From garlanger at gmail.com Sat Feb 3 16:30:36 2007 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 16:30:36 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] A Galactic Experience In-Reply-To: <000701c745be$4e49ca30$c62efea9@toshibauser> References: <45B1894B.9070304@sc.rr.com> <003501c73c44$b359fbd0$6501a8c0@ueocore> <000701c745be$4e49ca30$c62efea9@toshibauser> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <704e82240702031430j7597b066j2298430cd6e1ebad@mail.gmail.com> I had played it too, way back when. I had that one and "A Remarkable Experience", also by Hoyle & Hoyle. In an old Remark (issue 29, June 82), there is a full page ad by Hoyle and Hoyle describing those two games along with a new one "A Physical Experience" that would be available in July. If you find any of them, please upload it to the archives. Mark On 1/31/07, tg wrote: > Id like to play that 'A Galactic Experience' by Hoyle & Hoyle again. I > never figured out how to launch the space ship but i got the pilot from the > starlight lounge sobered then there was that picrat the pirate to look out > for if you go in the wrong room. I loved that old text aventure. I havn't > played it for almost 20 years when i did have an H89. > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Sat Feb 3 18:29:37 2007 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 18:29:37 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] A Galactic Experience In-Reply-To: <704e82240702031430j7597b066j2298430cd6e1ebad@mail.gmail.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <000001c747f3$8da08200$176fa8c0@obie> As I recall, Hoyle & Hoyle have been the only software authors contacted so far who have refused to allow their software to be archived and shared online. Sorry I don't recall the details or the specific game but I'd appreciate a reminder if the person who contacted them is reads this. The policy of the SEBHC archive has always been to remove anything if the original author requests us to do so; in the absence of a statement from the Hoyles to the contrary, please do not upload any of their material into the archive. If you have contact info and/or a release statement, please let me know as I would very much like to include this material if they allow. Thanks, Jack > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org > [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Mark Garlanger > Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 4:31 PM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: Re: [sebhc] A Galactic Experience > > > I had played it too, way back when. I had that one and "A > Remarkable Experience", also by Hoyle & Hoyle. In an old > Remark (issue 29, June 82), there is a full page ad by Hoyle > and Hoyle describing those two games along with a new one "A > Physical Experience" that would be available in July. If you > find any of them, please upload it to the archives. > > Mark > > On 1/31/07, tg wrote: > > Id like to play that 'A Galactic Experience' by Hoyle & > Hoyle again. > > I never figured out how to launch the space ship but i got > the pilot > > from the starlight lounge sobered then there was that picrat the > > pirate to look out for if you go in the wrong room. I > loved that old > > text aventure. I havn't played it for almost 20 years when > i did have > > an H89. > > > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.21/665 - Release > Date: 2/2/2007 11:39 PM > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.21/665 - Release Date: 2/2/2007 11:39 PM -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Sun Feb 4 15:15:47 2007 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 16:15:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: [sebhc] A Galactic Experience Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <200702042115.QAA18846@ss10.danlan.com> |I had played it too, way back when. I had that one and "A Remarkable |Experience", also by Hoyle & Hoyle. In an old Remark (issue 29, June |82), there is a full page ad by Hoyle and Hoyle describing those two |games along with a new one "A Physical Experience" that would be |available in July. If you find any of them, please upload it to the |archives. I have an original distribution of A Remarkable Experience which I will upload if the permissions issue is ever resolved. As far as I can recall, this is not a very good game. It's basically Adventure with more tediously repetitive puzzles and little added creativity... Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Sun Feb 4 18:07:50 2007 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 18:07:50 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] A Galactic Experience In-Reply-To: <000001c747f3$8da08200$176fa8c0@obie> References: <704e82240702031430j7597b066j2298430cd6e1ebad@mail.gmail.com> <000001c747f3$8da08200$176fa8c0@obie> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <704e82240702041607o3275cec8w7aeb792e764fa7c5@mail.gmail.com> Oops, wasn't aware of that. I searched my outlook folder for 'hoyle' and didn't find anything. Maybe I hadn't subscribed to the list when it was sent. Is the maillist archived? Does anyone have the contact information for Hoyle & Hoyle? A google search yielded no luck. Mark On 2/3/07, Jack Rubin wrote: > As I recall, Hoyle & Hoyle have been the only software authors contacted > so far who have refused to allow their software to be archived and > shared online. Sorry I don't recall the details or the specific game but > I'd appreciate a reminder if the person who contacted them is reads > this. > > The policy of the SEBHC archive has always been to remove anything if > the original author requests us to do so; in the absence of a statement > from the Hoyles to the contrary, please do not upload any of their > material into the archive. > > If you have contact info and/or a release statement, please let me know > as I would very much like to include this material if they allow. > > Thanks, > Jack > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org > > [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Mark Garlanger > > Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 4:31 PM > > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > > Subject: Re: [sebhc] A Galactic Experience > > > > > > I had played it too, way back when. I had that one and "A > > Remarkable Experience", also by Hoyle & Hoyle. In an old > > Remark (issue 29, June 82), there is a full page ad by Hoyle > > and Hoyle describing those two games along with a new one "A > > Physical Experience" that would be available in July. If you > > find any of them, please upload it to the archives. > > > > Mark > > > > On 1/31/07, tg wrote: > > > Id like to play that 'A Galactic Experience' by Hoyle & > > Hoyle again. > > > I never figured out how to launch the space ship but i got > > the pilot > > > from the starlight lounge sobered then there was that picrat the > > > pirate to look out for if you go in the wrong room. I > > loved that old > > > text aventure. I havn't played it for almost 20 years when > > i did have > > > an H89. > > > > > > -- > > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.21/665 - Release > > Date: 2/2/2007 11:39 PM > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.21/665 - Release Date: > 2/2/2007 11:39 PM > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Sun Feb 4 21:23:26 2007 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 21:23:26 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Status of HUG's Remarks. Message-ID: <704e82240702041923v3094604ehcb7be4358c9bd02@mail.gmail.com> Any know what is allowed with REMark magazines? I plan to scan the issues I have and can upload them to the archives if that is not a problem. Mark -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sun Feb 4 22:00:35 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 23:00:35 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Status of HUG's Remarks. In-Reply-To: <704e82240702041923v3094604ehcb7be4358c9bd02@mail.gmail.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <001501c748da$30f12950$6500a8c0@barry> Well, there are lots of Heathkit manuals online and no one has objected; Remark is even "less copyrighted" than those. I'm not even sure that they WERE copyrighted, at all (and at one time HUG reported to me), but Hug was a subsidiary of Heathkit which was a subsidiary of Zenith Electronics Corporation, and NONE of those entities still exists. Now someone may in fact own the copyright, technically (if there is a copyright), but if no one has objected to the Heath product manuals, I can't imagine anyone objecting to the post of Remark issues. Barry Watzman -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Mark Garlanger Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 22:23 PM To: sebhc Subject: [sebhc] Status of HUG's Remarks. Any know what is allowed with REMark magazines? I plan to scan the issues I have and can upload them to the archives if that is not a problem. Mark -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Mon Feb 5 00:01:04 2007 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 00:01:04 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Status of HUG's Remarks. In-Reply-To: <001501c748da$30f12950$6500a8c0@barry> References: <704e82240702041923v3094604ehcb7be4358c9bd02@mail.gmail.com> <001501c748da$30f12950$6500a8c0@barry> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <704e82240702042201l2e7486eeqc199b35c6734b74d@mail.gmail.com> Sounds good, I'm not sure how fast I'll be able to get through my collection, I have just over 50 issues. Does anyone know the status of Sextant or HSCOOP? Were there any other periodicals for the Heathkits? Unfortunately, except of the Remark issues, I only have a single issue of Sextant. Thanks, Mark On 2/4/07, Barry Watzman wrote: > Well, there are lots of Heathkit manuals online and no one has objected; > Remark is even "less copyrighted" than those. I'm not even sure that they > WERE copyrighted, at all (and at one time HUG reported to me), but Hug was a > subsidiary of Heathkit which was a subsidiary of Zenith Electronics > Corporation, and NONE of those entities still exists. Now someone may in > fact own the copyright, technically (if there is a copyright), but if no one > has objected to the Heath product manuals, I can't imagine anyone objecting > to the post of Remark issues. > > Barry Watzman > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of > Mark Garlanger > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 22:23 PM > To: sebhc > Subject: [sebhc] Status of HUG's Remarks. > > Any know what is allowed with REMark magazines? I plan to scan the > issues I have and can upload them to the archives if that is not a > problem. > > Mark > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Mon Feb 5 07:13:29 2007 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 07:13:29 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Status of HUG's Remarks. In-Reply-To: <704e82240702042201l2e7486eeqc199b35c6734b74d@mail.gmail.