From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Sat Jun 3 14:07:16 2006 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 15:07:16 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H-17 Drives Message-ID: <4481DDE4.9010502@sc.rr.com> If anyone is interested in diskette drives for an H17, I purchased a TRS-80 from ebay. It has Tandon T100 diskette drives. I haven't had time to try them yet, but they look like they will work in the H17. This might be a good source of diskette drives if anyone is interested. I see a lot of TRS-80 on ebay. Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From sp11 at hotmail.com Sun Jun 4 01:43:00 2006 From: sp11 at hotmail.com (Steven Parker) Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 06:43:00 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] HDOS 2.0 listings In-Reply-To: <704e82240605182301xf8152c9l49f2f329e35b84da@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 06:43:00 GMT Walt sent me some of the HDOS 2.0 listing set to scan. I added them to the archives in the documents/software section. It was not a complete set, most notably missing HDOS itself and both overlays. But most everything else seems to be there. -- Steven -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From bill at elkcomm.com Sun Jun 4 07:28:05 2006 From: bill at elkcomm.com (William Elkins) Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 08:28:05 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H8-5 In-Reply-To: <44726C1F.3010904@sc.rr.com> References: <380-220065122222837218@mindspring.com> <447251F7.3040103@sc.rr.com> <44726C1F.3010904@sc.rr.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: Carroll Applying a 120hz pulse derived from your 4800 clock to the CTS or RTS on the PC serial port might put data into phase with your clock. (or at least close enough.) Bill On 5/22/06, Carroll Waddell wrote: > William Elkins wrote: > > While it is true the audio from a cassette player is not synced the > > waveform that was recorded on the cassette was. Bit transistions > > occured at zero crossing on the carriers. If your clock and pc uart > > are running independantly your bit transistions will rarely occur at > > zero crossing. At 1200 bps the available number of carrier cycles per > > bit of data is one or two depending on which state the data line is > > in. At 300 bps you get 4 cycles or 8 cycles and the phase relationship > > between the clock and the data is less important. > > > > Bill > > > > > >> At this point, all I'm trying to do is make the H8-5 think something > >> else is a cassette player. > >> I'm trying to feed the H8-5 AUDIO INPUT with tones just like the sound > >> coming from a cassette player. > >> The audio from an actual cassette is not sync'd to anything. The PLL on > >> the H8-5 creates the clock from the audio coming from the cassette > >> player. > >> I haven't started to try to create the WRITE half of the project yet. > >> I'm still just trying to make the H8 think I have an actual cassette > >> player with a tape to load in it. > >> Carroll > > > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > Thanks. I hadn't thought of that. > Carroll > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From wm65805 at hotmail.com Fri Jun 9 10:42:35 2006 From: wm65805 at hotmail.com (bill malcolm) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 10:42:35 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] cp/m Virtual files References: <200604150331.XAA01045@ss10.danlan.com> <44411F94.8D352D1F@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 15:43:14 +0000 HI: All --- Coming soon I will post files for Common.asm and docs for same Common creates a virual file access in any user area -- this is much like alias for the USER areas. I hope to finish the 8086 cp/m version later this month. You can also check out my web site http://www.applelinc-lisa/common-cpm80.html. bill .. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com Fri Jun 9 10:52:53 2006 From: RONALD.S.WEST at saic.com (West, Ronald S.) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 11:52:53 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] I'm late; I'm late... Message-ID: <58FCC1586AD7884BB367EA05255643BC108466@0015-its-exmb05.us.saic.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/plain rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Size: 1611 bytes Desc: not available URL: From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Fri Jun 9 14:26:17 2006 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 15:26:17 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] question Message-ID: <4489CB59.1040202@sc.rr.com> I've been getting email from sebhc at evocative.com What is that? Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From sp11 at hotmail.com Fri Jun 9 14:56:05 2006 From: sp11 at hotmail.com (Steven Parker) Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 19:56:05 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] question: evocative.com?? In-Reply-To: <4489CB59.1040202@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 19:56:05 GMT >I've been getting email from >sebhc at evocative.com And the emails are coming through with: >Reply-To: sebhc at evocative.com I changed this one by hand to go to the "regular" address. Has the sebhc mail been moved to the evocative.com server farm? Since the regular domain still works, can the reply default be changed to use it? -- Steven -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From billwilkinson at mindspring.com Fri Jun 9 16:10:37 2006 From: billwilkinson at mindspring.com (William Wilkinson) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 16:10:37 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] FW: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender Message-ID: <380-22006659211037687@mindspring.com> In addition to what I typed below, I found that if you reply to sebhc at evocative.com, it gets bounced. William Wilkinson billwilkinson at mindspring.com > [Original Message] > From: Mail Delivery System > To: > Date: 6/9/2006 3:43:27 PM > Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender > > This message was created automatically by mail delivery software. > > A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its > recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed: > > sebhc at evocative.com > SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO:: > host mx1.evocative.com [67.133.33.40]: 550 : > Recipient address rejected: 5.1.1 ... User unknown > > ------ This is a copy of the message, including all the headers. ------ > > Return-path: > Received: from [4.228.174.71] (helo=mindspring.com) > by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) > id 1FonpF-0006E4-R4; Fri, 09 Jun 2006 16:43:26 -0400 > Message-ID: <380-22006659204320812 at mindspring.com> > X-Priority: 3 > Reply-To: billwilkinson at mindspring.com > X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.116.0 (Windows) > From: "William Wilkinson" > To: sebhc at evocative.com > Subject: RE: [sebhc] question: evocative.com?? > Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 15:43:20 -0500 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > I'd noticed the other day that SEBHC messages were suddenly appearing in my > "suspect email" spam filter box instead of being passed on through. Adding > sebhc at evocative.com and sebhc-bounces at evocative.com to the white list seems > to have fixed the problem. > > The evocative web site seems to be a host for a number of businesses; is > sebhc.org one that was previously aliased to the "org" extension or > something--and then suddenly got dropped? > > I also noticed in the email headers that evocative is now using a firewall > called Barracuda that's assigning a code that has something to do with the > amount of spam content it perceives the message to have. Some of the > numbers look interesting, but I haven't taken the time yet to try to > interpret them. And if they do have some kind of meaning, why would *my* > email host (Earthlink) care? > > Ideas, anybody? > > --Bill > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Steven Parker > > To: > > Date: 6/9/2006 2:56:05 PM > > Subject: [sebhc] question: evocative.com?? > > > > >I've been getting email from > > >sebhc at evocative.com > > > > And the emails are coming through with: > > > > >Reply-To: sebhc at evocative.com > > > > I changed this one by hand to go to the "regular" address. Has the sebhc > > mail been moved to the evocative.com server farm? Since the regular > domain > > still works, can the reply default be changed to use it? > > > > -- Steven > > > > > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Fri Jun 9 18:28:32 2006 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 18:28:32 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] question: evocative.com?