From dkelvey at hotmail.com Wed May 3 00:57:17 2006 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 22:57:17 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] helping a Classic Computer person In-Reply-To: <442F5EE0.B068B3B5@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Wed, 03 May 2006 05:57:17 GMT Hi On the other mail list, a fellow is looking to see where the wire goes that provides the extra address on the 16K card in a H89. I don't have access, right now, to the machine I have with one of these. Can anyone take a quick look to see where the wire is suppose to be connected? Thanks Dwight -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Wed May 3 13:02:52 2006 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 13:02:52 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] helping a Classic Computer person In-Reply-To: References: <442F5EE0.B068B3B5@earthlink.net> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <704e82240605031102r7a525683nd764e7226c91ac8b@mail.gmail.com> I should be able to look at mine tonight and provide you the information. Mark On 5/3/06, dwight elvey wrote: > Hi > On the other mail list, a fellow is looking to see where the wire > goes that provides the extra address on the 16K card in a H89. > I don't have access, right now, to the machine I have with one of these. > Can anyone take a quick look to see where the wire is suppose to > be connected? > Thanks > Dwight > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Wed May 3 14:32:35 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 15:32:35 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] helping a Classic Computer person In-Reply-To: <704e82240605031102r7a525683nd764e7226c91ac8b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00aa01c66ee8$54b69e00$6501a8c0@barry> >From the configuration guide (which I wrote): "A jumper is required between the center pin of JJ503 and Pin 17 of P509, or P4 of WH-88-16 (which connects to Pin 17 of P509)." On some models the jumper was factory installed by soldering on the back of the CPU board. Barry Watzman Watzman at neo.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Mark Garlanger Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 2:03 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] helping a Classic Computer person I should be able to look at mine tonight and provide you the information. Mark On 5/3/06, dwight elvey wrote: > Hi > On the other mail list, a fellow is looking to see where the wire > goes that provides the extra address on the 16K card in a H89. > I don't have access, right now, to the machine I have with one of these. > Can anyone take a quick look to see where the wire is suppose to > be connected? > Thanks > Dwight > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dkelvey at hotmail.com Wed May 3 23:19:08 2006 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 21:19:08 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] helping a Classic Computer person In-Reply-To: <00aa01c66ee8$54b69e00$6501a8c0@barry> Message-ID: Thu, 04 May 2006 04:19:08 GMT Thanks Barry, I passed it on. I also told him he should joint sebhc ;) Dwight >From: "Barry Watzman" > >From the configuration guide (which I wrote): > >"A jumper is required between the center pin of JJ503 and Pin 17 of P509, >or >P4 of WH-88-16 (which connects to Pin 17 of P509)." > >On some models the jumper was factory installed by soldering on the back of >the CPU board. > >Barry Watzman >Watzman at neo.rr.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >Mark Garlanger >Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 2:03 PM >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: Re: [sebhc] helping a Classic Computer person > >I should be able to look at mine tonight and provide you the information. > >Mark > >On 5/3/06, dwight elvey wrote: > > Hi > > On the other mail list, a fellow is looking to see where the wire > > goes that provides the extra address on the 16K card in a H89. > > I don't have access, right now, to the machine I have with one of these. > > Can anyone take a quick look to see where the wire is suppose to > > be connected? > > Thanks > > Dwight > > > > > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Mon May 8 05:50:37 2006 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 06:50:37 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Drives Message-ID: <445F227D.9020705@sc.rr.com> Does anyone know of any other computer that used the same diskette drives as the Heathkit H17? I'm trying to find some old diskette drives to complete my 3 drive diskette system. Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Mon May 8 06:26:49 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 07:26:49 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Drives In-Reply-To: <445F227D.9020705@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <003301c67292$4c642120$6601a8c0@barry> The Siemens / Wangco drives were also used by Cromemco. But it may be easier to replace the existing drives with 3 other matching drives. Basically, with proper jumpering, any 5.25" 48tpi drive can be used (e.g. you can use 360K "PC" drives). -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Carroll Waddell Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 6:51 AM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: [sebhc] Drives Does anyone know of any other computer that used the same diskette drives as the Heathkit H17? I'm trying to find some old diskette drives to complete my 3 drive diskette system. Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Mon May 8 06:43:14 2006 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 07:43:14 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Drives In-Reply-To: <003301c67292$4c642120$6601a8c0@barry> References: <003301c67292$4c642120$6601a8c0@barry> Message-ID: <445F2ED2.2020903@sc.rr.com> Barry Watzman wrote: > The Siemens / Wangco drives were also used by Cromemco. > > But it may be easier to replace the existing drives with 3 other matching > drives. Basically, with proper jumpering, any 5.25" 48tpi drive can be used > (e.g. you can use 360K "PC" drives). > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of > Carroll Waddell > Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 6:51 AM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: [sebhc] Drives > > Does anyone know of any other computer that used the same diskette > drives as the Heathkit H17? > I'm trying to find some old diskette drives to complete my 3 drive > diskette system. > Carroll > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > Yes. I currently have 3 IBM PC drives running in the system. But I really was looking to restore it back to the original Heath (Siemens) drives if I could find any. I've noticed several TRS80 Model III on Ebay. They show 2 full height drives, but I don't know what kind they are. Thanks for the response. Carroll BTW - I'm currently working on a PC Program called H8WARE that emulates the H19 terminal, a serial printer, a File to File transfer system between H8 and PC, and tape emulation. I have part of it working now. Also, I'm writing a PC program BIN2HEX to create INTEL HEX format files that can be transferred to H8 CP/M PIP. All the BIN2HEX programs that I have found on the net won't work with the CP/M LOAD command. More later. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dkelvey at hotmail.com Mon May 8 09:17:45 2006 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 07:17:45 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Drives In-Reply-To: <445F2ED2.2020903@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: Mon, 08 May 2006 14:17:45 GMT >From: Carroll Waddell > ----snip--- >Also, I'm writing a PC program BIN2HEX to create INTEL HEX format files >that can be transferred to H8 CP/M PIP. All the BIN2HEX programs that I >have found on the net won't work with the CP/M LOAD command. >More later. Hi What seems to be the problem with your BIN2HEX programs. I have one that I wrote myself and it has worked fine for me but I've next tried it with the load command. It would be trivial for me to modify it for different end of line characters or change the number of bytes per line. I'll dig it out tonight if you let me know what I need to change. Dwight -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Mon May 8 11:23:40 2006 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 12:23:40 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Drives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <445F708C.9070903@sc.rr.com> dwight elvey wrote: > > > >> From: Carroll Waddell >> > ----snip--- >> Also, I'm writing a PC program BIN2HEX to create INTEL HEX format >> files that can be transferred to H8 CP/M PIP. All the BIN2HEX >> programs that I have found on the net won't work with the CP/M LOAD >> command. >> More later. > > Hi > What seems to be the problem with your BIN2HEX programs. I have > one that I wrote myself and it has worked fine for me but I've next > tried it with the load command. It would be trivial for me to modify > it for different end of line characters or change the number of > bytes per line. > I'll dig it out tonight if you let me know what I need to change. > Dwight > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > Thanks Dwight, but the BIN2HEX I wrote seems to work just fine. The CP/M load command can convert the HEX file to a BINARY (COM) file for CP/M to execute. I tried it this morning. The BIN2HEX programs I downloaded from the net produce a 2 byte checksum, and CPM must only handle a single byte checksum. Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Tue May 16 01:34:33 2006 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 01:34:33 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Shelf life of floppies Message-ID: <704e82240605152334k5a087f71s17b70348728f4b8c@mail.gmail.com> Does anyone know what the shelf life of floppies should be? I was able to aquired about 80 HD 5.25" disks and 40 DD 5.25" disks that were still sealed in their boxes.The disks had to be in the boxes for over 15 years, since a few of the boxes had a promo which expired in 1991. I am hoping they are all still good (I haven't been able to test them yet, since I still don't have a working soft-sectored controller, but a system with one should be arriving shortly.) The disks are 3M with a 'Lifetime' warranty. Amazing, the toll free number on the back of the disk jacket is still operation, but instead of 3M, it said 'Imation data storage customer service'. Searching around 3M and imation's sites, it appears that Imation is a spin-off of 3M. Anyone have any experience between the reliability of 3.5" floppies and 5.25" ones? The 3M 5.25" disks are a better brand and have the lifetime warranty, but they appear a little older than a batch of 100 generic "Office Centre" DD 3.5" disks I got off of ebay. Those look like they are from 1994 or later. For my system, I may be able to get two external drive cases working, one with 2 - 5.25" DS 96tpi drives, and another with 1 of those and a 3.5" DD drive. This would allow me to swap those with the H89 as needed and I should be able back-up all the software on both 3.5" and 5.25" disks. