From sp11 at hotmail.com Sun Jul 2 22:35:13 2006 From: sp11 at hotmail.com (Steven Parker) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 03:35:13 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] Complete HDOS-2 listings archived In-Reply-To: <44986108.6010703@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 03:35:13 GMT Walt sent me some more of the HDOS-2 listings to scan. I think the set is complete now. http://www.sebhc.org/archive/documents/software/HDOS-2/HOS-1-SL_595-2466-01/ Anyone got an OCR smart enough to ignore the sub-period size horizon dots on the paper? :-) -- Steven -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Mon Jul 3 02:26:07 2006 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 02:26:07 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. Message-ID: <704e82240607030026l2232b16bue366819e85373bb7@mail.gmail.com> Does anyone know what the power up beeps mean? One of my H89's beeps twice on power-up (on-line) and once if off-line key is depressed. This H89 works fine. Another one I recently received, only beeps once on power-up (on-line) and zero (off-line). It was initially working fine, but now the keyboard no longer works (except for the 'shift-reset' combo), all other keys don't even keyclick (they had initially). It doesn't matter with if it's on-line or off-line, no keys work except for the 'shift-reset'. Between the time it was working and now, during a few power-ups the screen the screen went a little crazy, for example, the "H:" was shaking and showing up in two places, another time various characters showed up on the screen. I'm wondering if a CAP or other component failed. I've looked through the operation/service manual, that have, but it provided no trouble-shooting except for the power supply or video. First, I was thinking the cable to the keyboard may have been loose, but since the reset works, I doubt that is the issue. Without the keyboard, the only diag I could get to is the memory test (by setting switch SW501). That test runs without any errors. If anyone has any ideas why the keyboard would suddenly stop working or what areas I can look at, let me know, otherwise it looks like it may become my spare-parts machine. BTW: The memory is installed strangely in the system. The top row of memory ICs have a second memory chip soldiered on top of each one, along with a wire that connects them all to one of the lines on the slot that you would normally install the extra memory card to bump it up to 64k. This must have been a cheaper way to get to 64k than adding the board. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From rogbirk at gra.midco.net Mon Jul 3 06:24:37 2006 From: rogbirk at gra.midco.net (Roger Birkholz) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 06:24:37 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. References: <704e82240607030026l2232b16bue366819e85373bb7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001a01c69e93$45056380$3d53dc18@midco.net> Does the keyboard have a connector on the cable? If the unit was stored in a damp area there may be a small amount of corrosion on the connector pins. Just a thought. > Does anyone know what the power up beeps mean? One of my H89's beeps > twice on power-up (on-line) and once if off-line key is depressed. > This H89 works fine. Another one I recently received, only beeps once > on power-up (on-line) and zero (off-line). It was initially working > fine, but now the keyboard no longer works (except for the > 'shift-reset' combo), all other keys don't even keyclick (they had > initially). It doesn't matter with if it's on-line or off-line, no > keys work except for the 'shift-reset'. > > Between the time it was working and now, during a few power-ups the > screen the screen went a little crazy, for example, the "H:" was > shaking and showing up in two places, another time various characters > showed up on the screen. I'm wondering if a CAP or other component > failed. I've looked through the operation/service manual, that have, > but it provided no trouble-shooting except for the power supply or > video. First, I was thinking the cable to the keyboard may have been > loose, but since the reset works, I doubt that is the issue. Without > the keyboard, the only diag I could get to is the memory test (by > setting switch SW501). That test runs without any errors. > > If anyone has any ideas why the keyboard would suddenly stop working > or what areas I can look at, let me know, otherwise it looks like it > may become my spare-parts machine. > > BTW: The memory is installed strangely in the system. The top row of > memory ICs have a second memory chip soldiered on top of each one, > along with a wire that connects them all to one of the lines on the > slot that you would normally install the extra memory card to bump it > up to 64k. This must have been a cheaper way to get to 64k than adding > the board. > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 - Release Date: 6/30/06 > > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com Mon Jul 3 08:27:58 2006 From: RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com (West, Ronald S.) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 09:27:58 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Complete HDOS-2 listings archived Message-ID: <58FCC1586AD7884BB367EA05255643BC1084BB@0015-its-exmb05.us.saic.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/plain rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Size: 973 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sp11 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 3 09:39:47 2006 From: sp11 at hotmail.com (Steven Parker) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 14:39:47 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] scanning listings In-Reply-To: <58FCC1586AD7884BB367EA05255643BC1084BB@0015-its-exmb05.us.saic.com> Message-ID: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 14:39:47 GMT >Let me be the first to say bravo for doing a nice job of scanning these in. >It must have been a real pain in the neck to get done. Not so much. Walt had already unbound them, and perhaps you missed my eariler message about my workplace acquiring a new high-speed self-feeding duplex scanner. And it internaly creates the PDF files. :-) And I still have the "landscape tablet" template I set up when I scanned in my own HDOS 1.6 set. -- Steven -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From jmacgraith at cox.net Tue Jul 4 19:52:21 2006 From: jmacgraith at cox.net (jmacgraith at cox.net) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 20:52:21 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. Message-ID: <25665013.1152060741683.JavaMail.root@eastrmwml01.mgt.cox.net> Mark, I believe the second beep indicates the operating system is up. When mine only beeped once, I had no "H:" prompt. It seemed to be associated with a bad connection at the 4 pin connector on the top of the motherboard. I have the same problem with my keyboard. I haven't found a solution yet, but most of my problems have been corrosion/connection related. Jack ---- Mark Garlanger wrote: > Does anyone know what the power up beeps mean? One of my H89's beeps > twice on power-up (on-line) and once if off-line key is depressed. > This H89 works fine. Another one I recently received, only beeps once > on power-up (on-line) and zero (off-line). It was initially working > fine, but now the keyboard no longer works (except for the > 'shift-reset' combo), all other keys don't even keyclick (they had > initially). It doesn't matter with if it's on-line or off-line, no > keys work except for the 'shift-reset'. > > Between the time it was working and now, during a few power-ups the > screen the screen went a little crazy, for example, the "H:" was > shaking and showing up in two places, another time various characters > showed up on the screen. I'm wondering if a CAP or other component > failed. I've looked through the operation/service manual, that have, > but it provided no trouble-shooting except for the power supply or > video. First, I was thinking the cable to the keyboard may have been > loose, but since the reset works, I doubt that is the issue. Without > the keyboard, the only diag I could get to is the memory test (by > setting switch SW501). That test runs without any errors. > > If anyone has any ideas why the keyboard would suddenly stop working > or what areas I can look at, let me know, otherwise it looks like it > may become my spare-parts machine. > > BTW: The memory is installed strangely in the system. The top row of > memory ICs have a second memory chip soldiered on top of each one, > along with a wire that connects them all to one of the lines on the > slot that you would normally install the extra memory card to bump it > up to 64k. This must have been a cheaper way to get to 64k than adding > the board. > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From billwilkinson at mindspring.com Tue Jul 4 21:06:38 2006 From: billwilkinson at mindspring.com (William Wilkinson) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 21:06:38 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. Message-ID: <380-220067352638843@mindspring.com> Mark, The H89 computer is basically an H19 terminal with a CPU board added. Instead of the terminal serial port connecting to the outside world, it connects to a serial port on the CPU board. This isn't the H88-3, but an onboard circuit known as the Console Serial Port.. When an H19 powered up, its terminal logic board (TLB) would beep the speaker once to indicate that it was ready. In an H89, the TLB will still beep once while the CPU board is initializing itself. Once done, the CPU board sends a control-G through its Console Serial Port to the serial port on the TLB, which in turn beeps the speaker for the second time. If everything's normal and the CPU is on line, you'll hear two beeps. One beep and the TLB board is probably okay, but the CPU board is either bad or it's off line. No beep and the TLB should be suspected (assuming a good power supply, etc.). The console serial port on the CPU board consists U559, U560, and U561. The serial connector is P513. Its counterpart on the TLB is U451, U452, and U453. The serial connector is J404. The keyboard is processed through the TLB by U431. There's also a Z80 on the TLB, U421, which ties everything together on that board. I don't recall how thoroughly it tested the TLB circuits before sending a beep to the CPU board, however. It's possible that there may be a bad electrolytic, but I think I'd try the old standby of reseating the components first...just in case it's an intermittent socket connection. Regards, Bill Wilkinson > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Cc: Mark Garlanger > Date: 7/4/2006 7:59:59 PM > Subject: Re: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. > > Mark, > I believe the second beep indicates the operating system is up. When mine only beeped once, I had no "H:" prompt. It seemed to be associated with a bad connection at the 4 pin connector on the top of the motherboard. > I have the same problem with my keyboard. I haven't found a solution yet, but most of my problems have been corrosion/connection related. > Jack > ---- Mark Garlanger wrote: > > Does anyone know what the power up beeps mean? One of my H89's beeps > > twice on power-up (on-line) and once if off-line key is depressed. > > This H89 works fine. Another one I recently received, only beeps once > > on power-up (on-line) and zero (off-line). It was initially working > > fine, but now the keyboard no longer works (except for the > > 'shift-reset' combo), all other keys don't even keyclick (they had > > initially). It doesn't matter with if it's on-line or off-line, no > > keys work except for the 'shift-reset'. > > > > Between the time it was working and now, during a few power-ups the > > screen the screen went a little crazy, for example, the "H:" was > > shaking and showing up in two places, another time various characters > > showed up on the screen. I'm wondering if a CAP or other component > > failed. I've looked through the operation/service manual, that have, > > but it provided no trouble-shooting except for the power supply or > > video. First, I was thinking the cable to the keyboard may have been > > loose, but since the reset works, I doubt that is the issue. Without > > the keyboard, the only diag I could get to is the memory test (by > > setting switch SW501). That test runs without any errors. > > > > If anyone has any ideas why the keyboard would suddenly stop working > > or what areas I can look at, let me know, otherwise it looks like it > > may become my spare-parts machine. > > > > BTW: The memory is installed strangely in the system. The top row of > > memory ICs have a second memory chip soldiered on top of each one, > > along with a wire that connects them all to one of the lines on the > > slot that you would normally install the extra memory card to bump it > > up to 64k. This must have been a cheaper way to get to 64k than adding > > the board. > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From wm65805 at hotmail.com Wed Jul 5 10:44:34 2006 From: wm65805 at hotmail.com (bill malcolm) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 10:44:34 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Complete HDOS-2 listings archived References: Message-ID: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 15:46:16 +0000 Thanks for the Great Work. I plan to work on turning it into a Plain Text File later this fall bill .. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Parker" To: Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 10:35 PM Subject: [sebhc] Complete HDOS-2 listings archived > Walt sent me some more of the HDOS-2 listings to scan. I think the set is > complete now. > > http://www.sebhc.org/archive/documents/software/HDOS-2/HOS-1-SL_595-2466-01/ > > Anyone got an OCR smart enough to ignore the sub-period size horizon dots on > the paper? :-) > > -- Steven > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Wed Jul 5 20:33:40 2006 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 20:33:40 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. References: <704e82240607030026l2232b16bue366819e85373bb7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44AC6874.56FA7E42@earthlink.net> Mark Garlanger wrote: > Does anyone know what the power up beeps mean? The TLB and CPU boards each independently generate a "beep" when they are powered up. The speaker plugs into the TLB, so you get one "beep" for an H19 trminal, or for an H89 with the OFF-LINE key depressed. This first "beep" tells you that the TLB has power, and that its Z80 is running and executing software (even if incorrectly). It will "beep" again each time the TLB is reset. The CPU board in an H88/89/90 generates a separate "beep" when it is powered up or reset. To hear this as a second "beep", the TLB needs to be working, and on-line (i.e. the OFF-LINE key is up). This "beep" is sent to the TLB serially as a software command at the same time as the "H:" prompt. It indicates that the CPU board's Z80 is running the monitor program. Note that the timing of these "beeps" is set independently by the R-C networks on each board that control the power-on Reset. Old TLB and CPU boards tended to have long delays; later ones had shorter delays. It's possible to swap boards so you have a long delay on the TLB and a short delay on the CPU -- when this happens, the CPU board sends its "beep" before the TLB has started running, so you only get one "beep" even though nothing is wrong. > working fine, but now the keyboard no longer works (except for the > 'shift-reset' combo), all other keys don't even keyclick (they had > initially). The keyboard encoder chip is an old PMOS part, and pretty sensitive to static damage. Touching the bare keyboard connector pins or traces to the keyboard can kill it. If the problem isn't something simple like the ribbon cable to the keyboard being unplugged, you may have a bad keyboard encoder IC. > Between the time it was working and now, during a few power-ups the > screen the screen went a little crazy, for example, the "H:" was > shaking and showing up in two places, another time various characters > showed up on the screen. I'm wondering if a CAP or other component > failed. These symptoms both point to problems on the TLB. I'd check the supply voltages. The TLB needs +8v, +16v, and -16v to work. It has onboard regulators to convert these to +5v, -5v, +12v, and -12v. > BTW: The memory is installed strangely in the system. The top row of > memory ICs have a second memory chip soldiered on top of each one, > along with a wire that connects them all to one of the lines on the > slot that you would normally install the extra memory card to bump it > up to 64k. This must have been a cheaper way to get to 64k than adding > the board. Right. This is a 'quick and dirty' way to upgrade to 64k of RAM without any extra PC boards. -- Ring the bells that you can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_ at _earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Wed Jul 5 20:51:25 2006 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 20:51:25 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Complete HDOS-2 listings archived In-Reply-To: Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <000601c6a09e$b08a04f0$176fa8c0@obie> Thanks Steven! > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org > [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Steven Parker > Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 10:35 PM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: [sebhc] Complete HDOS-2 listings archived > > > Walt sent me some more of the HDOS-2 listings to scan. I > think the set is > complete now. > http://www.sebhc.org/archive/documents/software/HDOS-2/HOS-1-SL_595-2466 -01/ Anyone got an OCR smart enough to ignore the sub-period size horizon dots on the paper? :-) -- Steven -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 - Release Date: 6/30/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006 -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Fri Jul 7 13:11:37 2006 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 14:11:37 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H8-17 controller Message-ID: <44AEA3D9.7040306@sc.rr.com> does anyone have an H8-17 disk controller they are willing to sell? Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From davidwallace2000 at comcast.net Fri Jul 7 13:57:38 2006 From: davidwallace2000 at comcast.net (davidwallace2000 at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 18:57:38 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] Complete HDOS-2 listings archived Message-ID: <070720061857.22689.44AEAEA2000960D8000058A12205886172CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 2471 bytes Desc: not available URL: From garlanger at gmail.com Fri Jul 7 16:57:10 2006 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 16:57:10 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. In-Reply-To: <44AC6874.56FA7E42@earthlink.net> References: <704e82240607030026l2232b16bue366819e85373bb7@mail.gmail.com> <44AC6874.56FA7E42@earthlink.net> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <704e82240607071457h6265a80eva34811e08edff3f8@mail.gmail.com> Hi Guys, Thanks for all the suggestions. When I last turned off that H89 (about 3-4 days ago), it was still having the problem. Today, the keyboard is working (although not as good as on my other H89). Several of the keys seem to have problems with repeated characters (as if the debouncing circuitry is not working well). Several of the keys will intermittently generate 2 (or more) characters when I press it (more likely if I press it slowly). Also, the '4' key will intermittently not register on the key press, but will on the key release ( and sometimes on both). It doesn't seem like all the keys have the problem (not even all the keys in a given row). On my other H89, I am unable to get any of the keys to act this way. Is there any trick to popping off the keys? Maybe they need cleaning underneath. BTW: It still usually only beeps once even though the computer part is working. It could be the timings that Lee mentioned below, since once (out of about 10), it did beep twice. Thanks, Mark On 7/5/06, Lee Hart wrote: > Mark Garlanger wrote: > > Does anyone know what the power up beeps mean? > > The TLB and CPU boards each independently generate a "beep" when they > are powered up. The speaker plugs into the TLB, so you get one "beep" > for an H19 trminal, or for an H89 with the OFF-LINE key depressed. > > This first "beep" tells you that the TLB has power, and that its Z80 is > running and executing software (even if incorrectly). It will "beep" > again each time the TLB is reset. > > The CPU board in an H88/89/90 generates a separate "beep" when it is > powered up or reset. To hear this as a second "beep", the TLB needs to > be working, and on-line (i.e. the OFF-LINE key is up). This "beep" is > sent to the TLB serially as a software command at the same time as the > "H:" prompt. It indicates that the CPU board's Z80 is running the > monitor program. > > Note that the timing of these "beeps" is set independently by the R-C > networks on each board that control the power-on Reset. Old TLB and CPU > boards tended to have long delays; later ones had shorter delays. It's > possible to swap boards so you have a long delay on the TLB and a short > delay on the CPU -- when this happens, the CPU board sends its "beep" > before the TLB has started running, so you only get one "beep" even > though nothing is wrong. > > > working fine, but now the keyboard no longer works (except for the > > 'shift-reset' combo), all other keys don't even keyclick (they had > > initially). > > The keyboard encoder chip is an old PMOS part, and pretty sensitive to > static damage. Touching the bare keyboard connector pins or traces to > the keyboard can kill it. If the problem isn't something simple like the > ribbon cable to the keyboard being unplugged, you may have a bad > keyboard encoder IC. > > > Between the time it was working and now, during a few power-ups the > > screen the screen went a little crazy, for example, the "H:" was > > shaking and showing up in two places, another time various characters > > showed up on the screen. I'm wondering if a CAP or other component > > failed. > > These symptoms both point to problems on the TLB. I'd check the supply > voltages. The TLB needs +8v, +16v, and -16v to work. It has onboard > regulators to convert these to +5v, -5v, +12v, and -12v. > > > BTW: The memory is installed strangely in the system. The top row of > > memory ICs have a second memory chip soldiered on top of each one, > > along with a wire that connects them all to one of the lines on the > > slot that you would normally install the extra memory card to bump it > > up to 64k. This must have been a cheaper way to get to 64k than adding > > the board. > > Right. This is a 'quick and dirty' way to upgrade to 64k of RAM without > any extra PC boards. > -- > Ring the bells that you can ring > Forget the perfect offering > There is a crack in everything > That's how the light gets in > -- Leonard Cohen > -- > Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 > leeahart_ at _earthlink.net > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From gfroberts at adelphia.net Fri Jul 7 20:14:54 2006 From: gfroberts at adelphia.net (Glenn Roberts) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 21:14:54 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] virtual H8 Message-ID: <00a301c6a22b$eb78be10$6501a8c0@shuttle> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 2743 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Watzman at neo.rr.com Fri Jul 7 20:27:15 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 21:27:15 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. In-Reply-To: <704e82240607071457h6265a80eva34811e08edff3f8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000f01c6a22d$a5976bb0$6501a8c0@barry> My recollection is that the keytops just lift off. Best way is to thread some loops of nylon fishing line under the keytops from both sides, and then pull up on the loops, which lifts the keytops straight up from below on both sides (or top and bottom). It's easier once you get started because one side is exposed by the missing adjacent keytop. The keys on the H89 are simple electrical contact switches and they can be cleaned. The best products are made by CAIG Laboratories, DeOxIt and DeOxIt Gold (which may be for gold contacts, which I don't think that these are). The best way may be to remove the keyboard and the keycaps and use the spray, or you can apply the spray to cloth or a Q-Tip or even a piece of paperboard cardboard (which may work well, being slightly abrasive and saturated with DeOxIt or another similar cleaner). Barry Watzman Watzman at neo.