sister in Ukraine. The lowest rate I found was from a company named 3U.net located in Henderson, NV. My question: is anyone familiar with this company? Or is there a site you can refer me to that will rate the quality of LD providers? I have sites to find low rates, but not to get user quality of service reports. Thank you. Peter ----------------------------------------------------------- peter59 at sbcglobal.net - http://www.geocities.com/anapro.geo/ p.s. The move takes place next week, so once I am settled, I can get to the Heath H89 stuff I had been mentioning on the list. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Aug 30 13:30:26 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 11:30:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] Improvements to the image transfer program Message-ID: <200408301830.LAA15134@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Mark The bootstrap is relatively simple. You follow the instructions and then send the raw file H89LDR2.BIN in reversed order ( last byte of file first through to first byte of file ). The bootstrap program will automatically transfer execution to the main program. The main program has a self aligning feature to account for 1 or 2 extra initial characters in bringing up the seal line. Once the main program is running, you can use the commands as described at the beginning of the file: H89LDR2.ASM. The DOS side just uses this small set of commands to transfer images. ( I was looking at these comments and noticed an error. The S command no longer needs a formatted disk. It formats the tracks it needs for the boot program. I does only format what it uses so it may not be an image that can be saved. ). The DOS side code is written in Forth. It uses a particular Forth called FPC ( available free online from several sites ). I use and auxiliary program called TCOM that converts the Forth programs ( normally loaded on the fly like BASIC programs ) into a DOS *.COM format files. The *.SEQ stands for sequential files rather than block ( *.BLK ) files, more traditionally used with Forth's. I'm sorry for the lack of comments in the code. Forth's RPN nature makes it hard to read the code for one that is not familiar with it. I do try to indent and make lines that are like complete thoughts ( sentences? ). It is best to try to follow things by starting at the last word defined and work forward from there ( words defined by : WordName ...BodyOfWord... ; ) There are places that FPC and TCOM differ. I use inline directive words \fpc and \tcom to selectively compile code. It would be great to get a Linux version of this up and running as well. I'm willing to help as much as I can. Although, not a C programmer, I can often read and understand C code well enough to determine what is going on. I can walk you through my code and answer specific questions. There are a few public domain Forths for Linux available but I'm not all that familiar with them. Things like file I/O are bound to be different so it would be best if you used a language that you were familiar with. Also, I'm not sure what things like TCOM that they may have available. Dwight >From: "Mark Garlanger" > >Hi Dwight, > > Have you documented the protocol that you use between the PC and H89? >What kind of language is .SEQ? I googled it, and found "Sequential >Instruction File ", but couldn't find any information on that. > >I would like to write something for Linux that would handle this. I could >reboot into DOS, but what is the fun in that ;-) > > Thanks, > Mark > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 12:27 PM >Subject: Re: [sebhc] Improvements to the image transfer program > > >> Hi All >> I've sent in the latest image transfer code. >> It is now H89LDR9.ZIP. The bootstrap code has >> changed so that if you are using an older version, >> you'll need to reenter the bootstrap code >> from the monitor and after loading the main loader, >> save it to your standalone floppy. The older >> version will not work with the new one because >> of an added command. >> I've also include a command at the PC to change >> the baud rate for those that only have the >> H8-5 to communicate through. The baud rate on the >> H8's H8-5 is jumper selected so you'll need to >> change the jumper to match the rate selected >> on the PC side. This is to account for the fact >> that may H8-5's do not work reliably at 9600 >> baud. The PC side can be set to 9600, 4800, 2400 >> or 1200. One of these will surely work. >> This command should not be used with the H89 or >> H8 with H8-4. There is no easy way for both sides >> to know what the baud rate is. The baud rate on >> the H89 and H8-4 is set by software instead of >> hardware. Both of these setups use rs232 level >> drivers that should have no issues at 9600 Baud, >> anyway. >> This code does have the added feature that it can >> determine the volume number that is actually in >> the sector headers of the disk. This is useful for >> non-HDOS disk. Some require one to set the override >> to match. For these disk, it is always a good idea >> to save information as to what the volume number >> of the disk is, if it is a non-HDOS. There are >> 256 possible volume numbers. It would be a pain >> to have to try them all when restoring the image >> to a disk. >> Dwight >> >> >> -- >> Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Mon Aug 30 21:02:04 2004 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 22:02:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [sebhc] Re: archiving Heath H8/H89 hard-sectored disks Message-ID: <200408310202.WAA11837@ss10.danlan.com> Lyle Bickley wrote: |I'll second that. | |Lyle | |On Monday 30 August 2004 12:49, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: |> On Sun, 29 Aug 2004, Dan Lanciani wrote: |> > I've come up with a way to read Heath hard-sectored disks with a |> > 1797-style controller (with some modifications). I've now archived all |> > of my old disks with only one unrecoverable error in an unused sector |> > (not bad for media that is approaching 30 years in age). I do seem to |> > have run through *drives* at an alarming rate, though I hope that the |> > cleaning disks I have on order will restore some of them. Is anyone |> > interested in: |> > |> > -Technical details (the method should work for many non-standard FM |> > formats)? |> |> Hi Dan. |> |> By all means, please post some technical details. My plan was to read a track at a time in MFM mode to get both the clock and data bits which I could decode in software. The first problem was the index holes. I disconnected the index signal from the drive and routed the 1797's index input to a bit on an i/o port. (I was doing this on an H100 so I used the manual precomp line.) With index under software control I could create a fake hole, read as many bytes of data as I wanted, and the create another fake hole to terminate the command. The next problem was clock/data synchronization. Even in MFM mode the 1797 exposes only 8 bits (that is, every other bit) of its 16-bit data shift register to the cpu. Normally a special pattern with missing clock pulses synchronizes the register to the bit stream, but of course there is no such special pattern when reading FM data as MFM. I had initially hoped that there would be enough random variation such that a few attempts at reading any given track would result in at least one instance where the data was in the desired position. Unfortunately, the reading process turned out to be pretty much deterministic and if a particular run of bits was out of phase once it was likely to remain so. To solve the bit synchronization problem I intercepted the raw data input to the 1797 and delayed each pulse by 2 microseconds with half of a 74123, using the other half to produce a pulse of similar length to the original (not that the latter is critical). I then diode-or'ed the delayed bit stream with the original and fed the result to the 1797's raw data input. This guarantees that regardless of the clock/data bit phase relationship to the data shift register, all the bits are available to the CPU. Because the 1797 uses an external clock recovery circuit the timing of my delayed pulses does not interfere with accurate clock tracking. With the raw bits in memory I apply a simple algorithm to separate clock and data. I examine a bit. If it is a 0 it must be data and I shift it to the output buffer. If it is 1 I drop it and shift the next bit to the output buffer whether it is a 0 or a 1. With the data bits in memory I simply mimic the H17's normal operation by searching from sync bytes and accumulating bytes thereafter. Note that the bits in a byte for the H17 are reversed from most other disk formats. Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From sp11 at hotmail.com Mon Aug 30 22:25:49 2004 From: sp11 at hotmail.com (Steven Parker) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 03:25:49 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] Re: archiving Heath H8/H89 hard-sectored disks Message-ID: Dan says: >I've now archived all of my old disks... So do you have some new submissions for the sebhc software archives now? Cheers, - Steven _________________________________________________________________ Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Mon Aug 30 22:37:09 2004 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 23:37:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [sebhc] Re: archiving Heath H8/H89 hard-sectored disks Message-ID: <200408310337.XAA14279@ss10.danlan.com> "Steven Parker" wrote: |Dan says: |>I've now archived all of my old disks... | |So do you have some new submissions for the sebhc software archives now? Based on a quick glance at your archive I think I have some distributions you lack, e.g., HDOS 1.0, 1.5, and 3.0. I responded about this to the other person who asked; I need to know where/how to send them. Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From sp11 at hotmail.com Mon Aug 30 23:03:06 2004 From: sp11 at hotmail.com (Steven Parker) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 04:03:06 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] Re: archiving Heath H8/H89 hard-sectored disks Message-ID: Dan says: >Based on a quick glance at your archive I think I have some distributions >you lack, e.g., HDOS 1.0, 1.5, and 3.0. I responded about this to the >other person who asked; I need to know where/how to send them. Place them in the "uploads" area of the archives, and post any description here (if not obvious like an HDOS distribution). Upload anything of interest, not just HDOS releases. Cheers, - Steven _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee? Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Mon Aug 30 23:16:52 2004 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 00:16:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [sebhc] Re: archiving Heath H8/H89 hard-sectored disks Message-ID: <200408310416.AAA15192@ss10.danlan.com> |Place them in the "uploads" area of the archives, and post any description |here (if not obvious like an HDOS distribution). The HDOS releases are there. Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Tue Aug 31 11:46:29 2004 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 09:46:29 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Re: archiving Heath H8/H89 hard-sectored disks References: <200408310337.XAA14279@ss10.danlan.com> Message-ID: <4134AB65.26E6@earthlink.net> Steven Parker wrote: > So do you have some new submissions for the sebhc software > archives now? I've been slowly going through my boxes of disks and sorting out the distribution disks from HUG. I have a pile of 20-30 so far. What is the address of the site to check to see if any of them are not yet in the archives so I can submit them? -- "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Mead -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Tue Aug 31 11:25:11 2004 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 09:25:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] Access to the SEBHC archive In-Reply-To: <4134AB65.26E6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20040831162511.47382.qmail@web53709.mail.yahoo.com> Access to the SEBHC archive is at www.sebhc.org/archive - username: heathkit password: hdos8bit The archives are arranged by categories - look under software for the HUG directory. Other contributions appreciated as well! Jack --- Lee Hart wrote: > Steven Parker wrote: > > So do you have some new submissions for the sebhc > software > > archives now? > > I've been slowly going through my boxes of disks and > sorting out the > distribution disks from HUG. I have a pile of 20-30 > so far. What is the > address of the site to check to see if any of them > are not yet in the > archives so I can submit them? > -- > "Never doubt that the work of a small group of > thoughtful, committed > citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only > thing that ever > has!" -- Margaret Mead > -- > Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 > leeahart_at_earthlink.net > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > sebhc-request at sebhc.org. > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlangr at verizon.net Tue Aug 31 20:02:11 2004 From: garlangr at verizon.net (Mark Garlanger) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:02:11 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Access to the SEBHC archive References: <20040831162511.47382.qmail@web53709.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01a401c48fbf$5002c1e0$6501010a@BUSTER> Also, it's available via both HTTP and FTP at that same address. So is the new h17 format the same as the h8d? Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Rubin" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 11:25 AM Subject: [sebhc] Access to the SEBHC archive > Access to the SEBHC archive is at > www.sebhc.org/archive - > username: heathkit > password: hdos8bit > > The archives are arranged by categories - look under > software for the HUG directory. Other contributions > appreciated as well! > > Jack > > --- Lee Hart wrote: > >> Steven Parker wrote: >> > So do you have some new submissions for the sebhc >> software >> > archives now? >> >> I've been slowly going through my boxes of disks and >> sorting out the >> distribution disks from HUG. I have a pile of 20-30 >> so far. What is the >> address of the site to check to see if any of them >> are not yet in the >> archives so I can submit them? >> -- >> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of >> thoughtful, committed >> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only >> thing that ever >> has!" -- Margaret Mead >> -- >> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 >> leeahart_at_earthlink.net >> >> >> -- >> Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> sebhc-request at sebhc.org. >> > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlangr at verizon.net Tue Aug 31 20:03:49 2004 From: garlangr at verizon.net (Mark Garlanger) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:03:49 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Improvements to the image transfer program References: <200408301830.LAA15134@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <01ad01c48fbf$8a9f07a0$6501010a@BUSTER> I need to find a cable and try out the existing program to see how it works, then I'll be able to tackle the conversion to Linux, it doesn't appear that it will be very hard. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dwight K. Elvey" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 1:30 PM Subject: Re: [sebhc] Improvements to the image transfer program > Hi Mark > The bootstrap is relatively simple. You follow the instructions and > then send the raw file H89LDR2.BIN in reversed order ( last byte of > file first through to first byte of file ). The bootstrap program > will automatically transfer execution to the main program. The > main program has a self aligning feature to account for 1 or 2 > extra initial characters in bringing up the seal line. > Once the main program is running, you can use the commands as > described at the beginning of the file: H89LDR2.ASM. The DOS > side just uses this small set of commands to transfer images. > ( I was looking at these comments and noticed an error. The > S command no longer needs a formatted disk. It formats the > tracks it needs for the boot