From frustum at pacbell.net Tue Jul 5 22:50:13 2005 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 22:50:13 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question Message-ID: <42CB54F5.8030503@pacbell.net> I have been trying to get educated by reading the list archives that are stored online (eg, sebhc.0406). Using vim to read it isn't so great. Are there readers that process those files and turn them into something that mozilla's mail program (or the like) can read and thread for me? The specific part of my question is this: I'm more interested in archiving things than I am using them. I've gleaned that Dwight Elvey has a small loader program for generating a bootable image for an H8, but what I want is the opposite -- something to dump the disk image. Dave Dunfield has written a cool utility to do this for northstar disk systems, allowing transferring disk images either way and the communication protocol is checksummed to ensure integrity. Does such a thing exist for the heathkit world? The majority of my disk images are for an H47 (8") system, which still works. Has anybody developed code for reading disks via a catweasel? Thanks for all advice. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dave04a at dunfield.com Wed Jul 6 05:58:32 2005 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 06:58:32 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question Message-ID: <20050706105831.LTKS11224.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Hi Jim, >The specific part of my question is this: I'm more interested in archiving >things than I am using them. I've gleaned that Dwight Elvey has a small loader >program for generating a bootable image for an H8, but what I want is the >opposite -- something to dump the disk image. > >Dave Dunfield has written a cool utility to do this for northstar disk systems, >allowing transferring disk images either way and the communication protocol is >checksummed to ensure integrity. > >Does such a thing exist for the heathkit world? The majority of my disk images >are for an H47 (8") system, which still works. If you happen to be running CP/M on your H8 (which I believe is possible with an option to map RAM into low memory), then I have recently written a generic CP/M disk image backup/restore over the serial port which is similar to the ones I did for NorthStar and Cromemco. Unfortunately I have not yet found a disk controller for my H8, so I have not developed any more H8 specific tools since my simulator and the H8T utility for translating and transferring H8 tape images. (I did recently find an H10 paper tape reader/punch, but somehow I don't think theres a big call for transferring paper tape images). Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Wed Jul 6 07:23:20 2005 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 07:23:20 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H10 docs Message-ID: <000001c58225$7fd51900$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> I've uploaded an ugly but "lite" scan of the H10 Operations Manual to docs/H8. If the wiring pinouts in the pictorial are unreadable, I'll add a text page with the info. Bloated "archival" version to follow! Jack -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Wed Jul 6 08:59:04 2005 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 09:59:04 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question In-Reply-To: <42CB54F5.8030503@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <200507061359.j66Dx4YG003540@ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> You have a working H47? Those were rare in 1981. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Jim Battle Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 11:50 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question I have been trying to get educated by reading the list archives that are stored online (eg, sebhc.0406). Using vim to read it isn't so great. Are there readers that process those files and turn them into something that mozilla's mail program (or the like) can read and thread for me? The specific part of my question is this: I'm more interested in archiving things than I am using them. I've gleaned that Dwight Elvey has a small loader program for generating a bootable image for an H8, but what I want is the opposite -- something to dump the disk image. Dave Dunfield has written a cool utility to do this for northstar disk systems, allowing transferring disk images either way and the communication protocol is checksummed to ensure integrity. Does such a thing exist for the heathkit world? The majority of my disk images are for an H47 (8") system, which still works. Has anybody developed code for reading disks via a catweasel? Thanks for all advice. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Wed Jul 6 09:13:51 2005 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 10:13:51 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question In-Reply-To: <20050706105831.LTKS11224.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> Message-ID: <200507061413.j66EDoWZ002316@ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> There was an H8 disk controller (H17 type) on E-Bay, the auction ended last night (Tues. night). -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Dave Dunfield Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 6:59 AM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question Hi Jim, >The specific part of my question is this: I'm more interested in archiving >things than I am using them. I've gleaned that Dwight Elvey has a small loader >program for generating a bootable image for an H8, but what I want is the >opposite -- something to dump the disk image. > >Dave Dunfield has written a cool utility to do this for northstar disk systems, >allowing transferring disk images either way and the communication protocol is >checksummed to ensure integrity. > >Does such a thing exist for the heathkit world? The majority of my disk images >are for an H47 (8") system, which still works. If you happen to be running CP/M on your H8 (which I believe is possible with an option to map RAM into low memory), then I have recently written a generic CP/M disk image backup/restore over the serial port which is similar to the ones I did for NorthStar and Cromemco. Unfortunately I have not yet found a disk controller for my H8, so I have not developed any more H8 specific tools since my simulator and the H8T utility for translating and transferring H8 tape images. (I did recently find an H10 paper tape reader/punch, but somehow I don't think theres a big call for transferring paper tape images). Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Wed Jul 6 09:21:14 2005 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 10:21:14 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H10 docs In-Reply-To: <000001c58225$7fd51900$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> Message-ID: <200507061421.j66ELDWZ018003@ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> It's an excellent scan as-is. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Jack Rubin Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 8:23 AM To: SEBHC Subject: [sebhc] H10 docs I've uploaded an ugly but "lite" scan of the H10 Operations Manual to docs/H8. If the wiring pinouts in the pictorial are unreadable, I'll add a text page with the info. Bloated "archival" version to follow! Jack -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Wed Jul 6 09:37:17 2005 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 07:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] H10 docs In-Reply-To: <200507061421.j66ELDWZ018003@ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> Message-ID: <20050706143717.21421.qmail@web53710.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Barry - the "bloat" comes when I scan as gif into Photoshop to clean up the pages, then convert to pdf and bind with Acrobat. This manual will be a good test case since there is a well-documented "before". Also, this scan was done at 200 dpi which gives a good copy but really isn't "facsimile" level - there is clear degradation of the image compared to the original. As a preservation fanatic, I want to create an archived image which can be reprinted and not be distinguished from the original (e.g. CD quality reproduction vs. audio tape). The pre/post processing becomes a bottleneck, even with an automated document feeder to do the initial scan. Jack Barry Watzman wrote: It's an excellent scan as-is. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Jack Rubin Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 8:23 AM To: SEBHC Subject: [sebhc] H10 docs I've uploaded an ugly but "lite" scan of the H10 Operations Manual to docs/H8. If the wiring pinouts in the pictorial are unreadable, I'll add a text page with the info. Bloated "archival" version to follow! Jack -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Watzman at neo.rr.com Wed Jul 6 09:45:02 2005 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 10:45:02 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H10 docs In-Reply-To: <20050706143717.21421.qmail@web53710.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200507061445.j66Ej1YG000433@ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> I find that scanning at 300dpi gray scale directly into Acrobat (let acrobat do the compression) gives excellent results. Difficult for the oversized illustration books, however. Also, you can't use an ADF with most of the Heath manuals unless you cut them apart. Barry _____ From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Jack Rubin Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 10:37 AM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: RE: [sebhc] H10 docs Thanks Barry - the "bloat" comes when I scan as gif into Photoshop to clean up the pages, then convert to pdf and bind with Acrobat. This manual will be a good test case since there is a well-documented "before". Also, this scan was done at 200 dpi which gives a good copy but really isn't "facsimile" level - there is clear degradation of the image compared to the original. As a preservation fanatic, I want to create an archived image which can be reprinted and not be distinguished from the original (e.g. CD quality reproduction vs. audio tape). The pre/post processing becomes a bottleneck, even with an automated document feeder to do the initial scan. Jack Barry Watzman wrote: It's an excellent scan as-is. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Jack Rubin Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 8:23 AM To: SEBHC Subject: [sebhc] H10 docs I've uploaded an ugly but "lite" scan of the H10 Operations Manual to docs/H8. If the wiring pinouts in the pictorial are unreadable, I'll add a text page with the info. Bloated "archival" version to follow! Jack -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Watzman at neo.rr.com Wed Jul 6 09:48:50 2005 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 10:48:50 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] OT to Jim Battle In-Reply-To: <42CB54F5.8030503@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <200507061448.j66EmnYG007572@ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> Jim, this is OT for this group, but I have completed scanning of all of the Proteus / Solus newsletters from volume 0 number 0 to volume 4 number 6 (I am missing volume 4 number 3 & 4 if they existed). Barry Watzman Watzman at neo.rr.com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dave04a at dunfield.com Wed Jul 6 10:30:42 2005 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 11:30:42 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H10 docs Message-ID: <20050706153041.PCFH21628.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> At 07:23 06/07/2005 -0500, you wrote: >I've uploaded an ugly but "lite" scan of the H10 Operations Manual to >docs/H8. If the wiring pinouts in the pictorial are unreadable, I'll add a >text page with the info. Bloated "archival" version to follow! > >Jack Hi Jack, Thanks! I printed it out, and it's perfectly legible - fine for my purposes. (And I do appreciate the small size!) Much appreciated! Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Wed Jul 6 12:47:56 2005 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 10:47:56 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question References: <200507061413.j66EDoWZ002316@ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> Message-ID: <42CC194C.2105@earthlink.net> Barry Watzman wrote: > > There was an H8 disk controller (H17 type) on E-Bay, the auction ended last > night (Tues. night). I also have an H8 with no disk controller. The board I'd like to find for it is the H37/H47 controller. I'm even willing to build one myself if I can find enough documentation. I have built H37 controllers for the H89. In fact, I'm trying to do so now. I have PC boards, almost all the parts, and have one almost finished. If I can only find a source of Western Digital WD2143M-03 and WD1691PE chips I should be in business. The H8 board, being larger, may not have used these rare chips. There are alternate circuits, but they take more PC board space. Does anyone have a schematic and layout for the H8 H37 board? -- If you would not be forgotten When your body's dead and rotten Then write of great deeds worth the reading Or do the great deeds worth repeating -- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Wed Jul 6 11:11:20 2005 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 12:11:20 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question In-Reply-To: <42CC194C.2105@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200507061611.j66GBJYG016774@ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> On the WD support chips, although I hate to suggest this, if a Z-100 controller becomes available (or even, for that matter, an entire Z-100), it has those same chips, socketed, and you could pull them to build up the 89-37. It's been possible to pick up Z-100 FDC boards cheaply (under $10) at times. I don't remember the H-8 8" board, I'm not even certain that there was one from Heath. The H-8 had only a 2MHz 8080, which could not do double density 8". [I have the catalogs from that era, but they are boxed up in the basement and are not handy]. Barry -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 1:48 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question Barry Watzman wrote: > > There was an H8 disk controller (H17 type) on E-Bay, the auction ended last > night (Tues. night). I also have an H8 with no disk controller. The board I'd like to find for it is the H37/H47 controller. I'm even willing to build one myself if I can find enough documentation. I have built H37 controllers for the H89. In fact, I'm trying to do so now. I have PC boards, almost all the parts, and have one almost finished. If I can only find a source of Western Digital WD2143M-03 and WD1691PE chips I should be in business. The H8 board, being larger, may not have used these rare chips. There are alternate circuits, but they take more PC board space. Does anyone have a schematic and layout for the H8 H37 board? -- If you would not be forgotten When your body's dead and rotten Then write of great deeds worth the reading Or do the great deeds worth repeating -- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From frustum at pacbell.net Wed Jul 6 11:24:37 2005 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 11:24:37 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question In-Reply-To: <200507061359.j66Dx4YG003540@ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> References: <200507061359.j66Dx4YG003540@ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> Message-ID: <42CC05C5.4080401@pacbell.net> Barry Watzman wrote: > You have a working H47? Those were rare in 1981. Yes, and unfortunately one of the drives got damaged in shipment. My sister mailed it to me (bless her) but she didn't do much more than drop it in a box and label it. The pans on the back that cover the fans got pushed in (it was easy to hammer them out and they look pretty decent, although all the air filter foam has long since decayed away). The most serious damage is that the door of the left drive got snapped off. I believe the rest of the electronics and mechanics are good; crazy glue might work once I disassemble things enough. For now I can boot off of the right drive and that works fine. I have at least 50 8" disks for it. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From frustum at pacbell.net Wed Jul 6 11:27:11 2005 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 11:27:11 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] OT to Jim Battle In-Reply-To: <200507061448.j66EmnYG007572@ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> References: <200507061448.j66EmnYG007572@ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> Message-ID: <42CC065F.4040709@pacbell.net> Barry Watzman wrote: > Jim, this is OT for this group, but I have completed scanning of all of the > Proteus / Solus newsletters from volume 0 number 0 to volume 4 number 6 (I > am missing volume 4 number 3 & 4 if they existed). > > Barry Watzman > Watzman at neo.rr.com > > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > Hah! I have also scanned vol 1 number one through the vol 4 number 4, just last week. THey aren't online. Perhaps we should compare notes offline (scanning resolution and file size) and pick the best of the litter. I'll certainly take the vol 0 issues. BTW a while back I contact Stan Sokolow who put it all together and he was pleased to have it archived. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Wed Jul 6 11:49:23 2005 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 12:49:23 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question In-Reply-To: <42CC05C5.4080401@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <200507061649.j66GnMYG003256@ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> The two drives are not the same. The Remex drive system had a "master" drive and a "slave" drive. The controller was in the master drive, which talked to the host computer over what amounted to a fancy parallel port. The drives were very poorly made and the failure rate was abysmal (50% or so). You might be able to find a replacement drive somewhere, and if it's the wrong type (master/slave) swap the PCB. I'd put in a search for "Remex" on E-Bay. Barry -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Jim Battle Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 12:25 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question Barry Watzman wrote: > You have a working H47? Those were rare in 1981. Yes, and unfortunately one of the drives got damaged in shipment. My sister mailed it to me (bless her) but she didn't do much more than drop it in a box and label it. The pans on the back that cover the fans got pushed in (it was easy to hammer them out and they look pretty decent, although all the air filter foam has long since decayed away). The most serious damage is that the door of the left drive got snapped off. I believe the rest of the electronics and mechanics are good; crazy glue might work once I disassemble things enough. For now I can boot off of the right drive and that works fine. I have at least 50 8" disks for it. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From frustum at pacbell.net Wed Jul 6 11:52:46 2005 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 11:52:46 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question In-Reply-To: <42CC194C.2105@earthlink.net> References: <200507061413.j66EDoWZ002316@ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> <42CC194C.2105@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <42CC0C5E.2070507@pacbell.net> Lee Hart wrote: ... > I also have an H8 with no disk controller. The board I'd like to find > for it is the H37/H47 controller. I'm even willing to build one myself > if I can find enough documentation. I have the manual for the H47 disk drive unit, but that doesn't contain controller documentation. Lee, from what I've seen, the H47 system is built using intelligent floppy disks, made by Remex. In fact, there are two floppy drives, one containing master logic and one contining slave logic. Funny enough, drive 0 is the slave and drive 1 is the master. Do you have a source for Remex 8" drives? I can try fixing mine but if I can replace it at a reasonable price I might go that route. If you want a scan of the H47 manual and it isn't in the archive already, I can make one. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Wed Jul 6 12:52:27 2005 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 10:52:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question In-Reply-To: <42CC194C.2105@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20050706175227.14576.qmail@web53701.mail.yahoo.com> Lee, Docs for the H37 and H47 controllers are in the archive. The H37 docs are incomplete and look like proofs - the handwritten notation looks like Pat Swayne's handwriting, so maybe he'll chime in ... Jack Lee Hart wrote: Barry Watzman wrote: > > There was an H8 disk controller (H17 type) on E-Bay, the auction ended last > night (Tues. night). I also have an H8 with no disk controller. The board I'd like to find for it is the H37/H47 controller. I'm even willing to build one myself if I can find enough documentation. I have built H37 controllers for the H89. In fact, I'm trying to do so now. I have PC boards, almost all the parts, and have one almost finished. If I can only find a source of Western Digital WD2143M-03 and WD1691PE chips I should be in business. The H8 board, being larger, may not have used these rare chips. There are alternate circuits, but they take more PC board space. Does anyone have a schematic and layout for the H8 H37 board? -- If you would not be forgotten When your body's dead and rotten Then write of great deeds worth the reading Or do the great deeds worth repeating -- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Jul 6 12:59:05 2005 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 10:59:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question Message-ID: <200507061759.KAA23887@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Jim Battle" > >I have been trying to get educated by reading the list archives that are stored >online (eg, sebhc.0406). Using vim to read it isn't so great. Are there >readers that process those files and turn them into something that mozilla's >mail program (or the like) can read and thread for me? > >The specific part of my question is this: I'm more interested in archiving >things than I am using them. I've gleaned that Dwight Elvey has a small loader >program for generating a bootable image for an H8, but what I want is the >opposite -- something to dump the disk image. Hi Jim No, it can be used to both up load and down load images. You load the bootstrap by hand ( some 50 bytes ) and then the main code is loaded. Once in place, you can save the main code to a stand alone boot disk ( non HDOS ). This way you don't need to go through the agony of entering the ~50 bytes, again. Once to this stage, one can transfer images both ways. This includes CPM images on hard sectored. The exception is that it may not work with the saved loader image since I don't format the entire disk, I just format enough for my code. > >Dave Dunfield has written a cool utility to do this for northstar disk systems, >allowing transferring disk images either way and the communication protocol is >checksummed to ensure integrity. > >Does such a thing exist for the heathkit world? The majority of my disk images >are for an H47 (8") system, which still works. I don't have anything for the H47, it is only for the H17. If you have a source listing for the code on the machine, I'd be willing to try to add this to the program. This also goes for anyone with the soft sectored controller as well. I'd be willing to work on getting that working. It'd take some time as debugging remotely can be painful. I do a number of calls to the H17 ROM in order to simplify my code. This means that it won't be compatable with other controllers. Without source listings, the job is a lot harder. One the boards, like the soft sectored, I'd suspect that it wouldn't be real hard since these boards have a separate processor, a Z80. These are more like traditional controllers that one sends parameters and high level commands to ports. It is currently only for the 35 track but I also need to include the 96 tpi drives as well. I'm currently working on a problem for a fellow in Germany that has a Olivetti M20 that he is trying to get the hard disk replacement working. These are interesting machines in that they used the Z8001 processor. Dwight > >Has anybody developed code for reading disks via a catweasel? > >Thanks for all advice. > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Jul 6 13:21:11 2005 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 11:21:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question Message-ID: <200507061821.LAA23894@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Barry Watzman" > >There was an H8 disk controller (H17 type) on E-Bay, the auction ended last >night (Tues. night). > > Hi Barry I was the one that won this. I saw your bid but it looked like you were just bidding in case no one else bid. The other fellow tried to snipe me but I still had the higher bid. I now have enough to finish off my other machine ( with the exception of a missing bezel ). I got another drive just a few weeks ago. Like I said, I'd be willing to fiddle some with other types of controllers but need someone to work with that has one and is willing to help debug. The biggest problem I have with remote debugging is that those that I'm working with either fail to include complete information or don't answer my questions ( they tend to ignore them ). If you have another controller and want to have an image transfer, let me know. Dwight -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Wed Jul 6 13:27:55 2005 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 14:27:55 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question In-Reply-To: <200507061821.LAA23894@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <200507061827.j66IRsYG025639@ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> I put in a bid largely just to track and follow the auction. I wasn't sure who the winner was, but I knew that I recognized the name, hence I decided not to bid on it (at this time, I don't even have an H8). Glad it worked out for you. Barry -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Dwight K. Elvey Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 2:21 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: RE: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question >From: "Barry Watzman" > >There was an H8 disk controller (H17 type) on E-Bay, the auction ended last >night (Tues. night). > > Hi Barry I was the one that won this. I saw your bid but it looked like you were just bidding in case no one else bid. The other fellow tried to snipe me but I still had the higher bid. I now have enough to finish off my other machine ( with the exception of a missing bezel ). I got another drive just a few weeks ago. Like I said, I'd be willing to fiddle some with other types of controllers but need someone to work with that has one and is willing to help debug. The biggest problem I have with remote debugging is that those that I'm working with either fail to include complete information or don't answer my questions ( they tend to ignore them ). If you have another controller and want to have an image transfer, let me know. Dwight -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Wed Jul 6 13:40:56 2005 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 14:40:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question Message-ID: <200507061840.OAA25787@ss10.danlan.com> |I also have an H8 with no disk controller. The board I'd like to find |for it is the H37/H47 controller. I'm even willing to build one myself |if I can find enough documentation. Do you mean the H37/H67 controller? The H47 controller for the H8 is a separate board, and the one disk controller I don't have (though I have the H89 version). I dumped the H47 drives--far too destructive of disks... :( |I have built H37 controllers for the H89. In fact, I'm trying to do so |now. I have PC boards, almost all the parts, and have one almost |finished. If I can only find a source of Western Digital WD2143M-03 and |WD1691PE chips I should be in business. | |The H8 board, being larger, may not have used these rare chips. I'm afraid it does. Somewhere I may actually have one or two of the floppy support chips. You might get away without using the multi-phase clock generator at all. Wasn't precomp disabled by default anyway even for 80 track drives? |There |are alternate circuits, but they take more PC board space. Does anyone |have a schematic and layout for the H8 H37 board? I have the whole manual. As a side note I made the obvious adapter cable from the H67 port to 50 pins and it talks to SASI devices just fine, though I never got the partition table right. Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Wed Jul 6 14:01:51 2005 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 15:01:51 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question In-Reply-To: <200507061840.OAA25787@ss10.danlan.com> Message-ID: <200507061901.j66J1oXW024591@ms-smtp-02-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> The 67 interface was very slightly modified Sasi. The sasi interface, 50 pins, had 10 contiguous unused (or extra ground) lines, and they were simply omitted to reduce the width of the cable. But on the controller itself (inside the 67 box), it still had the full 50-pin interface. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Dan Lanciani Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 2:41 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question |I also have an H8 with no disk controller. The board I'd like to find |for it is the H37/H47 controller. I'm even willing to build one myself |if I can find enough documentation. Do you mean the H37/H67 controller? The H47 controller for the H8 is a separate board, and the one disk controller I don't have (though I have the H89 version). I dumped the H47 drives--far too destructive of disks... :( |I have built H37 controllers for the H89. In fact, I'm trying to do so |now. I have PC boards, almost all the parts, and have one almost |finished. If I can only find a source of Western Digital WD2143M-03 and |WD1691PE chips I should be in business. | |The H8 board, being larger, may not have used these rare chips. I'm afraid it does. Somewhere I may actually have one or two of the floppy support chips. You might get away without using the multi-phase clock generator at all. Wasn't precomp disabled by default anyway even for 80 track drives? |There |are alternate circuits, but they take more PC board space. Does anyone |have a schematic and layout for the H8 H37 board? I have the whole manual. As a side note I made the obvious adapter cable from the H67 port to 50 pins and it talks to SASI devices just fine, though I never got the partition table right. Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Wed Jul 6 16:52:15 2005 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 14:52:15 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question References: <200507061611.j66GBJYG016774@ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> Message-ID: <42CC528F.34@earthlink.net> Barry Watzman wrote: > On the WD support chips, although I hate to suggest this, if a Z-100 > controller becomes available (or even, for that matter, an entire > Z-100), it has those same chips, socketed, and you could pull them > to build up the 89-37. I know. I have a couple dead Z-100s, and that's where the WD chips in the Z89-37 I built came from. Forgive me father, for I have sinned. But your comments sparked a (mad?) idea. The S-100 size Z-100 card is physically small enough to fit in the H8. Do you suppose it might be possible to build an H8-to-S100 adapter? Could a Z-100's floppy card be used pretty much as-is in an H8 to provide soft-sector support? -- Ring the bells that you can ring Forget your perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem" -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Wed Jul 6 15:14:18 2005 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 16:14:18 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question In-Reply-To: <42CC528F.34@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200507062014.j66KEHWZ024660@ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> Possible? Yes. Easy? Probably not. There are some pretty major differences in the bus, although not all of them matter in this case (you are not trying to use DMA, for example). -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 5:52 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question Barry Watzman wrote: > On the WD support chips, although I hate to suggest this, if a Z-100 > controller becomes available (or even, for that matter, an entire > Z-100), it has those same chips, socketed, and you could pull them > to build up the 89-37. I know. I have a couple dead Z-100s, and that's where the WD chips in the Z89-37 I built came from. Forgive me father, for I have sinned. But your comments sparked a (mad?) idea. The S-100 size Z-100 card is physically small enough to fit in the H8. Do you suppose it might be possible to build an H8-to-S100 adapter? Could a Z-100's floppy card be used pretty much as-is in an H8 to provide soft-sector support? -- Ring the bells that you can ring Forget your perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem" -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Wed Jul 6 17:24:20 2005 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 15:24:20 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question References: <200507061413.j66EDoWZ002316@ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> <42CC194C.2105@earthlink.net> <42CC0C5E.2070507@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <42CC5A14.33AE@earthlink.net> Jim Battle wrote: > I have the manual for the H47 disk drive unit, but that doesn't > contain controller documentation. I also have the H47 manuals, but junked my H47 drives long ago. As others have said, they were junk. I just mentioned the H47 because I thought that the second 40-pin connector on the H8-37 board was for the H47. As Dan Lanciani said, it sounds like it was an H67 interface, not H47. All the better! It is fairly easy to connect a SCSI drive to an H67 connector. As for the H8-37 board schematics being in the archive, I didn't know that! I'll look. Is the file name something less-than-obvious? -- The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Jul 6 16:08:54 2005 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 14:08:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question Message-ID: <200507062108.OAA23949@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Jim Battle" ---snip--- > >Dave Dunfield has written a cool utility to do this for northstar disk systems, >allowing transferring disk images either way and the communication protocol is >checksummed to ensure integrity. > ---snip--- Hi I thought I'd mention, I don't do checksum. My experience with serial is that it is either working or it is not working. When I captured the images, I'd transfer them twice. A file compare shows any random error. I had no errors in any of the transfers except on the serial/cassette card H8-5. These failed at the 9600 baud to transfer complete images. They had a circuit that used optical isolators that just didn't make it for this high a baud rate. My program has the option to select a slower baud. It is true that it is possible to get an error. I should have used the checksum from the sectors. This would eliminate any errors caused by bad RAM or by RS232 problems. The only time I ever saw errors on a serial was in an especially noisy environment that had a number of large blower motors that would turn on and off periodically. In this case, we changes to an isolated RS485 signals and didn't have any more issues. Dwight -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Jul 6 16:24:29 2005 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 14:24:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question Message-ID: <200507062124.OAA23958@clulw009.amd.com> Hi You'd most likely just need to add an address decoder. I'm not sure if the periphery controls would match up to the H8's ( you know things like selects and motor controls ). If you write your own drivers, this wouldn't be an issue. Does anyone know if the Z100's controller was compatible with a standard XT floppy controller from a software point of view? If so, I have code that I wrote for a NC4000 to use that board. I also didn't use DMA but the NC4000 running at 4Mhz had no issue keeping up ( in fact it was too fast for normal handshake without some delays ). Dwight >From: "Barry Watzman" > >Possible? Yes. Easy? Probably not. There are some pretty major >differences in the bus, although not all of them matter in this case (you >are not trying to use DMA, for example). > > >-----Original Message----- >From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >Lee Hart >Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 5:52 PM >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: Re: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question > >Barry Watzman wrote: >> On the WD support chips, although I hate to suggest this, if a Z-100 >> controller becomes available (or even, for that matter, an entire >> Z-100), it has those same chips, socketed, and you could pull them >> to build up the 89-37. > >I know. I have a couple dead Z-100s, and that's where the WD chips in >the Z89-37 I built came from. Forgive me father, for I have sinned. > >But your comments sparked a (mad?) idea. The S-100 size Z-100 card is >physically small enough to fit in the H8. Do you suppose it might be >possible to build an H8-to-S100 adapter? Could a Z-100's floppy card be >used pretty much as-is in an H8 to provide soft-sector support? >-- >Ring the bells that you can ring >Forget your perfect offering >There is a crack in everything >That's how the light gets in > -- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem" >-- >Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dave04a at dunfield.com Wed Jul 6 16:43:53 2005 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 17:43:53 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question Message-ID: <20050706214351.VGFZ21628.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> > I thought I'd mention, I don't do checksum. My experience with >serial is that it is either working or it is not working. I've been slowly "mining" a box of about 1000 NorthStar disks... So the Vector is often sitting here sucking on a diskette and sending it up to the PC. My PC software tells me when it gets a soft communications error (checksum failure), and I do see them occuring from time to time - often enough that I would not want to ignore the possibility. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Jul 6 17:06:42 2005 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 15:06:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question Message-ID: <200507062206.PAA23970@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Dave If you are seeing errors, you have some type of issue that needs to be fixed. Are you using the checksum directly from the sectors on the disk ( may be a CRC ) or are you generating it from a RAM buffer? Like I said, I've never seen a problem without a cause. I have designed embedded systems that do CRC checking on packets of data that run continuously, 24/7. Any logged errors required repairs. I've, also, done over a 100 disks on my Poly8813 without a single missmatch. In any case, you should try using a CRC rather than a check sum. These can be used to find the error location for small burst of bit errors. I would suspect your RAM if the errors were always in the same location of your buffer. As a sanity check, you might try turning on the parity as well. Of course, if you are using Windows, such errors are normal. Dwight >From: "Dave Dunfield" > > >> I thought I'd mention, I don't do checksum. My experience with >>serial is that it is either working or it is not working. > >I've been slowly "mining" a box of about 1000 NorthStar disks... >So the Vector is often sitting here sucking on a diskette and >sending it up to the PC. My PC software tells me when it gets a >soft communications error (checksum failure), and I do see them >occuring from time to time - often enough that I would not want >to ignore the possibility. > >Regards, >Dave >-- >dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield >dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com >com Collector of vintage computing equipment: > http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dave04a at dunfield.com Wed Jul 6 17:33:42 2005 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 18:33:42 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question Message-ID: <20050706223342.WDTH21628.orval.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> At 15:06 06/07/2005 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Dave > If you are seeing errors, you have some type of >issue that needs to be fixed. Hi Dwight, I've been doing serial comms for a long time - I designed a line of small data PBX's back in the 80's and worked on major networks before that. Lots of factors can cause a glitch on the line, and it is not uncommon, especially with some of the older UART devices which have known issues when operating at 100% duty cycle (which is what I do during a transfer). To trust the a serial link will work without any error is placing faith in something that you should not - Thats my opinion based on 30+ years of experience ... do with it as you wish. I'm well aware of the differences between checksums and CRC's (check out the VALIDATE example program with my compiler library) ... I chose to use a 16 bit checksum in order to keep the kernal (which may have to be loaded manually) very small. I am comfortable with the level of error detection that it provides. I am NOT comfortable with no error detection at all. Regards, Dave PS: I don't use windows. -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From shumaker at att.net Wed Jul 6 17:33:14 2005 From: shumaker at att.net (steve shumaker) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 15:33:14 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question In-Reply-To: <200507062124.OAA23958@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20050706152944.03101750@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> One of the early 80's S100 books had a series of "notional" (for lack of a better term) interface circuits connecting the S100 to other busses available at the time. The H8 bus was included there. Don't recall details but I have the book and could copy the appropriate section if you're interested in going down the path. steve shumaker At 02:24 PM 7/6/2005 -0700, you wrote: >Hi > You'd most likely just need to add an address decoder. >I'm not sure if the periphery controls would match up to >the H8's ( you know things like selects and motor controls ). >If you write your own drivers, this wouldn't be an issue. > Does anyone know if the Z100's controller was compatible >with a standard XT floppy controller from a software point >of view? If so, I have code that I wrote for a NC4000 >to use that board. I also didn't use DMA but the NC4000 >running at 4Mhz had no issue keeping up ( in fact it was >too fast for normal handshake without some delays ). >Dwight > > > >From: "Barry Watzman" > > > >Possible? Yes. Easy? Probably not. There are some pretty major > >differences in the bus, although not all of them matter in this case (you > >are not trying to use DMA, for example). > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of > >Lee Hart > >Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 5:52 PM > >To: sebhc at sebhc.org > >Subject: Re: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question > > > >Barry Watzman wrote: > >> On the WD support chips, although I hate to suggest this, if a Z-100 > >> controller becomes available (or even, for that matter, an entire > >> Z-100), it has those same chips, socketed, and you could pull them > >> to build up the 89-37. > > > >I know. I have a couple dead Z-100s, and that's where the WD chips in > >the Z89-37 I built came from. Forgive me father, for I have sinned. > > > >But your comments sparked a (mad?) idea. The S-100 size Z-100 card is > >physically small enough to fit in the H8. Do you suppose it might be > >possible to build an H8-to-S100 adapter? Could a Z-100's floppy card be > >used pretty much as-is in an H8 to provide soft-sector support? > >-- > >Ring the bells that you can ring > >Forget your perfect offering > >There is a crack in everything > >That's how the light gets in > > -- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem" > >-- > >Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net > > > >-- > >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > > >-- > >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From frustum at pacbell.net Wed Jul 6 20:53:33 2005 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 20:53:33 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question In-Reply-To: <200507062108.OAA23949@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200507062108.OAA23949@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <42CC8B1D.9000209@pacbell.net> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: ... > Hi > I thought I'd mention, I don't do checksum. My experience with > serial is that it is either working or it is not working. > When I captured the images, I'd transfer them twice. A file > compare shows any random error. I had no errors in any of the > transfers except on the serial/cassette card H8-5. These > failed at the 9600 baud to transfer complete images. They > had a circuit that used optical isolators that just didn't > make it for this high a baud rate. My program has the option > to select a slower baud. In the past, for my Sol and Wang projects, I did what you did -- send the file twice and diff it to ensure a good transfer. It has always been a waste of time to transfer it twice and to manually to and diff things, but I never felt comfortable enough just assuming the first pass is going to be good. Even if the PC is fine, the old computer might have problems. For instance, on the Sol-20 there is no provision for hardware flow control, so you just attempt transfers and if you get a failure, lower the speed and try again. I'd rather have a 2x faster channel that has to resend 1% of the time than have to run at the lower speed. Since my laziness algorithm is of a greedy nature, I never invested the time to write a more robust transfer protocol, and I kick myself every time I have to transfer programs again. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From frustum at pacbell.net Wed Jul 6 20:57:15 2005 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 20:57:15 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question In-Reply-To: <200507062206.PAA23970@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200507062206.PAA23970@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <42CC8BFB.70705@pacbell.net> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Hi Dave > If you are seeing errors, you have some type of > issue that needs to be fixed. Are you using the > checksum directly from the sectors on the disk > ( may be a CRC ) or are you generating it from > a RAM buffer? Like I said, I've never seen a problem > without a cause. I have designed embedded systems > that do CRC checking on packets of data that > run continuously, 24/7. Any logged errors required > repairs. I've, also, done over a 100 disks on my Poly8813 without > a single missmatch. > In any case, you should try using a CRC rather than > a check sum. These can be used to find the error location > for small burst of bit errors. I would suspect your RAM > if the errors were always in the same location of your > buffer. As a sanity check, you might try turning on > the parity as well. > Of course, if you are using Windows, such errors are normal. > Dwight Dwight, I have seen errors that weren't fixable. Say I'm transferring a lot of data from my Sol to my PC, and there is no flow control. If I run at 9600 baud and windows hiccups for some reason (it decides to kick off a virusscan or something and that one task hogs resources for a couple of seconds), characters get dropped. It is stupid that a 2 GHz machine can't keep up with a 9600 baud channel, but it happens. (I know, don't run windows, but for all of its flaws, it has some nice properties too that, for me, make up for the heartburn) -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com Thu Jul 7 08:27:40 2005 From: RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com (West, Ronald S.) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 09:27:40 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] A different vector Message-ID: <166B66B7065AB941B06FD395E98C7E8B06612808@mcl-its-exs04.mail.saic.com> > Jim Battle wrote: > I just mentioned the H47 because I thought that the second > 40-pin connector on the H8-37 board was for the H47. As Dan > Lanciani said, it sounds like it was an H67 interface, not > H47. All the better! It is fairly easy to connect a SCSI > drive to an H67 connector. Can a SCSI disk be connected to the H67 board? If so, are modifications involved? Ron [WB4OUM] -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com Thu Jul 7 08:29:58 2005 From: RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com (West, Ronald S.) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 09:29:58 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] RE: A different vector [correction] Message-ID: <166B66B7065AB941B06FD395E98C7E8B06612809@mcl-its-exs04.mail.saic.com> Oops, that was Lee Hart that made that comment. Sorry. Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: West, Ronald S. > Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 9:28 AM > To: 'sebhc at sebhc.org' > Subject: A different vector > > > > Jim Battle wrote: > > > I just mentioned the H47 because I thought that the second > > 40-pin connector on the H8-37 board was for the H47. As Dan > > Lanciani said, it sounds like it was an H67 interface, not > > H47. All the better! It is fairly easy to connect a SCSI > > drive to an H67 connector. > > Can a SCSI disk be connected to the H67 board? If so, are > modifications involved? > > > Ron > [WB4OUM] > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Thu Jul 7 09:40:20 2005 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 10:40:20 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] A different vector In-Reply-To: <166B66B7065AB941B06FD395E98C7E8B06612808@mcl-its-exs04.mail.saic.com> Message-ID: <200507071440.j67EeJHI005072@ms-smtp-04-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> The 67 interface is SASI which is very similar to SCSI, but I'm not sure exactly what is required to actually connect a SCSI device to a SASI interface. SCSI was derived from and is the direct descendent of SASI, and they are very similar. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of West, Ronald S. Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 9:28 AM To: 'sebhc at sebhc.org' Subject: [sebhc] A different vector > Jim Battle wrote: > I just mentioned the H47 because I thought that the second > 40-pin connector on the H8-37 board was for the H47. As Dan > Lanciani said, it sounds like it was an H67 interface, not > H47. All the better! It is fairly easy to connect a SCSI > drive to an H67 connector. Can a SCSI disk be connected to the H67 board? If so, are modifications involved? Ron [WB4OUM] -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Thu Jul 7 13:36:42 2005 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 11:36:42 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question References: <200507062124.OAA23958@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <42CD763A.7186@earthlink.net> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > I'm not sure if the periphery controls would match up to > the H8's (you know things like selects and motor controls). It would be a miracle if they did. > If you write your own drivers, this wouldn't be an issue. Correct. Since Heath's software is so well documented, it would be easy to change the bit assignments and reassemble. > Does anyone know if the Z100's controller was compatible > with a standard XT floppy controller from a software point > of view? No; it's not even close. The Z-100 used the Western Digital WD1797, while the PC used the NEC 765 floppy controller chip. -- *BE* the change that you wish to see in the world. -- Mahatma Gandhi -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Thu Jul 7 13:25:19 2005 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 11:25:19 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] A different vector References: <166B66B7065AB941B06FD395E98C7E8B06612808@mcl-its-exs04.mail.saic.com> Message-ID: <42CD738F.3529@earthlink.net> West, Ronald S. wrote: > Can a SCSI disk be connected to the H67 board? If so, are modifications > involved? Yes. Several aftermarket suppliers offered