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001f01c68c1c$6c7aadf0$176fa8c0@obie> SEBHC is indeed hosted at evocative.com. I've inquired about the change to tech support and hope to hear back shortly. Thanks to the several alert listers who picked up this change. Jack > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at evocative.com > [mailto:sebhc-bounces at evocative.com] On Behalf Of Steven Parker > Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 2:56 PM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: [sebhc] question: evocative.com?? > > > >I've been getting email from > >sebhc at evocative.com > > And the emails are coming through with: > > >Reply-To: sebhc at evocative.com > > I changed this one by hand to go to the "regular" address. > Has the sebhc > mail been moved to the evocative.com server farm? Since the > regular domain > still works, can the reply default be changed to use it? > > -- Steven > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/359 - Release > Date: 6/8/2006 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/359 - Release Date: 6/8/2006 -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com Fri Jun 9 18:53:20 2006 From: patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com (Patrick/VCM SysOp) Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 16:53:20 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] test again (ignore again) Message-ID: <448A09F0.1060302@vintagecomputermarketplace.com> testing . .. ... -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com Fri Jun 9 18:50:50 2006 From: patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com (Patrick/VCM SysOp) Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 16:50:50 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] testing (please ignore) Message-ID: <448A095A.1020007@vintagecomputermarketplace.com> Testing 1 10 11... -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com Fri Jun 9 19:03:22 2006 From: patrick at vintagecomputermarketplace.com (Patrick/VCM SysOp) Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:03:22 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] SEBHC, Evocative, and me... Message-ID: <448A0C4A.908@vintagecomputermarketplace.com> Gents, A couple of days ago, we made a long-overdue forklift upgrade to sendmail on one of our servers, the one which happens to handle the SEBHC mail list. During that upgrade, I didn't notice that a default in sendmail's operation had changed, and I now need to specify a flag to keep it from rewriting certain addresses. That's been found and fixed. Sorry for any confusion this may have created. Evocative, if anybody cares to know, is my company and the happy host and supporter of both SEBHC and the Vintage Computer Marketplace. And although I now deal mostly with Intel, Linux, and "words" bigger than 16 bits, there's always an eight bit machine running on my desk of one kind or another. Patrick -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Fri Jun 9 19:16:56 2006 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 19:16:56 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] SEBHC, Evocative, and me... In-Reply-To: <448A0C4A.908@vintagecomputermarketplace.com> Message-ID: <000001c68c23$30119340$176fa8c0@obie> Thanks Patrick, for our providing a "Happy Home" for SEBHC, and for the quick turnaround ... Jack > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org > [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Patrick/VCM SysOp > Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 7:03 PM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: [sebhc] SEBHC, Evocative, and me... > > > Gents, > > A couple of days ago, we made a long-overdue forklift upgrade to > sendmail on one of our servers, the one which happens to handle the > SEBHC mail list. During that upgrade, I didn't notice that a > default in > sendmail's operation had changed, and I now need to specify a flag to > keep it from rewriting certain addresses. > > That's been found and fixed. Sorry for any confusion this > may have created. > > Evocative, if anybody cares to know, is my company and the happy host > and supporter of both SEBHC and the Vintage Computer > Marketplace. And > although I now deal mostly with Intel, Linux, and "words" > bigger than 16 > bits, there's always an eight bit machine running on my desk > of one kind > or another. > > Patrick > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/359 - Release > Date: 6/8/2006 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/359 - Release Date: 6/8/2006 -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dkelvey at hotmail.com Fri Jun 9 22:38:04 2006 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 20:38:04 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Ram chips In-Reply-To: <000001c68c23$30119340$176fa8c0@obie> Message-ID: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 03:38:04 GMT Hi I thought I'd mention a source of hard to get RAM chips. Many of the H8 RAM boards use 4Kx1 chips. There are some boards on Ebay with a bunch of 4kx1 parts on ebay. Check out item 8823305348. The board is still relatively cheap. I have no connection with this sale. Dwight -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sat Jun 10 09:46:01 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 10:46:01 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Ram chips In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005501c68c9c$9825aab0$6501a8c0@barry> I do not believe that these boards use the same chips as used in any Heathkit product. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of dwight elvey Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 11:38 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: [sebhc] Ram chips Hi I thought I'd mention a source of hard to get RAM chips. Many of the H8 RAM boards use 4Kx1 chips. There are some boards on Ebay with a bunch of 4kx1 parts on ebay. Check out item 8823305348. The board is still relatively cheap. I have no connection with this sale. Dwight -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dkelvey at hotmail.com Sat Jun 10 11:01:21 2006 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 09:01:21 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Ram chips In-Reply-To: <005501c68c9c$9825aab0$6501a8c0@barry> Message-ID: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 16:01:21 GMT Hi Sorry if I mislead any one. I thought the 5280's were compatable with the 6044 and 9044 chips used on the H8 boards. Please don't buy these without checking more. Dwight >From: "Barry Watzman" >Reply-To: sebhc at sebhc.org >To: >Subject: RE: [sebhc] Ram chips >Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 10:46:01 -0400 > >I do not believe that these boards use the same chips as used in any >Heathkit product. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >dwight elvey >Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 11:38 PM >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: [sebhc] Ram chips > > >Hi >I thought I'd mention a source of hard to get RAM >chips. Many of the H8 RAM boards use 4Kx1 chips. There >are some boards on Ebay with a bunch of 4kx1 parts >on ebay. Check out item 8823305348. The board is still >relatively cheap. >I have no connection with this sale. >Dwight > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sat Jun 10 11:22:01 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 12:22:01 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Ram chips In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005e01c68caa$01944120$6501a8c0@barry> The chips on the boards in the auction looked too wide to be the Heathkit chips. I'm judging this visually, but I'm pretty sure I'm correct. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of dwight elvey Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 12:01 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: RE: [sebhc] Ram chips Hi Sorry if I mislead any one. I thought the 5280's were compatable with the 6044 and 9044 chips used on the H8 boards. Please don't buy these without checking more. Dwight >From: "Barry Watzman" >Reply-To: sebhc at sebhc.org >To: >Subject: RE: [sebhc] Ram chips >Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 10:46:01 -0400 > >I do not believe that these boards use the same chips as used in any >Heathkit product. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >dwight elvey >Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 11:38 PM >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: [sebhc] Ram chips > > >Hi >I thought I'd mention a source of hard to get RAM >chips. Many of the H8 RAM boards use 4Kx1 chips. There >are some boards on Ebay with a bunch of 4kx1 parts >on ebay. Check out item 8823305348. The board is still >relatively cheap. >I have no connection with this sale. >Dwight > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dkelvey at hotmail.com Sat Jun 10 11:32:26 2006 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 09:32:26 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Ram chips In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 16:32:26 GMT Hi Barry You are correct, these are wrong. These are DRAMs I misread the information on this chip, thinking they were 4Kx1 static parts. I'm really sorry about that. I hope JoeM isn't one of our folks. Dwight >From: "dwight elvey" >Reply-To: sebhc at sebhc.org >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: RE: [sebhc] Ram chips >Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 09:01:21 -0700 > >Hi >Sorry if I mislead any one. I thought the 5280's were compatable with >the 6044 and 9044 chips used on the H8 boards. >Please don't buy these without checking more. >Dwight > > > >>From: "Barry Watzman" >>Reply-To: sebhc at sebhc.org >>To: >>Subject: RE: [sebhc] Ram chips >>Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 10:46:01 -0400 >> >>I do not believe that these boards use the same chips as used in any >>Heathkit product. >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf >>Of >>dwight elvey >>Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 11:38 PM >>To: sebhc at sebhc.org >>Subject: [sebhc] Ram chips >> >> >>Hi >>I thought I'd mention a source of hard to get RAM >>chips. Many of the H8 RAM boards use 4Kx1 chips. There >>are some boards on Ebay with a bunch of 4kx1 parts >>on ebay. Check out item 8823305348. The board is still >>relatively cheap. >>I have no connection with this sale. >>Dwight >> >> >>-- >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> >> >>-- >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Sat Jun 17 13:53:14 2006 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 14:53:14 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Diskette Drives Message-ID: <44944F9A.1000709@sc.rr.com> Does anyone know about diskette head alignment? I got some Tandon TM100 drives off EBAY. They are single sided and look like they should work, but diskettes written on the normal H17 won't read on the Tandon. Is there some different head alignment or something? Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From davidwallace2000 at comcast.net Sat Jun 17 14:41:29 2006 From: davidwallace2000 at comcast.net (davidwallace2000 at comcast.net) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 19:41:29 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] Diskette Drives Message-ID: <061720061941.13316.44945AE8000EE0A5000034042200737478CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 1934 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dkelvey at hotmail.com Sat Jun 17 16:37:38 2006 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 14:37:38 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Diskette Drives In-Reply-To: <061720061941.13316.44945AE8000EE0A5000034042200737478CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> Message-ID: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:37:38 GMT Hi The H8/89 normally only uses 35 tracks, even with a 40 track drive, for hard sectored. The controller has no write compensation, needed for the additional 5 tracks of a 40 track drive. He has somehting else not correct. It could be jumpers, dirty heads or broken drives. He should at least be able to read the directories. This doesn't require a 40 track drive. Carroll, You didn't state if you ar doing hard or soft sectored? Dwight >From: davidwallace2000 at comcast.net >Reply-To: sebhc at sebhc.org >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: Re: [sebhc] Diskette Drives >Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 19:41:29 +0000 > >It's possible that the TM100 drives are 35-track (TRS-80) instead of 40 >(H17). > >-------------- Original message -------------- >From: Carroll Waddell > > > Does anyone know about diskette head alignment? > > I got some Tandon TM100 drives off EBAY. They are single sided and look > > like they should work, but diskettes written on the normal H17 won't > > read on the Tandon. Is there some different head alignment or something? > > Carroll > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sat Jun 17 17:09:32 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:09:32 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Diskette Drives In-Reply-To: <44944F9A.1000709@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <003301c6925a$b68f89d0$6501a8c0@barry> The drives may be out of alignment, but the correct alignment for all 5.25" drives is the same. You can [theoretically] check it with a digital diagnostic disk, but to set it, you need an analog alignment disk and an oscilloscope. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Carroll Waddell Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 2:53 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: [sebhc] Diskette Drives Does anyone know about diskette head alignment? I got some Tandon TM100 drives off EBAY. They are single sided and look like they should work, but diskettes written on the normal H17 won't read on the Tandon. Is there some different head alignment or something? Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Sat Jun 17 17:07:33 2006 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 17:07:33 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Diskette Drives References: Message-ID: <44947D25.39A11EA1@earthlink.net> dwight elvey wrote: > The H8/89 normally only uses 35 tracks, even with a > 40 track drive, for hard sectored. No, you are mistaken. All Heath 5.25" drives were 40-track. So it is possible that those Tandons were 35 track; but I doubt it. I've never seen a Tandon 35-track drive, but it's possible that they may exist. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sat Jun 17 17:13:25 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:13:25 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Diskette Drives In-Reply-To: <061720061941.13316.44945AE8000EE0A5000034042200737478CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> Message-ID: <004101c6925b$4153fba0$6501a8c0@barry> First, no, all Tandon TM-100's are 40 track (the only 35 track drive made was the Shugart SA-400), and second, the alignment for the SA-400 (e.g. 35 track drives) was the same as for the 40 track drives. _____ From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of davidwallace2000 at comcast.net Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 3:41 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] Diskette Drives It's possible that the TM100 drives are 35-track (TRS-80) instead of 40 (H17). -------------- Original message -------------- From: Carroll Waddell > Does anyone know about diskette head alignment? > I got some Tandon TM100 drives off EBAY. They are single sided and look > like they should work, but diskettes written on the normal H17 won't > read on the Tandon. Is there some different head alignment or something? > Carroll > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sat Jun 17 17:14:17 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:14:17 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Diskette Drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004601c6925b$6073f850$6501a8c0@barry> I believe that is incorrect. I believe that 40 tracks are always used. Jumpers could be an issue. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of dwight elvey Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 5:38 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] Diskette Drives Hi The H8/89 normally only uses 35 tracks, even with a 40 track drive, for hard sectored. The controller has no write compensation, needed for the additional 5 tracks of a 40 track drive. He has somehting else not correct. It could be jumpers, dirty heads or broken drives. He should at least be able to read the directories. This doesn't require a 40 track drive. Carroll, You didn't state if you ar doing hard or soft sectored? Dwight >From: davidwallace2000 at comcast.net >Reply-To: sebhc at sebhc.org >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: Re: [sebhc] Diskette Drives >Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 19:41:29 +0000 > >It's possible that the TM100 drives are 35-track (TRS-80) instead of 40 >(H17). > >-------------- Original message -------------- >From: Carroll Waddell > > > Does anyone know about diskette head alignment? > > I got some Tandon TM100 drives off EBAY. They are single sided and look > > like they should work, but diskettes written on the normal H17 won't > > read on the Tandon. Is there some different head alignment or something? > > Carroll > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sat Jun 17 17:17:23 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:17:23 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Diskette Drives In-Reply-To: <44947D25.39A11EA1@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <004701c6925b$cf2b2bb0$6501a8c0@barry> They didn't exist. And, actually, most of the SA-400's (as far as I know the only 35-track drives) would do 40 tracks .... just send it more stepping pulses after the 35th track (the stepping mechanism, a wheel with a spiral groove in it, didn't end that abruptly). But alignment for 35 and 40 tracks drives was the same. Track 0 was in the same place, the track-to-track spacing was the same, there were just 5 more tracks on the center(inside) of the media. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 6:08 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] Diskette Drives dwight elvey wrote: > The H8/89 normally only uses 35 tracks, even with a > 40 track drive, for hard sectored. No, you are mistaken. All Heath 5.25" drives were 40-track. So it is possible that those Tandons were 35 track; but I doubt it. I've never seen a Tandon 35-track drive, but it's possible that they may exist. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dkelvey at hotmail.com Sat Jun 17 17:19:56 2006 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:19:56 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Diskette Drives In-Reply-To: <44947D25.39A11EA1@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:19:56 GMT Oops I don't know why I keep thinking that they had 35 track. I guess that was some other machine. As I get older, these things get mixed in my head. It is good to have Lee and Barry around to keep me in line. Dwight >From: Lee Hart > >dwight elvey wrote: > > The H8/89 normally only uses 35 tracks, even with a > > 40 track drive, for hard sectored. > >No, you are mistaken. All Heath 5.25" drives were 40-track. So it is >possible that those Tandons were 35 track; but I doubt it. I've never >seen a Tandon 35-track drive, but it's possible that they may exist. >-- >Ring the bells that still can ring >Forget the perfect offering >There is a crack in everything >That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen >-- >Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From davidwallace2000 at comcast.net Sat Jun 17 17:20:08 2006 From: davidwallace2000 at comcast.net (davidwallace2000 at comcast.net) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:20:08 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] Diskette Drives Message-ID: <061720062220.5543.449480180006083A000015A72205886442CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 4662 bytes Desc: not available URL: From davidwallace2000 at comcast.net Sat Jun 17 17:22:47 2006 From: davidwallace2000 at comcast.net (davidwallace2000 at comcast.net) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:22:47 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] Diskette Drives Message-ID: <061720062222.12747.449480B700011EA2000031CB2213575333CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 6396 bytes Desc: not available URL: From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Sat Jun 17 17:45:01 2006 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:45:01 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Diskette Drives In-Reply-To: <44944F9A.1000709@sc.rr.com> References: <44944F9A.1000709@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <449485ED.9080704@sc.rr.com> Carroll Waddell wrote: > Does anyone know about diskette head alignment? > I got some Tandon TM100 drives off EBAY. They are single sided and > look like they should work, but diskettes written on the normal H17 > won't read on the Tandon. Is there some different head alignment or > something? > Carroll > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > I've been playing with diskette drives all afternoon. First, I'm working with hard sector diskettes. The diskettes are new that Patrick Rigney got for us last year. I have 2 of the Siemens drives that Heath sold for the H17. They work fine. I also have a Shugart (some model) that also works fine. I bought a TRS-80 that had 2 full height Tandon TM100-1A drives. In the past, I've used drives from an IBM PC. These will work fine IF YOU CREATE THE DISKETTES ON THE PC DRIVE. Diskettes created on the Siemens drives cannot be read by an IBM PC drive and vice versa. At any rate, I've tried diskettes created in the Siemens Drives and the IBM drives on the Tandon. Neither Tandon drive will read any diskette I have. I haven't torn it open yet, but I bought a Kaypro Portable with 2 drives in it, but I think these are the Tandon drives also, but not sure. Of course, BOTH of the Tandon drives could be bad. I have 1 Siemens drive that smokes when power is applied to it. The motor control card is smoking. I'm going to strip it down to the bare PCB and rebuild it, but that will take time. Basically, I'm just trying to see what kind of diskette drives we can use in the H17. Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sat Jun 17 19:31:23 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 20:31:23 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Diskette Drives In-Reply-To: <449485ED.9080704@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <000901c6926e$874c4be0$6501a8c0@barry> Re: " These will work fine IF YOU CREATE THE DISKETTES ON THE PC DRIVE. Diskettes created on the Siemens drives cannot be read by an IBM PC drive and vice versa." That absolutely, positively should not be the case. Something is wrong if it is. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Carroll Waddell Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 6:45 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] Diskette Drives Carroll Waddell wrote: > Does anyone know about diskette head alignment? > I got some Tandon TM100 drives off EBAY. They are single sided and > look like they should work, but diskettes written on the normal H17 > won't read on the Tandon. Is there some different head alignment or > something? > Carroll > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > I've been playing with diskette drives all afternoon. First, I'm working with hard sector diskettes. The diskettes are new that Patrick Rigney got for us last year. I have 2 of the Siemens drives that Heath sold for the H17. They work fine. I also have a Shugart (some model) that also works fine. I bought a TRS-80 that had 2 full height Tandon TM100-1A drives. In the past, I've used drives from an IBM PC. These will work fine IF YOU CREATE THE DISKETTES ON THE PC DRIVE. Diskettes created on the Siemens drives cannot be read by an IBM PC drive and vice versa. At any rate, I've tried diskettes created in the Siemens Drives and the IBM drives on the Tandon. Neither Tandon drive will read any diskette I have. I haven't torn it open yet, but I bought a Kaypro Portable with 2 drives in it, but I think these are the Tandon drives also, but not sure. Of course, BOTH of the Tandon drives could be bad. I have 1 Siemens drive that smokes when power is applied to it. The motor control card is smoking. I'm going to strip it down to the bare PCB and rebuild it, but that will take time. Basically, I'm just trying to see what kind of diskette drives we can use in the H17. Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Sat Jun 17 20:32:36 2006 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:32:36 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Diskette Drives In-Reply-To: <000901c6926e$874c4be0$6501a8c0@barry> References: <000901c6926e$874c4be0$6501a8c0@barry> Message-ID: <4494AD34.1060709@sc.rr.com> Barry Watzman wrote: >Re: " These will work fine IF YOU CREATE THE DISKETTES ON THE PC DRIVE. >Diskettes created on the Siemens drives cannot be read by an IBM PC drive >and vice versa." > >That absolutely, positively should not be the case. Something is wrong if >it is. > >-----Original Message----- >From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >Carroll Waddell >Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 6:45 PM >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: Re: [sebhc] Diskette Drives > >Carroll Waddell wrote: > > > >>Does anyone know about diskette head alignment? >>I got some Tandon TM100 drives off EBAY. They are single sided and >>look like they should work, but diskettes written on the normal H17 >>won't read on the Tandon. Is there some different head alignment or >>something? >>Carroll >>-- >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> >> >> >I've been playing with diskette drives all afternoon. First, I'm >working with hard sector diskettes. The diskettes are new that Patrick >Rigney got for us last year. >I have 2 of the Siemens drives that Heath sold for the H17. They work >fine. I also have a Shugart (some model) that also works fine. I bought >a TRS-80 that had 2 full height Tandon TM100-1A drives. >In the past, I've used drives from an IBM PC. These will work fine IF >YOU CREATE THE DISKETTES ON THE PC DRIVE. Diskettes created on the >Siemens drives cannot be read by an IBM PC drive and vice versa. >At any rate, I've tried diskettes created in the Siemens Drives and the >IBM drives on the Tandon. Neither Tandon drive will read any diskette I >have. >I haven't torn it open yet, but I bought a Kaypro Portable with 2 drives >in it, but I think these are the Tandon drives also, but not sure. >Of course, BOTH of the Tandon drives could be bad. > >I have 1 Siemens drive that smokes when power is applied to it. The >motor control card is smoking. I'm going to strip it down to the bare >PCB and rebuild it, but that will take time. > >Basically, I'm just trying to see what kind of diskette drives we can >use in the H17. >Carroll >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > I was just thinking that maybe the IBM PC is writing with the wrong head, ie, wrong side. My H8 has the extended configuration option, which the Siemens drives will ignore. Maybe the PC drive is writing on the top side rather than the bottom side which is the normal single sided side. Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dave06a at dunfield.com Sat Jun 17 21:32:01 2006 From: dave06a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:32:01 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Diskette Drives In-Reply-To: <003301c6925a$b68f89d0$6501a8c0@barry> References: <44944F9A.1000709@sc.rr.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <200606180134.k5I1Y9L3007170@mail4.magma.ca> > Does anyone know about diskette head alignment? > I got some Tandon TM100 drives off EBAY. They are single sided and look > like they should work, but diskettes written on the normal H17 won't > read on the Tandon. Is there some different head alignment or something? > The drives may be out of alignment, but the correct alignment for all 5.25" > drives is the same. You can [theoretically] check it with a digital > diagnostic disk, but to set it, you need an analog alignment disk and an > oscilloscope. Agreed that to do it correctly you need an alignment disk and a scope, however If you have a "known good formatted disk" (ie: one formatted in the drive you most want to be compatible with :-) you can do a passable job of aligning the drive using ImageDisk's Align/Test function. NOTE: To do this, you would need to install the drive in a PC running DOS or Win9X. I've just added a section to the manual with a bit more information on doing this - not posted yet, but I can send it to you if you want it (should have it posted sometime next week). TM100's should be standard tracks - if they are single sided, they are most likely 48tpi 40 track drives - there are 96 and 100 tpi TM-100's, however I believe these were all double-sided. Most TM-100 have the drive model inside the door release lever - look up at the front of the lever from below when it is in the raised position. A 48TPI drive should read "TM-100-2", at least for the double sided version - I think my single-sided TM-100's are still called -2's but I haven't checked. Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dkelvey at hotmail.com Sat Jun 17 20:50:39 2006 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:50:39 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Diskette Drives In-Reply-To: <4494AD34.1060709@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 01:50:39 GMT >From: Carroll Waddell ---snip--- >> >> >I was just thinking that maybe the IBM PC is writing with the wrong head, >ie, wrong side. My H8 has the extended configuration option, which the >Siemens drives will ignore. Maybe the PC drive is writing on the top side >rather than the bottom side which is the normal single sided side. >Carroll >-- Hi This is not likely. You didn't make it clear if when on the PC, it could both write and read while on the same machine? If it can, your looking at an alignment issue. If it can't, there is something else wrong with the drive. Dwight -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Sat Jun 17 21:07:07 2006 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:07:07 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Diskette Drives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4494B54B.1040408@sc.rr.com> dwight elvey wrote: > > > >> From: Carroll Waddell > > ---snip--- > >>> >>> >> I was just thinking that maybe the IBM PC is writing with the wrong >> head, ie, wrong side. My H8 has the extended configuration option, >> which the Siemens drives will ignore. Maybe the PC drive is writing >> on the top side rather than the bottom side which is the normal >> single sided side. >> Carroll >> -- > > > Hi > This is not likely. > You didn't make it clear if when on the PC, it could both write and read > while on the same machine? > If it can, your looking at an alignment issue. If it can't, there is > something > else wrong with the drive. > Dwight > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > Dwight, I haven't tried to use the Tandons on an IBM PC. I might try that just to see if the drives are really good or bad. I've only connected them to the H8. CEW -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sat Jun 17 22:37:29 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 23:37:29 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Diskette Drives In-Reply-To: <4494B54B.1040408@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <001b01c69288$86f77650$6501a8c0@barry> Keep in mind that ANY drive, no matter how out of alignment, can read disks that were formatted on that same drive. The whole point of alignment is to make disks interchangeable between drives. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Carroll Waddell Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 10:07 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] Diskette Drives dwight elvey wrote: > > > >> From: Carroll Waddell > > ---snip--- > >>> >>> >> I was just thinking that maybe the IBM PC is writing with the wrong >> head, ie, wrong side. My H8 has the extended configuration option, >> which the Siemens drives will ignore. Maybe the PC drive is writing >> on the top side rather than the bottom side which is the normal >> single sided side. >> Carroll >> -- > > > Hi > This is not likely. > You didn't make it clear if when on the PC, it could both write and read > while on the same machine? > If it can, your looking at an alignment issue. If it can't, there is > something > else wrong with the drive. > Dwight > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > Dwight, I haven't tried to use the Tandons on an IBM PC. I might try that just to see if the drives are really good or bad. I've only connected them to the H8. CEW -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Sat Jun 17 22:47:32 2006 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:47:32 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Diskette Drives References: <000901c6926e$874c4be0$6501a8c0@barry> Message-ID: <4494CCD4.A9762E5@earthlink.net> Barry Watzman wrote: > Re: " These will work fine IF YOU CREATE THE DISKETTES ON THE PC DRIVE. > Diskettes created on the Siemens drives cannot be read by an IBM PC drive > and vice versa." > > That absolutely, positively should not be the case. Something is wrong if > it is. I agree. I have installed PC 5.25" drives in H8s and H89 many times, and it always worked (eventually). The main challenge is that PCs jumper their drives differently than the Heathkits. The big difference is that PCs jumper all drives to be DS2; they cut and twist the cable to allow two drives on one cable with identical Drive Select jumpering. Heathkits cable all drives in parallel, and use the drive's four Drive Select jumpers (DS0-DS3 or DS1-DS4, depending on the drive). The second difference is that the PCs don't use the head load solenoid (if the drive is so equipped; Tandons don't have it). Heath does use it; so you have to jumper the drive to load the head when selected. The jumper is labelled something like "HS". The final difference is that PCs only turn on the motor of the one drive that is selected. The PC software then has to wait for that drive to come up to speed. Heathkits start the motors in all drives together, so they don't have to wait for the drive to come up to speed. So, if the PC drive's motor is slow to come up to speed, it will cause problems in a Heathkit (BDOS errors in CP/M etc.). Thus, you have to jumper the PC drive so its motor is controlled by the Motor line, not by the Select line. I've found that my H89s can use just about *any* drive, once I've figured out the jumpers for it! -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dkelvey at hotmail.com Sat Jun 17 23:19:10 2006 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:19:10 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Diskette Drives In-Reply-To: <001b01c69288$86f77650$6501a8c0@barry> Message-ID: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 04:19:10 GMT >From: "Barry Watzman" > >Keep in mind that ANY drive, no matter how out of alignment, can read disks >that were formatted on that same drive. The whole point of alignment is to >make disks interchangeable between drives. > Hi That is what I'm trying to determine. Dwight > >-----Original Message----- >From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >Carroll Waddell >Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 10:07 PM >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: Re: [sebhc] Diskette Drives > >dwight elvey wrote: > > > > > > > > >> From: Carroll Waddell > > > > ---snip--- > > > >>> > >>> > >> I was just thinking that maybe the IBM PC is writing with the wrong > >> head, ie, wrong side. My H8 has the extended configuration option, > >> which the Siemens drives will ignore. Maybe the PC drive is writing > >> on the top side rather than the bottom side which is the normal > >> single sided side. > >> Carroll > >> -- > > > > > > Hi > > This is not likely. > > You didn't make it clear if when on the PC, it could both write and read > > while on the same machine? > > If it can, your looking at an alignment issue. If it can't, there is > > something > > else wrong with the drive. > > Dwight > > > > > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > >Dwight, >I haven't tried to use the Tandons on an IBM PC. I might try that just >to see if the drives are really good or bad. >I've only connected them to the H8. >CEW >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Sat Jun 17 23:42:56 2006 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 00:42:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [sebhc] Diskette Drives Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <200606180442.AAA07284@ss10.danlan.com> Note that "newer" single sided TM100 drives use the same electronics as the double sided versions. In particular, they do not ignore the side select line. If it is driven (or floats) to the wrong state they are happy to select the non-existent head and appear inoperative. Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sun Jun 18 08:51:19 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 09:51:19 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Diskette Drives In-Reply-To: <4494CCD4.A9762E5@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <005001c692de$474ad780$6501a8c0@barry> Very few 5.25" drives have head load solenoids. Normally, the head is always loaded when the diskette is in the drive and the door is closed. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 11:48 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] Diskette Drives The second difference is that the PCs don't use the head load solenoid (if the drive is so equipped; Tandons don't have it). Heath does use it; so you have to jumper the drive to load the head when selected. The jumper is labelled something like "HS". -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From wm65805 at hotmail.com Mon Jun 19 12:53:03 2006 From: wm65805 at hotmail.com (bill malcolm) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:53:03 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Diskette Drives References: <44944F9A.1000709@sc.rr.com> <449485ED.9080704@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:54:05 +0000 Yes it could be alignment --- First you must be sure that the drive is any good. Connect it as drive #2 and try and format media in it. If this fails drive could be bad -- I have had several of these drive go bad TEAC's are much better. If you were able to format media in it as drive 2 - then it needs track 0 adjustment. 1. Easy without alignment disk. connect drive as drive 0. *** have the drive external to machine to adjust. 2. find track zero adj ( loose the screw slightly) install boot floppy -- try reboot and then adjust and reboot -- repeat as need -- you could attack a scope to the data and determine if data is there also as an aid. bill .. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carroll Waddell" To: Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 5:45 PM Subject: Re: [sebhc] Diskette Drives > Carroll Waddell wrote: > > > Does anyone know about diskette head alignment? > > I got some Tandon TM100 drives off EBAY. They are single sided and > > look like they should work, but diskettes written on the normal H17 > > won't read on the Tandon. Is there some different head alignment or > > something? > > Carroll > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > I've been playing with diskette drives all afternoon. First, I'm > working with hard sector diskettes. The diskettes are new that Patrick > Rigney got for us last year. > I have 2 of the Siemens drives that Heath sold for the H17. They work > fine. I also have a Shugart (some model) that also works fine. I bought > a TRS-80 that had 2 full height Tandon TM100-1A drives. > In the past, I've used drives from an IBM PC. These will work fine IF > YOU CREATE THE DISKETTES ON THE PC DRIVE. Diskettes created on the > Siemens drives cannot be read by an IBM PC drive and vice versa. > At any rate, I've tried diskettes created in the Siemens Drives and the > IBM drives on the Tandon. Neither Tandon drive will read any diskette I > have. > I haven't torn it open yet, but I bought a Kaypro Portable with 2 drives > in it, but I think these are the Tandon drives also, but not sure. > Of course, BOTH of the Tandon drives could be bad. > > I have 1 Siemens drive that smokes when power is applied to it. The > motor control card is smoking. I'm going to strip it down to the bare > PCB and rebuild it, but that will take time. > > Basically, I'm just trying to see what kind of diskette drives we can > use in the H17. > Carroll > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Mon Jun 19 14:56:56 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 15:56:56 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Diskette Drives In-Reply-To: Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <006b01c693da$850e2c50$6601a8c0@barry> Track 0 adjustment and radial alignment are two different things. Radial alignment insures that when the drive thinks that the head is over a track (ANY track), it is indeed over a track, and not between tracks, or not "directly" over a track (perhaps enough to function, but if you write to a diskette that way, you can cause real problems). Track 0 alignment insures that the drive is over the track that it thinks it is over; that when the drive thinks it's over track 27, it really is over track 27, and not track 24, 25, 26 or 28, 29 or 30. Your post suggests an incomplete understanding of these two distinct adjustments, what they do and how they interact. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of bill malcolm Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 1:53 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] Diskette Drives Yes it could be alignment --- First you must be sure that the drive is any good. Connect it as drive #2 and try and format media in it. If this fails drive could be bad -- I have had several of these drive go bad TEAC's are much better. If you were able to format media in it as drive 2 - then it needs track 0 adjustment. 1. Easy without alignment disk. connect drive as drive 0. *** have the drive external to machine to adjust. 2. find track zero adj ( loose the screw slightly) install boot floppy -- try reboot and then adjust and reboot -- repeat as need -- you could attack a scope to the data and determine if data is there also as an aid. bill .. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carroll Waddell" To: Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 5:45 PM Subject: Re: [sebhc] Diskette Drives > Carroll Waddell wrote: > > > Does anyone know about diskette head alignment? > > I got some Tandon TM100 drives off EBAY. They are single sided and > > look like they should work, but diskettes written on the normal H17 > > won't read on the Tandon. Is there some different head alignment or > > something? > > Carroll > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > I've been playing with diskette drives all afternoon. First, I'm > working with hard sector diskettes. The diskettes are new that Patrick > Rigney got for us last year. > I have 2 of the Siemens drives that Heath sold for the H17. They work > fine. I also have a Shugart (some model) that also works fine. I bought > a TRS-80 that had 2 full height Tandon TM100-1A drives. > In the past, I've used drives from an IBM PC. These will work fine IF > YOU CREATE THE DISKETTES ON THE PC DRIVE. Diskettes created on the > Siemens drives cannot be read by an IBM PC drive and vice versa. > At any rate, I've tried diskettes created in the Siemens Drives and the > IBM drives on the Tandon. Neither Tandon drive will read any diskette I > have. > I haven't torn it open yet, but I bought a Kaypro Portable with 2 drives > in it, but I think these are the Tandon drives also, but not sure. > Of course, BOTH of the Tandon drives could be bad. > > I have 1 Siemens drive that smokes when power is applied to it. The > motor control card is smoking. I'm going to strip it down to the bare > PCB and rebuild it, but that will take time. > > Basically, I'm just trying to see what kind of diskette drives we can > use in the H17. > Carroll > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Mon Jun 19 15:05:36 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 16:05:36 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Diskette Drives In-Reply-To: <006b01c693da$850e2c50$6601a8c0@barry> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <007201c693db$bad9bab0$6601a8c0@barry> Change that "directly" to "partly" -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Barry Watzman Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 3:57 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: RE: [sebhc] Diskette Drives Track 0 adjustment and radial alignment are two different things. Radial alignment insures that when the drive thinks that the head is over a track (ANY track), it is indeed over a track, and not between tracks, or not "directly" over a track (perhaps enough to function, but if you write to a diskette that way, you can cause real problems). Track 0 alignment insures that the drive is over the track that it thinks it is over; that when the drive thinks it's over track 27, it really is over track 27, and not track 24, 25, 26 or 28, 29 or 30. Your post suggests an incomplete understanding of these two distinct adjustments, what they do and how they interact. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of bill malcolm Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 1:53 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] Diskette Drives Yes it could be alignment --- First you must be sure that the drive is any good. Connect it as drive #2 and try and format media in it. If this fails drive could be bad -- I have had several of these drive go bad TEAC's are much better. If you were able to format media in it as drive 2 - then it needs track 0 adjustment. 1. Easy without alignment disk. connect drive as drive 0. *** have the drive external to machine to adjust. 2. find track zero adj ( loose the screw slightly) install boot floppy -- try reboot and then adjust and reboot -- repeat as need -- you could attack a scope to the data and determine if data is there also as an aid. bill .. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carroll Waddell" To: Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 5:45 PM Subject: Re: [sebhc] Diskette Drives > Carroll Waddell wrote: > > > Does anyone know about diskette head alignment? > > I got some Tandon TM100 drives off EBAY. They are single sided and > > look like they should work, but diskettes written on the normal H17 > > won't read on the Tandon. Is there some different head alignment or > > something? > > Carroll > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > I've been playing with diskette drives all afternoon. First, I'm > working with hard sector diskettes. The diskettes are new that Patrick > Rigney got for us last year. > I have 2 of the Siemens drives that Heath sold for the H17. They work > fine. I also have a Shugart (some model) that also works fine. I bought > a TRS-80 that had 2 full height Tandon TM100-1A drives. > In the past, I've used drives from an IBM PC. These will work fine IF > YOU CREATE THE DISKETTES ON THE PC DRIVE. Diskettes created on the > Siemens drives cannot be read by an IBM PC drive and vice versa. > At any rate, I've tried diskettes created in the Siemens Drives and the > IBM drives on the Tandon. Neither Tandon drive will read any diskette I > have. > I haven't torn it open yet, but I bought a Kaypro Portable with 2 drives > in it, but I think these are the Tandon drives also, but not sure. > Of course, BOTH of the Tandon drives could be bad. > > I have 1 Siemens drive that smokes when power is applied to it. The > motor control card is smoking. I'm going to strip it down to the bare > PCB and rebuild it, but that will take time. > > Basically, I'm just trying to see what kind of diskette drives we can > use in the H17. > Carroll > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Tue Jun 20 01:09:12 2006 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 01:09:12 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Available: Epson MX80 Message-ID: <704e82240606192309x76eb955cgad31278f04313c39@mail.gmail.com> If anyone is interested in an Epson MX80 dot-matrix printer, let me know. I received one with some other equipment. Unfortunately, I have no room for the printer. It looks interesting - appears complete in box. Includes a manual for the printer and one for a 'Graftrax 80' option which provided graphic printing on the MX80. I have not tested the printer at all, although I could do some basic testing if someone is interested. Free + shipping cost(Fairly heavy, not sure what shipping would come to) Mark -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From wm65805 at hotmail.com Tue Jun 20 10:42:13 2006 From: wm65805 at hotmail.com (bill malcolm) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 10:42:13 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] PBS | I, Cringely . April 20, 2006 - Native Speaker Message-ID: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 