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <000001c74927$6e1ff9d0$176fa8c0@obie> When we started SEBHC it was with exactly the same observation that Barry made - while there is a continuing Heathkit corporate entity, they seem to be making no effort to preserve their copyrights. Manuals and software are found all over the net and no-one at Heath _seems_ to care. That is also the reason that the SEBHC archives are "members only" - we want to be clear that we are interested in archiving material for hobbyist use and have no commercial interest in copying or distributing this material. I haven't been in touch with Charles Floto, the publisher of Sextant, for several years but I assume (hope) that he is alive and well. To the best of my knowledge, he still lives in the Washington, DC area. I'll follow up with him regarding archiving copies of the Sextant if people are interested. Speaking for myself, scanning copies of magazines for the archive is a very low priorty at the moment. Too little time, too much stuff to do. The editor/publisher of HSCOOP died several years ago. I've tried to contact his family unsuccessfully several times and would have no problem hosting scans of the publication, again with the clear understanding that the material would be removed immediately if the present copyright owner objected. Jack > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org > [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Mark Garlanger > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 12:01 AM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: Re: [sebhc] Status of HUG's Remarks. > > > Sounds good, I'm not sure how fast I'll be able to get > through my collection, I have just over 50 issues. Does > anyone know the status of Sextant or HSCOOP? Were there any > other periodicals for the Heathkits? Unfortunately, except of > the Remark issues, I only have a single issue of Sextant. > > Thanks, > Mark > > On 2/4/07, Barry Watzman wrote: > > Well, there are lots of Heathkit manuals online and no one has > > objected; Remark is even "less copyrighted" than those. > I'm not even > > sure that they WERE copyrighted, at all (and at one time > HUG reported > > to me), but Hug was a subsidiary of Heathkit which was a > subsidiary of > > Zenith Electronics Corporation, and NONE of those entities still > > exists. Now someone may in fact own the copyright, technically (if > > there is a copyright), but if no one has objected to the > Heath product > > manuals, I can't imagine anyone objecting to the post of Remark > > issues. > > > > Barry Watzman > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On > > Behalf Of Mark Garlanger > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 22:23 PM > > To: sebhc > > Subject: [sebhc] Status of HUG's Remarks. > > > > Any know what is allowed with REMark magazines? I plan to scan the > > issues I have and can upload them to the archives if that is not a > > problem. > > > > Mark > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.25/669 - Release > Date: 2/4/2007 9:58 PM > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.25/669 - Release Date: 2/4/2007 9:58 PM -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Mon Feb 5 07:25:35 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 08:25:35 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Status of HUG's Remarks. In-Reply-To: <704e82240702042201l2e7486eeqc199b35c6734b74d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001201c74929$1e94bf20$6500a8c0@barry> Charlie Floto (anyone know what happened to him?) published BUSS, a newsletter, and Sextant, a magazine. Henry Fale published H-Scoop; I believe that Henry passed away about a decade ago (if anyone can confirm that, please feel free to do so ... I was told this at one time when I tried to reach him in the 1990's). I have many issues of Remark, Sextant and BUSS, and a few issues of H-Scoop, but I don't know exactly where they are (they are in the basement, but that doesn't narrow it down as much as one might expect). Scanning this stuff is very time consuming, since it has to be done by hand unless you cut the documents apart into letter-size pages. Barry Watzman Watzman at neo.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Mark Garlanger Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 1:01 AM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] Status of HUG's Remarks. Sounds good, I'm not sure how fast I'll be able to get through my collection, I have just over 50 issues. Does anyone know the status of Sextant or HSCOOP? Were there any other periodicals for the Heathkits? Unfortunately, except of the Remark issues, I only have a single issue of Sextant. Thanks, Mark On 2/4/07, Barry Watzman wrote: > Well, there are lots of Heathkit manuals online and no one has objected; > Remark is even "less copyrighted" than those. I'm not even sure that they > WERE copyrighted, at all (and at one time HUG reported to me), but Hug was a > subsidiary of Heathkit which was a subsidiary of Zenith Electronics > Corporation, and NONE of those entities still exists. Now someone may in > fact own the copyright, technically (if there is a copyright), but if no one > has objected to the Heath product manuals, I can't imagine anyone objecting > to the post of Remark issues. > > Barry Watzman > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of > Mark Garlanger > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 22:23 PM > To: sebhc > Subject: [sebhc] Status of HUG's Remarks. > > Any know what is allowed with REMark magazines? I plan to scan the > issues I have and can upload them to the archives if that is not a > problem. > > Mark > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From me at patswayne.com Mon Feb 5 08:41:16 2007 From: me at patswayne.com (Pat Swayne) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 09:41:16 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Status of HUG's Remarks. In-Reply-To: <704e82240702041923v3094604ehcb7be4358c9bd02@mail.gmail.com > References: <704e82240702041923v3094604ehcb7be4358c9bd02@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- I wrote many of the REMark articles, and I have no problem with you scanning what I wrote. Bob Ellerton was the "boss" of HUG for many years, and you can email him at bellerton at aol.com to ask him. -- Pat At 10:23 PM 2/4/2007, you wrote: >Any know what is allowed with REMark magazines? I plan to scan the >issues I have and can upload them to the archives if that is not a >problem. > >Mark -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Mon Feb 5 08:57:50 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 09:57:50 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Status of HUG's Remarks. In-Reply-To: <000001c74927$6e1ff9d0$176fa8c0@obie> Message-ID: <001901c74936$01d1b250$6500a8c0@barry> I'm not at all sure that the current Heath Company (note, not Heathkit, which was a trademark but not a company name) owns the copyrights to any of the computer stuff. Zenith Electronics sold both ZDS itself (the entire company, which was a legal subsidiary) and the computer assets of Heath Co. to Group Bull (to that extent, an asset sale but not the sale of a corporate entity). It's not clear how fine the scalpel was that they used to define and separate the "computer assets" of Heath Company. And then, later, Group Bull resold the bulk of those assets (as I recall, to some combination of NEC and Packard-Bell). So finding out the legal status of this stuff might take some real digging. Not only on our part, but also on the part of anyone who wanted to enforce a copyright or trademark. Barry Watzman -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Jack Rubin Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 8:13 AM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: RE: [sebhc] Status of HUG's Remarks. When we started SEBHC it was with exactly the same observation that Barry made - while there is a continuing Heathkit corporate entity, they seem to be making no effort to preserve their copyrights. Manuals and software are found all over the net and no-one at Heath _seems_ to care. That is also the reason that the SEBHC archives are "members only" - we want to be clear that we are interested in archiving material for hobbyist use and have no commercial interest in copying or distributing this material. I haven't been in touch with Charles Floto, the publisher of Sextant, for several years but I assume (hope) that he is alive and well. To the best of my knowledge, he still lives in the Washington, DC area. I'll follow up with him regarding archiving copies of the Sextant if people are interested. Speaking for myself, scanning copies of magazines for the archive is a very low priorty at the moment. Too little time, too much stuff to do. The editor/publisher of HSCOOP died several years ago. I've tried to contact his family unsuccessfully several times and would have no problem hosting scans of the publication, again with the clear understanding that the material would be removed immediately if the present copyright owner objected. Jack > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org > [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Mark Garlanger > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 12:01 AM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: Re: [sebhc] Status of HUG's Remarks. > > > Sounds good, I'm not sure how fast I'll be able to get > through my collection, I have just over 50 issues. Does > anyone know the status of Sextant or HSCOOP? Were there any > other periodicals for the Heathkits? Unfortunately, except of > the Remark issues, I only have a single issue of Sextant. > > Thanks, > Mark > > On 2/4/07, Barry Watzman wrote: > > Well, there are lots of Heathkit manuals online and no one has > > objected; Remark is even "less copyrighted" than those. > I'm not even > > sure that they WERE copyrighted, at all (and at one time > HUG reported > > to me), but Hug was a subsidiary of Heathkit which was a > subsidiary of > > Zenith Electronics Corporation, and NONE of those entities still > > exists. Now someone may in fact own the copyright, technically (if > > there is a copyright), but if no one has objected to the > Heath product > > manuals, I can't imagine anyone objecting to the post of Remark > > issues. > > > > Barry Watzman > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On > > Behalf Of Mark Garlanger > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 22:23 PM > > To: sebhc > > Subject: [sebhc] Status of HUG's Remarks. > > > > Any know what is allowed with REMark magazines? I plan to scan the > > issues I have and can upload them to the archives if that is not a > > problem. > > > > Mark > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.25/669 - Release > Date: 2/4/2007 9:58 PM > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.25/669 - Release Date: 2/4/2007 9:58 PM -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From peter59 at sbcglobal.net Mon Feb 5 10:49:29 2007 From: peter59 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Shkabara) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 08:49:29 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] Status of HUG's Remarks. In-Reply-To: <000001c74927$6e1ff9d0$176fa8c0@obie> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.28 MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR URI: Includes a link to a likely spammer email References: <704e82240702042201l2e7486eeqc199b35c6734b74d@mail.gmail.com> <000001c74927$6e1ff9d0$176fa8c0@obie> Message-ID: <002a01c74945$9bb1a470$0d0014ac@voshod> Henry Fale died in 1995. I have not been in touch with his family since then so I don't know their position on copyright. However, I would be surprised if they (widow and sons) would object to an archive. The address for them that I have is 2618 Penn Circle, Sheboygan, WI 53081-4250. I have issues 149 through 176 of HSCOOP and might be able to create PDF files of them to upload. I also have a single issue (30.31) of the Staunch 8/89'er in case anyone is interested. Peter ---------------------------------- peter59 at sbcglobal.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From davidwallace2000 at comcast.net Mon Feb 5 11:12:57 2007 From: davidwallace2000 at comcast.net (davidwallace2000 at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 17:12:57 +0000 Subject: [sebhc] Status of HUG's Remarks. Message-ID: <020520071712.1565.45C765990003E9D80000061D2200750784CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 2551 bytes Desc: not available URL: From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Feb 5 11:38:28 2007 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 09:38:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sebhc] Status of HUG's Remarks. In-Reply-To: <020520071712.1565.45C765990003E9D80000061D2200750784CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> Message-ID: If anyone has loose-page documentation they'd like scanned, please let me know. I've got access to a high-speed duplexing scanner. I'd be happy to help out. g. -- "I'm not crazy, I'm plausibly off-nominal!" Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Mon Feb 5 17:19:10 2007 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 17:19:10 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Status of HUG's Remarks. In-Reply-To: <020520071712.1565.45C765990003E9D80000061D2200750784CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> References: <020520071712.1565.45C765990003E9D80000061D2200750784CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.28 MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR URI: Includes a link to a likely spammer email Message-ID: <704e82240702051519p199c5e75pbffcdc874d56ceb1@mail.gmail.com> Wow, that would be great to have the complete collection scanned in. I have issue #6, #9-#47 and about 7 in the #60s... and should be getting issues #3-#11 this week - yes, I'll have a few (more) dups. If you could fill in the rest, or have enough free time to work on this, that would be great. I was thinking that I should have enough time to scan one issue a night... I scanned issue #6 last night, but still playing with my new scanner settings to get the best results. PDF looked fine but big ~ 28M for 36 pages. I'm trying to convert them to the djvu format to save space. But so far with the free djvu converter and the scanner settings, the results were not very good. I'm going to try again tonight with different settings. Mark On 2/5/07, davidwallace2000 at comcast.net wrote: > > Okay, I'll jump in, too. I'm replying to the message that started this > thread, but I've read up through what was current at the time of my posting > so I know that the copyright issues are complex. (I used to work for > Honeywell Bull.) > > I have EVERY issue published of REMark and a scanner. If the copyright > issue can be put to rest, I'm willing to scan the whole set for our library. > > (I haven't catalogged it all, but I think I have most of the Sextant and > HSCOOP issues, too.) > > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: "Mark Garlanger" > > > Any know what is allowed with REMark magazines? I plan to scan the > > issues I have and can upload them to the archives if that is not a > > problem. > > > > Mark > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Mon Feb 5 18:39:37 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 19:39:37 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Status of HUG's Remarks. In-Reply-To: <020520071712.1565.45C765990003E9D80000061D2200750784CFCFCFCD0A0C0E04040E990B07900E0B@comcast.net> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.28 MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR URI: Includes a link to a likely spammer email 0.00 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message Message-ID: <006501c74987$47fe76e0$6500a8c0@barry> The copyright issue probably