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From davidwallace2000 at comcast.net Tue May 16 06:03:28 2006 From: davidwallace2000 at comcast.net (davidwallace2000 at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 11:03:28 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] Shelf life of floppies Message-ID: <051620061103.4447.4469B18000052E320000115F2207000953CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 4381 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Watzman at neo.rr.com Tue May 16 07:44:24 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 08:44:24 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Shelf life of floppies In-Reply-To: <704e82240605152334k5a087f71s17b70348728f4b8c@mail.gmail.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <001c01c678e6$762957f0$6701a8c0@barry> Shouldn't be a problem unless they were stored at high temps or extreme humidity. I have hundreds of 8" floppy diskettes from the 1970's that are still good. My "read success rate" with these is greater than 98%. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Mark Garlanger Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 2:35 AM To: sebhc Subject: [sebhc] Shelf life of floppies Does anyone know what the shelf life of floppies should be? I was able to aquired about 80 HD 5.25" disks and 40 DD 5.25" disks that were still sealed in their boxes.The disks had to be in the boxes for over 15 years, since a few of the boxes had a promo which expired in 1991. I am hoping they are all still good (I haven't been able to test them yet, since I still don't have a working soft-sectored controller, but a system with one should be arriving shortly.) The disks are 3M with a 'Lifetime' warranty. Amazing, the toll free number on the back of the disk jacket is still operation, but instead of 3M, it said 'Imation data storage customer service'. Searching around 3M and imation's sites, it appears that Imation is a spin-off of 3M. Anyone have any experience between the reliability of 3.5" floppies and 5.25" ones? The 3M 5.25" disks are a better brand and have the lifetime warranty, but they appear a little older than a batch of 100 generic "Office Centre" DD 3.5" disks I got off of ebay. Those look like they are from 1994 or later. For my system, I may be able to get two external drive cases working, one with 2 - 5.25" DS 96tpi drives, and another with 1 of those and a 3.5" DD drive. This would allow me to swap those with the H89 as needed and I should be able back-up all the software on both 3.5" and 5.25" disks. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From billwilkinson at mindspring.com Tue May 16 08:37:53 2006 From: billwilkinson at mindspring.com (William Wilkinson) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 08:37:53 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Shelf life of floppies Message-ID: <380-220065216133753921@mindspring.com> Same here with my 5-1/4" disks--both hard-sectored and soft. In general, I've found that they seem to survive better than many of the 3.5" floppies that I'd purchased less than 10 years ago. --Bill > [Original Message] > From: Barry Watzman > To: > Date: 5/16/2006 7:53:14 AM > Subject: RE: [sebhc] Shelf life of floppies > > Shouldn't be a problem unless they were stored at high temps or extreme > humidity. I have hundreds of 8" floppy diskettes from the 1970's that are > still good. My "read success rate" with these is greater than 98%. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of > Mark Garlanger > Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 2:35 AM > To: sebhc > Subject: [sebhc] Shelf life of floppies > > Does anyone know what the shelf life of floppies should be? I was able > to aquired about 80 HD 5.25" disks and 40 DD 5.25" disks that were > still sealed in their boxes.The disks had to be in the boxes for over > 15 years, since a few of the boxes had a promo which expired in 1991. > I am hoping they are all still good (I haven't been able to test them > yet, since I still don't have a working soft-sectored controller, but > a system with one should be arriving shortly.) The disks are 3M with a > 'Lifetime' warranty. Amazing, the toll free number on the back of the > disk jacket is still operation, but instead of 3M, it said 'Imation > data storage customer service'. Searching around 3M and imation's > sites, it appears that Imation is a spin-off of 3M. > > Anyone have any experience between the reliability of 3.5" floppies > and 5.25" ones? The 3M 5.25" disks are a better brand and have the > lifetime warranty, but they appear a little older than a batch of 100 > generic "Office Centre" DD 3.5" disks I got off of ebay. Those look > like they are from 1994 or later. > > For my system, I may be able to get two external drive cases working, > one with 2 - 5.25" DS 96tpi drives, and another with 1 of those and a > 3.5" DD drive. This would allow me to swap those with the H89 as > needed and I should be able back-up all the software on both 3.5" and > 5.25" disks. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From bill at armchairarcade.com Tue May 16 09:23:51 2006 From: bill at armchairarcade.com (Bill Loguidice) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 10:23:51 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Shelf life of floppies In-Reply-To: <380-220065216133753921@mindspring.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <00eb01c678f4$5ccd0050$f6b4400a@EAST.VIS.COM> I have to agree with that. Even data cassette tapes from the late 70's/early 80's in my collection are still readable. There are always the gloom and doomers with all kinds of media, including CD's and DVD's today, but it seems even media that should be extremely fragile like disks and cassettes can hold up well with even decent storage. I have most of my collection in a reasonably climate controlled room these days, but for a good 8 years or so an unfortunate portion was in my parent's garage of all places. It all held up thank goodness even under those conditions. With that said, I definitely look to back up whatever I don't feel like I can restore from an archived image. I even bought a pro dual cassette deck so I can start to copy my more obscure data media, like with one of the Interact computers I have. ====================================== Bill Loguidice, Managing Director Armchair Arcade, Inc. (A PC Magazine Top 100 Website) ====================================== http://www.armchairarcade.com > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org > [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of William Wilkinson > Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 9:38 AM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: RE: [sebhc] Shelf life of floppies > > Same here with my 5-1/4" disks--both hard-sectored and soft. > In general, > I've found that they seem to survive better than many of the > 3.5" floppies > that I'd purchased less than 10 years ago. > > --Bill > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Barry Watzman > > To: > > Date: 5/16/2006 7:53:14 AM > > Subject: RE: [sebhc] Shelf life of floppies -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From marc429 at bellsouth.net Thu May 18 17:08:10 2006 From: marc429 at bellsouth.net (Marc Williams) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 18:08:10 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H/Z-100 For Sale Message-ID: <001701c67ac7$8ce13d90$0101a8c0@Marc1> If this is a duplicate posting, please accept my apologies. I think I sent the last one from the wrong email account. Greetings Folks, I have a Heathkit H/Z-100 for sale if anyone is interested. It's configured with dual floppy drives and a blazing 128K of RAM. (Hey, I went all out!) I don't really know what it's worth, so I'm going to ask $50.00, plus you pay the shipping (from Atlanta, GA). It has not been turned on in several years, but was working flawlessly when I packed it up. It's in the original Heathkit box and the Zenith 12" monitor is also in its original box. The following software is included, all with manuals: - Z-DOS - Microsoft Z-Basic - Condor FMS - Microsoft Multiplan - MTERM (modem software) - Computer Chef - Peachtree Software, PeachText 5000 Other documentation: - Assembly and Installation Manuals - Z-100 User Manual - Z-100 Technical Manual (with Boot ROM Source Listings) - "How to Use: Zenith/Heath Computers," by Hal Glatzer (S-A Design Books) [probably a collector's item] - Some other miscellaneous documents and a CPU reference guide If anyone is interested, please let me know and I'll be glad to give you other details if you like. Best Regards, Marc Williams 770-442-5070 home 404-372-7475 cell marcwil at bellsouth.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Thu May 18 19:45:50 2006 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 20:45:50 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H/Z-100 For Sale In-Reply-To: <001701c67ac7$8ce13d90$0101a8c0@Marc1> References: <001701c67ac7$8ce13d90$0101a8c0@Marc1> Message-ID: <446D153E.7050104@sc.rr.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 12484 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Watzman at neo.rr.com Thu May 18 20:07:25 2006 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 21:07:25 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H/Z-100 For Sale In-Reply-To: <446D153E.7050104@sc.rr.