program. I does only format what > it uses so it may not be an image that can be saved. ). > The DOS side code is written in Forth. It uses a particular > Forth called FPC ( available free online from several sites ). > I use and auxiliary program called TCOM that converts the Forth > programs ( normally loaded on the fly like BASIC programs ) > into a DOS *.COM format files. The *.SEQ stands for sequential > files rather than block ( *.BLK ) files, more traditionally > used with Forth's. I'm sorry for the lack of comments in the > code. Forth's RPN nature makes it hard to read the code for > one that is not familiar with it. I do try to indent and > make lines that are like complete thoughts ( sentences? ). > It is best to try to follow things by starting at the last > word defined and work forward from there ( words defined > by : WordName ...BodyOfWord... ; ) > There are places that FPC and TCOM differ. I use inline directive > words \fpc and \tcom to selectively compile code. > It would be great to get a Linux version of this up and running > as well. I'm willing to help as much as I can. Although, not > a C programmer, I can often read and understand C code well > enough to determine what is going on. I can walk you through > my code and answer specific questions. There are a few public > domain Forths for Linux available but I'm not all that > familiar with them. Things like file I/O are bound to be different > so it would be best if you used a language that you were > familiar with. Also, I'm not sure what things like TCOM that > they may have available. > Dwight > > >>From: "Mark Garlanger" >> >>Hi Dwight, >> >> Have you documented the protocol that you use between the PC and H89? >>What kind of language is .SEQ? I googled it, and found "Sequential >>Instruction File ", but couldn't find any information on that. >> >>I would like to write something for Linux that would handle this. I could >>reboot into DOS, but what is the fun in that ;-) >> >> Thanks, >> Mark >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Dwight K. Elvey" >>To: >>Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 12:27 PM >>Subject: Re: [sebhc] Improvements to the image transfer program >> >> >>> Hi All >>> I've sent in the latest image transfer code. >>> It is now H89LDR9.ZIP. The bootstrap code has >>> changed so that if you are using an older version, >>> you'll need to reenter the bootstrap code >>> from the monitor and after loading the main loader, >>> save it to your standalone floppy. The older >>> version will not work with the new one because >>> of an added command. >>> I've also include a command at the PC to change >>> the baud rate for those that only have the >>> H8-5 to communicate through. The baud rate on the >>> H8's H8-5 is jumper selected so you'll need to >>> change the jumper to match the rate selected >>> on the PC side. This is to account for the fact >>> that may H8-5's do not work reliably at 9600 >>> baud. The PC side can be set to 9600, 4800, 2400 >>> or 1200. One of these will surely work. >>> This command should not be used with the H89 or >>> H8 with H8-4. There is no easy way for both sides >>> to know what the baud rate is. The baud rate on >>> the H89 and H8-4 is set by software instead of >>> hardware. Both of these setups use rs232 level >>> drivers that should have no issues at 9600 Baud, >>> anyway. >>> This code does have the added feature that it can >>> determine the volume number that is actually in >>> the sector headers of the disk. This is useful for >>> non-HDOS disk. Some require one to set the override >>> to match. For these disk, it is always a good idea >>> to save information as to what the volume number >>> of the disk is, if it is a non-HDOS. There are >>> 256 possible volume numbers. It would be a pain >>> to have to try them all when restoring the image >>> to a disk. >>> Dwight >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> >>-- >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> > > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Aug 31 20:22:57 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 18:22:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] Access to the SEBHC archive Message-ID: <200409010122.SAA16299@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Mark It appears to be the same. At most, it might include different interleaving. I expect to look at it tonight to check it out. I don't think the sectors of HDOS were physically interleaved ( unless done by someone to speed up BASICs loading of programs and data ). I think these images were catured from the physical media so one never knows ( I'm not sure if these are from from Dan Lanciani or Lee Hart ). That may make a difference. I would assume that Lee is using my program but Dan is reading the physical data. Mine goes through the OS so it would ignore any physical interleaving done for other purposes. ( I used to do this for a friend that was using a large accounting package under BASIC. It shortened his load time from several minutes to under a minute. ) Dwight >From: "Mark Garlanger" > >Also, it's available via both HTTP and FTP at that same address. > >So is the new h17 format the same as the h8d? > > Mark > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jack Rubin" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 11:25 AM >Subject: [sebhc] Access to the SEBHC archive > > >> Access to the SEBHC archive is at >> www.sebhc.org/archive - >> username: heathkit >> password: hdos8bit >> >> The archives are arranged by categories - look under >> software for the HUG directory. Other contributions >> appreciated as well! >> >> Jack >> >> --- Lee Hart wrote: >> >>> Steven Parker wrote: >>> > So do you have some new submissions for the sebhc >>> software >>> > archives now? >>> >>> I've been slowly going through my boxes of disks and >>> sorting out the >>> distribution disks from HUG. I have a pile of 20-30 >>> so far. What is the >>> address of the site to check to see if any of them >>> are not yet in the >>> archives so I can submit them? >>> -- >>> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of >>> thoughtful, committed >>> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only >>> thing that ever >>> has!" -- Margaret Mead >>> -- >>> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 >>> leeahart_at_earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >>> sebhc-request at sebhc.org. >>> >> >> -- >> Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Tue Aug 31 22:34:34 2004 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 22:34:34 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] h17 and h8d disk images In-Reply-To: <01a401c48fbf$5002c1e0$6501010a@BUSTER> Message-ID: <000001c48fd4$99e92a50$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> The .h17 format preceded the .h8d - these images are "verbose" hex dumps of various disks using Dave Wallace's algorithm. This is also the format that Eric Rothfus uses with his SVD device. The .h8d format was developed by Dave Dunfield for his H8 emulator; Stephen Parker transformed many .h17 disks into .h8d images by stripping the track and sector info (and converting to binary?). At least for the HUG material, the same disks should be available in both formats. Jack > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of > Mark Garlanger > Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 8:02 PM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: Re: [sebhc] Access to the SEBHC archive > > > Also, it's available via both HTTP and FTP at that same address. > > So is the new h17 format the same as the h8d? > > Mark > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jack Rubin" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 11:25 AM > Subject: [sebhc] Access to the SEBHC archive > > > > Access to the SEBHC archive is at > > www.sebhc.org/archive - > > username: heathkit > > password: hdos8bit > > > > The archives are arranged by categories - look under > > software for the HUG directory. Other contributions appreciated as > > well! > > > > Jack > > > > --- Lee Hart wrote: > > > >> Steven Parker wrote: > >> > So do you have some new submissions for the sebhc > >> software > >> > archives now? > >> > >> I've been slowly going through my boxes of disks and > >> sorting out the > >> distribution disks from HUG. I have a pile of 20-30 > >> so far. What is the > >> address of the site to check to see if any of them > >> are not yet in the > >> archives so I can submit them? > >> -- > >> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of > >> thoughtful, committed > >> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only > >> thing that ever > >> has!" -- Margaret Mead > >> -- > >> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 > >> leeahart_at_earthlink.net > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > >> sebhc-request at sebhc.org. > >> > > > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Tue Aug 31 22:35:01 2004 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:35:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [sebhc] Access to the SEBHC archive Message-ID: <200409010335.XAA28664@ss10.danlan.com> "Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: |Hi Mark | It appears to be the same. At most, it might include |different interleaving. I expect to look at it tonight |to check it out. I don't think the sectors of HDOS were |physically interleaved They were not interleaved; however, some versions of the driver did offset sector 0 on each successive track so that spiral reads did not miss a rotation each time. As with any physical sector manipulation, none of this matters to images. It's only logical interleave (where the driver knows a mapping between real sector numbers and those in the headers) that causes problems. As far as I know, this was never done on H17-style disks. I've now uploaded the three CP/M distributions and my collection of HUG disks (some of which probably duplicate what is alread there). Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From sp11 at hotmail.com Tue Aug 31 23:51:54 2004 From: sp11 at hotmail.com (Steven Parker) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 04:51:54 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] h17 and h8d disk images Message-ID: Mark asked: >So is the new h17 format the same as the h8d? Then Jack said: >The .h17 format preceded the .h8d - these images are "verbose" hex dumps... Except the recent downloads are actually binary images, so the answer to Mark's question in this case is "yes". The h17 extension is what they were uploaded with .. I suppose we may want to rename them to h8d for consistency. They could use individual descriptions also. I'll try to do this soon but first I wanted to make the files accessible for download. - Steven (spelled with a "v") :) _________________________________________________________________ Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List