15:43:33 +0000 A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 1012 bytes Desc: not available URL: From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Tue Jun 20 15:56:40 2006 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:56:40 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] DRIVES RESOLVED Message-ID: <44986108.6010703@sc.rr.com> EUREKA! Since I started this diskette drive question and answer session, let me tell you what I have found out. As I said, I bought a TRS-80 computer on EBAY to see if I could use the diskette drives in an H17. I could not get them to work. Someone suggested that I try them in another computer. They worked fine on an IBM PC, proving that the drives themselves were good. BUT, I JUST BOOTED WITH ONE OF THE TANDON DRIVES. The drives in the TRS-80 were TANDON TM100-1A. These are single sided drives, however they can write to both sides of the diskette with a double head. The circuit board can handle the Side Select signal from the controller. But with only one head, if you try to select HEAD 1, there is nothing there to read. The Heathkit H8 Extended Configuration Option adds double headed operation, although Heath never implemented double sided operation. The Extended Configuration Option circuit has the circuitry to do head select. It is wired (Heath recommended) to pin 18 of the H8 bus. The H17 controller picks up the signal from pin 18 and sends it out on pin 32 of the diskette drive cable. Normally, this signal is held high (Logic 1). To select side 1 of the diskette drive, the signal is pulled low. Head 1 writes on the top side of the diskette, where head 0, and/or single sided operation writes on the bottom side of the diskette. Now, on the H8 CPU card, pin 18 is normally jumpered to ground because pin 18 was not used in the original H8 configuration. So, the CPU had pin 18 held low, which had head 1 selected at all times. This is why diskettes written on an IBM drive could not be read on the Siemens drives, and was also why the Tandon drives would not work. Now, they all work the same. The short of it is this: if you need diskette drives for the H17, you can probably find some old TRS-80 computers on ebay. Get the ones that are the full height drives. They will work in the H17. Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Tue Jun 20 18:20:48 2006 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:20:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [sebhc] DRIVES RESOLVED Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <200606202320.TAA19584@ss10.danlan.com> |BUT, I JUST BOOTED WITH ONE OF THE TANDON DRIVES. The drives in the |TRS-80 were TANDON TM100-1A. These are single sided drives, however they |can write to both sides of the diskette with a double head. The circuit |board can handle the Side Select signal from the controller. But with |only one head, if you try to select HEAD 1, there is nothing there to read. I could have sworn I mentioned this a few days ago... :) Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Tue Jun 20 20:01:52 2006 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 21:01:52 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] DRIVES RESOLVED In-Reply-To: <200606202320.TAA19584@ss10.danlan.com> References: <200606202320.TAA19584@ss10.danlan.com> Message-ID: <44989A80.4020404@sc.rr.com> Dan Lanciani wrote: >|BUT, I JUST BOOTED WITH ONE OF THE TANDON DRIVES. The drives in the >|TRS-80 were TANDON TM100-1A. These are single sided drives, however they >|can write to both sides of the diskette with a double head. The circuit >|board can handle the Side Select signal from the controller. But with >|only one head, if you try to select HEAD 1, there is nothing there to read. > >I could have sworn I mentioned this a few days ago... :) > > Dan Lanciani > ddl at danlan.*com >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > Yep. But this thing called 'work' keeps getting in the way of play time. CW -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Mon Jun 26 19:28:43 2006 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 20:28:43 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Motor control Message-ID: <44A07BBB.7090002@sc.rr.com> Does anyone know how a diskette motor speed control works? It appears to have some kind of feed back tach in the motor to indicate the motor speed. I'm working on a Siemens drive motor control card. CEW -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Tue Jun 27 11:20:03 2006 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 09:20:03 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Motor control References: <44A07BBB.7090002@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <44A15AB3.1E17@earthlink.net> Carroll Waddell wrote: > Does anyone know how a diskette motor speed control works? It > appears to have some kind of feed back tach in the motor to > indicate the motor speed. I'm working on a Siemens drive motor > control card. Heath provided a manual for the Siemens FDD-100 drive which includes a schematic. I've got one around here somewhere. As I recall, it is an analog circuit that senses speed with a tachometer built into the motor. A pot sets the speed. I'll try to find it and take a look at the circuit. -- Ring the bells that you can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_ at _earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Tue Jun 27 20:12:18 2006 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 21:12:18 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Motor control In-Reply-To: <44A15AB3.1E17@earthlink.net> References: <44A07BBB.7090002@sc.rr.com> <44A15AB3.1E17@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <44A1D772.5070307@sc.rr.com> Lee Hart wrote: >Carroll Waddell wrote: > > >>Does anyone know how a diskette motor speed control works? It >>appears to have some kind of feed back tach in the motor to >>indicate the motor speed. I'm working on a Siemens drive motor >>control card. >> >> > >Heath provided a manual for the Siemens FDD-100 drive which includes a >schematic. I've got one around here somewhere. As I recall, it is an >analog circuit that senses speed with a tachometer built into the motor. >A pot sets the speed. I'll try to find it and take a look at the >circuit. > > Thanks Lee. I have the schematic, but I was just wondering how the circuit works. It seems that the 555 timer functions as a monostable multiv. It appears that the pulse width is about 1.67 msec. At 300 RPM, that would be about 1/2 of a revolution. The original problem was that the motor control card had a shorted cap which smoked L1, a 10uh choke. I removed all the parts from the board, and checked all the parts. I replaced the bad parts, the IC's and the transistors. Now the motor runs, but I can't adjust the speed. Of course, I could have created a problem when I reassembled the board. I was just curious about what the motor control card tick. CEW -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Wed Jun 28 10:52:56 2006 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 08:52:56 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Motor control References: <44A07BBB.7090002@sc.rr.com> <44A15AB3.1E17@earthlink.net> <44A1D772.5070307@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <44A2A5D8.1B9F@earthlink.net> Carroll Waddell wrote: > Thanks Lee. I have the schematic, but I was just wondering how > the circuit works. It seems that the 555 timer functions as a > monostable multiv. It appears that the pulse width is about > 1.67 msec. At 300 RPM, that would be about 1/2 of a revolution. Not having the circuit to look at, my guess would be that the 555 drives a transistor, which drives the motor. The 555 switches on/off at some duty cycle. The duty cycle produces an average voltage to the motor; for example, 25% on-time = 12v x 0.25 = 3v, 50% on-time = 12v x 0.5 = 6v, etc. Thus, it controls motor speed by controlling the duty cycle of the 555. The tachometer voltage would be rectified and filtered to produce a DC voltage proportional to speed. This voltage then controls the duty cycle of the 555 pulse-width modulator. The circuit would be arranged so if the motor speeds up, the tach voltage rises, which reduces the on-time of the 555. -- Ring the bells that you can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_ at _earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List