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.17 HTML_ATTR_UNIQUE BODY: HTML appears to have random attributes in tags Message-ID: <010601c67ae0$97770320$6a01a8c0@barry> Since he says "and the Zenith 12" monitor is also in its original box", it's presumably a low-profile Z110 series model. _____ From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Carroll Waddell Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 8:46 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] H/Z-100 For Sale Marc Williams wrote: If this is a duplicate posting, please accept my apologies. I think I sent the last one from the wrong email account. Greetings Folks, I have a Heathkit H/Z-100 for sale if anyone is interested. It's configured with dual floppy drives and a blazing 128K of RAM. (Hey, I went all out!) I don't really know what it's worth, so I'm going to ask $50.00, plus you pay the shipping (from Atlanta, GA). It has not been turned on in several years, but was working flawlessly when I packed it up. It's in the original Heathkit box and the Zenith 12" monitor is also in its original box. The following software is included, all with manuals: - Z-DOS - Microsoft Z-Basic - Condor FMS - Microsoft Multiplan - MTERM (modem software) - Computer Chef - Peachtree Software, PeachText 5000 Other documentation: - Assembly and Installation Manuals - Z-100 User Manual - Z-100 Technical Manual (with Boot ROM Source Listings) - "How to Use: Zenith/Heath Computers," by Hal Glatzer (S-A Design Books) [probably a collector's item] - Some other miscellaneous documents and a CPU reference guide If anyone is interested, please let me know and I'll be glad to give you other details if you like. Best Regards, Marc Williams 770-442-5070 home 404-372-7475 cell marcwil at bellsouth.net Was this the model with the seperate monitor or the all-in-one model? Carroll -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garlanger at gmail.com Fri May 19 01:01:58 2006 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 01:01:58 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] HUG Software list Message-ID: <704e82240605182301xf8152c9l49f2f329e35b84da@mail.gmail.com> Does anyone have a complete list of the HUG software library? There is a pdf in one of the HUG directories, but it looks like just a list of what is currently on the site. A complete list would allow us to figure out what disks are still missing. In a batch of floppies that I received, there was 10 HUG disks that are not in the library: 885-1032 - Disk V H8 Misc Software 885-1052 - Morsecode - H8 Disk 885-1075A - HDOS Support Package Misc Software 885-1075B - HDOS Support Package Misc Software 885-1228 - CP/M Fast Action Games 885-1229 - CP/M XMET Robot and ET-3400 Cross Assembler 885-1230 - Keymap 885-1237-37 - CP/M Utilities H/Z89 H/Z100 885-1249-37 - CP/M MAGBASE 885-8012 - MAPLE wp Modem Appls Effector (CP/M) I don't currently have the cable and setup to create images of these disks, but I'm planning to do that soon and will be able to upload the images. It looks like I will be getting another batch of disks in mid-June, hopefully it'll have more disks that are not in the library. Mark -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Mon May 22 11:33:00 2006 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 12:33:00 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H8-5 Message-ID: <4471E7BC.3060501@sc.rr.com> Was anyone in the group in on the development of the H8-5. I'm trying to build an interface that will connect to the serial port of a PC and then emulate 2 tape recorders, then connect these to the 2 phono ports on the H8-5 so that data can be sent/received between the H8-5 and the PC. What I've done so far LOOKS like it should work. But it doesn't Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From davidwallace2000 at comcast.net Mon May 22 14:14:16 2006 From: davidwallace2000 at comcast.net (davidwallace2000 at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 19:14:16 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] H8-5 Message-ID: <052220061914.17129.44720D88000089C0000042E92209229927CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 3345 bytes Desc: not available URL: From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Mon May 22 16:36:58 2006 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 17:36:58 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H8-5 In-Reply-To: <052220061914.17129.44720D88000089C0000042E92209229927CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> References: <052220061914.17129.44720D88000089C0000042E92209229927CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> Message-ID: <44722EFA.9000300@sc.rr.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 6895 bytes Desc: not available URL: From billwilkinson at mindspring.com Mon May 22 17:28:37 2006 From: billwilkinson at mindspring.com (William Wilkinson) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 17:28:37 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H8-5 Message-ID: <380-220065122222837218@mindspring.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 8297 bytes Desc: not available URL: From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Mon May 22 18:07:57 2006 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 19:07:57 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H8-5 In-Reply-To: <380-220065122222837218@mindspring.com> References: <380-220065122222837218@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <4472444D.3050106@sc.rr.