From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Mar 1 11:36:23 2005 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 09:36:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sebhc] IC information Message-ID: <200503011736.JAA18548@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Barry Watzman" >> >Chips will sometimes take a lot more abuse than you expect > ---snip--- Hi A 7905 will take a short to ground for some time but it will only last a short while with a voltage on the output that is greater than the input. Although, one should use a lot of filter capacitors on the rails, excessively large capacitors on the rail can cause failures when the power is turned off. One should put a diode from the input to the output that is reverse biased during normal operation. The negative regulators are also more sensitive to over voltage on the inputs. If you have a number of transformers on the same switched line, it is a good idea to add a MOV across the power to soak up any inductive spikes. I've seen this wipe out several power supplies when the fellow turned a number of units on and off with a power strip, instead of the individual power switches. It isn't a problem today with the switchers. Dwight -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Tue Mar 1 14:54:32 2005 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 12:54:32 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] IC information References: <200503011736.JAA18548@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <4224D688.756B@earthlink.net> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > A 7905 will take a short to ground for some time Negative regulators like the 7905 are more fragile and persnickety than positive regulators like the 7805. The rules and application notes about positive regulators don't quite apply to negative regulators. Or rather, there are *additional* problems for negative regulators that aren't covered in the notes on positive regulators. So, they seem to have higher failure rates. -- If you would not be forgotten When your body's dead and rotten Then write of great deeds worth the reading Or do the great deeds worth repeating -- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From wm65805 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 8 16:53:07 2005 From: wm65805 at hotmail.com (bill malcolm) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 16:53:07 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] I need a CP/M boot disk Message-ID: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 22:54:48 +0000 HI All: I need a CP/M boot disk Hard sectored -- MY disk (boot track) got trashed . I will pay $10.00 for it -- I can send money via paypal or cash. thank bill .. -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: SpamAssassinReport.txt URL: From leeahart at earthlink.net Wed Mar 9 17:01:32 2005 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 15:01:32 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] I need a CP/M boot disk References: Message-ID: <422F804C.331F@earthlink.net> bill malcolm wrote: > HI All: I need a CP/M boot disk. Hard sectored -- My disk (boot > track) got trashed. I will pay $10.00 for it -- I can send money > via paypal or cash. Bill, I can supply this. Just contact me directly via email or regular mail (my address is at the bottom of this email). Do you know which version of Heath CP/M you want -- 2.202, 2.203, or 2.204? You should pick the one that matches the rest of your disks, or you will have problems if you mix the old and new SYSGEN, MOVCPMXX, and CONFIGUR files. Even with a replacement CP/M of the same version, you still may get a "synchronization error" message if you mix up the SYSGEN and MOVCPMxx files between old and new versions. PS: your message apparently had a virus or something attached when you sent it to the sebhc at sebhc.org listserver 9see below). > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Spam detection software, running on the system "blue.berkeley.evocative.com", has > identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message > has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or block > similar future email. If you have any questions, see > the administrator of that system for details. > > Content preview: HI All: I need a CP/M boot disk Hard sectored -- MY > disk (boot track) got trashed . I will pay $10.00 for it -- I can send > money via paypal or cash. thank bill .. [...] > > Content analysis details: (5.7 points, 5.0 required) > > pts rule name description > ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- > 1.0 FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS From: ends in numbers > 0.2 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message > 0.7 HTML_50_60 BODY: Message is 50% to 60% HTML > 0.9 MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER Message-Id was added by a relay > 3.0 FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK Forged mail pretending to be from MS Outlook -- If you would not be forgotten When your body's dead and rotten Then write of great deeds worth the reading Or do the great deeds worth repeating -- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From glynf1 at cox.net Sat Mar 19 20:05:23 2005 From: glynf1 at cox.net (Glyn Firth) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 20:05:23 -0600 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [sebhc] IC information] Message-ID: <423CDA63.1010904@cox.net> I replaced the regulator, all the voltages to the 8080A are correct. But the old H8 will not boot up. I feel that the Rom ( IC 204) was fried also. Any ideas? Glyn -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Glyn Firth" Subject: Re: [sebhc] IC information Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 20:37:16 -0600 Size: 1790 URL: From garlangr at verizon.net Sat Mar 19 23:29:43 2005 From: garlangr at verizon.net (Mark Garlanger) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 23:29:43 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Z-37 Diag Disk Message-ID: <0IDM00DFDXXKLNS0@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> Does anyone have the Z-37 Diag. Disk that is described in the Z-37 Operation manual? I didn't see it in the archive. It looks like I may be able to get two Z-37 controllers, but their condition is unknown. It would be nice to be able to do more testing than to simply try it with some drives. Thanks, Mark From leeahart at earthlink.net Sun Mar 20 02:30:35 2005 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 00:30:35 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] Z-37 Diag Disk References: <0IDM00DFDXXKLNS0@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <423D34AB.7DAA@earthlink.net> Mark Garlanger wrote: > Does anyone have the Z-37 Diag. Disk that is described in the Z-37 > Operation manual? I didn't see it in the archive. It looks like > I may be able to get two Z-37 controllers, but their condition is > unknown. It would be nice to be able to do more testing than to > simply try it with some drives. Yes, I have them, and will mail you a copy. There are two; one in H17 format and one in H37 format. Basically, it is an HDOS bootable disk with the H37 test programs on it. Background: For many months now I've been trying to get a Z89-37 board working for Mark. I have a perfect Zenith board; except it doesn't work. I've changed every single IC, and checked the remaining discretes as thoroughly as I can, and it *still* doesn't work. I'm ashamed to admit I can't fix it. But, I have a stash of bare Z89-37 boards. So, I have built one of them up for Mark. But, its still shy a few parts; specifically the 25-pin Molex bus connector P2, the 16 MHz crystal oscillator U9, and the resistor networks RP1 and RP2. I'm also short some ICs (the Heath 444-81 and 444-82 PALs, WD1691, and WD2143M-03) but I can cannibalize the dead boards for them (I know the chips are good because they work on my good board). If someone can help find the missing parts, not only can I finish Mark's board, but I'll have parts so that others can build these rare boards for their H89s. -- Ring the bells that you can ring Forget your perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem" -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dave04a at dunfield.com Sun Mar 20 06:17:33 2005 From: dave04a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 07:17:33 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [sebhc] IC information] Message-ID: <20050320121732.HVLO16092.berlinr.sprint.ca@smtp.sprint.ca> >I replaced the regulator, all the voltages to the 8080A are correct. But >the old H8 will not boot up. I feel that the Rom ( IC 204) was fried >also. Any ideas? I have not checked the schematics, however it should not be a big deal to make an adapter to allow reading the ROM via a standard ROM socket (you will need to jury-rig a -5v supply if the H8 ROM needs it). PAM8 is only 1k in size, and I think the code is in the archive site. If not I can send it to you - you can also use my H8 simulator to read it in the debugger for the purposes of comparing it with the content of your device. If you need to replace it, you should also be able to make an adapter to replace it with a larger/more available ROM quite easily. Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlangr at verizon.net Sun Mar 20 10:57:23 2005 From: garlangr at verizon.net (Mark Garlanger) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 10:57:23 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Z-37 Diag Disk In-Reply-To: <423D34AB.7DAA@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <0IDN00EZHTRNCF51@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> Lee Hart wrote: > > Mark Garlanger wrote: > > Does anyone have the Z-37 Diag. Disk that is described in the Z-37 > > Operation manual? I didn't see it in the archive. It looks like > > I may be able to get two Z-37 controllers, but their condition is > > unknown. It would be nice to be able to do more testing than to > > simply try it with some drives. > > Yes, I have them, and will mail you a copy. There are two; one in H17 > format and one in H37 format. Basically, it is an HDOS bootable disk > with the H37 test programs on it. > H17 format is preferred since both I have no idea what condition the 2 controllers are in. They should hopefully ship to me in the next week or two. > If someone can help find the missing parts, not only can I finish Mark's > board, but I'll have parts so that others can build these rare boards > for their H89s. If either of these other two boards work, the one Lee is building would also be available to someone else. > Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Sun Mar 20 14:04:29 2005 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 15:04:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: [sebhc] Z-37 Diag Disk Message-ID: <200503202004.PAA29862@ss10.danlan.com> |Background: For many months now I've been trying to get a Z89-37 board |working for Mark. I have a perfect Zenith board; except it doesn't work. |I've changed every single IC, and checked the remaining discretes as |thoroughly as I can, and it *still* doesn't work. What are the symptoms? Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Sun Mar 20 17:55:41 2005 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 15:55:41 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] Z-37 Diag Disk References: <200503202004.PAA29862@ss10.danlan.com> Message-ID: <423E0D7D.4320@earthlink.net> Dan Lanciani wrote: > > |Background: For many months now I've been trying to get a Z89-37 board > |working for Mark. I have a perfect Zenith board; except it doesn't work. > |I've changed every single IC, and checked the remaining discretes as > |thoroughly as I can, and it *still* doesn't work. > > What are the symptoms? I can select the drives, control the motors, head load, etc. But when I tell it to read, I see the data coming off the disk but the disk controller won't output it to the bus. -- "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Mead -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sun Mar 20 16:25:33 2005 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 17:25:33 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Z-37 Diag Disk In-Reply-To: <423E0D7D.4320@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200503202225.j2KMPQHI000189@ms-smtp-04-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> Almost has to be a data separator problem. Your communication to the FDC chip over the bus is good, it's hard to think of anything other than the data separator. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 6:56 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] Z-37 Diag Disk Dan Lanciani wrote: > > |Background: For many months now I've been trying to get a Z89-37 board > |working for Mark. I have a perfect Zenith board; except it doesn't work. > |I've changed every single IC, and checked the remaining discretes as > |thoroughly as I can, and it *still* doesn't work. > > What are the symptoms? I can select the drives, control the motors, head load, etc. But when I tell it to read, I see the data coming off the disk but the disk controller won't output it to the bus. -- "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Mead -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From peter59 at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 20 17:13:30 2005 From: peter59 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Shkabara) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 15:13:30 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] Z-37 Diag Disk In-Reply-To: <423D34AB.7DAA@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200503202313.j2KNDJYA040616@mail.evocative.com> by smtp813.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2005 23:13:16 -0000 Hi Lee, I have quite a few (64 pieces) of the 25-pin connector AND the 10-pin connector. These were new inventory that was left over from my ANAPRO days. Let me know if you or anyone else is interested. A reminder that I also have a number of Heath/Zenith ROMs and PALs of various types from the H89. I could post the list again if anyone is interested. Our move to Fortuna, CA was back in September so I am almost organized again (as much as I was at least). Cost for the items is shipping plus whatever you think they might be worth to you (you being whoever is asking). Just send me an e-mail or post if it is of interest to others on the list. Peter ----------------------------------------------------------- peter59 at sbcglobal.net - http://www.geocities.com/anapro.geo/ Peter Shkabara / ANAPRO (Analytical Products) -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From peter59 at sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 20 17:13:30 2005 From: peter59 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Shkabara) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 15:13:30 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] Software In-Reply-To: <423D34AB.7DAA@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200503202313.j2KNDJ0V040615@mail.evocative.com> by smtp813.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2005 23:13:15 -0000 While creating my last post, I got into my H89 thinking mode. Before stopping my ANAPRO work, I was still developing version 4 or Emulate. This version combined the disk format emulation as well as the format program. There were some other improvements as well. I will no longer do any work on this, but if someone is interested in continuing this effort, I can send all the source code. It is all in Z80 assembly language. It has been a long time, but as I recall, the program was functioning, but needed some "cleanup" before it could be released. Peter ----------------------------------------------------------- peter59 at sbcglobal.net - http://www.geocities.com/anapro.geo/ -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Sun Mar 20 19:42:01 2005 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 17:42:01 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] Z-37 Diag Disk References: <200503202313.j2KNDJYA040616@mail.evocative.com> Message-ID: <423E2669.4262@earthlink.net> Peter Shkabara wrote: > > Hi Lee, > > I have quite a few (64 pieces) of the 25-pin connector AND the 10-pin > connector. These were new inventory that was left over from my ANAPRO days. That's great! I have