them. They used the Heath H67 interface board inside the H89, which provided that 40-pin version of SCSI. An adapter cable connected it to a standard 50-pin SCSI hard drive, as used in Macintoshes and other computers. Then they had to write special software to format and partition the new drive. The Heath software almost works; but it was intended only for the Heath H67, which actually used a Memorex 8" MFM 10meg hard drive and an 8" DSDD floppy, with a Western Digital controller board to convert SCSI to 8" floppy and MFM standards. A similar approach was to use regular 5.25" MFM PC hard drives, with a Western Digital, Xebec, Adaptec, or other controller to imitate what the H67's controller did. Some aftermarket hard drives for the H89 took this route (as PC hard drives were cheaper). -- *BE* the change that you wish to see in the world. -- Mahatma Gandhi -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Thu Jul 7 13:33:42 2005 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 11:33:42 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question References: <5.1.1.5.2.20050706152944.03101750@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <42CD7586.6233@earthlink.net> steve shumaker wrote: > One of the early 80's S100 books had a series of "notional" (for > lack of a better term) interface circuits connecting the S100 to > other busses available at the time. The H8 bus was included there. My thought (without doing any research yet) is that all the Z-100 floppy controller needs is the 8-bit data bus, a few address lines to select the port addresses, the I/O read/write strobes, and an interrupt line. That's a very small subset of the 100 pins. The H8 bus has all these signals, though some "fiddling" will be needed. For instance, S-100 uses separate data-read and data-write pins; the H8 combines them into a single 8-bit read/write bus. The Z-100 board already uses the right controller chip, so the stock Heath software is close to correct. Heath supplies source code for the controller, so it should be straightforward to modify it if the I/O port address or bit assignments within the port have changed. It might be easier to go this route than to build a complete H37 soft-sector board for the H8. It also has the advantage that it would support both 5.25" and 8" drives, like the CDR H8 disk controller. -- *BE* the change that you wish to see in the world. -- Mahatma Gandhi -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Thu Jul 7 13:12:14 2005 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 14:12:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question Message-ID: <200507071812.OAA10514@ss10.danlan.com> | You'd most likely just need to add an address decoder. There's a lot more to it than that. Ignoring the generic bus conversion issues, the method used to synchronize the CPU with DRQ is very different. The Z100 controller uses the common approach of hanging the CPU's data port read/write until the controller is ready. The H8 controller (if I'm remembering correctly) inserts itself between the bus and the interrupt instruction generator (the buffer that puts the RST n instruction on the bus) so it can push a NOP onto the bus after waking the CPU from an HLT used to wait for DRQ. The inner loop is just fast enough to handle 5.25" DD. The HLT scheme is why the H8's H37 controller needed that ribon cable to the CPU card. Interestingly, I did get this to work with a third-party (DG) Z80 CPU board. Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Thu Jul 7 16:32:08 2005 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 14:32:08 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question References: <200507071812.OAA10514@ss10.danlan.com> Message-ID: <42CD9F58.6E11@earthlink.net> Dan Lanciani wrote: > ...the method used to synchronize the CPU with DRQ is very different. Ok, pulling out the H8 schematics... The H8 address and data buss happen to be inverted. No big deal; it means there will need to be inverters between the H8 bus and S-100 bus connector of the Z-100 disk controller board. The H8 IOW and IOR (I/O Write and I/O Read strobes) are also inverted. There may also need to be some timing control to match what the Z-100 board expects. I haven't looked at the Z-100 board's schematics yet. > The Z100 controller uses the common approach of hanging the CPU's > data port read/write until the controller is ready. The H8 > controller (if I'm remembering correctly) inserts itself between > the bus and the interrupt instruction generator (the buffer that > puts the RST n instruction on the bus) so it can push a NOP onto > the bus after waking the CPU from an HLT used to wait for DRQ. > The inner loop is just fast enough to handle 5.25" DD. The H8 and H89 have the CPU execute a HALT instruction while waiting for the next data byte from the H37 disk controller. When the byte is ready, DRQ generates an interrupt, which frees the CPU from its HALT. The CPU then reads the byte, saves it, increments the address counter, and loops to do it all again for the next byte. This scheme is fast enough to handle double-density 5.25" disks even with a 2 MHz 8080. The Magnolia and CDR disk controllers used a different scheme, so they could support 8" double-density formats. The H8 and H89 have the WAIT line on their busses. When the CPU tries to read the next byte from the disk controller, it gets held in the WAIT state until it is ready. This saves a couple instruction times, making the loop fast enough to still work with a 2 MHz 8080 or Z80. Using HALT has the advantage that the Z80 maintains refresh of dynamic memory in the H89. With WAIT, the H89's memory will crash if for some reason the disk controller fails to provide the next byte in time. The H8 uses static memory, so this isn't a problem. So, it looks like the best solution for the Z-100 disk controller in an H8 is to use the WAIT line. This avoids any need to alter the interrupt structure anyway. -- If you would not be forgotten When your body's dead and rotten Then write of great deeds worth the reading Or do the great deeds worth repeating -- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From me at patswayne.com Thu Jul 7 16:37:26 2005 From: me at patswayne.com (Pat Swayne) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 17:37:26 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question In-Reply-To: <20050706175227.14576.qmail@web53701.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050706175227.14576.qmail@web53701.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42CDA096.30802@patswayne.com> Jack Rubin wrote: > Docs for the H37 and H47 controllers are in the archive. The H37 docs > are incomplete and look like proofs - the handwritten notation looks > like Pat Swayne's handwriting, so maybe he'll chime in ... I checked the document -- it's not my handwriting. -- Pat > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Thu Jul 7 22:02:15 2005 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 22:02:15 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question In-Reply-To: <42CDA096.30802@patswayne.com> Message-ID: <000701c58369$72cab860$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> Sorry Pat - thought we had a lead on the docs - thanks for checking in! Jack > > Jack Rubin wrote: > > > Docs for the H37 and H47 controllers are in the archive. > The H37 docs > > are incomplete and look like proofs - the handwritten > notation looks > > like Pat Swayne's handwriting, so maybe he'll chime in ... > > I checked the document -- it's not my handwriting. > -- Pat > > > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Fri Jul 8 10:06:48 2005 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 08:06:48 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question References: <000701c58369$72cab860$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> Message-ID: <42CE9688.669B@earthlink.net> Jack Rubin wrote: > Docs for the H37 and H47 controllers are in the archive. I found 'em. There's plenty of text here, but no schematics, IC parts list, or layout information. -- The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From shumaker at att.net Fri Jul 8 12:42:53 2005 From: shumaker at att.net (steve shumaker) Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 10:42:53 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question In-Reply-To: <42CD7586.6233@earthlink.net> References: <5.1.1.5.2.20050706152944.03101750@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20050708103634.027c1d18@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> FWIW, what appears to be a Z100 disk controller card has just been posted on ebay although the seller does not identify it as such in the title . It's described as an "S100 Winchester Disk Controller Card". In the description, seller states it came from a Z100 system and H/Z type part numbers can clearly be seen in the photo. EBay Item No is 5217110917 s shumaker At 11:33 AM 7/7/2005 -0700, you wrote: >steve shumaker wrote: > > One of the early 80's S100 books had a series of "notional" (for > > lack of a better term) interface circuits connecting the S100 to > > other busses available at the time. The H8 bus was included there. > >My thought (without doing any research yet) is that all the Z-100 floppy >controller needs is the 8-bit data bus, a few address lines to select >the port addresses, the I/O read/write strobes, and an interrupt line. >That's a very small subset of the 100 pins. > >The H8 bus has all these signals, though some "fiddling" will be needed. >For instance, S-100 uses separate data-read and data-write pins; the H8 >combines them into a single 8-bit read/write bus. > >The Z-100 board already uses the right controller chip, so the stock >Heath software is close to correct. Heath supplies source code for the >controller, so it should be straightforward to modify it if the I/O port >address or bit assignments within the port have changed. > >It might be easier to go this route than to build a complete H37 >soft-sector board for the H8. It also has the advantage that it would >support both 5.25" and 8" drives, like the CDR H8 disk controller. >-- >*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world. > -- Mahatma Gandhi >-- >Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com Fri Jul 8 12:58:39 2005 From: RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com (West, Ronald S.) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 13:58:39 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] No Joy Message-ID: <166B66B7065AB941B06FD395E98C7E8B06612816@mcl-its-exs04.mail.saic.com> There is no joy in mudville this week at the West household. I can't get my hard sector or soft sector drives to boot. The common equipment between them (beside the H8) is my one remaining TM100 drive. It appears this one is now making lines on my floppys and it will not boot the couple disks I was willing to risk inserting. I ordered a replacement 360k drive from someone on ebay and hopefully that will get me back in business. Been waiting a week for the darn thing and getting bummed :-( . Just to be sure it wasn't a memory problem I sat down and plugged in the memory test routine from the H8 Oprn manual and, after fixing the errors I made in data entry, it seems to have worked fine. It appears to only check the first 8k of RAM, however. A routine to test all 64k of RAM would be cool if someone knows of one. Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org > [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart > Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 11:07 AM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: Re: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question > > > Jack Rubin wrote: > > Docs for the H37 and H47 controllers are in the archive. > > I found 'em. There's plenty of text here, but no schematics, > IC parts list, or layout information. > -- > The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and > stupidity. > -- Harlan Ellison > -- > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, > leeahart_at_earthlink.net > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Fri Jul 8 13:22:29 2005 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 14:22:29 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20050708103634.027c1d18@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <200507081822.j68IMPWZ007079@ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> Unfortunately, it's only one-half of a two-card set. I sent him a note to that effect. The other card mounted on or near the drive (not the drive's own electronics card, but one of similar size). -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of steve shumaker Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 1:43 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question FWIW, what appears to be a Z100 disk controller card has just been posted on ebay although the seller does not identify it as such in the title . It's described as an "S100 Winchester Disk Controller Card". In the description, seller states it came from a Z100 system and H/Z type part numbers can clearly be seen in the photo. EBay Item No is 5217110917 s shumaker At 11:33 AM 7/7/2005 -0700, you wrote: >steve shumaker wrote: > > One of the early 80's S100 books had a series of "notional" (for > > lack of a better term) interface circuits connecting the S100 to > > other busses available at the time. The H8 bus was included there. > >My thought (without doing any research yet) is that all the Z-100 floppy >controller needs is the 8-bit data bus, a few address lines to select >the port addresses, the I/O read/write strobes, and an interrupt line. >That's a very small subset of the 100 pins. > >The H8 bus has all these signals, though some "fiddling" will be needed. >For instance, S-100 uses separate data-read and data-write pins; the H8 >combines them into a single 8-bit read/write bus. > >The Z-100 board already uses the right controller chip, so the stock >Heath software is close to correct. Heath supplies source code for the >controller, so it should be straightforward to modify it if the I/O port >address or bit assignments within the port have changed. > >It might be easier to go this route than to build a complete H37 >soft-sector board for the H8. It also has the advantage that it would >support both 5.25" and 8" drives, like the CDR H8 disk controller. >-- >*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world. > -- Mahatma Gandhi >-- >Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com Tue Jul 12 14:38:01 2005 From: RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com (West, Ronald S.) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 15:38:01 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H67-SCSI interface Message-ID: <166B66B7065AB941B06FD395E98C7E8B06612831@mcl-its-exs04.mail.saic.com> >From discussions about the H67 interface the other day I decided to compare it with a standard 50pin SCSI interface. They appear to be nearly the same except for the pinouts of the connectors. The data pins are the same on both, starting on pin 2 with -DATA0 and going through pin 16 (even pins) with -DATA7. Pin 18 is Parity. The other signals are all offset by 10 pins. See table below for all connections. * All Odd pins are grounded. Signal H67 SCSI ---------------------- -DATA0 2 2 -DATA1 4 4 -DATA2 6 6 -DATA3 8 8 -DATA4 10 10 -DATA5 12 12 -DATA6 14 14 -DATA7 16 16 -PARITY 18 18 -Busy 26 36 -ACK 28 38 -RST 30 40 -MSG 32 42 -SEL 34 44 -C/D 36 46 -REQ 38 48 -I/O 40 50 If we are lucky and the modern SCSI commands are a superset of the old SASI commands this might work. I ordered a couple connectors (couldn't find a 40pin and 50pin connector in my parts bin) which should be in later this week and will make an adapter to allow a 50pin SCSI drive to be hooked up to the 40pin H67 interface connector. A friend of mine has a 4.3G SCSI drive he is going to give me for my "experiment". Will let you all know if there is any success. Ron -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Tue Jul 12 15:29:26 2005 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 16:29:26 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H67-SCSI interface In-Reply-To: <166B66B7065AB941B06FD395E98C7E8B06612831@mcl-its-exs04.mail.saic.com> Message-ID: <200507122029.j6CKTPHH004889@ms-smtp-04-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> This should be no surprise. The data connector in the 67 ***IS*** "SASI" except that 10 unused pins were left out to get a smaller, narrower connector and cable. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of West, Ronald S. Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 3:38 PM To: 'sebhc at sebhc.org' Subject: [sebhc] H67-SCSI interface >From discussions about the H67 interface the other day I decided to compare it with a standard 50pin SCSI interface. They appear to be nearly the same except for the pinouts of the connectors. The data pins are the same on both, starting on pin 2 with -DATA0 and going through pin 16 (even pins) with -DATA7. Pin 18 is Parity. The other signals are all offset by 10 pins. See table below for all connections. * All Odd pins are grounded. Signal H67 SCSI ---------------------- -DATA0 2 2 -DATA1 4 4 -DATA2 6 6 -DATA3 8 8 -DATA4 10 10 -DATA5 12 12 -DATA6 14 14 -DATA7 16 16 -PARITY 18 18 -Busy 26 36 -ACK 28 38 -RST 30 40 -MSG 32 42 -SEL 34 44 -C/D 36 46 -REQ 38 48 -I/O 40 50 If we are lucky and the modern SCSI commands are a superset of the old SASI commands this might work. I ordered a couple connectors (couldn't find a 40pin and 50pin connector in my parts bin) which should be in later this week and will make an adapter to allow a 50pin SCSI drive to be hooked up to the 40pin H67 interface connector. A friend of mine has a 4.3G SCSI drive he is going to give me for my "experiment". Will let you all know if there is any success. Ron -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlangr at verizon.net Wed Jul 13 00:11:15 2005 From: garlangr at verizon.net (Mark Garlanger) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 00:11:15 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question In-Reply-To: <42CC194C.2105@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <0IJJ002PRVQWBLS1@vms048.mailsrvcs.net> Hi Lee, So, it looks like still no luck in finishing the H37 board. Since several emails I have sent directly to you have gone unanswered, in case of an email problem, I'll ask here... Were you able to resend the H37 Diag disk? Also, one of the used controller card I purchased has a bad 25-pin connector, Peter said he had sold all the ones he had to you. I would like to buy one from you to see if the new connector will fix that card. Thanks, Mark > I have built H37 controllers for the H89. In fact, I'm trying to do so > now. I have PC boards, almost all the parts, and have one almost > finished. If I can only find a source of Western Digital WD2143M-03 and > WD1691PE chips I should be in business. > > The H8 board, being larger, may not have used these rare chips. There > are alternate circuits, but they take more PC board space. Does anyone > have a schematic and layout for the H8 H37 board? > -- > If you would not be forgotten > When your body's dead and rotten > Then write of great deeds worth the reading > Or do the great deeds worth repeating > -- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac > -- > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com Wed Jul 13 08:50:00 2005 From: RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com (West, Ronald S.) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 09:50:00 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question Message-ID: <166B66B7065AB941B06FD395E98C7E8B06612834@mcl-its-exs04.mail.saic.com> Mark, Try http://www.4starelectronics.com/. Click on Parts Search. I tried both of those numbers and their website says they have them. Good luck. Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org > [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Mark Garlanger > Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 1:11 AM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: RE: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question > > > Hi Lee, > > So, it looks like still no luck in finishing the H37 board. > Since several emails I have sent directly to you have gone > unanswered, in case of an email problem, I'll ask here... > Were you able to resend the H37 Diag disk? Also, one of the > used controller card I purchased has a bad 25-pin connector, > Peter said he had sold all the ones he had to you. I would > like to buy one from you to see if the new connector will fix > that card. > > Thanks, > Mark > > > > > I have built H37 controllers for the H89. In fact, I'm > trying to do so > > now. I have PC boards, almost all the parts, and have one almost > > finished. If I can only find a source of Western Digital WD2143M-03 > > and WD1691PE chips I should be in business. > > > > The H8 board, being larger, may not have used these rare > chips. There > > are alternate circuits, but they take more PC board space. > Does anyone > > have a schematic and layout for the H8 H37 board? > > -- > > If you would not be forgotten > > When your body's dead and rotten > > Then write of great deeds worth the reading > > Or do the great deeds worth repeating > > -- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac > > -- > > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, > > leeahart_at_earthlink.net > > > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com Wed Jul 13 09:06:56 2005 From: RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com (West, Ronald S.) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 10:06:56 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H67-SCSI interface Message-ID: <166B66B7065AB941B06FD395E98C7E8B06612835@mcl-its-exs04.mail.saic.com> Barry, I may have been stating the merely obvious, or even the incredibly obvious but not everyone on this email group is an ex Heath (or whatever) engineer. I was hoping that putting the details on here would spur others to grab an old SCSI drive and see if they could get it working, and let the group know what they found. Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org > [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Barry Watzman > Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 4:29 PM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: RE: [sebhc] H67-SCSI interface > > > This should be no surprise. The data connector in the 67 > ***IS*** "SASI" except that 10 unused pins were left out to > get a smaller, narrower connector and cable. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org > [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of West, Ronald S. > Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 3:38 PM > To: 'sebhc at sebhc.org' > Subject: [sebhc] H67-SCSI interface > > From discussions about the H67 interface the other day I > decided to compare it with a standard 50pin SCSI interface. > They appear to be nearly the same except for the pinouts of > the connectors. The data pins are the same on both, starting > on pin 2 with -DATA0 and going through pin 16 (even pins) > with -DATA7. Pin 18 is Parity. The other signals are all > offset by 10 pins. See table below for all connections. > > * All Odd pins are grounded. > Signal H67 SCSI > ---------------------- > -DATA0 2 2 > -DATA1 4 4 > -DATA2 6 6 > -DATA3 8 8 > -DATA4 10 10 > -DATA5 12 12 > -DATA6 14 14 > -DATA7 16 16 > -PARITY 18 18 > -Busy 26 36 > -ACK 28 38 > -RST 30 40 > -MSG 32 42 > -SEL 34 44 > -C/D 36 46 > -REQ 38 48 > -I/O 40 50 > > If we are lucky and the modern SCSI commands are a superset > of the old SASI commands this might work. I ordered a couple > connectors (couldn't find a 40pin and 50pin connector in my > parts bin) which should be in later this week and will make > an adapter to allow a 50pin SCSI drive to be hooked up to the > 40pin H67 interface connector. A friend of mine has a 4.3G > SCSI drive he is going to give me for my "experiment". Will > let you all know if there is any success. > > Ron > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Wed Jul 13 19:08:14 2005 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 17:08:14 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question References: <0IJJ002PRVQWBLS1@vms048.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <42D5ACEE.3409@earthlink.net> Mark Garlanger wrote: > So, it looks like still no luck in finishing the H37 board. Since > several emails I have sent directly to you have gone unanswered, > in case of an email problem, I'll ask here... Hi Mark, I got your emails, and answered them. Or at least thought I did -- they went out, anyway! I answer both here and direct to your email address. Tell me if the direct one arrives. > Were you able to resend the H37 Diag disk? Also, one of the used > controller card I purchased has a bad 25-pin connector, Peter said > he had sold all the ones he had to you. I sent it once, but I guess I didn't have enough postage and they returned it. I haven't sent it again yet; I wanted to put it in a box with the connector and two of the plastic card mounting clips for your H89, but haven't gotten to it. As you can see, I'm still struggling to get a working Z89-37 board myself. I have a Heath board that doesn't work, and that has defied my best efforts to fix. I have some bare boards, and so built one from scratch. It is *almost* finished. I have gotten the last few parts I need, but haven't had time to actually install them and see if it works. Again, I apologize for being so s-l-o-w to get things done. While I like tinkering with my Heathkits, life keep coming up with distractions! -- Ring the bells that you can ring Forget your perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem" -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Wed Jul 13 19:43:15 2005 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 17:43:15 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H67-SCSI interface References: <166B66B7065AB941B06FD395E98C7E8B06612835@mcl-its-exs04.mail.saic.com> Message-ID: <42D5B523.70F2@earthlink.net> West, Ronald S. wrote: > > Barry, > > I may have been stating the merely obvious, or even the incredibly > obvious but not everyone on this email group is an ex Heath (or > whatever) engineer. I was hoping that putting the details on here > would spur others to grab an old SCSI drive and see if they could > get it working, and let the group know what they found. What is obvious to Barry as lead production engineer from Heath may not be obvious to others. So, I think it was good of you to post this information. :-) I hope it *does* encourge others to experiment with newer SCSI drives on an H8/H89. I don't have a hard drive on mine at the moment. While I know the hardware side of interfacing one is pretty straightforward, I'm not skilled enough to write the software to make it work. As I said earlier, I *think* that the stock Heath software would be able to use a SCSI hard drive as if it were a 10meg H67. The hard part is to figure out how to format and partition some other drive, and the BIOS changes to allow use of the extra capacity. -- Ring the bells that you can ring Forget your perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem" -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Wed Jul 13 18:33:35 2005 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 19:33:35 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H67-SCSI interface In-Reply-To: <42D5B523.70F2@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200507132333.j6DNXXYG028161@ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> FWIW, I was the product manager, not the engineer. And while it might not have otherwise been obvious, I have posted this information myself here within the past 30 days (not the pinouts, but the fact that the 67 interface was the SASI interface only with 10 contiguous unused pins left out). The Interface card is just, basically, a parallel port. All of the code -- except for the boot code -- is in the OS, and for CP/M, it's in the bios, for which we have source code. There is still the issue of the format and partition programs, and I don't remember how that was done on the 67. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 8:43 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] H67-SCSI interface West, Ronald S. wrote: > > Barry, > > I may have been stating the merely obvious, or even the incredibly > obvious but not everyone on this email group is an ex Heath (or > whatever) engineer. I was hoping that putting the details on here > would spur others to grab an old SCSI drive and see if they could > get it working, and let the group know what they found. What is obvious to Barry as lead production engineer from Heath may not be obvious to others. So, I think it was good of you to post this information. :-) I hope it *does* encourge others to experiment with newer SCSI drives on an H8/H89. I don't have a hard drive on mine at the moment. While I know the hardware side of interfacing one is pretty straightforward, I'm not skilled enough to write the software to make it work. As I said earlier, I *think* that the stock Heath software would be able to use a SCSI hard drive as if it were a 10meg H67. The hard part is to figure out how to format and partition some other drive, and the BIOS changes to allow use of the extra capacity. -- Ring the bells that you can ring Forget your perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem" -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlangr at verizon.net Wed Jul 13 21:34:38 2005 From: garlangr at verizon.net (Mark Garlanger) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 21:34:38 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question In-Reply-To: <42D5ACEE.3409@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <0IJL00F5BJ5XM762@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> Lee Hart wrote: > Mark Garlanger wrote: > > So, it looks like still no luck in finishing the H37 board. Since > > several emails I have sent directly to you have gone unanswered, > > in case of an email problem, I'll ask here... > > Hi Mark, > > I got your emails, and answered them. Or at least thought I did -- they > went out, anyway! I answer both here and direct to your email address. > Tell me if the direct one arrives. > Hi Lee, Strange, the direct email was not received, I even checked out the spam folder that is on Verizon's server and it wasn't on there either. I guess I may need to try my other email account. > > Were you able to resend the H37 Diag disk? Also, one of the used > > controller card I purchased has a bad 25-pin connector, Peter said > > he had sold all the ones he had to you. > > I sent it once, but I guess I didn't have enough postage and they > returned it. I haven't sent it again yet; I wanted to put it in a box > with the connector and two of the plastic card mounting clips for your > H89, but haven't gotten to it. > Are you referring to the plastic support pieces for the CPU board? > As you can see, I'm still struggling to get a working Z89-37 board > myself. I have a Heath board that doesn't work, and that has defied my > best efforts to fix. I have some bare boards, and so built one from > scratch. It is *almost* finished. I have gotten the last few parts I > need, but haven't had time to actually install them and see if it works. > After trying the first board, I'm betting that I probably won't be able to get either of these boards working without access to an oscilloscope. So I'll probably still need the board you're trying to fix. > Again, I apologize for being so s-l-o-w to get things done. While I like > tinkering with my Heathkits, life keep coming up with distractions! Yep things always come up, but I still can't wait to get a working H37 so that I can use common disks with the H89. Mark -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From peter59 at sbcglobal.net Thu Jul 14 19:00:07 2005 From: peter59 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Shkabara) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 17:00:07 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] floppy drives Message-ID: <200507150000.j6F009ZK089787@mail.evocative.com> by smtp103.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jul 2005 00:00:04 -0000 I was stumbling through my garage looking for brackets and rediscovered several floppy drives I had put aside when we moved. Two of them are 360K DSDD 40 track 5.25 floppy. Here are the details: Fujitsu M2551A08 CDC (Control Data) ID 9428 (P/N/ 77740009) The third drive is a Panasonic JU-475-4, but that one is a 1.2M high density device that is far more common. I was thinking of placing them on e-Bay, but don't know if it is worth while. Some of you have been looking for the DSDD drives, so here is my notification that they are available. I have not used the drives in quite a while - definitely over a year ago, but probably more. They are in good physical shape, and were working fine when I last used them, but I have not tried them recently. Contact me if you are interested in them. I would be willing to connect them to an old PC to check for operation, but don't want to go through the trouble if nobody is interested. Peter peter59 at sbcglobal.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From rgroh at swbell.net Sun Jul 17 15:52:18 2005 From: rgroh at swbell.net (Bob And Bettina Groh) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 15:52:18 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Free 8 inch disk drive - one last chance before the trach man cometh!! Message-ID: <42DAC502.9010808@swbell.net> Cleaning again and noticied the old disk drive up on the shelf - asked before if anyone interested - no response to first email so making one more try before deep six-ing it this Thursday. Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------- More basement cleaning. I found an old, full-size 8" disk drive in complete but unknown operational state. It appears to be single sided (density unknown). It is a General Systems International model 110H (never heard of them). It weighs 16 pounds and the package (with foam packing) is 20 x 14 x 8 inches so you can check UPS or USPS Parcel Post fees from 64014 zip code to you. Add $3 to the shipping cost and this gem(?) can be yours. Otherwise I am going to dump it in the trashcan. If any interest, email me direct. Bob Groh Blue Springs, MO. 64014 -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Sun Jul 17 13:19:27 2005 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 11:19:27 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] list archive and a specific question References: <0IJL00F5BJ5XM762@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <42DAA12F.34B@earthlink.net> Mark Garlanger wrote: > Hi Lee, > Strange, the direct email was not received, I even checked out > the spam folder that is on Verizon's server and it wasn't on there > either. I guess I may need to try my other email account. Mark, send me the email address of your other email account, and I will try that. I receive your emails ok, so once I get an address that works we can save others the joy of reading of our woes on the sebhc list. > Are you referring to the plastic support pieces for the CPU board? Yes. They are a black plastic cylinder, about 3/8" diameter, with a #6-32 threaded hole in end. They snap into the H89's CPU and TLB board's heatsinks, so they can be secured with a screw. > After trying the first board, I'm betting that I probably won't > be able to get either of these boards working without access to > an oscilloscope. So I'll probably still need the board you're > trying to fix. Ok. I'll keep trying. -- Ring the bells that you can ring Forget your perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem" -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Mon Jul 18 21:55:07 2005 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 22:55:07 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H-47 disk drive Message-ID: <200507190255.j6J2suXW001900@ms-smtp-02-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> I recently had some contact with someone who was looking for a part from an H-47 drive that had been damaged in shipping, but I can't remember who it was. Was it someone in this group? I ***MAY*** have found a Remex drive (it may, however, be a non-H47 Remex drive). Barry Watzman Watzman at neo.rr.com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From frustum at pacbell.net Mon Jul 18 23:07:13 2005 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 23:07:13 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H-47 disk drive In-Reply-To: <200507190255.j6J2suXW001900@ms-smtp-02-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> References: <200507190255.j6J2suXW001900@ms-smtp-02-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> Message-ID: <42DC7C71.4050604@pacbell.net> Barry Watzman wrote: > I recently had some contact with someone who was looking for a part from an > H-47 drive that had been damaged in shipping, but I can't remember who it > was. Was it someone in this group? I ***MAY*** have found a Remex drive > (it may, however, be a non-H47 Remex drive). > > Barry Watzman > Watzman at neo.rr.com Barry, that was me. The drive remains broken. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Mon Jul 18 23:16:25 2005 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 00:16:25 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H-47 disk drive In-Reply-To: <42DC7C71.4050604@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <200507190416.j6J4GEHI002015@ms-smtp-04-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> I may have located a Remex drive that you may be able to get for just the cost of shipping (it's in Kansas). I'm not sure yet. It may not be an H-47 drive, even though it apparently is a Remex drive (they made "standard" drives as well). However, hopefully the drive chassis and parts might be the same. I'm waiting for an answer from the guy who has the drive. Barry Watzman Watzman at neo.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Jim Battle Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 12:07 AM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] H-47 disk drive Barry Watzman wrote: > I recently had some contact with someone who was looking for a part from an > H-47 drive that had been damaged in shipping, but I can't remember who it > was. Was it someone in this group? I ***MAY*** have found a Remex drive > (it may, however, be a non-H47 Remex drive). > > Barry Watzman > Watzman at neo.rr.com Barry, that was me. The drive remains broken. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From waltm22 at comcast.net Tue Jul 19 10:26:14 2005 From: waltm22 at comcast.net (Walter Moore) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 08:26:14 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H-47 disk drive In-Reply-To: <200507190416.j6J4GEHI002015@ms-smtp-04-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com > References: <42DC7C71.4050604@pacbell.net> <200507190416.j6J4GEHI002015@ms-smtp-04-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050719082427.02c5b048@mail.comcast.net> Which part do you need? ..walt >I may have located a Remex drive that you may be able to get for just the >cost of shipping (it's in Kansas). I'm not sure yet. It may not be an H-47 >drive, even though it apparently is a Remex drive (they made "standard" >drives as well). However, hopefully the drive chassis and parts might be >the same. I'm waiting for an answer from the guy who has the drive. > >Barry Watzman >Watzman at neo.rr.