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 9795 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bill at elkcomm.com Mon May 22 18:24:32 2006 From: bill at elkcomm.com (William Elkins) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 19:24:32 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H8-5 In-Reply-To: <380-220065122222837218@mindspring.com> References: <380-220065122222837218@mindspring.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: Carroll This is a guess! On the H8-5 card the clock for the serial uart and the 4800hz clock for the modulator were from the same source. Sounds like the PC serial port is not in phase with your 4800hz clock. As a test, I think you can change the data rate to 300 baud on the H8-5 and you PC and it would be more likely to work. Bill Elkins > But what I want to do is to connect the serial port on my PC to an FSK > modulator to create the 1200 Hz and 2400 Hz audio tones that can be fed into > the H8-5 tape input jack. The device should convert the serial data to audio > tones for the H8-5 and they should be identical to the tones from an actual > tape. > I built up an FSK modulator that is just like the one on the H8-5 board. I > feed a 4800 Hz square wave to 2 J-K flip flops (74LS131 I think). At any > rate I am using the same circuit that Heath put on the H8-5 card. I am > watching the audio on my scope, and it looks identical to the wave shown on > the Heath waveform drawings. > > Only 1 time in my trials did it even start to load. The rest of the time it > does nothing. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Mon May 22 19:06:15 2006 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 20:06:15 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H8-5 In-Reply-To: References: <380-220065122222837218@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <447251F7.3040103@sc.rr.com> William Elkins wrote: > Carroll > > This is a guess! > > On the H8-5 card the clock for the serial uart and the 4800hz clock > for the modulator were from the same source. Sounds like the PC serial > port is not in phase with your 4800hz clock. As a test, I think you > can change the data rate to 300 baud on the H8-5 and you PC and it > would be more likely to work. > > Bill Elkins > >> But what I want to do is to connect the serial port on my PC to an FSK >> modulator to create the 1200 Hz and 2400 Hz audio tones that can be >> fed into >> the H8-5 tape input jack. The device should convert the serial data >> to audio >> tones for the H8-5 and they should be identical to the tones from an >> actual >> tape. >> I built up an FSK modulator that is just like the one on the H8-5 >> board. I >> feed a 4800 Hz square wave to 2 J-K flip flops (74LS131 I think). At any >> rate I am using the same circuit that Heath put on the H8-5 card. I am >> watching the audio on my scope, and it looks identical to the wave >> shown on >> the Heath waveform drawings. >> >> Only 1 time in my trials did it even start to load. The rest of the >> time it >> does nothing. > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > At this point, all I'm trying to do is make the H8-5 think something else is a cassette player. I'm trying to feed the H8-5 AUDIO INPUT with tones just like the sound coming from a cassette player. The audio from an actual cassette is not sync'd to anything. The PLL on the H8-5 creates the clock from the audio coming from the cassette player. I haven't started to try to create the WRITE half of the project yet. I'm still just trying to make the H8 think I have an actual cassette player with a tape to load in it. Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From bill at elkcomm.com Mon May 22 20:45:36 2006 From: bill at elkcomm.com (William Elkins) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 21:45:36 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H8-5 In-Reply-To: <447251F7.3040103@sc.rr.com> References: <380-220065122222837218@mindspring.com> <447251F7.3040103@sc.rr.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: While it is true the audio from a cassette player is not synced the waveform that was recorded on the cassette was. Bit transistions occured at zero crossing on the carriers. If your clock and pc uart are running independantly your bit transistions will rarely occur at zero crossing. At 1200 bps the available number of carrier cycles per bit of data is one or two depending on which state the data line is in. At 300 bps you get 4 cycles or 8 cycles and the phase relationship between the clock and the data is less important. Bill > At this point, all I'm trying to do is make the H8-5 think something > else is a cassette player. > I'm trying to feed the H8-5 AUDIO INPUT with tones just like the sound > coming from a cassette player. > The audio from an actual cassette is not sync'd to anything. The PLL on > the H8-5 creates the clock from the audio coming from the cassette player. > I haven't started to try to create the WRITE half of the project yet. > I'm still just trying to make the H8 think I have an actual cassette > player with a tape to load in it. > Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Mon May 22 20:57:51 2006 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 21:57:51 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H8-5 