the 10-pin, as it is a standard part from Digikey. But the 25-pin is a special order with a minimum quantity purchase. Send me your address privately, and I'll send you a check for enough for the remaining boards. On the PALs; I know the programming, and they are standard parts. But I don't hae a PAL programmer. If others want to build these boards, I'd guess we can find a way to program them. The real "problem parts" are the WD2145M-03 and WD1691. I don't have any source of these Western Digital parts except scrap boards or the outrageous parts scalpers. -- "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Mead -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Sun Mar 20 19:54:37 2005 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 17:54:37 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] Z-37 Diag Disk References: <200503202225.j2KMPQHI000189@ms-smtp-04-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> Message-ID: <423E295D.572A@earthlink.net> Barry Watzman wrote: > > Almost has to be a data separator problem. Your communication to the FDC > chip over the bus is good, it's hard to think of anything other than the > data separator. Agreed. I can talk to the registers inside the 1797 just fine, and I can read/write the parallel bits that select and control the drives fine. But something is going wrong in the data separator and read circuitry between the 1797 and the disk drive flat cable. There are no bad chips, all the logic lines are swinging high/low (no open or shorted lines), and yet it STILL won't work! -- "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Mead -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Sun Mar 20 19:50:31 2005 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 17:50:31 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] Software References: <200503202313.j2KNDJ0V040615@mail.evocative.com> Message-ID: <423E2867.7699@earthlink.net> Peter Shkabara wrote: > > While creating my last post, I got into my H89 thinking mode. Before > stopping my ANAPRO work, I was still developing version 4 or Emulate. This > version combined the disk format emulation as well as the format program. > There were some other improvements as well. I will no longer do any work on > this, but if someone is interested in continuing this effort, I can send all > the source code. It is all in Z80 assembly language. It has been a long > time, but as I recall, the program was functioning, but needed some > "cleanup" before it could be released. How strange life is! On the comp.os.cpm list, they were just talking about the need for a "product" that would allow a PC to read/write/format the unusual CP/M disk formats of the early computers (Heath, Kaypro, Osborne, etc.) Some are easy, because the semi-standard NEC765 disk controller chip used in PCs can do them. Others require the Western Digital 179x chip like the H89. Your EMULATE program correctly did all the formats I tried on my H89 with the Z89-37 board. And I have a bunch of these blank boards. The H89 CPU board is also pretty straightforward, and I have a dozen or so of them. I have mounted these boards before in a smaller box with a disk drive and controller board, as a terminal-less H89 for dedicated applications. So, all the bits may be here to make the product they wanted! -- "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Mead -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sun Mar 20 18:11:15 2005 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 19:11:15 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Z-37 Diag Disk In-Reply-To: <423E2669.4262@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200503210011.j2L0B8HI016579@ms-smtp-04-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> I was going to suggest that BG micro has a lot of old ICs, and they do have the FDC chips, but I don't see the 1691's. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 8:42 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] Z-37 Diag Disk Peter Shkabara wrote: > > Hi Lee, > > I have quite a few (64 pieces) of the 25-pin connector AND the 10-pin > connector. These were new inventory that was left over from my ANAPRO days. That's great! I have the 10-pin, as it is a standard part from Digikey. But the 25-pin is a special order with a minimum quantity purchase. Send me your address privately, and I'll send you a check for enough for the remaining boards. On the PALs; I know the programming, and they are standard parts. But I don't hae a PAL programmer. If others want to build these boards, I'd guess we can find a way to program them. The real "problem parts" are the WD2145M-03 and WD1691. I don't have any source of these Western Digital parts except scrap boards or the outrageous parts scalpers. -- "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Mead -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Mar 21 11:54:18 2005 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 09:54:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Fwd: Re: [sebhc] IC information] Message-ID: <200503211754.JAA28622@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Glyn Firth" > >I replaced the regulator, all the voltages to the 8080A are correct. But >the old H8 will not boot up. I feel that the Rom ( IC 204) was fried >also. Any ideas? >Glyn Hi Glyn You might try checking to make sure that the clocks are workking. I've had a number of failures of 8224 chips. I've also found that a bad RAM card will stop the boot as well. Try removing all but one RAM card ( if you have several ) and configure the address for the begining of RAM memory ( forgot the address ). Both ends of memory need to work. The boot code will set the stack to the end of the memory found and it will put variable and vectors into the low memory. This means both the top and bottom memory need to work. Often if you have several RAM cards, you can find one that is fuctional. It could be the ROM as well but this is rare cmpared to other problems. Dwight -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Tue Mar 22 02:38:40 2005 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 03:38:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: [sebhc] Z-37 Diag Disk Message-ID: <200503220838.DAA21990@ss10.danlan.com> |> What are the symptoms? | |I can select the drives, control the motors, head load, etc. But when I |tell it to read, I see the data coming off the disk but the disk |controller won't output it to the bus. It just never sets data ready and times out the command? Did you try a read track? |On the PALs; I know the programming, and they are standard parts. But I |don't hae a PAL programmer. If others want to build these boards, I'd |guess we can find a way to program them. I have a universal programmer if you need to make some. Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Tue Mar 22 12:51:27 2005 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 10:51:27 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] Z-37 Diag Disk References: <200503220838.DAA21990@ss10.danlan.com> Message-ID: <4240692F.4BE3@earthlink.net> Dan Lanciani wrote: > |> What are the symptoms? > |I can select the drives, control the motors, head load, etc. But > |when I tell it to read, I see the data coming off the disk but > |the disk controller won't output it to the bus. > > It just never sets data ready and times out the command? Correct. > Did you try a read track? No. I'm just using the software on the Heath diagnostic disk, which does normal sector read/write/format. > |On the PALs; I know the programming, and they are standard parts. > |But I don't hae a PAL programmer. If others want to build these > |boards, I'd guess we can find a way to program them. > > I have a universal programmer if you need to make some. Ah; good. That would be one problem solved. -- Ring the bells that you can ring Forget your perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem" -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Tue Mar 22 13:46:16 2005 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 14:46:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: [sebhc] Z-37 Diag Disk Message-ID: <200503221946.OAA28512@ss10.danlan.com> |> |I can select the drives, control the motors, head load, etc. But |> |when I tell it to read, I see the data coming off the disk but |> |the disk controller won't output it to the bus. |> |> It just never sets data ready and times out the command? | |Correct. | |> Did you try a read track? | |No. I'm just using the software on the Heath diagnostic disk, which does |normal sector read/write/format. What happens when you try to format? Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Tue Mar 22 17:16:08 2005 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 15:16:08 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] Z-37 Diag Disk References: <200503221946.OAA28512@ss10.danlan.com> Message-ID: <4240A738.722F@earthlink.net> Dan Lanciani wrote: > > |> |I can select the drives, control the motors, head load, etc. But > |> |when I tell it to read, I see the data coming off the disk but > |> |the disk controller won't output it to the bus. > |> > |> It just never sets data ready and times out the command? > | > |Correct. > | > |> Did you try a read track? > | > |No. I'm just using the software on the Heath diagnostic disk, which does > |normal sector read/write/format. > > What happens when you try to format? It goes through all the motions as if it worked; drive selects, motor runs, head load, head steps all the way thru the disk. When it finishes, it tries to verify and finds no data. -- "The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Tue Mar 22 15:27:45 2005 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:27:45 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Z-37 Diag Disk In-Reply-To: <4240A738.722F@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200503222127.j2MLRjHI012978@ms-smtp-04-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> I suspect it's writing but not reading, since we all believe that it's a data separator problem. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 6:16 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] Z-37 Diag Disk Dan Lanciani wrote: > > |> |I can select the drives, control the motors, head load, etc. But > |> |when I tell it to read, I see the data coming off the disk but > |> |the disk controller won't output it to the bus. > |> > |> It just never sets data ready and times out the command? > | > |Correct. > | > |> Did you try a read track? > | > |No. I'm just using the software on the Heath diagnostic disk, which does > |normal sector read/write/format. > > What happens when you try to format? It goes through all the motions as if it worked; drive selects, motor runs, head load, head steps all the way thru the disk. When it finishes, it tries to verify and finds no data. -- "The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Tue Mar 22 20:25:40 2005 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 21:25:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: [sebhc] Z-37 Diag Disk Message-ID: <200503230225.VAA02633@ss10.danlan.com> |> What happens when you try to format? | |It goes through all the motions as if it worked; drive selects, motor |runs, head load, head steps all the way thru the disk. When it finishes, |it tries to verify and finds no data. Does the disk so created read ok on another system? Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Tue Mar 22 22:46:42 2005 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 20:46:42 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] Z-37 Diag Disk References: <200503230225.VAA02633@ss10.danlan.com> Message-ID: <4240F4B2.3B0E@earthlink.net> Dan Lanciani wrote: > > |> What happens when you try to format? > | > |It goes through all the motions as if it worked; drive selects, motor > |runs, head load, head steps all the way thru the disk. When it finishes, > |it tries to verify and finds no data. > > Does the disk so created read ok on another system? No, it does not. However, it *is* writing something on the disk; it is no longer blank. So, I've concentrated more on getting it to read, since I can stick a disk in the drive, tell it to read, and hunt through it with a 'scope. Trouble is, it's some kind of timing abnormality, which I can't see with a simple scope. -- "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Mead -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Tue Mar 22 21:42:03 2005 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 22:42:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: [sebhc] Z-37 Diag Disk Message-ID: <200503230342.WAA03626@ss10.danlan.com> |> |> What happens when you try to format? |> | |> |It goes through all the motions as if it worked; drive selects, motor |> |runs, head load, head steps all the way thru the disk. When it finishes, |> |it tries to verify and finds no data. |> |> Does the disk so created read ok on another system? | |No, it does not. That would argue against a problem with the "data separator" (really clock recovery) circuit. What about the master clock itself? Were you able to check or swap it? I don't think I have either the unit or its schematics anymore, but I still have the H8 versions. Am I remembering correctly that the H89 version was similar except that it did not need the HLT/NOP hack for synchronization? |However, it *is* writing something on the disk; it is |no longer blank. Analysis of the disk might prove instructive... Did you try single as well as double density? |So, I've concentrated more on getting it to read, since |I can stick a disk in the drive, tell it to read, and hunt through it |with a 'scope. Trouble is, it's some kind of timing abnormality, which I |can't see with a simple scope. Writing is actually simpler than reading (especially if you aren't doing precomp) so you might want to concentrate on that for a while. I'm having trouble thinking of many problems (not already covered by swapping all the chips) that would be common to the read and write paths on the disk interface side. Almost makes me want to look at the bus side... Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Tue Mar 22 22:24:01 2005 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 23:24:01 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Z-37 Diag Disk In-Reply-To: <200503230342.WAA03626@ss10.danlan.com> Message-ID: <200503230424.j2N4O0XW010717@ms-smtp-02-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> Re: " That would argue against a problem with the "data separator"" Not necessarily. Typically, format first writes tracks and sectors, then at the very end (after writing AND VERIFYING the tracks and sectors) writes an empty directory. What could be happening is that it's writing the tracks and sectors, but when verification fails, the empty directory and operating system structures (including the boot sector and it's disk parameter tables, for Heath systems) never gets written. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Dan Lanciani Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 10:42 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] Z-37 Diag Disk |> |> What happens when you try to format? |> | |> |It goes through all the motions as if it worked; drive selects, motor |> |runs, head load, head steps all the way thru the disk. When it finishes, |> |it tries to verify and finds no data. |> |> Does the disk so created read ok on another system? | |No, it does not. That would argue against a problem with the "data separator" (really clock recovery) circuit. What about the master clock itself? Were you able to check or swap it? I don't think I have either the unit or its schematics anymore, but I still have the H8 versions. Am I remembering correctly that the H89 version was similar except that it did not need the HLT/NOP hack for synchronization? |However, it *is* writing something on the disk; it is |no longer blank. Analysis of the disk might prove instructive... Did you try single as well as double density? |So, I've concentrated more on getting it to read, since |I can stick a disk in the drive, tell it to read, and hunt through it |with a 'scope. Trouble is, it's some kind of timing abnormality, which I |can't see with a simple scope. Writing is actually simpler than reading (especially if you aren't doing precomp) so you might want to concentrate on that for a while. I'm having trouble thinking of many problems (not already covered by swapping all the chips) that would be common to the read and write paths on the disk interface side. Almost makes me want to look at the bus side... Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Wed Mar 23 00:42:42 2005 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 22:42:42 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] Z-37 Diag Disk References: <200503230342.WAA03626@ss10.danlan.com> Message-ID: <42410FE2.FB3@earthlink.net> Dan Lanciani wrote: > |> Does the disk so created read ok on another system? > |No, it does not. > > That would argue against a problem with the "data separator" > (really clock recovery) circuit. Yes. Though I think it means the one-shots may need adjusting (it uses trimpots for the write precompensation and pulse width shaping). I've taken the write problem to mean that there is more than one thing wrong. But write is easier to deal with than read. > What about the master clock itself? It's a 16 mHz crystal oscillator and divider. It seems to be at the right frequency working correctly. > Were you able to check or swap it? In fact, one of the things I want to do is unsolder it from the bad board and try it on my otherwise known good board. I haven't done that yet. It might be that its frequency is *slightly* off that I can't tell with my scope, but it's enough to cause read/write problems. It is probably significant that Heath did not use the 2.048 MHz bus clock; they instead used a crystal oscillator to get exactly 2.000 MHz. > Am I remembering correctly that the H89 version was similar except > that it did not need the HLT/NOP hack for synchronization? I haven't compared the two schematics to see. > Did you try single as well as double density? No. That could be another thing to try. -- "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Mead -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Tue Mar 22 23:26:45 2005 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 00:26:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: [sebhc] Z-37 Diag Disk Message-ID: <200503230526.AAA04716@ss10.danlan.com> |Re: " That would argue against a problem with the "data separator"" | |Not necessarily. I said it argues against it; I didn't say it was dispositive. |Typically, format first writes tracks and sectors, then at the very end |(after writing AND VERIFYING the tracks and sectors) writes an empty |directory. | |What could be happening is that it's writing the tracks and sectors, but |when verification fails, the empty directory and operating system structures |(including the boot sector and it's disk parameter tables, for Heath |systems) never gets written. Perhaps I was unclear when I asked if the disk reads correctly on another system. I meant to ask whether the format was physically correct, i.e., whether sectors could be read; not whether it contained a valid file system. If the answer is different I'll revise my diagnosis... Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Tue Mar 22 23:43:11 2005 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 00:43:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: [sebhc] Z-37 Diag Disk Message-ID: <200503230543.AAA04886@ss10.danlan.com> |> |> Does the disk so created read ok on another system? |> |No, it does not. |> |> That would argue against a problem with the "data separator" |> (really clock recovery) circuit. | |Yes. Though I think it means the one-shots may need adjusting (it uses |trimpots for the write precompensation and pulse width shaping). The pulse width is unimportant. I suppose it's possible that the precomp could be so far off that it makes the written disk unreadable, but... |I've |taken the write problem to mean that there is more than one thing wrong. I don't know. The chances of two things being wrong neither of which involves any of the swappable parts seem pretty low, unless something traumatic happened to the board. |It is |probably significant that Heath did not use the 2.048 MHz bus clock; |they instead used a crystal oscillator to get exactly 2.000 MHz. Well, 2MHz is the correct number to get the standard data rates, but you probably wouldn't see much of a problem at 2.048. In fact, I've read H17 disks (which use the latter) on a standard frequency controller and they are well within the range of the PLL. |> Did you try single as well as double density? | |No. That could be another thing to try. It should factor out the precomp generator. Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlangr at verizon.net Mon Mar 28 20:32:38 2005 From: garlangr at verizon.net (Mark Garlanger) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 20:32:38 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Z37 Calibration Message-ID: <0IE3002Z0DQFMC92@vms048.mailsrvcs.net> I just received two Z-37 controllers and noticed that the Operation manual talks about recalibration using an oscilloscope, unfortunately I don't have an oscilloscope - How critical is the calibration? I'm about to try one of the controllers in the computer, but don't have the diag disk or any other way to test them other than seeing if it can write and read from the disks. Mark -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Mon Mar 28 21:16:54 2005 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 22:16:54 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Z37 Calibration In-Reply-To: <0IE3002Z0DQFMC92@vms048.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <200503290316.j2T3GhHv004387@ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> It has to deal with the data separator. It can keep double-density "read" from working. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Mark Garlanger Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 9:33 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: [sebhc] Z37 Calibration I just received two Z-37 controllers and noticed that the Operation manual talks about recalibration using an oscilloscope, unfortunately I don't have an oscilloscope - How critical is the calibration? I'm about to try one of the controllers in the computer, but don't have the diag disk or any other way to test them other than seeing if it can write and read from the disks. Mark -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlangr at verizon.net Mon Mar 28 22:59:11 2005 From: garlangr at verizon.net (Mark Garlanger) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 22:59:11 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Z37 Calibration In-Reply-To: <200503290316.j2T3GhHv004387@ms-smtp-01-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> Message-ID: <0IE300864KIOJT60@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> I started installing the board and have a few additional questions. In the Install manual, it says the PROM 444-84 belongs in socket U518, but the three extra PROMs, which I received with the board didn't include one with that number. Two matched the manual and the extra one not specified in the manual says 444-142. I'm assuming this one supersedes the 444-84, since the system Lee built for me has that PROM already inserted in that position (along with the correct two PROMs for the other two locations), can anyone verify that this is correct? Also, the manual mentions a '20-pin plug with jumper' to replace the chip in socket U558. I didn't get that piece. Is it simply a jumper between pins 1 & 8 (what it appears from the illustration)? Or is it something more? Luckily, the equipment I received included the 16-conductor cable. The only other thing I'm missing is the cable from the Z-89-37 to the back of the case. Once, get these issues sorted out, I should be able to finish the install, although I'll probably need to see if someone at work has an oscilloscope I can borrow. Thanks, Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf > Of Barry Watzman > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 9:17 PM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: RE: [sebhc] Z37 Calibration > > It has to deal with the data separator. It can keep double-density "read" > from working. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf > Of > Mark Garlanger > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 9:33 PM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: [sebhc] Z37 Calibration > > I just received two Z-37 controllers and noticed that the Operation manual > talks about recalibration using an oscilloscope, unfortunately I don't > have > an oscilloscope - How critical is the calibration? > > I'm about to try one of the controllers in the computer, but don't have > the > diag disk or any other way to test them other than seeing if it can write > and read from the disks. > > Mark > > > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlangr at verizon.net Tue Mar 29 23:39:19 2005 From: garlangr at verizon.net (Mark Garlanger) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 23:39:19 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Z37 Calibration In-Reply-To: <0IE300864KIOJT60@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <0IE500HDIH1LBVT0@vms046.mailsrvcs.net> Hi All, I got the H-89-37 controller installed, I can NOT believe how little room there is to work in the H-89. Getting all the cables and boards - disconnected, reconnected, and routed in the computer just about drove me crazy. I got everything back together, and was able to boot my hard-sectored disks, but I don't have any bootable soft-sectored disks to try. I was able to get the two drives connected to the soft-sectored controller to turn-on and light-up when I did a 'Boot SD0' or 'Boot SD1'. But, I'm currently at a loss on how to create new bootable soft-sectored disks. I thought, I just needed to use 'configur', but when I run it - it only lists the H17 and the one drive connected to it. It does not list the H37 or the two drives connected it. I haven't used CP/M for about 20 years so I may not be doing this right (I also tried to playing around with 'movcpm37', but it didn't work since I was unable to access to the soft-sectored disk). Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf > Of Mark Garlanger > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 10:59 PM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: RE: [sebhc] Z37 Calibration > > I started installing the board and have a few additional questions. In > the > Install manual, it says the PROM 444-84 belongs in socket U518, but the > three extra PROMs, which I received with the board didn't include one with > that number. Two matched the manual and the extra one not specified in the > manual says 444-142. I'm assuming this one supersedes the 444-84, since > the > system Lee built for me has that PROM already inserted in that position > (along with the correct two PROMs for the other two locations), can anyone > verify that this is correct? > > Also, the manual mentions a '20-pin plug with jumper' to replace the chip > in > socket U558. I didn't get that piece. Is it simply a jumper between pins 1 > & > 8 (what it appears from the illustration)? Or is it something more? > > Luckily, the equipment I received included the 16-conductor cable. > > The only other thing I'm missing is the cable from the Z-89-37 to the back > of the case. > > Once, get these issues sorted out, I should be able to finish the install, > although I'll probably need to see if someone at work has an oscilloscope > I > can borrow. > > Thanks, > Mark > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf > > Of Barry Watzman > > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 9:17 PM > > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > > Subject: RE: [sebhc] Z37 Calibration > > > > It has to deal with the data separator. It can keep double-density > "read" > > from working. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf > > Of > > Mark Garlanger > > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 9:33 PM > > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > > Subject: [sebhc] Z37 Calibration > > > > I just received two Z-37 controllers and noticed that the Operation > manual > > talks about recalibration using an oscilloscope, unfortunately I don't > > have > > an oscilloscope - How critical is the calibration? > > > > I'm about to try one of the controllers in the computer, but don't have > > the > > diag disk or any other way to test them other than seeing if it can > write > > and read from the disks. > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Tue Mar 29 23:52:58 2005 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 00:52:58 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Z37 Calibration In-Reply-To: <0IE500HDIH1LBVT0@vms046.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <200503300553.j2U5qvYG003573@ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> I don't remember, but the format program should recognize both controllers if the version of the OS was post-Z-89-37, then for CP/M, you can run MOVCPM37, and then do "Sysgen" -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Mark Garlanger Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 12:39 AM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: RE: [sebhc] Z37 Calibration Hi All, I got the H-89-37 controller installed, I can NOT believe how little room there is to work in the H-89. Getting all the cables and boards - disconnected, reconnected, and routed in the computer just about drove me crazy. I got everything back together, and was able to boot my hard-sectored disks, but I don't have any bootable soft-sectored disks to try. I was able to get the two drives connected to the soft-sectored controller to turn-on and light-up when I did a 'Boot SD0' or 'Boot SD1'. But, I'm currently at a loss on how to create new bootable soft-sectored disks. I thought, I just needed to use 'configur', but when I run it - it only lists the H17 and the one drive connected to it. It does not list the H37 or the two drives connected it. I haven't used CP/M for about 20 years so I may not be doing this right (I also tried to playing around with 'movcpm37', but it didn't work since I was unable to access to the soft-sectored disk). Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf > Of Mark Garlanger > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 10:59 PM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: RE: [sebhc] Z37 Calibration > > I started installing the board and have a few additional questions. In > the > Install manual, it says the PROM 444-84 belongs in socket U518, but the > three extra PROMs, which I received with the board didn't include one with > that number. Two matched the manual and the extra one not specified in the > manual says 444-142. I'm assuming this one supersedes the 444-84, since > the > system Lee built for me has that PROM already inserted in that position > (along with the correct two PROMs for the other two locations), can anyone > verify that this is correct? > > Also, the manual mentions a '20-pin plug with jumper' to replace the chip > in > socket U558. I didn't get that piece. Is it simply a jumper between pins 1 > & > 8 (what it appears from the illustration)? Or is it something more? > > Luckily, the equipment I received included the 16-conductor cable. > > The only other thing I'm missing is the cable from the Z-89-37 to the back > of the case. > > Once, get these issues sorted out, I should be able to finish the install, > although I'll probably need to see if someone at work has an oscilloscope > I > can borrow. > > Thanks, > Mark > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf > > Of Barry Watzman > > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 9:17 PM > > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > > Subject: RE: [sebhc] Z37 Calibration > > > > It has to deal with the data separator. It can keep double-density > "read" > > from working. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf > > Of > > Mark Garlanger > > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 9:33 PM > > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > > Subject: [sebhc] Z37 Calibration > > > > I just received two Z-37 controllers and noticed that the Operation > manual > > talks about recalibration using an oscilloscope, unfortunately I don't > > have > > an oscilloscope - How critical is the calibration? > > > > I'm about to try one of the controllers in the computer, but don't have > > the > > diag disk or any other way to test them other than seeing if it can > write > > and read from the disks. > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Wed Mar 30 12:48:50 2005 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 10:48:50 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] Z37 Calibration References: <0IE500HDIH1LBVT0@vms046.