can't be firmly put to rest, because it may be impossible to determine with certainty who owns the copyright at this point. It's almost certain to come down to "do it first and if necessary apologize later, because asking first isn't physically possible ... we don't know, and can't easily find out who to ask". Barry Watzman _____ From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of davidwallace2000 at comcast.net Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 12:13 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] Status of HUG's Remarks. Okay, I'll jump in, too. I'm replying to the message that started this thread, but I've read up through what was current at the time of my posting so I know that the copyright issues are complex. (I used to work for Honeywell Bull.) I have EVERY issue published of REMark and a scanner. If the copyright issue can be put to rest, I'm willing to scan the whole set for our library. (I haven't catalogged it all, but I think I have most of the Sextant and HSCOOP issues, too.) -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Mark Garlanger" > Any know what is allowed with REMark magazines? I plan to scan the > issues I have and can upload them to the archives if that is not a > problem. > > Mark > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Watzman at neo.rr.com Mon Feb 5 18:37:30 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 19:37:30 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Status of HUG's Remarks. In-Reply-To: <002a01c74945$9bb1a470$0d0014ac@voshod> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.28 MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR URI: Includes a link to a likely spammer email Message-ID: <006401c74986$fc364990$6500a8c0@barry> I don't think that H-Scoop was copyrighted. In fact, many items (even some Heath Co. software) from that era carried no copyright message. Barry Watzman -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Peter Shkabara Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 11:49 AM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: RE: [sebhc] Status of HUG's Remarks. Henry Fale died in 1995. I have not been in touch with his family since then so I don't know their position on copyright. However, I would be surprised if they (widow and sons) would object to an archive. The address for them that I have is 2618 Penn Circle, Sheboygan, WI 53081-4250. I have issues 149 through 176 of HSCOOP and might be able to create PDF files of them to upload. I also have a single issue (30.31) of the Staunch 8/89'er in case anyone is interested. Peter ---------------------------------- peter59 at sbcglobal.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From peter59 at sbcglobal.net Mon Feb 5 19:39:08 2007 From: peter59 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Shkabara) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 17:39:08 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] Status of HUG's Remarks. In-Reply-To: <006401c74986$fc364990$6500a8c0@barry> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.28 MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR URI: Includes a link to a likely spammer email References: <002a01c74945$9bb1a470$0d0014ac@voshod> <006401c74986$fc364990$6500a8c0@barry> Message-ID: <000401c7498f$a0752050$0d0014ac@voshod> H-Scoop carried the following message: "... And copyright by Henry Fale and Quikdata Inc. All Rights Reserved." I don't know if Quikdata Inc. is still in existence, but there indeed is a copyright notice in each issue. However, I don't think that the family would object to the archiving of the issues. The phone number listed was 414-452-4172, but I have not tried to call it to see if it works. Peter ---------------------------------- peter59 at sbcglobal.net -----Original Message----- I don't think that H-Scoop was copyrighted. In fact, many items (even some Heath Co. software) from that era carried no copyright message. Barry Watzman -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Tue Feb 6 00:59:12 2007 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 00:59:12 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Status of HUG's Remarks. In-Reply-To: <000401c7498f$a0752050$0d0014ac@voshod> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.28 MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR URI: Includes a link to a likely spammer email Message-ID: <005c01c749bc$4efe0ca0$176fa8c0@obie> I tried to reach Henry's family several years ago and tried several Sheboygan phone numbers and addresses with no luck. I reached someone who had apparently purchased the Quickdata inventory from Henry's estate but I never got much of a response from him either. If people are interested, I'll try again later this week to locate his family and also Charlie Floto. Jack > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org > [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Peter Shkabara > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 7:39 PM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: RE: [sebhc] Status of HUG's Remarks. > > > H-Scoop carried the following message: "... And copyright by > Henry Fale and Quikdata Inc. All Rights Reserved." I don't > know if Quikdata Inc. is still in existence, but there indeed > is a copyright notice in each issue. However, I don't think > that the family would object to the archiving