In-Reply-To: References: <380-220065122222837218@mindspring.com> <447251F7.3040103@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <44726C1F.3010904@sc.rr.com> William Elkins wrote: > While it is true the audio from a cassette player is not synced the > waveform that was recorded on the cassette was. Bit transistions > occured at zero crossing on the carriers. If your clock and pc uart > are running independantly your bit transistions will rarely occur at > zero crossing. At 1200 bps the available number of carrier cycles per > bit of data is one or two depending on which state the data line is > in. At 300 bps you get 4 cycles or 8 cycles and the phase relationship > between the clock and the data is less important. > > Bill > > >> At this point, all I'm trying to do is make the H8-5 think something >> else is a cassette player. >> I'm trying to feed the H8-5 AUDIO INPUT with tones just like the sound >> coming from a cassette player. >> The audio from an actual cassette is not sync'd to anything. The PLL on >> the H8-5 creates the clock from the audio coming from the cassette >> player. >> I haven't started to try to create the WRITE half of the project yet. >> I'm still just trying to make the H8 think I have an actual cassette >> player with a tape to load in it. >> Carroll > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > Thanks. I hadn't thought of that. Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dkelvey at hotmail.com Mon May 22 21:47:55 2006 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 19:47:55 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H8-5 In-Reply-To: <447251F7.3040103@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: Tue, 23 May 2006 02:47:55 GMT >From: Carroll Waddell > ---snip--- > >At this point, all I'm trying to do is make the H8-5 think something else >is a cassette player. >I'm trying to feed the H8-5 AUDIO INPUT with tones just like the sound >coming from a cassette player. >The audio from an actual cassette is not sync'd to anything. The PLL on the >H8-5 creates the clock from the audio coming from the cassette player. >I haven't started to try to create the WRITE half of the project yet. I'm >still just trying to make the H8 think I have an actual cassette player >with a tape to load in it. >Carroll Hi Carroll One other thing to try is that the complete system with tape recorder included assumes some rolloff is needed to send to the tape recorder. If you look at the output of the H8-5 should see a resistor/capacitor filter. Your circuit should match this before sending data to the input of the H8-5. The H8-5 is expecting to compensate for this filter. How many cycles of tone are used for the input? I have a Poly88 tape input that is sensitive to the polarity of the audio coming in. You might look at inverting the data as well. One last thing. You might check that it still works with a real cassette. It just might be that it has died. Dwight -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Mon May 22 22:04:30 2006 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 23:04:30 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H8-5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44727BBE.1070301@sc.rr.com> dwight elvey wrote: > > > >> From: Carroll Waddell >> > ---snip--- >> >> At this point, all I'm trying to do is make the H8-5 think something >> else is a cassette player. >> I'm trying to feed the H8-5 AUDIO INPUT with tones just like the >> sound coming from a cassette player. >> The audio from an actual cassette is not sync'd to anything. The PLL >> on the H8-5 creates the clock from the audio coming from the cassette >> player. >> I haven't started to try to create the WRITE half of the project yet. >> I'm still just trying to make the H8 think I have an actual cassette >> player with a tape to load in it. >> Carroll > > Hi Carroll > One other thing to try is that the complete system with tape recorder > included assumes some rolloff is needed to send to the tape recorder. > If you look at the output of the H8-5 should see a resistor/capacitor > filter. Your circuit should match this before sending data to the input > of the H8-5. The H8-5 is expecting to compensate for this filter. > How many cycles of tone are used for the input? I have a Poly88 > tape input that is sensitive to the polarity of the audio coming in. > You might look at inverting the data as well. > One last thing. You might check that it still works with a real cassette. > It just might be that it has died. > Dwight > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > It is possible that the signal I'm feeding to the H8-5 isn't a pure sine wave. The output from the H8-5 card that normally gets recorded to tape comes from the RC network output of the card. This isn't a pure sine wave. By the time the tape recorder records it and plays it back, it is very much closer to a sine wave. I think I'm going to record a real tape output and my device output into a PC so that I can examine the waveforms in detail. Maybe I'll see some difference. Bill Elkins suggested that the H8-5 card only changes frequency at the zero crossing point. That's why I want to look at the waveforms. Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List