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <424AF492.6C72@earthlink.net> Mark Garlanger wrote: > I got the H-89-37 controller installed, I can NOT believe how > little room there is to work in the H-89. Getting all the cables > and boards disconnected, reconnected, and routed in the computer > just about drove me crazy. It seems bad, but it isn't. It all fits together "just so". Like packing a suitcase, you have to install each piece in order, and route the cables as shown in the illustrations, and it all fits neatly. > I'm currently at a loss on how to create new bootable soft-sectored > disks. First, you need the Heath CP/M master disks, which have all the files you need. It needs to be at least version 2.203 to have the support files for the soft-sector controller. Basically, you run the MAKEBIOS proceedure, to make a new BIOS to support both the H17 and H37 controllers. Heath documents the proceedure pretty well, but it is tedious (especially with only a single H17 drive!). When it finishes, you'll have a bootable H17 disk that *will* talk to the H37. Next, you use this new CP/M to format a soft-sector H37 disk. Then, use MOVCPM37 to make it bootable. PIP whatever files you want from the H17 to the H37 disk. Now you have a bootable H37 disk, and can ignore the H17 from then on. -- "The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlangr at verizon.net Wed Mar 30 23:14:38 2005 From: garlangr at verizon.net (Mark Garlanger) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 23:14:38 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Z37 Calibration In-Reply-To: <424AF492.6C72@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <0IE70022BAKIB0I0@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> > Lee Hart wrote: > > Mark Garlanger wrote: > > I got the H-89-37 controller installed, I can NOT believe how > > little room there is to work in the H-89. Getting all the cables > > and boards disconnected, reconnected, and routed in the computer > > just about drove me crazy. > > It seems bad, but it isn't. It all fits together "just so". Like packing > a suitcase, you have to install each piece in order, and route the > cables as shown in the illustrations, and it all fits neatly. > Maybe once you get used to it, but it's much harder than installing any board in a post-IBM PC system ;-) I was able to reconnect easily reconnect all the cables except for the serial ports. I have no idea which serial cable belonged with which port, I guess connectors on the back will just be random. Also, from the shipping damage, the CPU board does not set all the way down on the right side. > > I'm currently at a loss on how to create new bootable soft-sectored > > disks. > > First, you need the Heath CP/M master disks, which have all the files > you need. It needs to be at least version 2.203 to have the support > files for the soft-sector controller. > > Basically, you run the MAKEBIOS proceedure, to make a new BIOS to > support both the H17 and H37 controllers. Heath documents the proceedure > pretty well, but it is tedious (especially with only a single H17 > drive!). When it finishes, you'll have a bootable H17 disk that *will* > talk to the H37. Great this helped. Makebios was the step I was missing. Looked like whoever wrote the PREL.COM program, didn't expect it to be run with one floppy, it appeared to read and write only one sector at a time. > > Next, you use this new CP/M to format a soft-sector H37 disk. Then, use > MOVCPM37 to make it bootable. PIP whatever files you want from the H17 > to the H37 disk. Now you have a bootable H37 disk, and can ignore the > H17 from then on. When I was formatting disks, it sounded like it was working, but after about 30 seconds, it came back with an "Unable to format this disk" error message. I'm using drives I had not tested before so I don't know if it is the controller or the drives, but I did try two different 5.25" drives and one 3.5" drive and got the same message. I guess I'll wait for the Z37 diag disk and see if it can narrow down the problem. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Mar 31 11:34:25 2005 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 09:34:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sebhc] Z37 Calibration Message-ID: <200503311734.JAA05107@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Mark Garlanger" ---snip--- > >When I was formatting disks, it sounded like it was working, but after about >30 seconds, it came back with an "Unable to format this disk" error message. >I'm using drives I had not tested before so I don't know if it is the >controller or the drives, but I did try two different 5.25" drives and one >3.5" drive and got the same message. I guess I'll wait for the Z37 diag disk >and see if it can narrow down the problem. > Hi You need to use a 360K drive. I suspect that the 5.25 you have is a 1.2M and it won't work with the 3.5. These are 1.44M. Dwight -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From peter59 at sbcglobal.net Thu Mar 31 13:17:53 2005 From: peter59 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Shkabara) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:17:53 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] Z37 Calibration In-Reply-To: <200503311734.JAA05107@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <200503311917.j2VJHoYT029263@mail.evocative.com> by smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Mar 2005 19:17:49 -0000 Actually, the H37 controller will work just fine with 3.5 inch drives, but they need to be in the 720k mode. I don't know if some newer 3.5 drives include this mode or not, but I would suspect that they should to read the older format disks. Peter ----------------------------------------------------------- peter59 at sbcglobal.net - http://www.geocities.com/anapro.geo/ > -----Original Message----- > You need to use a 360K drive. I suspect that the 5.25 > you have is a 1.2M and it won't work with the 3.5. These > are 1.44M. > Dwight -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Thu Mar 31 15:43:08 2005 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 13:43:08 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] Z37 Calibration References: <200503311917.j2VJHoYT029263@mail.evocative.com> Message-ID: <424C6EEC.6232@earthlink.net> Dwight wrote: >> You need to use a 360K drive. I suspect that the 5.25 you have >> is a 1.2M and it won't work with the 3.5. These are 1.44M. Peter Shkabara wrote: > Actually, the H37 controller will work just fine with 3.5 inch > drives, but they need to be in the 720k mode. I don't know if > some newer 3.5 drives include this mode or not, but I would > suspect that they should to read the older format disks. The situation is complicated. Some 1.2meg 5.25" drives can operate as 720k (what the H89 calls 800k) drives. To do so, they need a switchble rotational speed. But since this feature isn't used in PCs, it is often left out. Some 1.44meg 3.5" drives can operate as 720k (H89 800k format, but on a 3.5" disk). Again, this requires a switchable rotational speed. And again, this feature isn't used in recent PCs, and so is left out of most drives. So, you have to know if the drives you have are switchable or not; and if they are, you need to set the jumpers or program the I/O lines to set the correct speed. If you have a 1.44meg 3.5" or 1.2meg 5.25" drive that is NOT switchable, the only way to use it with the H89 is with a Magnolia or CDR controller board, configured to treat these as if they were 8" 1.2meg drives. -- If you would not be forgotten When your body's dead and rotten Then write of great deeds worth the reading Or do the great deeds worth repeating -- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Thu Mar 31 13:50:44 2005 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:50:44 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Z37 Calibration In-Reply-To: <424C6EEC.6232@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200503311950.j2VJofXW003949@ms-smtp-02-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> Lee, I'm not aware of any 3.5" drives that ever run at anything other than 300rpm As to 5.25" high density drives, some change speed, but in other systems, the speed is locked down and the "change" is made by changing the bit rate into and out of the controller -- not using the "standard" bit rates. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 4:43 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] Z37 Calibration Dwight wrote: >> You need to use a 360K drive. I suspect that the 5.25 you have >> is a 1.2M and it won't work with the 3.5. These are 1.44M. Peter Shkabara wrote: > Actually, the H37 controller will work just fine with 3.5 inch > drives, but they need to be in the 720k mode. I don't know if > some newer 3.5 drives include this mode or not, but I would > suspect that they should to read the older format disks. The situation is complicated. Some 1.2meg 5.25" drives can operate as 720k (what the H89 calls 800k) drives. To do so, they need a switchble rotational speed. But since this feature isn't used in PCs, it is often left out. Some 1.44meg 3.5" drives can operate as 720k (H89 800k format, but on a 3.5" disk). Again, this requires a switchable rotational speed. And again, this feature isn't used in recent PCs, and so is left out of most drives. So, you have to know if the drives you have are switchable or not; and if they are, you need to set the jumpers or program the I/O lines to set the correct speed. If you have a 1.44meg 3.5" or 1.2meg 5.25" drive that is NOT switchable, the only way to use it with the H89 is with a Magnolia or CDR controller board, configured to treat these as if they were 8" 1.2meg drives. -- If you would not be forgotten When your body's dead and rotten Then write of great deeds worth the reading Or do the great deeds worth repeating -- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Thu Mar 31 16:25:13 2005 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:25:13 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] Z37 Calibration References: <200503311950.j2VJofXW003949@ms-smtp-02-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> Message-ID: <424C78C9.91D@earthlink.net> Barry Watzman wrote: > Lee, I'm not aware of any 3.5" drives that ever run at anything > other than 300 rpm. Apple Mac 3.5" 400k drives are variable speed. -- If you would not be forgotten When your body's dead and rotten Then write of great deeds worth the reading Or do the great deeds worth repeating -- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Thu Mar 31 15:13:14 2005 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 16:13:14 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Z37 Calibration In-Reply-To: <424C78C9.91D@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200503312113.j2VLDBHI008900@ms-smtp-04-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> We are talking about industry-standard drives used with standard controllers, not about the Apple "super-drive" -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:25 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] Z37 Calibration Barry Watzman wrote: > Lee, I'm not aware of any 3.5" drives that ever run at anything > other than 300 rpm. Apple Mac 3.5" 400k drives are variable speed. -- If you would not be forgotten When your body's dead and rotten Then write of great deeds worth the reading Or do the great deeds worth repeating -- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Thu Mar 31 18:14:49 2005 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 16:14:49 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] Z37 Calibration References: <200503312113.j2VLDBHI008900@ms-smtp-04-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com> Message-ID: <424C9279.505F@earthlink.net> Barry Watzman wrote: > We are talking about industry-standard drives used with standard > controllers, not about the Apple "super-drive" Ok; the 3.5" drive in my Compaq LTE/Lite portable changes speed between 720k and 1.44meg modes. -- If you would not be forgotten When your body's dead and rotten Then write of great deeds worth the reading Or do the great deeds worth repeating -- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From peter59 at sbcglobal.net Thu Mar 31 20:06:13 2005 From: peter59 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Shkabara) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:06:13 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] auto key repeat for H19/H89 Message-ID: <200504010206.j31269fU037787@mail.evocative.com> by smtp817.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Apr 2005 02:06:08 -0000 This may be for Lee Hart, but someone else might be interested so I decided to post this message. I no longer have any circuit boards for my AutoRep key repeat module. However, I do have the circuit board masks and some parts. Since I no longer am inclined to manufacture circuit boards the way I did in my younger, more impetuous days, I offer this task to someone else. There was still a fair amount of interest in these circuits when my supply of boards ran out. The late Henry Fale had wanted to order more of them at that time. However, it did not seem prudent to have another commercial run made. Ok - is anyone of you list readers interested? Drop me a note and we can take it from there. Peter ----------------------------------------------------------- peter59 at sbcglobal.net - http://www.geocities.com/anapro.geo/ From peter59 at sbcglobal.net Thu Mar 31 20:19:21 2005 From: peter59 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Shkabara) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:19:21 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] Z37 Calibration In-Reply-To: <424C6EEC.6232@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200504010219.j312JJDD037992@mail.evocative.com> by smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Apr 2005 02:19:16 -0000 There was also an article in REMark (as I recall) that showed how to modify the H37 controller to read 8-inch disks. This would in effect make the modified H37 equivalent to a CDR controller. Peter ----------------------------------------------------------- peter59 at sbcglobal.net - http://www.geocities.com/anapro.geo/ > -----Original Message----- > If you have a 1.44meg 3.5" or 1.2meg 5.25" drive that is NOT > switchable, > the only way to use it with the H89 is with a Magnolia or CDR > controller > board, configured to treat these as if they were 8" 1.2meg drives. > -- > Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 > leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlangr at verizon.net Thu Mar 31 21:00:24 2005 From: garlangr at verizon.net (Mark Garlanger) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 21:00:24 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Z37 Calibration In-Reply-To: <200503311734.JAA05107@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <0IE8002OVZ0RH8I0@vms042.mailsrvcs.net> The two 5.25" drives are Full-Height Tandom TM100-4, these should be 96 tpi drives. The 3.5" drive is 720k. I got both 5.25"'s and the 3.5" from ebay. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf > Of Dwight K. Elvey > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 11:34 AM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: RE: [sebhc] Z37 Calibration > > >From: "Mark Garlanger" > ---snip--- > > > > >When I was formatting disks, it sounded like it was working, but after > about > >30 seconds, it came back with an "Unable to format this disk" error > message. > >I'm using drives I had not tested before so I don't know if it is the > >controller or the drives, but I did try two different 5.25" drives and > one > >3.5" drive and got the same message. I guess I'll wait for the Z37 diag > disk > >and see if it can narrow down the problem. > > > > Hi > You need to use a 360K drive. I suspect that the 5.25 > you have is a 1.2M and it won't work with the 3.5. These > are 1.44M. > Dwight > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List