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >Jim Battle >Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 12:07 AM >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: Re: [sebhc] H-47 disk drive > >Barry Watzman wrote: > > > I recently had some contact with someone who was looking for a part from >an > > H-47 drive that had been damaged in shipping, but I can't remember who it > > was. Was it someone in this group? I ***MAY*** have found a Remex drive > > (it may, however, be a non-H47 Remex drive). > > > > Barry Watzman > > Watzman at neo.rr.com > >Barry, that was me. The drive remains broken. > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From frustum at pacbell.net Tue Jul 19 10:55:58 2005 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 10:55:58 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H-47 disk drive In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050719082427.02c5b048@mail.comcast.net> References: <42DC7C71.4050604@pacbell.net> <200507190416.j6J4GEHI002015@ms-smtp-04-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20050719082427.02c5b048@mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <42DD228E.8010208@pacbell.net> Walter Moore wrote: > Which part do you need? > > ..walt > >> I may have located a Remex drive that you may be able to get for just the >> cost of shipping (it's in Kansas). I'm not sure yet. It may not be >> an H-47 >> drive, even though it apparently is a Remex drive (they made "standard" >> drives as well). However, hopefully the drive chassis and parts might be >> the same. I'm waiting for an answer from the guy who has the drive. >> >> Barry Watzman >> Watzman at neo.rr.com When the H47 was shipped to me, the drive was insufficiently padded -- basically padding top and bottom, but nothing on the other four sides because the box was epsilon bigger than the drive. As a result, the door hinge got broken on the left drive. I'm not too mechanically apt, but I guess I'd describe it more accurately as saying both struts that attach to the door cover snapped about 1 cm from where they are screwed to the door cover. I haven't disassembled the drive enough to know how these struts are attached inside the drive and if they are practical to replace. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Tue Jul 19 14:03:38 2005 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 12:03:38 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H-47 disk drive References: <42DC7C71.4050604@pacbell.net> <200507190416.j6J4GEHI002015@ms-smtp-04-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20050719082427.02c5b048@mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <42DD4E8A.482D@earthlink.net> > I may have located a Remex drive that you may be able to get... There is one other possibility. When my slave Remex H47 drive died, I found that a standard 8" drive could replace it if I made new cables for the data and power connectors. All the normal signals were there; just on different pins. If the master drive died, that is more of a problem. It might be possible to keep the old board with the microcontroller, but connect it to a different 8" drive -- but I never tried it. When my master H47 also died, I just gave up on the whole thing and got a CDR disk controller and drives. That setup is still working today! -- Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong reasons. -- R. Buckminster Fuller -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From waltm22 at comcast.net Tue Jul 19 22:44:40 2005 From: waltm22 at comcast.net (Walter Moore) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 20:44:40 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H-47 disk drive In-Reply-To: <42DD228E.8010208@pacbell.net> References: <42DC7C71.4050604@pacbell.net> <200507190416.j6J4GEHI002015@ms-smtp-04-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20050719082427.02c5b048@mail.comcast.net> <42DD228E.8010208@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050719203753.02c5a060@mail.comcast.net> >When the H47 was shipped to me, the drive was insufficiently padded -- >basically padding top and bottom, but nothing on the other four sides >because the box was epsilon bigger than the drive. As a result, the door >hinge got broken on the left drive. I'm not too mechanically apt, but I >guess I'd describe it more accurately as saying both struts that attach to >the door cover snapped about 1 cm from where they are screwed to the door >cover. I haven't disassembled the drive enough to know how these struts >are attached inside the drive and if they are practical to replace. I think I know which part you need. If you could email me a picture to make sure, I could salvage one from the dead drive pile. ..walt -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From waltm22 at comcast.net Tue Jul 19 22:50:37 2005 From: waltm22 at comcast.net (Walter Moore) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 20:50:37 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H-47 disk drive In-Reply-To: <42DD4E8A.482D@earthlink.net> References: <42DC7C71.4050604@pacbell.net> <200507190416.j6J4GEHI002015@ms-smtp-04-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20050719082427.02c5b048@mail.comcast.net> <42DD4E8A.482D@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050719204445.02c59b40@mail.comcast.net> > >There is one other possibility. When my slave Remex H47 drive died, I >found that a standard 8" drive could replace it if I made new cables for >the data and power connectors. All the normal signals were there; just >on different pins. > >If the master drive died, that is more of a problem. It might be >possible to keep the old board with the microcontroller, but connect it >to a different 8" drive -- but I never tried it. When my master H47 also >died, I just gave up on the whole thing and got a CDR disk controller >and drives. That setup is still working today! >-- If the master drive controller board still works you should be able to jumper it to be drive 2 or 3, and still attach a couple of drives to it in the same manner that Lee did, as drives 0 and 1. Lee, can you read 8" HDOS format disks on that system (pray, pray, pray)? ..walt -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From frustum at pacbell.net Tue Jul 19 23:35:11 2005 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 23:35:11 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H-47 disk drive In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050719203753.02c5a060@mail.comcast.net> References: <42DC7C71.4050604@pacbell.net> <200507190416.j6J4GEHI002015@ms-smtp-04-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20050719082427.02c5b048@mail.comcast.net> <42DD228E.8010208@pacbell.net> <6.2.1.2.2.20050719203753.02c5a060@mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <42DDD47F.8030709@pacbell.net> Walter Moore wrote: ... > I think I know which part you need. If you could email me a picture to > make sure, I could salvage one from the dead drive pile. > > ..walt Here is a link to a 25 KB image of the part in question. The door cover is OK; it is just the struts connecting the door to whatever is inside the drive that broke. http://home.pacbell.net/frustum/remex_door.jpg Thanks! -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Wed Jul 20 11:44:26 2005 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 09:44:26 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H-47 disk drive References: <42DC7C71.4050604@pacbell.net> <200507190416.j6J4GEHI002015@ms-smtp-04-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> <6.2.1.2.2.20050719082427.02c5b048@mail.comcast.net> <42DD4E8A.482D@earthlink.net> <6.2.1.2.2.20050719204445.02c59b40@mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <42DE7F6A.4CF0@earthlink.net> Walter Moore wrote: > Lee, can you read 8" HDOS format disks on that system (pray, pray, > pray)? I haven't used HDOS with it, because I don't have the driver. But I'm virtually positive someone wrote one; I recall seeing it advertised in Henry Fale's H-Scoop newsletter. -- If you would not be forgotten When your body's dead and rotten Then write of great deeds worth the reading Or do the great deeds worth repeating -- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From rgroh at swbell.net Sat Jul 23 00:07:08 2005 From: rgroh at swbell.net (Bob And Bettina Groh) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 00:07:08 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H77 (dual floppy for H-89) without floppies - any interest? Message-ID: <42E1D07C.7040406@swbell.net> Continuing to clean out the basement and found an H-77 (hope my memory is right on that - anyways the external dual floppy rig for the H-89 family). Looks in good shape but has not been used for jillions of years (probably 10 or so). Before I put it on eBay, is anyone interested in making an offer for it? If so, just drop me an email. I don't have any idea what it is worth. Bob Groh -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com Mon Jul 25 08:51:11 2005 From: RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com (West, Ronald S.) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 09:51:11 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] floppy drives Message-ID: <166B66B7065AB941B06FD395E98C7E8B0661287D@mcl-its-exs04.mail.saic.com> Not sure if I want to take a chance on that. I have 3 defective tm100's and don't want to risk expanding my collection ;-) Sorry if I put you through any trouble. Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: peter59 at sbcglobal.net [mailto:peter59 at sbcglobal.net] > Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 7:09 PM > To: 'West, Ronald S.' > Subject: RE: [sebhc] floppy drives > > > Hi Ron, > > I finally managed to connect the drives to my PC, but the > results are questionable. One drive gave out a small puff of > smoke - not good. The other one seemed to function, but I got > an i/o error message from Windows. I had forgotten how to set > the jumpers on these drives for a PC since they were being > used on the H89 that I no longer have. > > The bottom line is that there is another PC I can try them > out on, but can't get to that for another week. If you are > willing to take a chance on the drive anyway (or both) the > shipping weight is about 3 lbs for each drive plus another > pound for the box. My zip code is 95540 for calculating > shipping cost to you. > > Peter > > -----Original Message----- > I'm probably one of many who responded on this. I would be > interested in the 360k drive. I just purchased on on ebay and > wouldn't mind getting another. The one on ebay was tested and > went for $22.00. > > Ron > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Jul 25 14:11:21 2005 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 12:11:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] floppy drives Message-ID: <200507251911.MAA06607@clulw009.amd.com> Hi One of the most common problems with these drives is a mechanical issue. A little of the belt gets on the flywheel. Even tiny anounts can cause failures. Make sure the surfaces are vary clean. I scrape mine clean with the dull edge of a knife to make sure old rubber and oxides are removed with minimum damage to the solid metal. Dwight >From: "West, Ronald S." > >Not sure if I want to take a chance on that. I have 3 defective tm100's and >don't want to risk expanding my collection ;-) > >Sorry if I put you through any trouble. > >Ron > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: peter59 at sbcglobal.net [mailto:peter59 at sbcglobal.net] >> Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 7:09 PM >> To: 'West, Ronald S.' >> Subject: RE: [sebhc] floppy drives >> >> >> Hi Ron, >> >> I finally managed to connect the drives to my PC, but the >> results are questionable. One drive gave out a small puff of >> smoke - not good. The other one seemed to function, but I got >> an i/o error message from Windows. I had forgotten how to set >> the jumpers on these drives for a PC since they were being >> used on the H89 that I no longer have. >> >> The bottom line is that there is another PC I can try them >> out on, but can't get to that for another week. If you are >> willing to take a chance on the drive anyway (or both) the >> shipping weight is about 3 lbs for each drive plus another >> pound for the box. My zip code is 95540 for calculating >> shipping cost to you. >> >> Peter >> >> -----Original Message----- >> I'm probably one of many who responded on this. I would be >> interested in the 360k drive. I just purchased on on ebay and >> wouldn't mind getting another. The one on ebay was tested and >> went for $22.00. >> >> Ron >> >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com Mon Jul 25 14:56:26 2005 From: RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com (West, Ronald S.) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 15:56:26 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H67 Init program? Message-ID: <166B66B7065AB941B06FD395E98C7E8B0661288A@mcl-its-exs04.mail.saic.com> Does anyone know if the Init program for the H67 Winchester is on the SEBHC site or if the source code is available anywhere? I thought I had it at home but cannot find it. Ron -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Mon Jul 25 21:02:46 2005 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 22:02:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [sebhc] H67 Init program? Message-ID: <200507260202.WAA12234@ss10.danlan.com> |Does anyone know if the Init program for the H67 Winchester is on the SEBHC |site or if the source code is available anywhere? I thought I had it at home |but cannot find it. At one point I made an effort to gather all the available prep67 and part67 software (in particular, third-party modifications to support different drive geometry) along with what HDOS drivers existed. Most of it should be in the H17 disk images I recently completed. As I recall, the only source was from a disassembly. Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List