of the issues. > The phone number listed was 414-452-4172, but I have not > tried to call it to see if it works. > > Peter > ---------------------------------- > peter59 at sbcglobal.net > > -----Original Message----- > I don't think that H-Scoop was copyrighted. In fact, many > items (even some Heath Co. software) from that era carried no > copyright message. > > Barry Watzman > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.25/669 - Release > Date: 2/4/2007 9:58 PM > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.25/669 - Release Date: 2/4/2007 9:58 PM -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Tue Feb 6 01:00:37 2007 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 01:00:37 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Status of HUG's Remarks. In-Reply-To: <006501c74987$47fe76e0$6500a8c0@barry> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.28 MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR URI: Includes a link to a likely spammer email 0.00 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message Message-ID: <005d01c749bc$817d2490$176fa8c0@obie> That's been the philosophy we've followed. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Barry Watzman Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 6:40 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: RE: [sebhc] Status of HUG's Remarks. The copyright issue probably can?t be firmly put to rest, because it may be impossible to determine with certainty who owns the copyright at this point. It?s almost certain to come down to ?do it first and if necessary apologize later, because asking first isn?t physically possible ... we don?t know, and can?t easily find out who to ask?. Barry Watzman _____ From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of davidwallace2000 at comcast.net Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 12:13 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] Status of HUG's Remarks. Okay, I'll jump in, too. I'm replying to the message that started this thread, but I've read up through what was current at the time of my posting so I know that the copyright issues are complex. (I used to work for Honeywell Bull.) I have EVERY issue published of REMark and a scanner. If the copyright issue can be put to rest, I'm willing to scan the whole set for our library. (I haven't catalogged it all, but I think I have most of the Sextant and HSCOOP issues, too.) -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Mark Garlanger" > Any know what is allowed with REMark magazines? I plan to scan the > issues I have and can upload them to the archives if that is not a > problem. > > Mark > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.25/669 - Release Date: 2/4/2007 9:58 PM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.25/669 - Release Date: 2/4/2007 9:58 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garlanger at gmail.com Thu Feb 8 19:37:40 2007 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 19:37:40 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Hard-sectored disks Message-ID: <704e82240702081737x7452d10t71163472077ab9b2@mail.gmail.com> Is there anyway to use a 16-hole hard-sectored disks on a Heath system? I'm assuming not, but thought I would ask. Any idea which systems used 16 sectored disks? Mark -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From gfroberts at comcast.net Thu Feb 8 20:22:15 2007 From: gfroberts at comcast.net (Glenn Roberts) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 21:22:15 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Hard-sectored disks In-Reply-To: <704e82240702081737x7452d10t71163472077ab9b2@mail.gmail.com> References: <704e82240702081737x7452d10t71163472077ab9b2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2113CCED3FD74F52A5B11FA3E6934F99@Shuttle> the Apple II used 16 hole hard sectored disks. I presume it would at least be a major undertaking to get these to work on Heath hard sectored setups. At a minimum it would seem to require a rewrite of the H17 ROM. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Garlanger" To: "sebhc" Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 8:37 PM Subject: [sebhc] Hard-sectored disks > Is there anyway to use a 16-hole hard-sectored disks on a Heath > system? I'm assuming not, but thought I would ask. Any idea which > systems used 16 sectored disks? > > Mark > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Thu Feb 8 22:16:46 2007 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 20:16:46 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Subject: [sebhc] Hard-sectored disks Message-ID: <16846660.1170994606130.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Glenn Roberts >the Apple II used 16 hole hard sectored disks. I presume it would at least >be a major undertaking to get these to work on Heath hard sectored setups. >At a minimum it would seem to require a rewrite of the H17 ROM. It did? I always thought Apple II disks were soft sector, though the recorded data format was unusual (not FM or MFM, but rather pulse width encoding). Northstar computers used 16-hole hard sectored disks. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dkelvey at hotmail.com Thu Feb 8 23:29:58 2007 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 21:29:58 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] Hard-sectored disks In-Reply-To: <16846660.1170994606130.