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Mark Garlanger Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 5:57 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. Hi Guys, Thanks for all the suggestions. When I last turned off that H89 (about 3-4 days ago), it was still having the problem. Today, the keyboard is working (although not as good as on my other H89). Several of the keys seem to have problems with repeated characters (as if the debouncing circuitry is not working well). Several of the keys will intermittently generate 2 (or more) characters when I press it (more likely if I press it slowly). Also, the '4' key will intermittently not register on the key press, but will on the key release ( and sometimes on both). It doesn't seem like all the keys have the problem (not even all the keys in a given row). On my other H89, I am unable to get any of the keys to act this way. Is there any trick to popping off the keys? Maybe they need cleaning underneath. BTW: It still usually only beeps once even though the computer part is working. It could be the timings that Lee mentioned below, since once (out of about 10), it did beep twice. Thanks, Mark On 7/5/06, Lee Hart wrote: > Mark Garlanger wrote: > > Does anyone know what the power up beeps mean? > > The TLB and CPU boards each independently generate a "beep" when they > are powered up. The speaker plugs into the TLB, so you get one "beep" > for an H19 trminal, or for an H89 with the OFF-LINE key depressed. > > This first "beep" tells you that the TLB has power, and that its Z80 is > running and executing software (even if incorrectly). It will "beep" > again each time the TLB is reset. > > The CPU board in an H88/89/90 generates a separate "beep" when it is > powered up or reset. To hear this as a second "beep", the TLB needs to > be working, and on-line (i.e. the OFF-LINE key is up). This "beep" is > sent to the TLB serially as a software command at the same time as the > "H:" prompt. It indicates that the CPU board's Z80 is running the > monitor program. > > Note that the timing of these "beeps" is set independently by the R-C > networks on each board that control the power-on Reset. Old TLB and CPU > boards tended to have long delays; later ones had shorter delays. It's > possible to swap boards so you have a long delay on the TLB and a short > delay on the CPU -- when this happens, the CPU board sends its "beep" > before the TLB has started running, so you only get one "beep" even > though nothing is wrong. > > > working fine, but now the keyboard no longer works (except for the > > 'shift-reset' combo), all other keys don't even keyclick (they had > > initially). > > The keyboard encoder chip is an old PMOS part, and pretty sensitive to > static damage. Touching the bare keyboard connector pins or traces to > the keyboard can kill it. If the problem isn't something simple like the > ribbon cable to the keyboard being unplugged, you may have a bad > keyboard encoder IC. > > > Between the time it was working and now, during a few power-ups the > > screen the screen went a little crazy, for example, the "H:" was > > shaking and showing up in two places, another time various characters > > showed up on the screen. I'm wondering if a CAP or other component > > failed. > > These symptoms both point to problems on the TLB. I'd check the supply > voltages. The TLB needs +8v, +16v, and -16v to work. It has onboard > regulators to convert these to +5v, -5v, +12v, and -12v. > > > BTW: The memory is installed strangely in the system. The top row of > > memory ICs have a second memory chip soldiered on top of each one, > > along with a wire that connects them all to one of the lines on the > > slot that you would normally install the extra memory card to bump it > > up to 64k. This must have been a cheaper way to get to 64k than adding > > the board. > > Right. This is a 'quick and dirty' way to upgrade to 64k of RAM without > any extra PC boards. > -- > Ring the bells that you can ring > Forget the perfect offering > There is a crack in everything > That's how the light gets in > -- Leonard Cohen > -- > Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 > leeahart_ at _earthlink.net > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Fri Jul 7 20:30:13 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 21:30:13 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] virtual H8 In-Reply-To: <00a301c6a22b$eb78be10$6501a8c0@shuttle> Message-ID: <001601c6a22e$0fa8e4c0$6501a8c0@barry> Where was the virtual H-8? _____ From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Glenn Roberts Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 9:15 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: [sebhc] virtual H8 I'm trying to get Dave Wallace's virtual H8 to work on my Windows (Media Center) computer. I'm using version 1.4. I've downloaded it to C:\H8 and have the necessary files and directories in place as described in the readme. i've replaced the dummy .ROM files with the ones off the sebhc web site. the emulator runs but it comes up showing "CPU Suspended", which I presume means it hit a HLT instruction (??). the buttons seem to react to key clicks so the GUI is working, but nothing is displayed on the LED's or the H19 screen. RESET doesn't solve the problem. anyone have any "lessons learned" in bringing this up? Are the .ROM files on the SEBHC web site known to work with it? If not my next step will be to build my own ROM files by digging out the H8 - Glenn Roberts -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gfroberts at adelphia.net Fri Jul 7 20:57:41 2006 From: gfroberts at adelphia.net (Glenn Roberts) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 21:57:41 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] virtual H8 References: <001601c6a22e$0fa8e4c0$6501a8c0@barry> Message-ID: <00c601c6a231$e5692bd0$6501a8c0@shuttle> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 8641 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sp11 at hotmail.com Fri Jul 7 21:45:23 2006 From: sp11 at hotmail.com (Steven Parker) Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 02:45:23 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] virtual H8 ROM files In-Reply-To: <00a301c6a22b$eb78be10$6501a8c0@shuttle> Message-ID: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 02:45:23 GMT Glenn asked: >Are the .ROM files on the SEBHC web site known to work with it? Yes, I made that package myself after using the files to run Dave's program. -- Steven (the author of one of those ROM's.) ;-) -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Fri Jul 7 21:55:10 2006 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 21:55:10 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. References: <704e82240607030026l2232b16bue366819e85373bb7@mail.gmail.com> <44AC6874.56FA7E42@earthlink.net> <704e82240607071457h6265a80eva34811e08edff3f8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44AF1E8E.536FD01D@earthlink.net> Mark Garlanger wrote: > Today, the keyboard is working (although not as good as on my other > H89). Several of the keys seem to have problems with repeated > characters (as if the debouncing circuitry is not working well). > Several of the keys will intermittently generate 2 (or more) > characters when I press it (more likely if I press it slowly). > Also, the '4' key will intermittently not register on the key > press, but will on the key release ( and sometimes on both). > It doesn't seem like all the keys have the problem (not even all > the keys in a given row). These are the symptoms of a static-damaged keyboard encoder chip. There might be other causes (bad voltage regulator that powers the keyboard encoder, or loose or intermittent wiring somewhere), but my money is on the keyboard encoder IC. > Is there any trick to popping off the keys? Maybe they need cleaning > underneath. No, they just pull straight up to come off. There are multiple redundant gold plated contacts per key, so it is pretty unlikely they are the problem unless the keyboard has suffered some grevious abuse (submersion, etc.) -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dkelvey at hotmail.com Sat Jul 8 12:45:17 2006 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 10:45:17 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. In-Reply-To: <704e82240607071457h6265a80eva34811e08edff3f8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 17:45:17 GMT Hi I recommend that once you expose the contact put a film of silicon grease, such as DowCorning #4, on the contacts. This will improve the contact and stop the multiple keys. Dwight >From: "Mark Garlanger" >Reply-To: sebhc at sebhc.org >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: Re: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. >Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 16:57:10 -0500 > >Hi Guys, > > Thanks for all the suggestions. When I last turned off that H89 >(about 3-4 days ago), it was still having the problem. Today, the >keyboard is working (although not as good as on my other H89). >Several of the keys seem to have problems with repeated characters (as >if the debouncing circuitry is not working well). Several of the keys >will intermittently generate 2 (or more) characters when I press it >(more likely if I press it slowly). Also, the '4' key will >intermittently not register on the key press, but will on the key >release ( and sometimes on both). It doesn't seem like all the keys >have the problem (not even all the keys in a given row). On my other >H89, I am unable to get any of the keys to act this way. > >Is there any trick to popping off the keys? Maybe they need cleaning >underneath. > >BTW: It still usually only beeps once even though the computer part is >working. It could be the timings that Lee mentioned below, since once >(out of about 10), it did beep twice. > >Thanks, > Mark > >On 7/5/06, Lee Hart wrote: >>Mark Garlanger wrote: >> > Does anyone know what the power up beeps mean? >> >>The TLB and CPU boards each independently generate a "beep" when they >>are powered up. The speaker plugs into the TLB, so you get one "beep" >>for an H19 trminal, or for an H89 with the OFF-LINE key depressed. >> >>This first "beep" tells you that the TLB has power, and that its Z80 is >>running and executing software (even if incorrectly). It will "beep" >>again each time the TLB is reset. >> >>The CPU board in an H88/89/90 generates a separate "beep" when it is >>powered up or reset. To hear this as a second "beep", the TLB needs to >>be working, and on-line (i.e. the OFF-LINE key is up). This "beep" is >>sent to the TLB serially as a software command at the same time as the >>"H:" prompt. It indicates that the CPU board's Z80 is running the >>monitor program. >> >>Note that the timing of these "beeps" is set independently by the R-C >>networks on each board that control the power-on Reset. Old TLB and CPU >>boards tended to have long delays; later ones had shorter delays. It's >>possible to swap boards so you have a long delay on the TLB and a short >>delay on the CPU -- when this happens, the CPU board sends its "beep" >>before the TLB has started running, so you only get one "beep" even >>though nothing is wrong. >> >> > working fine, but now the keyboard no longer works (except for the >> > 'shift-reset' combo), all other keys don't even keyclick (they had >> > initially). >> >>The keyboard encoder chip is an old PMOS part, and pretty sensitive to >>static damage. Touching the bare keyboard connector pins or traces to >>the keyboard can kill it. If the problem isn't something simple like the >>ribbon cable to the keyboard being unplugged, you may have a bad >>keyboard encoder IC. >> >> > Between the time it was working and now, during a few power-ups the >> > screen the screen went a little crazy, for example, the "H:" was >> > shaking and showing up in two places, another time various characters >> > showed up on the screen. I'm wondering if a CAP or other component >> > failed. >> >>These symptoms both point to problems on the TLB. I'd check the supply >>voltages. The TLB needs +8v, +16v, and -16v to work. It has onboard >>regulators to convert these to +5v, -5v, +12v, and -12v. >> >> > BTW: The memory is installed strangely in the system. The top row of >> > memory ICs have a second memory chip soldiered on top of each one, >> > along with a wire that connects them all to one of the lines on the >> > slot that you would normally install the extra memory card to bump it >> > up to 64k. This must have been a cheaper way to get to 64k than adding >> > the board. >> >>Right. This is a 'quick and dirty' way to upgrade to 64k of RAM without >>any extra PC boards. >>-- >>Ring the bells that you can ring >>Forget the perfect offering >>There is a crack in everything >>That's how the light gets in >> -- Leonard Cohen >>-- >>Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 >>leeahart_ at _earthlink.net >>-- >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Sat Jul 8 14:42:37 2006 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 14:42:37 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. References: Message-ID: <44B00AAD.B319D8CC@earthlink.net> dwight elvey wrote: > I recommend that once you expose the contact > put a film of silicon grease, such as DowCorning #4, > on the contacts. This will improve the contact and > stop the multiple keys. I don't think you want to have *anything* on the gold-plated contact surfaces. The contact pressure is very low, and the keyboard encoder chip already does ample debouncing. But, it is helpful to have lubrication on the plastic slides that the move up/down as you press the keys. There was lubrication from the factory (maybe just the plasticizer that comes in any recently molded plastic), but it dries up over time and the keys can bind if you push them off-center. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlangr at verizon.net Sat Jul 8 15:11:24 2006 From: garlangr at verizon.net (Mark Garlanger) Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 15:11:24 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. In-Reply-To: <44AF1E8E.536FD01D@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <006501c6a2ca$b039a860$6601010a@GR390> It appears that the problem is the keyboard encoder chip. After a couple of key presses today the screen went crazy... multiple 'H:'s on the screen, then garbage, shift-reset not working then shift-reset working... Nothing consistent. Any idea of a work-around since I'm guessing that the encoder chip is no-longer available? Or should this just be my spare parts machine? I did acquire a loose terminal board, but looking at the condition of it (not sure of it's history), there is no chance that the chip is still functional. Mark -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 9:55 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. Mark Garlanger wrote: > Today, the keyboard is working (although not as good as on my other > H89). Several of the keys seem to have problems with repeated > characters (as if the debouncing circuitry is not working well). > Several of the keys will intermittently generate 2 (or more) > characters when I press it (more likely if I press it slowly). > Also, the '4' key will intermittently not register on the key > press, but will on the key release ( and sometimes on both). > It doesn't seem like all the keys have the problem (not even all > the keys in a given row). These are the symptoms of a static-damaged keyboard encoder chip. There might be other causes (bad voltage regulator that powers the keyboard encoder, or loose or intermittent wiring somewhere), but my money is on the keyboard encoder IC. > Is there any trick to popping off the keys? Maybe they need cleaning > underneath. No, they just pull straight up to come off. There are multiple redundant gold plated contacts per key, so it is pretty unlikely they are the problem unless the keyboard has suffered some grevious abuse (submersion, etc.) -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sat Jul 8 16:06:57 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 17:06:57 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. In-Reply-To: <006501c6a2ca$b039a860$6601010a@GR390> Message-ID: <005c01c6a2d2$73231a30$6501a8c0@barry> Before you give up on the encoder, try Heath. About a year before the Z-100 came out, we (Heathkit - I was the product line director) made an emergency last-time buy of those keyboard encoders, because they were being discontinued forever. Because of the number of 19's and 89's in existence, a desire to cover requirements for at least 7 years, plus unknown yet-to-occur production, the buy was extremely large (tens of thousands of parts). It's possible that Heath Company in Benton Harbor still has some. Also, try the surplus dealers in Benton Harbor. There is no easy work-around. Barry Watzman Watzman at neo.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Mark Garlanger Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 4:11 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: RE: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. It appears that the problem is the keyboard encoder chip. After a couple of key presses today the screen went crazy... multiple 'H:'s on the screen, then garbage, shift-reset not working then shift-reset working... Nothing consistent. Any idea of a work-around since I'm guessing that the encoder chip is no-longer available? Or should this just be my spare parts machine? I did acquire a loose terminal board, but looking at the condition of it (not sure of it's history), there is no chance that the chip is still functional. Mark -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 9:55 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. Mark Garlanger wrote: > Today, the keyboard is working (although not as good as on my other > H89). Several of the keys seem to have problems with repeated > characters (as if the debouncing circuitry is not working well). > Several of the keys will intermittently generate 2 (or more) > characters when I press it (more likely if I press it slowly). > Also, the '4' key will intermittently not register on the key > press, but will on the key release ( and sometimes on both). > It doesn't seem like all the keys have the problem (not even all > the keys in a given row). These are the symptoms of a static-damaged keyboard encoder chip. There might be other causes (bad voltage regulator that powers the keyboard encoder, or loose or intermittent wiring somewhere), but my money is on the keyboard encoder IC. > Is there any trick to popping off the keys? Maybe they need cleaning > underneath. No, they just pull straight up to come off. There are multiple redundant gold plated contacts per key, so it is pretty unlikely they are the problem unless the keyboard has suffered some grevious abuse (submersion, etc.) -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From frustum at pacbell.net Sat Jul 8 17:27:33 2006 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 17:27:33 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. In-Reply-To: <005c01c6a2d2$73231a30$6501a8c0@barry> References: <005c01c6a2d2$73231a30$6501a8c0@barry> Message-ID: <44B03155.5010706@pacbell.net> > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of > Mark Garlanger > Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 4:11 PM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: RE: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. > > It appears that the problem is the keyboard encoder chip. After a couple of > key presses today the screen went crazy... multiple 'H:'s on the screen, > then garbage, shift-reset not working then shift-reset working... Nothing > consistent. > Any idea of a work-around since I'm guessing that the encoder chip is > no-longer available? Or should this just be my spare parts machine? I did > acquire a loose terminal board, but looking at the condition of it (not sure > of it's history), there is no chance that the chip is still functional. > > Mark I have a dead h89 carcass -- if you want me to pull the chip and mail it to you, let me know. For that matter, if anybody needs a CRT and wants to attempt a transplant, let me know. Or miscellaneous parts, like keytops. It doesn't have any floppies and the logic boards appear dead, although I haven't attempted to figure out if they are all dead, or there is a single point of failure, or something between. I have a vague recollection that when I got it I was told that the machine smoked at one point. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dkelvey at hotmail.com Sat Jul 8 18:48:54 2006 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 16:48:54 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. In-Reply-To: <44B00AAD.B319D8CC@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 23:48:54 GMT >From: Lee Hart > >dwight elvey wrote: > > I recommend that once you expose the contact > > put a film of silicon grease, such as DowCorning #4, > > on the contacts. This will improve the contact and > > stop the multiple keys. > >I don't think you want to have *anything* on the gold-plated contact >surfaces. The contact pressure is very low, and the keyboard encoder >chip already does ample debouncing. > >But, it is helpful to have lubrication on the plastic slides that the >move up/down as you press the keys. There was lubrication from the >factory (maybe just the plasticizer that comes in any recently molded >plastic), but it dries up over time and the keys can bind if you push >them off-center. >-- Hi I applied some of this particular grease to the contacts of my H89 about 12 to 15 years ago, when some of the keys were flakey. The last time I use it, about 2 years ago when I was playing with the disk transfers, it was working flawlessly. It seems that every time I recommend this magic stuff, someone will state a hypothetical reason for not using it. None of these reasons has ever proved to be true over time. The only time I've had any problems with it was when I put it on the ceramic switch of an electrometer. It has slight conduction, on the order of several hundred megohms. An open to most application but enough to be seen on an electrometer. Cleaning it from the problem areas solved this over use and the remaining film fixed the bad contact of the switch. I've used it on edge connectors, lamp sockets, keyboard/pads, switch contacts, cable connections, and IC pins. Many of these applications have been in use, off and on, for over 20 years. It is especially good for power connectors that otherwise tend to overheat. Dwight -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Sat Jul 8 18:58:36 2006 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 18:58:36 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. References: <006501c6a2ca$b039a860$6601010a@GR390> Message-ID: <44B046AC.74BCFEB8@earthlink.net> Mark Garlanger wrote: > It appears that the problem is the keyboard encoder chip. After a > couple of key presses today the screen went crazy... multiple 'H:'s > on the screen, then garbage, shift-reset not working then shift-reset > working... Nothing consistent. Hold on a sec: Shift-Reset does not go thru the keyboard encoder chip. If it doesn't work, there is some *other* problem. Multiple H: prompts say that either the CPU board is getting multiple RESET commands from the TLB, or that the CPU board itself has some problem that is causing it to randomly reset itself without any command from the TLB. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Sat Jul 8 20:56:04 2006 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 20:56:04 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. In-Reply-To: <44B046AC.74BCFEB8@earthlink.net> References: <006501c6a2ca$b039a860$6601010a@GR390> <44B046AC.74BCFEB8@earthlink.net> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <704e82240607081856k153566b1i90de75f5c40e4e5f@mail.gmail.com> Now thinking about it, I'm not sure if the reset wasn't working or it just kept reseting to a messed up state. After about 10 resets it did come back to normal behavior. I've tried for a while and can't reproduce it to double check. As for the multiple H: prompts, when it happens, it is ghost images(shaky screen, misplaced and lighter than normal). One H: prompt that the video somehow decides to show in 3 locations at once. I'm almost positive it's not multiple prompts from the CPU board. Also of note, when it does work, and I turn it on in the 'off-line' mode, NO beeps are heard, thus the TLB isn't generating the beep it is supposed to. This was an image I captured with my phone while I held the 'ctrl-reset' down during one of the messed up times(imaged stayed until I released the keys). Sorry for the bad quality, it basically had something like 'C', some graphic charaters, and a 'eM' repeated several times sloping down across the screen http://heath.garlanger.com/h89.jpg While it was on the screen I check the graphic mapping to see if it made any valid words, it didn't. On 7/8/06, Lee Hart wrote: > Mark Garlanger wrote: > > It appears that the problem is the keyboard encoder chip. After a > > couple of key presses today the screen went crazy... multiple 'H:'s > > on the screen, then garbage, shift-reset not working then shift-reset > > working... Nothing consistent. > > Hold on a sec: Shift-Reset does not go thru the keyboard encoder chip. > If it doesn't work, there is some *other* problem. > > Multiple H: prompts say that either the CPU board is getting multiple > RESET commands from the TLB, or that the CPU board itself has some > problem that is causing it to randomly reset itself without any command > from the TLB. > -- > Ring the bells that still can ring > Forget the perfect offering > There is a crack in everything > That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen > -- > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Sat Jul 8 21:22:44 2006 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 21:22:44 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. In-Reply-To: <44B03155.5010706@pacbell.net> References: <005c01c6a2d2$73231a30$6501a8c0@barry> <44B03155.5010706@pacbell.net> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <704e82240607081922m358744f5hc637f9367f3ee159@mail.gmail.com> Hi Jim, Thanks for the offer. I'd like to try that if Lee still thinks that it could be the issue. Although, if the third H89 I'm hoping to get, comes soon, I'll probably see if someone with more time and the right tools wants this one [likely minus the drive] to work on. Thanks, Mark On 7/8/06, Jim Battle wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of > > Mark Garlanger > > Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 4:11 PM > > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > > Subject: RE: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. > > > > It appears that the problem is the keyboard encoder chip. After a couple of > > key presses today the screen went crazy... multiple 'H:'s on the screen, > > then garbage, shift-reset not working then shift-reset working... Nothing > > consistent. > > Any idea of a work-around since I'm guessing that the encoder chip is > > no-longer available? Or should this just be my spare parts machine? I did > > acquire a loose terminal board, but looking at the condition of it (not sure > > of it's history), there is no chance that the chip is still functional. > > > > Mark > > I have a dead h89 carcass -- if you want me to pull the chip and mail it > to you, let me know. For that matter, if anybody needs a CRT and wants > to attempt a transplant, let me know. Or miscellaneous parts, like > keytops. It doesn't have any floppies and the logic boards appear dead, > although I haven't attempted to figure out if they are all dead, or > there is a single point of failure, or something between. I have a > vague recollection that when I got it I was told that the machine smoked > at one point. > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From rogbirk at gra.midco.net Sat Jul 8 22:45:15 2006 From: rogbirk at gra.midco.net (Roger Birkholz) Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 22:45:15 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. References: <704e82240607030026l2232b16bue366819e85373bb7@mail.gmail.com> <44AC6874.56FA7E42@earthlink.net> <704e82240607071457h6265a80eva34811e08edff3f8@mail.gmail.com> <44AF1E8E.536FD01D@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <005401c6a30a$17353040$3d53dc18@midco.net> Try scoping the power supply. I had a 5 volt regulator (not Heath) with a open electrolytic. It measured 5 volts with a VOM but the scope showed about a 10 volt square wave. Just a thought. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Hart" To: Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 9:55 PM Subject: Re: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. > Mark Garlanger wrote: > > Today, the keyboard is working (although not as good as on my other > > H89). Several of the keys seem to have problems with repeated > > characters (as if the debouncing circuitry is not working well). > > Several of the keys will intermittently generate 2 (or more) > > characters when I press it (more likely if I press it slowly). > > Also, the '4' key will intermittently not register on the key > > press, but will on the key release ( and sometimes on both). > > It doesn't seem like all the keys have the problem (not even all > > the keys in a given row). > > These are the symptoms of a static-damaged keyboard encoder chip. There > might be other causes (bad voltage regulator that powers the keyboard > encoder, or loose or intermittent wiring somewhere), but my money is on > the keyboard encoder IC. > > > Is there any trick to popping off the keys? Maybe they need cleaning > > underneath. > > No, they just pull straight up to come off. There are multiple redundant > gold plated contacts per key, so it is pretty unlikely they are the > problem unless the keyboard has suffered some grevious abuse > (submersion, etc.) > -- > Ring the bells that still can ring > Forget the perfect offering > There is a crack in everything > That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen > -- > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 - Release Date: 6/30/06 > > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Sun Jul 9 00:01:48 2006 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 00:01:48 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. References: <006501c6a2ca$b039a860$6601010a@GR390> <44B046AC.74BCFEB8@earthlink.net> <704e82240607081856k153566b1i90de75f5c40e4e5f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44B08DBC.AE46C3CE@earthlink.net> Mark Garlanger wrote: > As for the multiple H: prompts, when it happens, it is ghost images > (shaky screen, misplaced and lighter than normal). One H: prompt > that the video somehow decides to show in 3 locations at once. Ah, I see. The CPU board probably sent a single "H:", but the TLB is displaying it in several places. If the screen has a stable 80x25 character matrix and the H: appears in multiple places, it could be the video RAM malfunctioning. If the screen is rolling vertically or squirming diagonall or side to side, then the video board isn't syncing to the TLB (wrong or missing Hsync or Vsync). A bad keyboard encoder that is static damaged will send phantom keys (keys you didn't hit), or fail to send keys you do hit, or auto-repeat keys at random. For some reason, the keyboard encoder Heath used is unusually easy to damage from static. This chip can also malfunction if the 12v supply to the keyboard encoder is bad. > This was an image I captured with my phone while I held the > 'ctrl-reset' down during one of the messed up times(imaged stayed > until I released the keys). Sorry for the bad quality, it basically > had something like 'C', some graphic charaters, and a 'eM' repeated > several times sloping down across the screen > http://heath.garlanger.com/h89.jpg The steady screen display, but oddball scattering of characters makes me think the video RAM isn't working right (four 2114's). -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Sun Jul 9 01:14:17 2006 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 01:14:17 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. In-Reply-To: <44B08DBC.AE46C3CE@earthlink.net> References: <006501c6a2ca$b039a860$6601010a@GR390> <44B046AC.74BCFEB8@earthlink.net> <704e82240607081856k153566b1i90de75f5c40e4e5f@mail.gmail.com> <44B08DBC.AE46C3CE@earthlink.net> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <704e82240607082314h673e4608nad466b389d323d7e@mail.gmail.com> On 7/9/06, Lee Hart wrote: > Mark Garlanger wrote: > > As for the multiple H: prompts, when it happens, it is ghost images > > (shaky screen, misplaced and lighter than normal). One H: prompt > > that the video somehow decides to show in 3 locations at once. > > Ah, I see. The CPU board probably sent a single "H:", but the TLB is > displaying it in several places. > > If the screen has a stable 80x25 character matrix and the H: appears in > multiple places, it could be the video RAM malfunctioning. > > If the screen is rolling vertically or squirming diagonall or side to > side, then the video board isn't syncing to the TLB (wrong or missing > Hsync or Vsync). > Not really rolling, but definitely not in the correct 80x25 matrix, top one is nearly off the screen and to the left. > A bad keyboard encoder that is static damaged will send phantom keys > (keys you didn't hit), or fail to send keys you do hit, or auto-repeat > keys at random. For some reason, the keyboard encoder Heath used is > unusually easy to damage from static. > > This chip can also malfunction if the 12v supply to the keyboard encoder > is bad. > I was able to locate the right schematic and check the power going into the TLB board (strange that it comes from the CPU board and not the power supply). From your earlier posting: > These symptoms both point to problems on the TLB. I'd check the supply > voltages. The TLB needs +8v, +16v, and -16v to work. It has onboard > regulators to convert these to +5v, -5v, +12v, and -12v. The values on my DMM are +7.3V +17.6V and -18.1V... Most likely the +7.3V is the source of my problems. Based on the schematics, it appears that the keyboard encoder uses Vcc2 (one of the 5V supplies). I measured the one you sent me and see just over 9V on that same line. But then I checked the wall voltage: 117V!!! what it should be 120V? Well there is alot of computer equipment in this room... Tested my idea by I turning on the laser printer... down to 115V with dips down to 112V. Turned off all no essential lights/monitors/systems... and it's up to 118V. I guess this H89 is more sensitive to low voltage, but low voltage seems to be the problem. I'll need to either move some of this equipment out of this room or figure out a way to get a dedicated circuit or two directly from the service panel. With the laser printer on I was able to see problem with the terminal portion. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sun Jul 9 07:00:46 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 08:00:46 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. In-Reply-To: <704e82240607082314h673e4608nad466b389d323d7e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001f01c6a34f$505cf110$6501a8c0@barry> The problem is not the line voltage; 117 is a [VERY] nominal. The computer should work all the way from about 100 volts to about 130 volts, but all of your other voltages seem off by WAY too much. Definitely could be a power supply problem. Check everything, even the wiring of the transformer. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Mark Garlanger Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 2:14 AM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. On 7/9/06, Lee Hart wrote: > These symptoms both point to problems on the TLB. I'd check the supply > voltages. The TLB needs +8v, +16v, and -16v to work. It has onboard > regulators to convert these to +5v, -5v, +12v, and -12v. The values on my DMM are +7.3V +17.6V and -18.1V... Most likely the +7.3V is the source of my problems. Based on the schematics, it appears that the keyboard encoder uses Vcc2 (one of the 5V supplies). I measured the one you sent me and see just over 9V on that same line. But then I checked the wall voltage: 117V!!! what it should be 120V? Well there is alot of computer equipment in this room... Tested my idea by I turning on the laser printer... down to 115V with dips down to 112V. Turned off all no essential lights/monitors/systems... and it's up to 118V. I guess this H89 is more sensitive to low voltage, but low voltage seems to be the problem. I'll need to either move some of this equipment out of this room or figure out a way to get a dedicated circuit or two directly from the service panel. With the laser printer on I was able to see problem with the terminal portion. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From rogbirk at gra.midco.net Sun Jul 9 07:05:20 2006 From: rogbirk at gra.midco.net (Roger Birkholz) Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 07:05:20 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. References: <006501c6a2ca$b039a860$6601010a@GR390> <44B046AC.74BCFEB8@earthlink.net> <704e82240607081856k153566b1i90de75f5c40e4e5f@mail.gmail.com> <44B08DBC.AE46C3CE@earthlink.net> <704e82240607082314h673e4608nad466b389d323d7e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003101c6a34f$f3c29f80$3d53dc18@midco.net> Hi Mark, Isn't the H89 power supply dual voltage (120/240) ? Is it possable that one primary winding (they should be in parallel at 120 volts) has a bad connection and your only getting half power? Just another wacky thought. Try your DMM on AC volts and see if there is any ripple on the DC regulated supplies. Shouldn't be any. Roger B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Garlanger" To: Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 1:14 AM Subject: Re: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. > On 7/9/06, Lee Hart wrote: > > Mark Garlanger wrote: > > > As for the multiple H: prompts, when it happens, it is ghost images > > > (shaky screen, misplaced and lighter than normal). One H: prompt > > > that the video somehow decides to show in 3 locations at once. > > > > Ah, I see. The CPU board probably sent a single "H:", but the TLB is > > displaying it in several places. > > > > If the screen has a stable 80x25 character matrix and the H: appears in > > multiple places, it could be the video RAM malfunctioning. > > > > If the screen is rolling vertically or squirming diagonall or side to > > side, then the video board isn't syncing to the TLB (wrong or missing > > Hsync or Vsync). > > > > Not really rolling, but definitely not in the correct 80x25 matrix, > top one is nearly off the screen and to the left. > > > A bad keyboard encoder that is static damaged will send phantom keys > > (keys you didn't hit), or fail to send keys you do hit, or auto-repeat > > keys at random. For some reason, the keyboard encoder Heath used is > > unusually easy to damage from static. > > > > This chip can also malfunction if the 12v supply to the keyboard encoder > > is bad. > > > > I was able to locate the right schematic and check the power going > into the TLB board (strange that it comes from the CPU board and not > the power supply). From your earlier posting: > > > These symptoms both point to problems on the TLB. I'd check the supply > > voltages. The TLB needs +8v, +16v, and -16v to work. It has onboard > > regulators to convert these to +5v, -5v, +12v, and -12v. > > The values on my DMM are +7.3V +17.6V and -18.1V... > Most likely the +7.3V is the source of my problems. Based on the > schematics, it appears that the keyboard encoder uses Vcc2 (one of the > 5V supplies). > > I measured the one you sent me and see just over 9V on that same line. > > But then I checked the wall voltage: 117V!!! what it should be 120V? > Well there is alot of computer equipment in this room... Tested my idea by > I turning on the laser printer... down to 115V with dips down to 112V. > Turned off all no essential lights/monitors/systems... and it's up to 118V. > > I guess this H89 is more sensitive to low voltage, but low voltage seems to > be the problem. I'll need to either move some of this equipment out of > this room or figure out a way to get a dedicated circuit or two directly from > the service panel. > > With the laser printer on I was able to see problem with the terminal portion. > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 7/7/06 > > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Sun Jul 9 08:00:53 2006 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 08:00:53 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. In-Reply-To: <001f01c6a34f$505cf110$6501a8c0@barry> References: <704e82240607082314h673e4608nad466b389d323d7e@mail.gmail.com> <001f01c6a34f$505cf110$6501a8c0@barry> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <704e82240607090600x467f19b6sae9e8ea9c7ff6f7b@mail.gmail.com> On 7/9/06, Barry Watzman wrote: > The problem is not the line voltage; 117 is a [VERY] nominal. The computer > should work all the way from about 100 volts to about 130 volts, but all of > your other voltages seem off by WAY too much. Definitely could be a power > supply problem. Check everything, even the wiring of the transformer. > > That's good to hear... I was worrying that I would have to hire an electrician to check/fix the wiring in the house. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From paulpenn at knology.net Sun Jul 9 09:28:32 2006 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul A. Pennington) Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 10:28:32 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. References: <006501c6a2ca$b039a860$6601010a@GR390> <44B046AC.74BCFEB8@earthlink.net> <704e82240607081856k153566b1i90de75f5c40e4e5f@mail.gmail.com> <44B08DBC.AE46C3CE@earthlink.net> <704e82240607082314h673e4608nad466b389d323d7e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003901c6a363$f49e4260$6401a8c0@A31PAUL> Mark wrote: > Tested my idea by turning on the laser printer... > down to 115V with dips down to 112V. Barry is right: the computer should not even notice variations this small. That does seem like a rather large variation on your AC wiring. Usually, it's caused by lazy electricians during the construction of your house. They just stick the wires into the quick connectors in the back of the outlets. You can fix it by going around the room and moving the wires to the screw connections on the side of the outlets. Not a fun job, but it only has to be done once. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sun Jul 9 09:59:29 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 10:59:29 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. In-Reply-To: <003901c6a363$f49e4260$6401a8c0@A31PAUL> Message-ID: <000701c6a368$49236320$6501a8c0@barry> Laser printers can draw 900 watts, so I would not be surprised to see that kind of a dip. My UPS cuts in every time I turn on my laser printer. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Paul A. Pennington Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 10:29 AM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. Mark wrote: > Tested my idea by turning on the laser printer... > down to 115V with dips down to 112V. Barry is right: the computer should not even notice variations this small. That does seem like a rather large variation on your AC wiring. Usually, it's caused by lazy electricians during the construction of your house. They just stick the wires into the quick connectors in the back of the outlets. You can fix it by going around the room and moving the wires to the screw connections on the side of the outlets. Not a fun job, but it only has to be done once. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Sun Jul 9 10:52:44 2006 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 10:52:44 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. References: <006501c6a2ca$b039a860$6601010a@GR390> <44B046AC.74BCFEB8@earthlink.net> <704e82240607081856k153566b1i90de75f5c40e4e5f@mail.gmail.com> <44B08DBC.AE46C3CE@earthlink.net> <704e82240607082314h673e4608nad466b389d323d7e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44B1264C.4D947C2B@earthlink.net> Mark Garlanger wrote: > I was able to locate the right schematic and check the power going > into the TLB board (strange that it comes from the CPU board and not > the power supply). From your earlier posting: > >> These symptoms both point to problems on the TLB. I'd check the supply >> voltages. The TLB needs +8v, +16v, and -16v to work. It has onboard >> regulators to convert these to +5v, -5v, +12v, and -12v. > > The values on my DMM are +7.3V +17.6V and -18.1V... > Most likely the +7.3V is the source of my problems. Based on the > schematics, it appears that the keyboard encoder uses Vcc2 (one of the > 5V supplies). Something's wrong with the 8v supply; 7.3v is definitely too low. A common problem was for connector P101 at the extreme rear of the little power supply board under the fan to burn up the pins for the yellow wires. The standard fix, used by Heath themselves, is to cut the two yellow wires, and solder them directly to the AC pins of the bridge rectifier on the metal heatsink under the fan. Another possibility is that your bridge rectifier is bad, and that only 2 of the 4 diodes in it still work. This makes it a halfwave rectifier instead of fullwave, with a resulting drop in in voltage and current capabilities. > But then I checked the wall voltage: 117V!!! what it should be 120V? No, that's not the problem. The H89 will run just fine on even 100 vac. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Sun Jul 9 11:01:19 2006 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 11:01:19 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. In-Reply-To: <003901c6a363$f49e4260$6401a8c0@A31PAUL> References: <006501c6a2ca$b039a860$6601010a@GR390> <44B046AC.74BCFEB8@earthlink.net> <704e82240607081856k153566b1i90de75f5c40e4e5f@mail.gmail.com> <44B08DBC.AE46C3CE@earthlink.net> <704e82240607082314h673e4608nad466b389d323d7e@mail.gmail.com> <003901c6a363$f49e4260$6401a8c0@A31PAUL> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <704e82240607090901p4acfba86h1ab015806ba5a271@mail.gmail.com> On 7/9/06, Paul A. Pennington wrote: > Mark wrote: > > > Tested my idea by turning on the laser printer... > > down to 115V with dips down to 112V. > > Barry is right: the computer should not even notice variations this > small. That does seem like a rather large variation on your AC wiring. > Usually, it's caused by lazy electricians during the construction of your > house. They just stick the wires into the quick connectors in the back of > the outlets. You can fix it by going around the room and moving the wires > to the screw connections on the side of the outlets. Not a fun job, but it > only has to be done once. > ummm... oops.. I recently had to replace several of the outlets since they wouldn't hold a plug (many of the outlets were worn out when we moved in). When I installed them, I was thinking, wow these holes seem easier than the screws, what a nice alternative. I wasn't even thinking the two would have a difference. Nice that none of the instructions mention any of this. Thanks for this info. Mark -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dkelvey at hotmail.com Sun Jul 9 11:15:08 2006 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 09:15:08 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. In-Reply-To: <000701c6a368$49236320$6501a8c0@barry> Message-ID: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 16:15:08 GMT Hi Also, as was mentioned earlier, the filter capacitor may be dried up and not working we. You could also use the silicon grease on the connector to the rectifier as I mentione earlier or as Barry suggest, solder the wire directly to the rectifier. I suspect you'll find one of these three things to be a problem. Dwight >From: "Barry Watzman" >Reply-To: sebhc at sebhc.org >To: >Subject: RE: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. >Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 10:59:29 -0400 > >Laser printers can draw 900 watts, so I would not be surprised to see that >kind of a dip. My UPS cuts in every time I turn on my laser printer. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >Paul A. Pennington >Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 10:29 AM >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: Re: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. > > Mark wrote: > > > Tested my idea by turning on the laser printer... > > down to 115V with dips down to 112V. > > Barry is right: the computer should not even notice variations this >small. That does seem like a rather large variation on your AC wiring. >Usually, it's caused by lazy electricians during the construction of your >house. They just stick the wires into the quick connectors in the back of >the outlets. You can fix it by going around the room and moving the wires >to the screw connections on the side of the outlets. Not a fun job, but it >only has to be done once. > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sun Jul 9 11:20:30 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 12:20:30 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. In-Reply-To: <704e82240607090901p4acfba86h1ab015806ba5a271@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001401c6a373$98e8adb0$6501a8c0@barry> No, it's not caused by that. The holes are just fine and will do no better than the screws in terms of voltage. [If there is any difference at all, it would show up when you plugged in a high CURRENT load, such as a heater, but the holes are fully tested to support full load current (15 or 20 amps)]. Forget the AC power supply entirely, completely. It's not part of your problem. Not a big part, not a small part, not any part. And any time or money you spend (even moving wires on sockets from the holes to screws) would be completely and totally wasted). -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Mark Garlanger Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 12:01 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. On 7/9/06, Paul A. Pennington wrote: > Mark wrote: > > > Tested my idea by turning on the laser printer... > > down to 115V with dips down to 112V. > > Barry is right: the computer should not even notice variations this > small. That does seem like a rather large variation on your AC wiring. > Usually, it's caused by lazy electricians during the construction of your > house. They just stick the wires into the quick connectors in the back of > the outlets. You can fix it by going around the room and moving the wires > to the screw connections on the side of the outlets. Not a fun job, but it > only has to be done once. > ummm... oops.. I recently had to replace several of the outlets since they wouldn't hold a plug (many of the outlets were worn out when we moved in). When I installed them, I was thinking, wow these holes seem easier than the screws, what a nice alternative. I wasn't even thinking the two would have a difference. Nice that none of the instructions mention any of this. Thanks for this info. Mark -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sun Jul 9 11:24:27 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 12:24:27 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001501c6a374$268b6040$6501a8c0@barry> Like others, I'm strongly in the anti-grease camp. Here and on the keyboard both. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of dwight elvey Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 12:15 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: RE: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. Hi Also, as was mentioned earlier, the filter capacitor may be dried up and not working we. You could also use the silicon grease on the connector to the rectifier as I mentione earlier or as Barry suggest, solder the wire directly to the rectifier. I suspect you'll find one of these three things to be a problem. Dwight -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Sun Jul 9 12:07:33 2006 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 12:07:33 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. References: <001401c6a373$98e8adb0$6501a8c0@barry> Message-ID: <44B137D5.B60DEA76@earthlink.net> Barry Watzman wrote: > No, it's not caused by that. The holes are just fine and will do > no better than the screws in terms of voltage. I agree that AC is not your problem, but... Push-in wire clamps in $0.39 receptacles are junk. The screws really do provide a better connection, and better receptacles really do work better. You can measure the resistance and/or voltage drops to prove it for yourself if you like. I have a home built about 10 years ago, all built according to code with this junk. Each individual connection isn't all that bad. I measured a 0.1v drop at 10 amps, for example. But, there are two of these connections in series at each out (black and white wires). And, they tend to daisy-chain the AC from receptacle to receptacle. I had a nice 120vac at the circuit breaker panel, but 110vac in my office, with severe voltage sag and bounce as things turned on/off. It turned out there were dozens of these push-in connections in series by the time it got to my office! I took most of them apart and moved the wires from the push-ins to the screws. The problems went away. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Sun Jul 9 12:10:19 2006 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 12:10:19 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. In-Reply-To: <44B1264C.4D947C2B@earthlink.net> References: <006501c6a2ca$b039a860$6601010a@GR390> <44B046AC.74BCFEB8@earthlink.net> <704e82240607081856k153566b1i90de75f5c40e4e5f@mail.gmail.com> <44B08DBC.AE46C3CE@earthlink.net> <704e82240607082314h673e4608nad466b389d323d7e@mail.gmail.com> <44B1264C.4D947C2B@earthlink.net> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <704e82240607091010o5bfe9039l637abdfa53c6e4cb@mail.gmail.com> On 7/9/06, Lee Hart wrote: > Another possibility is that your bridge rectifier is bad, and that only > 2 of the 4 diodes in it still work. This makes it a halfwave rectifier > instead of fullwave, with a resulting drop in in voltage and current > capabilities. > This appears to be the issue. They were a little hard to get the probes to, but it appears that D103 and D104 are bad. My DMM has a 2K/(diode picture) in the resistance selection. At that setting, for those two diodes, the resistance would start in the hundreds, then slowly (~10 secs) work it's way up past 2K. The other diodes would almost always started greater than 2K, although D101 and D102 would sometimes show 1.8K but quickly show over 2K. I'll just replace all 4 of those diodes when I take it apart. Thanks for everyone's help. Mark -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sun Jul 9 12:41:09 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 13:41:09 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. In-Reply-To: <704e82240607091010o5bfe9039l637abdfa53c6e4cb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001501c6a37e$dd512fd0$6501a8c0@barry> Re: " My DMM has a 2K/(diode picture) in the resistance selection. At that setting, for those two diodes, the resistance would start in the hundreds, then slowly (~10 secs) work it's way up past 2K." Wrong diagnosis (maybe). When you see that (an initial low resistance that increases) you have a capacitor in the circuit that you are charging with the battery in the multimeter. As it charges the voltage rises. And the electrolytic capacitors are polarized, so they won't necessarily behave the same if you swap the leads. The point being, in order to test the diodes in the bridge rectifiers, you have to disconnect the leads going to the rectifier (all of the leads). Otherwise, you are not measuring the characteristics of the diodes, but rather of the transformer windings and filter capacitors to which the rectifier inputs and outputs are connected. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Mark Garlanger Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 1:10 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] H89 Power-up problems. On 7/9/06, Lee Hart wrote: > Another possibility is that your bridge rectifier is bad, and that only > 2 of the 4 diodes in it still work. This makes it a halfwave rectifier > instead of fullwave, with a resulting drop in in voltage and current > capabilities. > This appears to be the issue. They were a little hard to get the probes to, but it appears that D103 and D104 are bad. My DMM has a 2K/(diode picture) in the resistance selection. At that setting, for those two diodes, the resistance would start in the hundreds, then slowly (~10 secs) work it's way up past 2K. The other diodes would almost always started greater than 2K, although D101 and D102 would sometimes show 1.8K but quickly show over 2K. I'll just replace all 4 of those diodes when I take it apart. Thanks for everyone's help. Mark -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From davidwallace2000 at comcast.net Mon Jul 10 05:48:41 2006 From: davidwallace2000 at comcast.net (davidwallace2000 at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 10:48:41 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] virtual H8 Message-ID: <071020061048.24265.44B23089000379F400005EC92206424613CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 3463 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gfroberts at adelphia.net Mon Jul 10 16:12:40 2006 From: gfroberts at adelphia.net (Glenn Roberts) Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:12:40 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] virtual H8 References: <071020061048.24265.44B23089000379F400005EC92206424613CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> Message-ID: <002c01c6a465$93de2820$6501a8c0@shuttle> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 5585 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Watzman at neo.rr.com Mon Jul 10 18:44:11 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 19:44:11 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] virtual H8 In-Reply-To: <002c01c6a465$93de2820$6501a8c0@shuttle> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.28 MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR URI: Includes a link to a likely spammer email 1.17 HTML_ATTR_UNIQUE BODY: HTML appears to have random attributes in tags Message-ID: <007d01c6a47a$bedeb6b0$6501a8c0@barry> Just out of curiosity, what is Tau? And given that there is going to be an apparently dramatic speed increase of CPUs in July (when Intel releases "Conroe" on July 23rd), is there a more fundamental problem with the current design? _____ From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Glenn Roberts Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 5:13 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] virtual H8 bingo. that got it working on my old Pentium III (Tau of 4). I may have to rebuild the code with higher Tau to get it to work on my Pentium D (2.8 Ghz) system - even 5 doesn't work... ----- Original Message ----- From: davidwallace2000 at comcast.net To: sebhc at sebhc.org Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 6:48 AM Subject: Re: [sebhc] virtual H8 On the menu, select Configure>H8 Options. The dialog pop-up allows you to set "value of tau". Start with 5:1 and see if the PAM8 code behaves better. If it does, try lower ratios until it breaks again and then go up one step. (I'm currently using 3:1 on my XP Pro platform -- 2:1 worked fine on a slower CPU running NT, so Microsoft "improved" things.) -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Glenn Roberts" I'm trying to get Dave Wallace's virtual H8 to work on my Windows (Media Center) computer. I'm using version 1.4. I've downloaded it to C:\H8 and have the necessary files and directories in place as described in the readme. i've replaced the dummy .ROM files with the ones off the sebhc web site. the emulator runs but it comes up showing "CPU Suspended", which I presume means it hit a HLT instruction (??). the buttons seem to react to key clicks so the GUI is working, but nothing is displayed on the LED's or the H19 screen. RESET doesn't solve the problem. anyone have any "lessons learned" in bringing this up? Are the .ROM files on the SEBHC web site known to work with it? If not my next step will be to build my own ROM files by digging out the H8 - Glenn Roberts -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidwallace2000 at comcast.net Mon Jul 10 19:38:40 2006 From: davidwallace2000 at comcast.net (davidwallace2000 at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 00:38:40 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] virtual H8 Message-ID: <071120060038.23621.44B2F31000016E2000005C452213528573CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 12701 bytes Desc: not available URL: From davidwallace2000 at comcast.net Mon Jul 10 19:38:40 2006 From: davidwallace2000 at comcast.net (davidwallace2000 at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 00:38:40 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] virtual H8 Message-ID: <071120060038.23621.44B2F31000016E2000005C452213528573CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 12701 bytes Desc: not available URL: From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Tue Jul 11 08:02:51 2006 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 09:02:51 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] PIE Message-ID: <44B3A17B.2050608@sc.rr.com> I've read something about about a program called PIE. Does anyone know what that is? Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Tue Jul 11 08:34:21 2006 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 08:34:21 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] PIE In-Reply-To: <44B3A17B.2050608@sc.rr.com> References: <44B3A17B.2050608@sc.rr.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <704e82240607110634m4745db31n127dcae9fdf9bbe@mail.gmail.com> It's a text editor. Mark On 7/11/06, Carroll Waddell wrote: > I've read something about about a program called PIE. > Does anyone know what that is? > > Carroll > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Tue Jul 11 08:52:00 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 09:52:00 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] PIE In-Reply-To: <44B3A17B.2050608@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <002101c6a4f1$2eff8890$6501a8c0@barry> I believe that it stood for "Programmer's Intelligent Editor" -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Carroll Waddell Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 9:03 AM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: [sebhc] PIE I've read something about about a program called PIE. Does anyone know what that is? Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Tue Jul 11 10:50:28 2006 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:50:28 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] PIE References: <44B3A17B.2050608@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <44B3C8C4.DB6371A9@earthlink.net> Carroll Waddell wrote: > > I've read something about about a program called PIE. > Does anyone know what that is? Sure! It's a very common text editor on Heath systems. Very easy to use, and designed to make good use of the H19 and Z-100's keyboards and screen capabilities. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From davidwallace2000 at comcast.net Tue Jul 11 10:57:07 2006 From: davidwallace2000 at comcast.net (davidwallace2000 at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 15:57:07 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] PIE Message-ID: <071120061557.4219.44B3CA53000269CE0000107B2200760180CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 2782 bytes Desc: not available URL: From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Tue Jul 11 14:01:54 2006 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 15:01:54 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] PIE In-Reply-To: <44B3C8C4.DB6371A9@earthlink.net> References: <44B3A17B.2050608@sc.rr.com> <44B3C8C4.DB6371A9@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <44B3F5A2.2090901@sc.rr.com> Lee Hart wrote: >Carroll Waddell wrote: > > >>I've read something about about a program called PIE. >>Does anyone know what that is? >> >> > >Sure! It's a very common text editor on Heath systems. Very easy to use, >and designed to make good use of the H19 and Z-100's keyboards and >screen capabilities. > > I found a copy of PIE on some old diskettes I had. Is there any information about how to use it somewhere? CEW -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Tue Jul 11 20:08:07 2006 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 20:08:07 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] PIE References: <44B3A17B.2050608@sc.rr.com> <44B3C8C4.DB6371A9@earthlink.net> <44B3F5A2.2090901@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <44B44B77.39350B3@earthlink.net> Carroll Waddell wrote: > I found a copy of PIE on some old diskettes I had. Is there any > information about how to use it somewhere? Yes. I have the program itself (for both CP/M-80 and CP/M-86), and the manuals. Somewhere I have a "help" file for it on disk; I'll see if I can find it, and if so, post a copy here. Basically, you type "PIE filename.doc" to edit a text file. The keypad keys work as labelled (cursor up/down/left/right/home, insert/delete character, insert/delete line). Type control-E to "exit" and save the file. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Tue Jul 11 21:12:06 2006 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 22:12:06 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] PIE In-Reply-To: <44B44B77.39350B3@earthlink.net> References: <44B3A17B.2050608@sc.rr.com> <44B3C8C4.DB6371A9@earthlink.net> <44B3F5A2.2090901@sc.rr.com> <44B44B77.39350B3@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <44B45A76.6030907@sc.rr.com> Lee Hart wrote: >Carroll Waddell wrote: > > >>I found a copy of PIE on some old diskettes I had. Is there any >>information about how to use it somewhere? >> >> > >Yes. I have the program itself (for both CP/M-80 and CP/M-86), and the >manuals. Somewhere I have a "help" file for it on disk; I'll see if I >can find it, and if so, post a copy here. > >Basically, you type "PIE filename.doc" to edit a text file. The keypad >keys work as labelled (cursor up/down/left/right/home, insert/delete >character, insert/delete line). Type control-E to "exit" and save the >file. > > Thanks Lee. CEW -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From WVerish at aol.com Thu Jul 13 15:12:21 2006 From: WVerish at aol.com (WVerish at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 16:12:21 EDT Subject: [sebhc] Re: H-8 users in OHIO Message-ID: <360.7f4bcdc.31e80325@aol.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 1643 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Watzman at neo.rr.com Thu Jul 13 15:41:19 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 16:41:19 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Re: H-8 users in OHIO In-Reply-To: <360.7f4bcdc.31e80325@aol.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.61 DEAR_SOMETHING BODY: Contains 'Dear (something)' 1.17 HTML_ATTR_UNIQUE BODY: HTML appears to have random attributes in tags Message-ID: <009401c6a6bc$b2616e70$6b01a8c0@barry> No, I don't know of any clubs or user's groups, etc. But I'm pretty familiar with the Heathkit computer products of that vintage (I was the Product Line Director for computers with Heathkit and Zenith Data Systems from 1978 to 1983, and the H-8 was one of my products). I'm in North Canton. Barry Watzman Watzman at neo.rr.com _____ From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of WVerish at aol.com Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 4:12 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: [sebhc] Re: H-8 users in OHIO Dear Sir: I live in Cleveland Ohio, and I was wondering if you know of any H-8 users, clubs etc in Ohio? I recently purchased an H-8 computer from Ebay and I have many questions. It would be great to talk with someone local. Thanks for your time, Wayne Verish -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jwt at OnJapan.net Sat Jul 15 19:15:08 2006 From: jwt at OnJapan.net (Jim Tittsler) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 09:15:08 +0900 Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Subject: [sebhc] Heathkit computers for sale in NYC Message-ID: From the Elecraft amateur radio mailing list: > H8 computers (two, one 8080 other Z80) > H9 terminal > H19 terminal > H89 computer > H17 dual drive > H17 triple drive > IBM Selectric Printer for H8 Parallel card > Hard sectored floppies with / without CP/M and HDOS software > HUG user group magazines > Software manuals, assembly manuals and Continuing Education course > for Basic. > > Please contact me off-list. I can deliver within a 100 mile > radius of NYC. > > Tom K2TA You can find his email address from http://www.qrz.com/callsign/k2ta if you are interested. Jim -- Jim Tittsler 7J1AJH/AI8A Tokyo GPG: 0x01159DB6 http://www.qsl.net/7j1ajh/ QRP/Satellites/APRS AMSAT/NZART -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Sun Jul 16 23:29:08 2006 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 23:29:08 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Evryware Games. Message-ID: <704e82240607162129g688d52c8l423cc44bffaf7dee@mail.gmail.com> Hi Guys, When looking for more information about Evryware games, I saw that the company was still around and making games: http://www.evryware.com/ Their "Complete" game list didn't include mention of CP/M games, but in the 'About Evryware' page, it mentioned starting with CP/M character graphics games. I contacted them and got the following response. They had more games than I remember. Space Odyssey and Y-Wing are the only ones I'm positive that I played. Unfortunately, it appears that they no longer have copies of the games either. If anyone have copies of any of these games, they would make a great addition to the sebhc library. Mark From: "Michael Murry" <***********@hotmail.com> To: "Mark Garlanger" <****@garlanger.com> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 11:45:43 -0700 Subject: RE: Old CP/M games from Evryware Hi Mark, Sorry for the long delay in responding. I read your email a long time ago, but forgot to respond. Sorry! Here is a list of the Heath/Zenith games: Space Odyssey Galactic Warrior Y-Wing Fighter Missile Control Invasion His Majesty's Ship Impetuous The Exterminator Battles: The Anthropods of Yargon Six Micro Stories Dragons of Hong Kong Zeedle/Deet Y-Wing 2 As for where you can find them... I have no idea. I wish you luck though and if you find them, please let me know! I would love to get a copy myself. Thanks! Mike Murry Evryware Inc. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Mon Jul 17 01:23:32 2006 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 02:23:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [sebhc] Evryware Games. Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.75 BSF_RULE_7580G BODY: Custom Rule 7580G 0.75 BSF_RULE_7580D BODY: Custom Rule 7580D 1.05 BSF_RULE_7582B BODY: Custom Rule 7582B 0.75 BSF_RULE_7580F BODY: Custom Rule 7580F Message-ID: <200607170623.CAA09837@ss10.danlan.com> | When looking for more information about Evryware games, I saw that |the company was still around and making games: |http://www.evryware.com/ |Their "Complete" game list didn't include mention of CP/M games, but |in the 'About Evryware' page, it mentioned starting with CP/M |character graphics games. I contacted them and got the following |response. They had more games than I remember. Space Odyssey and |Y-Wing are the only ones I'm positive that I played. Unfortunately, it |appears that they no longer have copies of the games either. If anyone |have copies of any of these games, they would make a great addition to |the sebhc library. I definitely have Space Odyssey, original disk and everything. I probably have Galatic Warrier and Y-Wing Fighter as well, though probably only in their HDOS forms. Not sure about the others. Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com |From: "Michael Murry" <***********@hotmail.com> |To: "Mark Garlanger" <****@garlanger.com> |Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 11:45:43 -0700 |Subject: RE: Old CP/M games from Evryware |Hi Mark, | |Sorry for the long delay in responding. I read your email a long time |ago, but forgot to respond. Sorry! | |Here is a list of the Heath/Zenith games: | |Space Odyssey |Galactic Warrior |Y-Wing Fighter |Missile Control |Invasion |His Majesty's Ship Impetuous |The Exterminator Battles: The Anthropods of Yargon |Six Micro Stories |Dragons of Hong Kong |Zeedle/Deet |Y-Wing 2 | |As for where you can find them... I have no idea. I wish you luck |though and if you find them, please let me know! I would love to get a |copy myself. Thanks! | |Mike Murry |Evryware Inc. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From gfroberts at adelphia.net Mon Jul 17 19:06:24 2006 From: gfroberts at adelphia.net (Glenn Roberts) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 20:06:24 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Evryware Games. References: <704e82240607162129g688d52c8l423cc44bffaf7dee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00be01c6a9fe$024f8130$6501a8c0@shuttle> sadly this is probably becoming the norm. Much of the legacy of the information era is truly in jeopardy of being lost. I wonder, does Microsoft still have the source code for Bill Gates' original version of BASIC somewhere? (I hope so). Thanks and congratulations to everyone on this list for helping to save an important slice of computing history! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Garlanger" To: "sebhc" Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 12:29 AM Subject: [sebhc] Evryware Games. > Hi Guys, > > When looking for more information about Evryware games, I saw that > the company was still around and making games: > http://www.evryware.com/ > Their "Complete" game list didn't include mention of CP/M games, but > in the 'About Evryware' page, it mentioned starting with CP/M > character graphics games. I contacted them and got the following > response. They had more games than I remember. Space Odyssey and > Y-Wing are the only ones I'm positive that I played. Unfortunately, it > appears that they no longer have copies of the games either. If anyone > have copies of any of these games, they would make a great addition to > the sebhc library. > > Mark > > > From: "Michael Murry" <***********@hotmail.com> > To: "Mark Garlanger" <****@garlanger.com> > Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 11:45:43 -0700 > Subject: RE: Old CP/M games from Evryware > Hi Mark, > > Sorry for the long delay in responding. I read your email a long time > ago, but forgot to respond. Sorry! > > Here is a list of the Heath/Zenith games: > > Space Odyssey > Galactic Warrior > Y-Wing Fighter > Missile Control > Invasion > His Majesty's Ship Impetuous > The Exterminator Battles: The Anthropods of Yargon > Six Micro Stories > Dragons of Hong Kong > Zeedle/Deet > Y-Wing 2 > > As for where you can find them... I have no idea. I wish you luck > though and if you find them, please let me know! I would love to get a > copy myself. Thanks! > > Mike Murry > Evryware Inc. > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Fri Jul 21 14:50:20 2006 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 15:50:20 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] DISKETTE IMAGES Message-ID: <44C12FFC.8090701@sc.rr.com> I recently purchased something on EBAY that I didn't know existed for the H8. It was Microsoft Basic-80 interpreter and compiler for HDOS. Also (unadvertised) was a Microsoft COBOL-80 for the H8. All were for the H17 - hard sectored. I tried the COBOL. It runs under CP/M. I don't know if it is legal for us to store them in the archive, but if it is, I'll make H8D images of the diskettes and upload them. I got all the original manuals for the Basic 80, but I have no documentation for the COBOL 80. Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From davidwallace2000 at comcast.net Fri Jul 21 15:23:39 2006 From: davidwallace2000 at comcast.net (davidwallace2000 at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 20:23:39 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] DISKETTE IMAGES Message-ID: <072120062023.8379.44C137CB00070E0E000020BB2200760180CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 2459 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Watzman at neo.rr.com Fri Jul 21 15:29:15 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 16:29:15 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] DISKETTE IMAGES In-Reply-To: <44C12FFC.8090701@sc.rr.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <006e01c6ad04$562f6960$6501a8c0@barry> My recollection is that all of the 4 basic Microsoft languages (Basic, Fortran, Cobol and the Basic Compiler) existed for both HDOS and CP/M and were all available on all 3 types of media (5" hard, 5" soft and 8") (and it should go without saying that the code is the same on all media types). The documentation for the HDOS versions is substantially identical to that for the CP/M versions, there was very little change in the user interface due to the change of OS. However, I'd be far more cautious about posting these than I would be with most other software from that era. It goes without saying that Microsoft still very much exists and might object to the software being posted. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Carroll Waddell Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 3:50 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: [sebhc] DISKETTE IMAGES I recently purchased something on EBAY that I didn't know existed for the H8. It was Microsoft Basic-80 interpreter and compiler for HDOS. Also (unadvertised) was a Microsoft COBOL-80 for the H8. All were for the H17 - hard sectored. I tried the COBOL. It runs under CP/M. I don't know if it is legal for us to store them in the archive, but if it is, I'll make H8D images of the diskettes and upload them. I got all the original manuals for the Basic 80, but I have no documentation for the COBOL 80. Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From bill at armchairarcade.com Fri Jul 21 15:43:31 2006 From: bill at armchairarcade.com (Bill Loguidice) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 16:43:31 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] DISKETTE IMAGES In-Reply-To: <006e01c6ad04$562f6960$6501a8c0@barry> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <000c01c6ad06$563dd660$55b4400a@EAST.VIS.COM> I'd have to disagree about being wary of posting the images, even though they're originally from Microsoft. While certainly it would be a sore point and a no-no if it were something even remotely modern, there is countless classic Microsoft software on the Web freely available for a variety of platforms. While that doesn't make it right, the point is is that I'm not aware of a single case where Microsoft has taken any action against these sites or individuals. If Microsoft and images for "mainstream" systems of the past from the likes of Commodore, TI and Atari didn't raise an eyebrow, why would something like that in HDOS format, since that's about as niche as one could get? Again, it doesn't make it right, but sometimes we have to make hard decisions when it comes to archiving truly "obsolete" software that will never have value again to the original copyright holder. ====================================== Bill Loguidice, Managing Director Armchair Arcade, Inc. (A PC Magazine Top 100 Website) ====================================== http://www.armchairarcade.com > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org > [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Barry Watzman > Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 4:29 PM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: RE: [sebhc] DISKETTE IMAGES > > > However, I'd be far more cautious about posting these than I > would be with > most other software from that era. It goes without saying > that Microsoft > still very much exists and might object to the software being posted. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Fri Jul 21 18:23:26 2006 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 19:23:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [sebhc] DISKETTE IMAGES Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <200607212323.TAA20172@ss10.danlan.com> |I recently purchased something on EBAY that I didn't know existed for |the H8. It was Microsoft Basic-80 interpreter and compiler for HDOS. |Also (unadvertised) was a Microsoft COBOL-80 for the H8. All were for |the H17 - hard sectored. I tried the COBOL. It runs under CP/M. |I don't know if it is legal for us to store them in the archive, but if |it is, I'll make H8D images of the diskettes and upload them. |I got all the original manuals for the Basic 80, but I have no |documentation for the COBOL 80. I have the Microsoft BASIC interpreter and compiler for both HDOS and CP/M along with Fortran for (I think only) HDOS. I should still have all the original manuals. Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From gfroberts at adelphia.net Fri Jul 21 18:31:35 2006 From: gfroberts at adelphia.net (Glenn Roberts) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 19:31:35 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] DISKETTE IMAGES References: <000c01c6ad06$563dd660$55b4400a@EAST.VIS.COM> Message-ID: <003d01c6ad1d$ced0e010$6501a8c0@shuttle> >From the earliest days copyright has been about protecting the ability of an author to financially gain from his/her work http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_copyright#Prehistory_of_copyright The days of Microsoft deriving any monetary income from CP/M Cobol are long gone. The real test would seem to be: are you denying them a sale? Since the product has been off the market for 25 years it seems unlikely! It's hard believe that Microsoft would care about such a posting, and at any rate the stated policy of the sebhc web site is to remove material if a legitimate copyright owner comes forward and requests such action. Ironically much of this "antique" software is in danger of being lost forever - it is largely through the efforts of groups like this one that it is being rescued from bit rot! The single biggest impediment to this preservation process is the unfounded fear of somehow violating the rights of vendors who have long ago stopped marketing these programs (and in most cases long ago gone out of business!) There are some enlightened souls out there who have tried to help. Dan Bricklin has made the original Visicalc available (http://danbricklin.com/visicalc.htm), Borland has posted its old Turbo C/Pascal products (http://bdn.borland.com/museum), and Cladera made the source code for CP/M available (http://www.retroarchive.org/cpm/archive/unofficial/source.html), among others. Anyone want to write to Microsoft and suggest they stand up a museum of antique software site on the microsoft.com home page? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Loguidice" To: Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 4:43 PM Subject: RE: [sebhc] DISKETTE IMAGES > I'd have to disagree about being wary of posting the images, even though > they're originally from Microsoft. While certainly it would be a sore > point > and a no-no if it were something even remotely modern, there is countless > classic Microsoft software on the Web freely available for a variety of > platforms. While that doesn't make it right, the point is is that I'm not > aware of a single case where Microsoft has taken any action against these > sites or individuals. If Microsoft and images for "mainstream" systems of > the past from the likes of Commodore, TI and Atari didn't raise an > eyebrow, > why would something like that in HDOS format, since that's about as niche > as > one could get? Again, it doesn't make it right, but sometimes we have to > make hard decisions when it comes to archiving truly "obsolete" software > that will never have value again to the original copyright holder. > > ====================================== > Bill Loguidice, Managing Director > Armchair Arcade, Inc. > (A PC Magazine Top 100 Website) > ====================================== > http://www.armchairarcade.com > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org >> [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Barry Watzman >> Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 4:29 PM >> To: sebhc at sebhc.org >> Subject: RE: [sebhc] DISKETTE IMAGES >> >> >> However, I'd be far more cautious about posting these than I >> would be with >> most other software from that era. It goes without saying >> that Microsoft >> still very much exists and might object to the software being posted. > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Sat Jul 22 11:26:24 2006 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:26:24 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] HDOS boot/space bar question. Message-ID: <704e82240607220926h32e6e436tcee512cfd386ee1b@mail.gmail.com> Does anyone know what makes HDOS decide if it needs the user to press space bars before booting? I heard that it was to detect the baud rate between the computer and terminal, but only some of my disks require that, even though they are all ver. 2.0. I was thinking that a bunch of my disk were bad since they weren't booting, until I remembered about the 'space bar' thing. Also, if I remember correctly, there is a way to make HDOS just boot, instead of presenting the question. How can you change it? My final question is about HDOS capitalizing everything. A few of my disks decide that everying must be capitalized, how do I change that? Thanks, Mark -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sat Jul 22 11:39:03 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 12:39:03 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] HDOS boot/space bar question. In-Reply-To: <704e82240607220926h32e6e436tcee512cfd386ee1b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <007b01c6adad$57e487a0$6501a8c0@barry> The space bar was to detect the baud rate. I think that there was as dip switch setting for autoboot on or off. The boot prompt was coming from the ROM, not from HDOS, and there are different ROMs. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Mark Garlanger Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 12:26 PM To: sebhc Subject: [sebhc] HDOS boot/space bar question. Does anyone know what makes HDOS decide if it needs the user to press space bars before booting? I heard that it was to detect the baud rate between the computer and terminal, but only some of my disks require that, even though they are all ver. 2.0. I was thinking that a bunch of my disk were bad since they weren't booting, until I remembered about the 'space bar' thing. Also, if I remember correctly, there is a way to make HDOS just boot, instead of presenting the question. How can you change it? My final question is about HDOS capitalizing everything. A few of my disks decide that everying must be capitalized, how do I change that? Thanks, Mark -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Sat Jul 22 12:07:05 2006 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 12:07:05 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] HDOS boot/space bar question. In-Reply-To: <007b01c6adad$57e487a0$6501a8c0@barry> References: <704e82240607220926h32e6e436tcee512cfd386ee1b@mail.gmail.com> <007b01c6adad$57e487a0$6501a8c0@barry> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <704e82240607221007v1c182dd6ob4b29f011ab3dbaf@mail.gmail.com> Hi Barry, I'm not talking about the "H: Boot", but after that step. With a CP/M disk, after "H: Boot", the H89 boots all the way to a command prompt. For HDOS, I just verified three different behavior with three different HDOS 2.0 disks (On the same H89 without changing any dipswitches). For the first one, the light comes on, then goes off. (I initially thought the disk was bad.) After a few space bar presses, the prompt: ACTION? comes up. Options are either BOOT, CHECK, or HELP. Pressing 'B' continues the boot until the date prompt. Enter the date, and the next prompt is the command prompt. The second disk does not require the spaces, but immediately gets to the "ACTION? " prompt. Then it continues as the first disk did. On my third disk, I do the "H: Boot", it SKIPS the "ACTION? " step and immediately displays the HDOS banner and the first prompt is the date, followed by the command prompt. Mark On 7/22/06, Barry Watzman wrote: > The space bar was to detect the baud rate. > > I think that there was as dip switch setting for autoboot on or off. The > boot prompt was coming from the ROM, not from HDOS, and there are different > ROMs. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of > Mark Garlanger > Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 12:26 PM > To: sebhc > Subject: [sebhc] HDOS boot/space bar question. > > Does anyone know what makes HDOS decide if it needs the user to press > space bars before booting? I heard that it was to detect the baud rate > between the computer and terminal, but only some of my disks require > that, even though they are all ver. 2.0. I was thinking that a bunch > of my disk were bad since they weren't booting, until I remembered > about the 'space bar' thing. Also, if I remember correctly, there is > a way to make HDOS just boot, instead of presenting the > question. How can you change it? My final question is about HDOS > capitalizing everything. A few of my disks decide that everying must > be capitalized, how do I change that? > > Thanks, > Mark > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Sat Jul 22 12:11:51 2006 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 13:11:51 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Dwights BIN Loader Message-ID: <44C25C57.9040909@sc.rr.com> Is there a later version than 9 of Dwight Elveys image transfer program. I can READ a diskette image with version 8, but not with version 9. Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sat Jul 22 12:56:00 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 13:56:00 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] HDOS boot/space bar question. In-Reply-To: <704e82240607221007v1c182dd6ob4b29f011ab3dbaf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <008b01c6adb8$17d6d220$6501a8c0@barry> No idea then, my HDOS memory isn't that good. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Mark Garlanger Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 1:07 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] HDOS boot/space bar question. Hi Barry, I'm not talking about the "H: Boot", but after that step. With a CP/M disk, after "H: Boot", the H89 boots all the way to a command prompt. For HDOS, I just verified three different behavior with three different HDOS 2.0 disks (On the same H89 without changing any dipswitches). For the first one, the light comes on, then goes off. (I initially thought the disk was bad.) After a few space bar presses, the prompt: ACTION? comes up. Options are either BOOT, CHECK, or HELP. Pressing 'B' continues the boot until the date prompt. Enter the date, and the next prompt is the command prompt. The second disk does not require the spaces, but immediately gets to the "ACTION? " prompt. Then it continues as the first disk did. On my third disk, I do the "H: Boot", it SKIPS the "ACTION? " step and immediately displays the HDOS banner and the first prompt is the date, followed by the command prompt. Mark On 7/22/06, Barry Watzman wrote: > The space bar was to detect the baud rate. > > I think that there was as dip switch setting for autoboot on or off. The > boot prompt was coming from the ROM, not from HDOS, and there are different > ROMs. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of > Mark Garlanger > Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 12:26 PM > To: sebhc > Subject: [sebhc] HDOS boot/space bar question. > > Does anyone know what makes HDOS decide if it needs the user to press > space bars before booting? I heard that it was to detect the baud rate > between the computer and terminal, but only some of my disks require > that, even though they are all ver. 2.0. I was thinking that a bunch > of my disk were bad since they weren't booting, until I remembered > about the 'space bar' thing. Also, if I remember correctly, there is > a way to make HDOS just boot, instead of presenting the > question. How can you change it? My final question is about HDOS > capitalizing everything. A few of my disks decide that everying must > be capitalized, how do I change that? > > Thanks, > Mark > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From sp11 at hotmail.com Sat Jul 22 13:42:50 2006 From: sp11 at hotmail.com (Steven Parker) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 18:42:50 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] Re: HDOS boot/space bar question. In-Reply-To: <704e82240607221007v1c182dd6ob4b29f011ab3dbaf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 18:42:50 GMT Hi Mark, >The second disk >does not require the spaces, but immediately gets to the "ACTION? I'm a bit fuzzy on this one. I do recall that prior to HDOS 2.0 it was a popular patch to apply to the boot sector of the disk, perhaps it was also done by patch to HDOS 2.0. If it's done by patch, then if you use the disk that has the behavior as the source to sysgen others, they will also have this behavior. >On my third it SKIPS the "ACTION? " step and If you wait a while, a timer expires and the default action (boot) is initiated. Setting the timer to 0 causes it to boot immediately. But at the moment, I don't recall if this was done with a patch or a setting. >immediately displays the HDOS banner and the first prompt is the date, >followed by the command prompt. "set hdos nodate" to skip the date setting on boot. It can be set later by command. >>A few of my disks decide that everying must >>be capitalized, how do I change that? "set tt: nomlo" and "set tt: nomli" (no mapping lowercase on input/output). Try "set tt: help" as there may be some other options you might like to have. "set tt: bks" and "set tt: bkm" for example. -- Steven -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Sat Jul 22 19:30:26 2006 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 19:30:26 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Re: DISKETTE IMAGES In-Reply-To: <003d01c6ad1d$ced0e010$6501a8c0@shuttle> References: <000c01c6ad06$563dd660$55b4400a@EAST.VIS.COM> <003d01c6ad1d$ced0e010$6501a8c0@shuttle> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <704e82240607221730p5609d4d4wda68192e59704d17@mail.gmail.com> The other thing to remember is that the library is password protected, so it's not openly available on the internet or index by a search engine like google. Due to the fact that NONE of this software is commercially available, and much of it is very likely to be lost forever since the most of original companies probably don't have any copies of it either (like the Evryware games), I think we should make the library as complete as possible, and if there is a complaint remove it. I have several disks to make images of and upload. I want to make backup copies while making the images, but unfortunately I don't have enough blank hard-sectored media to make backup copies of all software(I loaded up with plenty of soft-sectored media but still don't have a working controller). I'm hoping that this situation will change in the near future. On 7/21/06, Glenn Roberts wrote: > From the earliest days copyright has been about protecting the ability of an > author to financially gain from his/her work > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_copyright#Prehistory_of_copyright > > The days of Microsoft deriving any monetary income from CP/M Cobol are long > gone. The real test would seem to be: are you denying them a sale? Since the > product has been off the market for 25 years it seems unlikely! > > It's hard believe that Microsoft would care about such a posting, and at any > rate the stated policy of the sebhc web site is to remove material if a > legitimate copyright owner comes forward and requests such action. > Ironically much of this "antique" software is in danger of being lost > forever - it is largely through the efforts of groups like this one that it > is being rescued from bit rot! The single biggest impediment to this > preservation process is the unfounded fear of somehow violating the rights > of vendors who have long ago stopped marketing these programs (and in most > cases long ago gone out of business!) > > There are some enlightened souls out there who have tried to help. Dan > Bricklin has made the original Visicalc available > (http://danbricklin.com/visicalc.htm), Borland has posted its old Turbo > C/Pascal products (http://bdn.borland.com/museum), and Cladera made the > source code for CP/M available > (http://www.retroarchive.org/cpm/archive/unofficial/source.html), among > others. > > Anyone want to write to Microsoft and suggest they stand up a museum of > antique software site on the microsoft.com home page? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Loguidice" > To: > Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 4:43 PM > Subject: RE: [sebhc] DISKETTE IMAGES > > > > I'd have to disagree about being wary of posting the images, even though > > they're originally from Microsoft. While certainly it would be a sore > > point > > and a no-no if it were something even remotely modern, there is countless > > classic Microsoft software on the Web freely available for a variety of > > platforms. While that doesn't make it right, the point is is that I'm not > > aware of a single case where Microsoft has taken any action against these > > sites or individuals. If Microsoft and images for "mainstream" systems of > > the past from the likes of Commodore, TI and Atari didn't raise an > > eyebrow, > > why would something like that in HDOS format, since that's about as niche > > as > > one could get? Again, it doesn't make it right, but sometimes we have to > > make hard decisions when it comes to archiving truly "obsolete" software > > that will never have value again to the original copyright holder. > > > > ====================================== > > Bill Loguidice, Managing Director > > Armchair Arcade, Inc. > > (A PC Magazine Top 100 Website) > > ====================================== > > http://www.armchairarcade.com > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org > >> [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Barry Watzman > >> Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 4:29 PM > >> To: sebhc at sebhc.org > >> Subject: RE: [sebhc] DISKETTE IMAGES > >> > >> > >> However, I'd be far more cautious about posting these than I > >> would be with > >> most other software from that era. It goes without saying > >> that Microsoft > >> still very much exists and might object to the software being posted. > > > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Sat Jul 22 19:33:45 2006 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 19:33:45 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H8-17 controller In-Reply-To: <44AEA3D9.7040306@sc.rr.com> References: <44AEA3D9.7040306@sc.rr.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <704e82240607221733l7e7d74bcu8576703bba8e0ab6@mail.gmail.com> Hi Carroll, Are you still looking for one? I should be getting one of those controllers with an H17-3 enclosure this week. I currently only have H89s, so I'm not going to need it. Mark On 7/7/06, Carroll Waddell wrote: > does anyone have an H8-17 disk controller they are willing to sell? > Carroll > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Sat Jul 22 23:04:44 2006 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 23:04:44 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H8-17 controller In-Reply-To: <704e82240607221733l7e7d74bcu8576703bba8e0ab6@mail.gmail.com> References: <44AEA3D9.7040306@sc.rr.com> <704e82240607221733l7e7d74bcu8576703bba8e0ab6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44C2F55C.6050604@earthlink.net> Mark Garlanger wrote: > Hi Carroll, > > Are you still looking for one? I should be getting one of those > controllers with an H17-3 enclosure this week. I currently only have > H89s, so I'm not going to need it. Mark, if Carroll doesn't want it, I would like to buy it. I have an H8, but no disk controller card for it. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Sat Jul 22 23:28:58 2006 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 23:28:58 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H8-17 controller In-Reply-To: <44C2F55C.6050604@earthlink.net> References: <44AEA3D9.7040306@sc.rr.com> <704e82240607221733l7e7d74bcu8576703bba8e0ab6@mail.gmail.com> <44C2F55C.6050604@earthlink.net> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <704e82240607222128u551a02dcs3d2704757c542ad6@mail.gmail.com> Ok, the shipment got delayed, so hopefully it'll be shipped on Monday. Mark On 7/22/06, Lee Hart wrote: > Mark Garlanger wrote: > > Hi Carroll, > > > > Are you still looking for one? I should be getting one of those > > controllers with an H17-3 enclosure this week. I currently only have > > H89s, so I'm not going to need it. > > Mark, if Carroll doesn't want it, I would like to buy it. I have an H8, > but no disk controller card for it. > -- > Ring the bells that still can ring > Forget the perfect offering > There is a crack in everything > That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen > -- > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Sun Jul 23 00:01:03 2006 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 00:01:03 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Question about testing the Z-89-37 controller Message-ID: <704e82240607222201x79ff327av3f7dd5c957d5ca59@mail.gmail.com> I bought up a DMM that has a frequency measurement (supports 10 Hz - 10 MHz). The Z-89-37 manual states that you should "connect the frequency counter to test point 2 on the board." Do I just put the positive lead on test point 2 and leave the negative lead floating? It doesn't state where the negative lead should be placed. I tested a power outlet and with only the positive lead inserted it read 59.97-60.02 but was jumping around (that small range) alot more than if I inserted the negative lead also. So if it's valid to only place the positive lead, then my reading is WAY off. It should be 2 MHz, but the DMM is reading 15.84 KHz. I haven't yet tried to turn/adjust R17 because I can not figure out how I'm supposed to get to it and wanted to make sure I was measuring it properly before adjusting. A screwdriver of ANY length will be blocked by the CRT, and I don't think I should have my hand that close to the CRT. Now that I think about it, I do remember my dad having long narrow plastic tool that would probably work good for this. Mark -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From bill at elkcomm.com Sun Jul 23 01:00:18 2006 From: bill at elkcomm.com (William Elkins) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 02:00:18 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Question about testing the Z-89-37 controller In-Reply-To: <704e82240607222201x79ff327av3f7dd5c957d5ca59@mail.gmail.com> References: <704e82240607222201x79ff327av3f7dd5c957d5ca59@mail.gmail.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: Typically measurements are made referenced to chassis ground. One lead should go to ground point of the power feed on the card and the other lead goes to the test point. The 15.84KHz is the horizontal scan on the crt. As this freq is also used to generate the hi voltage for the crt there is a lot it available to be detected. Bill Elkins On 7/23/06, Mark Garlanger wrote: > I bought up a DMM that has a frequency measurement (supports 10 Hz - > 10 MHz). The Z-89-37 manual states that you should "connect the > frequency counter to test point 2 on the board." Do I just put the > positive lead on test point 2 and leave the negative lead floating? It > doesn't state where the negative lead should be placed. I tested a > power outlet and with only the positive lead inserted it read > 59.97-60.02 but was jumping around (that small range) alot more than > if I inserted the negative lead also. > > So if it's valid to only place the positive lead, then my reading is > WAY off. It should be 2 MHz, but the DMM is reading 15.84 KHz. I > haven't yet tried to turn/adjust R17 because I can not figure out how > I'm supposed to get to it and wanted to make sure I was measuring it > properly before adjusting. A screwdriver of ANY length will be blocked > by the CRT, and I don't think I should have my hand that close to the > CRT. Now that I think about it, I do remember my dad having long > narrow plastic tool that would probably work good for this. > > Mark > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Sun Jul 23 02:04:10 2006 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 02:04:10 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Question about testing the Z-89-37 controller In-Reply-To: References: <704e82240607222201x79ff327av3f7dd5c957d5ca59@mail.gmail.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <704e82240607230004n374290cfy8f2d8797b862e191@mail.gmail.com> I'm not sure where the controller's ground is, but I used the Black on connect P516 on the CPU board. It seems good since it's the same ground I used to test the VCO Bias Voltage - got 1.418 V, manual wants 1.42 V. Now with the negative lead on ground, the DMM shows 0.000 Hz. For the heck of it I measured the voltage on Test Point 2, and saw 2.013 V. Anyone have any ideas why the VCO center frequency would be zero? Mark On 7/23/06, William Elkins wrote: > Typically measurements are made referenced to chassis ground. One lead > should go to ground point of the power feed on the card and the other > lead goes to the test point. > > The 15.84KHz is the horizontal scan on the crt. As this freq is also > used to generate the hi voltage for the crt there is a lot it > available to be detected. > > Bill Elkins > > On 7/23/06, Mark Garlanger wrote: > > I bought up a DMM that has a frequency measurement (supports 10 Hz - > > 10 MHz). The Z-89-37 manual states that you should "connect the > > frequency counter to test point 2 on the board." Do I just put the > > positive lead on test point 2 and leave the negative lead floating? It > > doesn't state where the negative lead should be placed. I tested a > > power outlet and with only the positive lead inserted it read > > 59.97-60.02 but was jumping around (that small range) alot more than > > if I inserted the negative lead also. > > > > So if it's valid to only place the positive lead, then my reading is > > WAY off. It should be 2 MHz, but the DMM is reading 15.84 KHz. I > > haven't yet tried to turn/adjust R17 because I can not figure out how > > I'm supposed to get to it and wanted to make sure I was measuring it > > properly before adjusting. A screwdriver of ANY length will be blocked > > by the CRT, and I don't think I should have my hand that close to the > > CRT. Now that I think about it, I do remember my dad having long > > narrow plastic tool that would probably work good for this. > > > > Mark > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sun Jul 23 04:22:53 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 05:22:53 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Question about testing the Z-89-37 controller In-Reply-To: <704e82240607222201x79ff327av3f7dd5c957d5ca59@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <002f01c6ae39$93d11580$6701a8c0@barry> The negative lead is always understood to go to ground unless otherwise specified. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Mark Garlanger Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 1:01 AM To: sebhc Subject: [sebhc] Question about testing the Z-89-37 controller I bought up a DMM that has a frequency measurement (supports 10 Hz - 10 MHz). The Z-89-37 manual states that you should "connect the frequency counter to test point 2 on the board." Do I just put the positive lead on test point 2 and leave the negative lead floating? It doesn't state where the negative lead should be placed. I tested a power outlet and with only the positive lead inserted it read 59.97-60.02 but was jumping around (that small range) alot more than if I inserted the negative lead also. So if it's valid to only place the positive lead, then my reading is WAY off. It should be 2 MHz, but the DMM is reading 15.84 KHz. I haven't yet tried to turn/adjust R17 because I can not figure out how I'm supposed to get to it and wanted to make sure I was measuring it properly before adjusting. A screwdriver of ANY length will be blocked by the CRT, and I don't think I should have my hand that close to the CRT. Now that I think about it, I do remember my dad having long narrow plastic tool that would probably work good for this. Mark -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sun Jul 23 04:26:08 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 05:26:08 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Question about testing the Z-89-37 controller In-Reply-To: <704e82240607230004n374290cfy8f2d8797b862e191@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003001c6ae3a$07dc1d80$6701a8c0@barry> Ground is ground; chassis ground, the big metal frame brackets at the top of both the TLB and H-89's CPU board. Or the bracket holding the expansion cards in place. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Mark Garlanger Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 3:04 AM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] Question about testing the Z-89-37 controller I'm not sure where the controller's ground is, but I used the Black on connect P516 on the CPU board. It seems good since it's the same ground I used to test the VCO Bias Voltage - got 1.418 V, manual wants 1.42 V. Now with the negative lead on ground, the DMM shows 0.000 Hz. For the heck of it I measured the voltage on Test Point 2, and saw 2.013 V. Anyone have any ideas why the VCO center frequency would be zero? Mark On 7/23/06, William Elkins wrote: > Typically measurements are made referenced to chassis ground. One lead > should go to ground point of the power feed on the card and the other > lead goes to the test point. > > The 15.84KHz is the horizontal scan on the crt. As this freq is also > used to generate the hi voltage for the crt there is a lot it > available to be detected. > > Bill Elkins > > On 7/23/06, Mark Garlanger wrote: > > I bought up a DMM that has a frequency measurement (supports 10 Hz - > > 10 MHz). The Z-89-37 manual states that you should "connect the > > frequency counter to test point 2 on the board." Do I just put the > > positive lead on test point 2 and leave the negative lead floating? It > > doesn't state where the negative lead should be placed. I tested a > > power outlet and with only the positive lead inserted it read > > 59.97-60.02 but was jumping around (that small range) alot more than > > if I inserted the negative lead also. > > > > So if it's valid to only place the positive lead, then my reading is > > WAY off. It should be 2 MHz, but the DMM is reading 15.84 KHz. I > > haven't yet tried to turn/adjust R17 because I can not figure out how > > I'm supposed to get to it and wanted to make sure I was measuring it > > properly before adjusting. A screwdriver of ANY length will be blocked > > by the CRT, and I don't think I should have my hand that close to the > > CRT. Now that I think about it, I do remember my dad having long > > narrow plastic tool that would probably work good for this. > > > > Mark > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Sun Jul 23 07:33:22 2006 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 08:33:22 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H8-17 controller In-Reply-To: <704e82240607221733l7e7d74bcu8576703bba8e0ab6@mail.gmail.com> References: <44AEA3D9.7040306@sc.rr.com> <704e82240607221733l7e7d74bcu8576703bba8e0ab6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44C36C92.9070709@sc.rr.com> Mark Garlanger wrote: > Hi Carroll, > > Are you still looking for one? I should be getting one of those > controllers with an H17-3 enclosure this week. I currently only have > H89s, so I'm not going to need it. > > Mark > > On 7/7/06, Carroll Waddell wrote: > >> does anyone have an H8-17 disk controller they are willing to sell? >> Carroll >> -- >> Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > Mark, Let Lee have the controller. I finally debugged the one I have, and got it working. My H8 system is working correctly. Thanks anyway. Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Sun Jul 23 09:58:37 2006 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 09:58:37 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Question about testing the Z-89-37 controller In-Reply-To: <003001c6ae3a$07dc1d80$6701a8c0@barry> References: <704e82240607230004n374290cfy8f2d8797b862e191@mail.gmail.com> <003001c6ae3a$07dc1d80$6701a8c0@barry> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <704e82240607230758ue4e571esc44c3de7df242491@mail.gmail.com> I got 0.000 Hz again when using either of the metal frame brackets. I looked at the schematic, it looks like either U17 is bad, or it's not getting the right signals to generate the frequency. I do have another controller board that I haven't been able to install because the connectors are loose, I may try to swap the chip in U17 to see if that helps. Mark On 7/23/06, Barry Watzman wrote: > Ground is ground; chassis ground, the big metal frame brackets at the top of > both the TLB and H-89's CPU board. Or the bracket holding the expansion > cards in place. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of > Mark Garlanger > Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 3:04 AM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: Re: [sebhc] Question about testing the Z-89-37 controller > > I'm not sure where the controller's ground is, but I used the Black on > connect P516 on the CPU board. It seems good since it's the same > ground I used to test the VCO Bias Voltage - got 1.418 V, manual wants > 1.42 V. Now with the negative lead on ground, the DMM shows 0.000 Hz. > For the heck of it I measured the voltage on Test Point 2, and saw > 2.013 V. Anyone have any ideas why the VCO center frequency would be > zero? > > Mark > > On 7/23/06, William Elkins wrote: > > Typically measurements are made referenced to chassis ground. One lead > > should go to ground point of the power feed on the card and the other > > lead goes to the test point. > > > > The 15.84KHz is the horizontal scan on the crt. As this freq is also > > used to generate the hi voltage for the crt there is a lot it > > available to be detected. > > > > Bill Elkins > > > > On 7/23/06, Mark Garlanger wrote: > > > I bought up a DMM that has a frequency measurement (supports 10 Hz - > > > 10 MHz). The Z-89-37 manual states that you should "connect the > > > frequency counter to test point 2 on the board." Do I just put the > > > positive lead on test point 2 and leave the negative lead floating? It > > > doesn't state where the negative lead should be placed. I tested a > > > power outlet and with only the positive lead inserted it read > > > 59.97-60.02 but was jumping around (that small range) alot more than > > > if I inserted the negative lead also. > > > > > > So if it's valid to only place the positive lead, then my reading is > > > WAY off. It should be 2 MHz, but the DMM is reading 15.84 KHz. I > > > haven't yet tried to turn/adjust R17 because I can not figure out how > > > I'm supposed to get to it and wanted to make sure I was measuring it > > > properly before adjusting. A screwdriver of ANY length will be blocked > > > by the CRT, and I don't think I should have my hand that close to the > > > CRT. Now that I think about it, I do remember my dad having long > > > narrow plastic tool that would probably work good for this. > > > > > > Mark > > > -- > > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Sun Jul 23 10:17:17 2006 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 10:17:17 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Question about testing the Z-89-37 controller In-Reply-To: <704e82240607222201x79ff327av3f7dd5c957d5ca59@mail.gmail.com> References: <704e82240607222201x79ff327av3f7dd5c957d5ca59@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44C392FD.4060405@earthlink.net> Mark Garlanger wrote: > I bought up a DMM that has a frequency measurement (supports 10 Hz - > 10 MHz). The Z-89-37 manual states that you should "connect the > frequency counter to test point 2 on the board." Do I just put the > positive lead on test point 2 and leave the negative lead floating? It > doesn't state where the negative lead should be placed. I tested a > power outlet and with only the positive lead inserted it read > 59.97-60.02 but was jumping around (that small range) alot more than > if I inserted the negative lead also. Just like making a voltage measurment, you need to connect both the positive and negative leads to the circuit being measured. Actually, I'm impressed that connecting it to the AC power line didn't smoke the meter. The frequency scale is intended for low-level signals like 5v logic; not 120vac! > So if it's valid to only place the positive lead, then my reading is > WAY off. It should be 2 MHz, but the DMM is reading 15.84 KHz. Try it with the negative meter lead on ground. The disk controller circuit can't generate 15 KHz, but the video board certainly can! With the ground wire floating, you're probably measuring the radiated noise from the flyback and yoke on the video board. The noise from the video board is so strong that you may have to twist the meter leads together and connect the ground very close to the test point for measuring the 2 MHz to get a good reading. > I haven't yet tried to turn/adjust R17 because I can not figure out how > I'm supposed to get to it and wanted to make sure I was measuring it > properly before adjusting. A screwdriver of ANY length will be blocked > by the CRT, and I don't think I should have my hand that close to the > CRT. The black coating on the outside of the CRT is supposed to be grounded by the long wire and springs that run over it. So, it is normally safe to touch that part of the CRT. The yoke on the neck of the CRT, the flyback transformer, and the heavily insulated lead that goes to the left side of the CRT are *not* safe to touch! You can get a very bad "bite" from them indeed! When I need to work on an H89 CPU board or anything on it, I remove the CRT board, and re-mount it horizontally, above the top of the CRT, so all the accessory boards stick straight up. The existing cables are all long enough as-is, though you have to re-arrange them around things. Put some insulating pad across the top of the CRT, so the CPU board traces don't short to the metal band around the CRT. Use the two screws at the top left and right corners of the CPU to hold it to the vertical supports as usual. Now you can "get at" everything while it is still connected and working. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Sun Jul 23 12:34:04 2006 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 12:34:04 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Question about testing the Z-89-37 controller In-Reply-To: <44C392FD.4060405@earthlink.net> References: <704e82240607222201x79ff327av3f7dd5c957d5ca59@mail.gmail.com> <44C392FD.4060405@earthlink.net> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <704e82240607231034t3c41699fv69f7d592cf44c654@mail.gmail.com> On 7/23/06, Lee Hart wrote: > Mark Garlanger wrote: > > I bought up a DMM that has a frequency measurement (supports 10 Hz - > > 10 MHz). The Z-89-37 manual states that you should "connect the > > frequency counter to test point 2 on the board." Do I just put the > > positive lead on test point 2 and leave the negative lead floating? It > > doesn't state where the negative lead should be placed. I tested a > > power outlet and with only the positive lead inserted it read > > 59.97-60.02 but was jumping around (that small range) alot more than > > if I inserted the negative lead also. > > Just like making a voltage measurment, you need to connect both the > positive and negative leads to the circuit being measured. Actually, I'm > impressed that connecting it to the AC power line didn't smoke the > meter. The frequency scale is intended for low-level signals like 5v > logic; not 120vac! > The probes are across the connectors that state "600V max" and I didn't see any other warnings in the book, so 120V should be fine. Infact, the specs seem only concerned about min not max, see my next comment. > > So if it's valid to only place the positive lead, then my reading is > > WAY off. It should be 2 MHz, but the DMM is reading 15.84 KHz. > > Try it with the negative meter lead on ground. The disk controller > circuit can't generate 15 KHz, but the video board certainly can! With > the ground wire floating, you're probably measuring the radiated noise > from the flyback and yoke on the video board. The noise from the video > board is so strong that you may have to twist the meter leads together > and connect the ground very close to the test point for measuring the 2 > MHz to get a good reading. > With the negative grounded, I see 0.000 Hz. But your earlier comment cause me to look closer at the specs and I think I see the problem I'm having this DMM: For the frequency section, it states: "sensitivity: 0.8V rms min @ 20-80% duty cycle and <100 kHz; 5V rms min @ 20-80% duty cycle and >100 kHz." Since the VCO bias voltage is only 1.42 V and the frequency is well above 100 kHz, the DMM is not sensitive enough to pick up the signal. I'm going to go back to Fry's to return this one and see if they have another reasonably priced DMM that able to measure this. > > I haven't yet tried to turn/adjust R17 because I can not figure out how > > I'm supposed to get to it and wanted to make sure I was measuring it > > properly before adjusting. A screwdriver of ANY length will be blocked > > by the CRT, and I don't think I should have my hand that close to the > > CRT. > > The black coating on the outside of the CRT is supposed to be grounded > by the long wire and springs that run over it. So, it is normally safe > to touch that part of the CRT. > > The yoke on the neck of the CRT, the flyback transformer, and the > heavily insulated lead that goes to the left side of the CRT are *not* > safe to touch! You can get a very bad "bite" from them indeed! > Yea, trying to turn R17 would put my hand VERY close to the yoke at the back of the neck of the CRT. > When I need to work on an H89 CPU board or anything on it, I remove the > CRT board, and re-mount it horizontally, above the top of the CRT, so > all the accessory boards stick straight up. The existing cables are all > long enough as-is, though you have to re-arrange them around things. Put > some insulating pad across the top of the CRT, so the CPU board traces > don't short to the metal band around the CRT. Use the two screws at the > top left and right corners of the CPU to hold it to the vertical > supports as usual. Now you can "get at" everything while it is still > connected and working. That sounds like a good plan. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From wm65805 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 24 11:15:15 2006 From: wm65805 at hotmail.com (bill malcolm) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 11:15:15 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] DISKETTE IMAGES Fair use if not sold ? References: <072120062023.8379.44C137CB00070E0E000020BB2200760180CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> Message-ID: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 16:18:44 +0000 A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 4743 bytes Desc: not available URL: From d.a.johansson at telia.com Mon Jul 24 13:45:56 2006 From: d.a.johansson at telia.com (Dan Johansson) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 20:45:56 +0200 Subject: [SPAM] [sebhc] Dwights BIN Loader Message-ID: Version 9 works OK for me on a H89. It fail to read the Boot Image Disk itself but ordinary HDOS formatted disks works fine I transfer the images from the H89 to the harddisk on a Toshiba laptop. Dan -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From d.a.johansson at telia.com Tue Jul 25 17:26:04 2006 From: d.a.johansson at telia.com (Dan Johansson) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 00:26:04 +0200 Subject: [sebhc] New uploads Message-ID: Hello I have added the files: REACH_Modem_And_File_Transfer_by_WB_SoftwareToolworks.h8d 885-1062A_VIII-DsmDumpDupMemtest.h8d H89LDR9_Patch_DJnotes.zip in the upload area >From Software Toolworks I have also a very good chess pgm. for HDOS called MYCHESS Championship Chess Player, written by David Kittinger. Is it OK to upload this to the sebhc archive ? I have found a similar PC-DOS version "floating" on the net but it would be good if the original Copyright holder gave his permission to store this fine pgm. in the achive. Best regards Dan J -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From d.a.johansson at telia.com Tue Jul 25 17:36:49 2006 From: d.a.johansson at telia.com (Dan Johansson) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 00:36:49 +0200 Subject: [sebhc] Dwights BIN Loader In-Reply-To: <44C25C57.9040909@sc.rr.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.50 BSF_RULE7568M BODY: Custom Rule 7568M Message-ID: Version 9 works OK for me on a H89. It fail to read the Boot Image Disk itself but ordinary HDOS formatted disks works fine I transfer the images from the H89 to the harddisk on a Toshiba laptop. A patch to use port D0H instead of E0H on the H88-3 serial board and some comments re. use of IRQ settings and different cable types is added in the upload area. See file H89LDR9_Patch_DJnotes.zip Dan -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org]On Behalf Of Carroll Waddell Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 7:12 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: [sebhc] Dwights BIN Loader Is there a later version than 9 of Dwight Elveys image transfer program. I can READ a diskette image with version 8, but not with version 9. Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dkelvey at hotmail.com Thu Jul 27 00:17:56 2006 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 22:17:56 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Dwights BIN Loader In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 05:17:56 GMT Hi The reason it doesn't read the Boot Image Disk is because that is only partially formatted. I just format the first track. This is enough to load the needed code. I didn't consider it necessary to do the entire disk since it could be easily created from scratch if needed. Dwight >From: "Dan Johansson" > >Version 9 works OK for me on a H89. >It fail to read the Boot Image Disk itself but ordinary HDOS formatted >disks >works fine >I transfer the images from the H89 to the harddisk on a Toshiba laptop. > >Dan > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Sat Jul 29 15:16:25 2006 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 15:16:25 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H17-3 Power supply Message-ID: <704e82240607291316m62e22a50tbcb6f5f09cef0c87@mail.gmail.com> I just received an H17-3 drive case and drives. I was told that "The H17-3 triple drive blew a fuse when I turned it on" I tested the fuse, and unless he replaced it, the fuse is fine. What's preventing me from testing/turning on the case, is that there is NO diode bridge on the power supply board. There is the spot to put 4 diodes, but two of them are empty and the other two (very top and bottom) just have a wire there. I betting that it's putting an huge extra burden on the voltage regulators. The board is slightly older board than I have in my other two drive cases, (85-2107-2 vs. 85-2107-3), but I can't imagine that a diode bridge would isn't be needed. According to my Z37 manual, those should be 3A, 100V diodes. The closest thing I found out the local Fry's are 5A, 100V - I'm assuming that the higher amps just mean they can handle more and can be used in place of the 3A ones. Let me know if that is the wrong assumption. Also, Fry's had a square little 'diode bridge', internally it's all 4 diodes properly connected. It's rated 8A, 100V - I don't remember enough of my EE to be sure if that would be proper to replace it. Looking at the circuit, I'm thinking that the current is only going through one diode at at time, therefore a diode bridge that was rated at 3A, 100V would be an equivalent replacement, so this 8A one should also be fine. Let me know if I'm mistaken here too. Thanks, Mark -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Sat Jul 29 15:42:14 2006 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 16:42:14 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H17-3 Power supply In-Reply-To: <704e82240607291316m62e22a50tbcb6f5f09cef0c87@mail.gmail.com> References: <704e82240607291316m62e22a50tbcb6f5f09cef0c87@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44CBC826.1060901@sc.rr.com> Mark Garlanger wrote: > I just received an H17-3 drive case and drives. I was told that > "The H17-3 triple drive blew a fuse when I turned it on" > > I tested the fuse, and unless he replaced it, the fuse is fine. > What's preventing me from testing/turning on the case, is that > there is NO diode bridge on the power supply board. There is > the spot to put 4 diodes, but two of them are empty and the > other two (very top and bottom) just have a wire there. I betting > that it's putting an huge extra burden on the voltage regulators. > > The board is slightly older board than I have in my other two > drive cases, (85-2107-2 vs. 85-2107-3), but I can't imagine that > a diode bridge would isn't be needed. According to my Z37 > manual, those should be 3A, 100V diodes. The closest thing > I found out the local Fry's are 5A, 100V - I'm assuming that the > higher amps just mean they can handle more and can be > used in place of the 3A ones. Let me know if that is the wrong > assumption. Also, Fry's had a square little 'diode bridge', internally > it's all 4 diodes properly connected. It's rated 8A, 100V - I don't > remember enough of my EE to be sure if that would be proper > to replace it. Looking at the circuit, I'm thinking that the current is > only going through one diode at at time, therefore a diode > bridge that was rated at 3A, 100V would be an equivalent > replacement, so this 8A one should also be fine. Let me know if > I'm mistaken here too. > > Thanks, > Mark > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > Mark, I had a 2 drive system first, then went to a 3 drive system. If I remember, the power supply was just moved from 1 metal box to the other. The power supply should be the same one on your 2 drive box. Be careful about the fuse. It is there to protect something else. If you go with too large a fuse, you might burn up the something else rather than the fuse. If you want, I have a large supply of fuses of all kinds, and I will see if I can find you one. Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Sat Jul 29 16:16:33 2006 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 16:16:33 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Re: H17-3 Power supply In-Reply-To: <44CBC826.1060901@sc.rr.com> References: <704e82240607291316m62e22a50tbcb6f5f09cef0c87@mail.gmail.com> <44CBC826.1060901@sc.rr.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <704e82240607291416s83566aawa2afc14e23b5e679@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Maybe my message was a little confusing. The seller 'told' me that the fuse had blown, but I tested the fuse and it was fine. But, there was no power supply diodes, instead two wires, connected the circuit. All the voltage and amp specifications were for possible diodes to install on the power supply circuit board. On 7/29/06, Carroll Waddell wrote: > Mark Garlanger wrote: > > > I just received an H17-3 drive case and drives. I was told that > > "The H17-3 triple drive blew a fuse when I turned it on" > > > > I tested the fuse, and unless he replaced it, the fuse is fine. > > What's preventing me from testing/turning on the case, is that > > there is NO diode bridge on the power supply board. There is > > the spot to put 4 diodes, but two of them are empty and the > > other two (very top and bottom) just have a wire there. I betting > > that it's putting an huge extra burden on the voltage regulators. > > > > The board is slightly older board than I have in my other two > > drive cases, (85-2107-2 vs. 85-2107-3), but I can't imagine that > > a diode bridge would isn't be needed. According to my Z37 > > manual, those should be 3A, 100V diodes. The closest thing > > I found out the local Fry's are 5A, 100V - I'm assuming that the > > higher amps just mean they can handle more and can be > > used in place of the 3A ones. Let me know if that is the wrong > > assumption. Also, Fry's had a square little 'diode bridge', internally > > it's all 4 diodes properly connected. It's rated 8A, 100V - I don't > > remember enough of my EE to be sure if that would be proper > > to replace it. Looking at the circuit, I'm thinking that the current is > > only going through one diode at at time, therefore a diode > > bridge that was rated at 3A, 100V would be an equivalent > > replacement, so this 8A one should also be fine. Let me know if > > I'm mistaken here too. > > > > Thanks, > > Mark > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > Mark, > I had a 2 drive system first, then went to a 3 drive system. If I > remember, the power supply was just moved from 1 metal box to the other. > The power supply should be the same one on your 2 drive box. > Be careful about the fuse. It is there to protect something else. If you > go with too large a fuse, you might burn up the something else rather > than the fuse. > If you want, I have a large supply of fuses of all kinds, and I will see > if I can find you one. > Carroll > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sat Jul 29 16:39:04 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 17:39:04 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H17-3 Power supply In-Reply-To: <704e82240607291316m62e22a50tbcb6f5f09cef0c87@mail.gmail.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <001d01c6b357$69f701c0$6400a8c0@barry> With no diode bridge (or with wires for 2 of the diodes), you would be putting AC instead of DC into the unit. This could be catastrophic, it could destroy not only the power supply, but the drives. Almost any power diode will work. You need a maxiumum of a couple of amps per drive, so say 6 amps max (but probably not really that much), the voltages are all low (50 volt diodes would be fine). If the diodes are used in a full wave bridge, then the single square part would also work. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Mark Garlanger Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 4:16 PM To: sebhc Subject: [sebhc] H17-3 Power supply I just received an H17-3 drive case and drives. I was told that "The H17-3 triple drive blew a fuse when I turned it on" I tested the fuse, and unless he replaced it, the fuse is fine. What's preventing me from testing/turning on the case, is that there is NO diode bridge on the power supply board. There is the spot to put 4 diodes, but two of them are empty and the other two (very top and bottom) just have a wire there. I betting that it's putting an huge extra burden on the voltage regulators. The board is slightly older board than I have in my other two drive cases, (85-2107-2 vs. 85-2107-3), but I can't imagine that a diode bridge would isn't be needed. According to my Z37 manual, those should be 3A, 100V diodes. The closest thing I found out the local Fry's are 5A, 100V - I'm assuming that the higher amps just mean they can handle more and can be used in place of the 3A ones. Let me know if that is the wrong assumption. Also, Fry's had a square little 'diode bridge', internally it's all 4 diodes properly connected. It's rated 8A, 100V - I don't remember enough of my EE to be sure if that would be proper to replace it. Looking at the circuit, I'm thinking that the current is only going through one diode at at time, therefore a diode bridge that was rated at 3A, 100V would be an equivalent replacement, so this 8A one should also be fine. Let me know if I'm mistaken here too. Thanks, Mark -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Sat Jul 29 17:56:00 2006 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 17:56:00 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H17-3 Power supply In-Reply-To: <001d01c6b357$69f701c0$6400a8c0@barry> References: <704e82240607291316m62e22a50tbcb6f5f09cef0c87@mail.gmail.com> <001d01c6b357$69f701c0$6400a8c0@barry> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <704e82240607291556t564723e6ubccc8068cb97a990@mail.gmail.com> I took all three drives and was able to get a better view of the power supply. I feel better now, it appears that some diode bridge was added and mounted on the bottom of the case. I not sure if that was an upgrade for supporting all three drives, or some type of user modification. Mark On 7/29/06, Barry Watzman wrote: > With no diode bridge (or with wires for 2 of the diodes), you would be > putting AC instead of DC into the unit. This could be catastrophic, it > could destroy not only the power supply, but the drives. > > Almost any power diode will work. You need a maxiumum of a couple of amps > per drive, so say 6 amps max (but probably not really that much), the > voltages are all low (50 volt diodes would be fine). > > If the diodes are used in a full wave bridge, then the single square part > would also work. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of > Mark Garlanger > Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 4:16 PM > To: sebhc > Subject: [sebhc] H17-3 Power supply > > I just received an H17-3 drive case and drives. I was told that > "The H17-3 triple drive blew a fuse when I turned it on" > > I tested the fuse, and unless he replaced it, the fuse is fine. > What's preventing me from testing/turning on the case, is that > there is NO diode bridge on the power supply board. There is > the spot to put 4 diodes, but two of them are empty and the > other two (very top and bottom) just have a wire there. I betting > that it's putting an huge extra burden on the voltage regulators. > > The board is slightly older board than I have in my other two > drive cases, (85-2107-2 vs. 85-2107-3), but I can't imagine that > a diode bridge would isn't be needed. According to my Z37 > manual, those should be 3A, 100V diodes. The closest thing > I found out the local Fry's are 5A, 100V - I'm assuming that the > higher amps just mean they can handle more and can be > used in place of the 3A ones. Let me know if that is the wrong > assumption. Also, Fry's had a square little 'diode bridge', internally > it's all 4 diodes properly connected. It's rated 8A, 100V - I don't > remember enough of my EE to be sure if that would be proper > to replace it. Looking at the circuit, I'm thinking that the current is > only going through one diode at at time, therefore a diode > bridge that was rated at 3A, 100V would be an equivalent > replacement, so this 8A one should also be fine. Let me know if > I'm mistaken here too. > > Thanks, > Mark > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Sat Jul 29 22:35:15 2006 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 22:35:15 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Z37 Diag Message-ID: <704e82240607292035m49fa57b7yf8ce87ad590f3311@mail.gmail.com> It's me and my (never ending) computer problems again (you guys are probably getting tired of these ;-) ) So, I got my H17-3 cleaned up, loaded with high-density drives, and connected to my 'questionable' soft-sectored controller. I had received the Z37 diag disks (both hard & soft-sectored versions) a little while ago, but didn't realize what they were since they came with CP/M 2.2.04 distribution disks and diag disks were labeled: "CP/M 2.2.04 Diagnostics & conversion" with no mention of Z37 or soft-sectored. I booted the hard-sectored version of the diag disk since the soft-sectored version would not boot (nor any of the soft-sect CP/M dist. disks). It starts up with "ZENITH DATA SYSTEMS Z37 SUPPORT SYSTEM" Options include 1. Disk controller checkout, and 2. General drive/controller diagnostic. Choosing option one - First it checks to see if the motors are all spinning.. and that is fine. Then it checks the drive select. That is also fine. Then it gets to: "VERIFYING HEAD POSITIONING SYSTEM. STAND BY..." Displays the following error: "NO TRACK ZERO INDICATION. CHECK HEAD MOVEMENT AND INDICATOR OPERATION." The manual provides this excellent piece of advance: "If you receive this error, call Heath or Zenith Technical Consultation for assistance." Great advance in the mid-80s, not much help now ;-) Even with that failure, I tried option 2, it didn't even get to the second menu which is shown in the manual. When I select any of the three drives, the proper drive light goes on for a little bit, prints "ERROR -" then hard-sectored drive come back on and the system locks up. This just may be failing with the same head positioning problem of the first test. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From gfroberts at adelphia.net Sun Jul 30 06:10:18 2006 From: gfroberts at adelphia.net (Glenn Roberts) Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 07:10:18 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] HDOS boot/space bar question. References: <704e82240607220926h32e6e436tcee512cfd386ee1b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <008201c6b3c8$bde943d0$6501a8c0@shuttle> You are correct, the SPACE requirement is the way the HDOS boot program detects the BAUD rate on your terminal. On the H8 you'll hear a 200 ms tone and see S.P.A.C.E. spelled out on the LED's (I'm guessing the H89 just beeps?) as an indication that you need to hit the space bar. The code tries reading from the UART using different baud rate divisors until it does not see a "framing error". At that point it has a valid baud rate divisor. If the disk is not write protected it will store that 16 bit divisor back onto the disk (I believe at offset 5 in the first sector - 042.205). On subsequent boots if the code sees a non-zero divisor it will skip the "SPACE" code and go right to the "BOOT" prompt. By default it will wait 60 seconds at the BOOT prompt, then auto-boot. You can patch this value to something less (at 044.254). Besides typing "B" for boot, you can also type "C" for checksum or "I" for ignore. If I'm reading the code properly it looks like 'C' performs a checksum on the code image loaded from the boot track to make sure it's not corrupt. I believe 'I' will cause the disk to auto-boot on subsequent boots (I'm having a problem with my H17 right now or I'd try these myself). From the code comments it looks like 'I' was added as part of HDOS-2. The code for all of this is in the INIT program: http://www.sebhc.org/archive/documents/software/HDOS-2/HOS-1-SL_595-2466-01/INIT.PDF - Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Garlanger" To: "sebhc" Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 12:26 PM Subject: [sebhc] HDOS boot/space bar question. > Does anyone know what makes HDOS decide if it needs the user to press > space bars before booting? I heard that it was to detect the baud rate > between the computer and terminal, but only some of my disks require > that, even though they are all ver. 2.0. I was thinking that a bunch > of my disk were bad since they weren't booting, until I remembered > about the 'space bar' thing. Also, if I remember correctly, there is > a way to make HDOS just boot, instead of presenting the > question. How can you change it? My final question is about HDOS > capitalizing everything. A few of my disks decide that everying must > be capitalized, how do I change that? > > Thanks, > Mark > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sun Jul 30 09:46:22 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 10:46:22 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Z37 Diag In-Reply-To: <704e82240607292035m49fa57b7yf8ce87ad590f3311@mail.gmail.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <005501c6b3e6$edba5720$6400a8c0@barry> Track 0 is a signal from the drive to the controller that the head of the disk drive is in the track 0 position. It comes directly from an optical sensor (LED and photocell, when the drive gets to track 0, a blade on the head mechanism blocks the light beam from the LED so that it never reaches the photocell). [==> On some drives, the photocell signal is "ANDed" with one phase of the stepper motor. The purpose of this is to prevent track -1 and track -2 from also producing a valid track 0 signal (yes, this really happens and, as one who has experienced it, it can cause real problems). But this is more common on 8" drives, my recollection is that 5.25" drives don't usually do this. But 96tpi 5.25" drives are more likely to do this than 48tpi drives.] The track 0 signal is a pure DC signal, and you should be able to "enable" it manually (by sticking a piece of paper or other material into the sensor) unless your drive does the stepper motor "and". Once you have track 0 FROM THE CURRENTLY SELECTED DRIVE, tracing it back through the controller should be a simple matter of checking DC voltage levels with a multi-meter. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Mark Garlanger Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 11:35 PM To: sebhc Subject: [sebhc] Z37 Diag It's me and my (never ending) computer problems again (you guys are probably getting tired of these ;-) ) So, I got my H17-3 cleaned up, loaded with high-density drives, and connected to my 'questionable' soft-sectored controller. I had received the Z37 diag disks (both hard & soft-sectored versions) a little while ago, but didn't realize what they were since they came with CP/M 2.2.04 distribution disks and diag disks were labeled: "CP/M 2.2.04 Diagnostics & conversion" with no mention of Z37 or soft-sectored. I booted the hard-sectored version of the diag disk since the soft-sectored version would not boot (nor any of the soft-sect CP/M dist. disks). It starts up with "ZENITH DATA SYSTEMS Z37 SUPPORT SYSTEM" Options include 1. Disk controller checkout, and 2. General drive/controller diagnostic. Choosing option one - First it checks to see if the motors are all spinning.. and that is fine. Then it checks the drive select. That is also fine. Then it gets to: "VERIFYING HEAD POSITIONING SYSTEM. STAND BY..." Displays the following error: "NO TRACK ZERO INDICATION. CHECK HEAD MOVEMENT AND INDICATOR OPERATION." The manual provides this excellent piece of advance: "If you receive this error, call Heath or Zenith Technical Consultation for assistance." Great advance in the mid-80s, not much help now ;-) Even with that failure, I tried option 2, it didn't even get to the second menu which is shown in the manual. When I select any of the three drives, the proper drive light goes on for a little bit, prints "ERROR -" then hard-sectored drive come back on and the system locks up. This just may be failing with the same head positioning problem of the first test. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From WVerish at aol.com Mon Jul 31 13:34:17 2006 From: WVerish at aol.com (WVerish at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 14:34:17 EDT Subject: [sebhc] Re: Cassette software tapes for H-8 Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 1469 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dave06a at dunfield.com Mon Jul 31 15:46:45 2006 From: dave06a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 15:46:45 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Re: Cassette software tapes for H-8 In-Reply-To: Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <200607311953.k6VJrumL029091@monisys.caonisys.ca> > Does anyone know where I might get any of the tapes that were included with > the H-8 computer? Also I am looking for memory chips (or a source) so I can > populate my 16K memory board for the H-8. I have the binary images of the tapes included with my H8 simulator, available at my web site below. You can load the tape images directly into the simulator, or into a real-H8 over the serial port using my H8T program (included). If you really want honest-to-goodness cassette tapes, then you can do the following: - Connect PC to H8 via serial port, select "serial" on the H8 switch, load from the monitor, and send the data with H8T to load it into the H8. - Switch to "cassette" and use the H8 monitor to write out the loaded image to cassette tape. Regards, Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From jmacgraith at cox.net Mon Jul 31 19:35:24 2006 From: jmacgraith at cox.net (jmacgraith at cox.net) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 20:35:24 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Re: Cassette software tapes for H-8 Message-ID: <18653448.1154392524094.JavaMail.root@eastrmwml01.mgt.cox.net> Wayne, Memory chips are available from resellers. My son got me 32K for my h8 a couple of years ago. I didn't ask him what he paid, but all he needed was the p/n of the chip and he had no problem procuring them. Jack ---- WVerish at aol.com wrote: > Does anyone know where I might get any of the tapes that were included with > the H-8 computer? Also I am looking for memory chips (or a source) so I can > populate my 16K memory board for the H-8. > > > Thanks much, > > Wayne Verish -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Mon Jul 31 20:53:11 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 21:53:11 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Re: Cassette software tapes for H-8 In-Reply-To: <18653448.1154392524094.JavaMail.root@eastrmwml01.mgt.cox.net> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <000301c6b50d$3eed01c0$6400a8c0@barry> The memory chips are either 1K x 4 or 4K x 1, I think that the Heath boards used 1Kx4 and these are Texas Instruments TMS4044's. There are a number of substitutes for these (2147 mainframe static memory cache chips are the best substitute, but are expensive; the MM5257 is another substitute.) The 1Kx4 chips were TMS4045's, and were also more commonly sold as 2114's (their Intel part number), but I think that the Heath boards used the 1Kx4 chips. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of jmacgraith at cox.net Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 8:35 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Cc: WVerish at aol.com Subject: Re: [sebhc] Re: Cassette software tapes for H-8 Wayne, Memory chips are available from resellers. My son got me 32K for my h8 a couple of years ago. I didn't ask him what he paid, but all he needed was the p/n of the chip and he had no problem procuring them. Jack ---- WVerish at aol.com wrote: > Does anyone know where I might get any of the tapes that were included with > the H-8 computer? Also I am looking for memory chips (or a source) so I can > populate my 16K memory board for the H-8. > > > Thanks much, > > Wayne Verish -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Mon Jul 31 21:01:39 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 22:01:39 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Re: Cassette software tapes for H-8 In-Reply-To: <000301c6b50d$3eed01c0$6400a8c0@barry> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <000901c6b50e$6d728870$6400a8c0@barry> Last sentence should read "but I think that the Heath boards used the 4Kx1 chips" [I think that the H19 TLB used the 1Kx4 parts] -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Barry Watzman Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 9:53 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: RE: [sebhc] Re: Cassette software tapes for H-8 The memory chips are either 1K x 4 or 4K x 1, I think that the Heath boards used 1Kx4 and these are Texas Instruments TMS4044's. There are a number of substitutes for these (2147 mainframe static memory cache chips are the best substitute, but are expensive; the MM5257 is another substitute.) The 1Kx4 chips were TMS4045's, and were also more commonly sold as 2114's (their Intel part number), but I think that the Heath boards used the 1Kx4 chips. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of jmacgraith at cox.net Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 8:35 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Cc: WVerish at aol.com Subject: Re: [sebhc] Re: Cassette software tapes for H-8 Wayne, Memory chips are available from resellers. My son got me 32K for my h8 a couple of years ago. I didn't ask him what he paid, but all he needed was the p/n of the chip and he had no problem procuring them. Jack ---- WVerish at aol.com wrote: > Does anyone know where I might get any of the tapes that were included with > the H-8 computer? Also I am looking for memory chips (or a source) so I can > populate my 16K memory board for the H-8. > > > Thanks much, > > Wayne Verish -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List