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 05:29:58 GMT >From: Lee Hart > >From: Glenn Roberts > >the Apple II used 16 hole hard sectored disks. I presume it would at >least > >be a major undertaking to get these to work on Heath hard sectored >setups. > >At a minimum it would seem to require a rewrite of the H17 ROM. > >It did? I always thought Apple II disks were soft sector, though the >recorded data format was unusual (not FM or MFM, but rather pulse width >encoding). > >Northstar computers used 16-hole hard sectored disk. I'm using 10 hole hard sectored on my N*??? Apple II's used soft sectored format that was not one of the standard. It used some type of run length encoding or in terms, a data scrambler. There is no way that with or without software that I'd think you could read it on a H17 controller, without significant hardware modifications. Dwight _________________________________________________________________ Don?t miss your chance to WIN 10 hours of private jet travel from Microsoft Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0540002499mrt/direct/01/ -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Thu Feb 8 23:40:35 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 00:40:35 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Hard-sectored disks In-Reply-To: <16846660.1170994606130.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000c01c74c0c$d2958000$6500a8c0@barry> No, NorthStar computers used the same 10-sector media as Heathkit computers. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 23:17 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] Hard-sectored disks From: Glenn Roberts >the Apple II used 16 hole hard sectored disks. I presume it would at least >be a major undertaking to get these to work on Heath hard sectored setups. >At a minimum it would seem to require a rewrite of the H17 ROM. It did? I always thought Apple II disks were soft sector, though the recorded data format was unusual (not FM or MFM, but rather pulse width encoding). Northstar computers used 16-hole hard sectored disks. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From gfroberts at comcast.net Fri Feb 9 06:51:47 2007 From: gfroberts at comcast.net (Glenn Roberts) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 07:51:47 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Hard-sectored disks In-Reply-To: <16846660.1170994606130.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <16846660.1170994606130.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <9ED6BBAD583D4CD2AA49F6D263F4D057@Shuttle> i'm not an apple expert but here's the source that says the Apple II used 16 "hard" sectored disks: http://retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/drive.html#facts it also (correctly) says that Heath & Northstar used 10 sectored disks. Of course, just because it's on somebody's blog doesn't make it necessarily true!... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Hart" To: Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 11:16 PM Subject: Re: [sebhc] Hard-sectored disks > From: Glenn Roberts >>the Apple II used 16 hole hard sectored disks. I presume it would at >>least >>be a major undertaking to get these to work on Heath hard sectored setups. >>At a minimum it would seem to require a rewrite of the H17 ROM. > > It did? I always thought Apple II disks were soft sector, though the > recorded data format was unusual (not FM or MFM, but rather pulse width > encoding). > > Northstar computers used 16-hole hard sectored disks. > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dave06a at dunfield.com Fri Feb 9 06:59:45 2007 From: dave06a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 07:59:45 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Hard-sectored disks In-Reply-To: <16846660.1170994606130.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <200702091259.l19Cx08L005877@hosting.monisys.ca> > >the Apple II used 16 hole hard sectored disks. I presume it would at least > >be a major undertaking to get these to work on Heath hard sectored setups. > >At a minimum it would seem to require a rewrite of the H17 ROM. > > It did? I always thought Apple II disks were soft sector, though the recorded data format was > unusual (not FM or MFM, but rather pulse width encoding). The Apple-II was soft-sector, and didn't use the sector hole - that is why you could just cut the WP notch and flip a diskette over without having to punch the index hole. > Northstar computers used 16-hole hard sectored disks. No, NorthStar uses 10-sector diskettes (physically the same as H17 diskettes, although the actual format is different) Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dave06a at dunfield.com Fri Feb 9 07:14:33 2007 From: dave06a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 08:14:33 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Hard-sectored disks In-Reply-To: <9ED6BBAD583D4CD2AA49F6D263F4D057@Shuttle> References: <16846660.1170994606130.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <200702091313.l19DDmWE008433@hosting.monisys.ca> > i'm not an apple expert but here's the source that says the Apple II used 16 > "hard" sectored disks: > > http://retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/drive.html#facts Wow - I'm surprised that Herb has such an error - I'll send him a note. It's entirely possible that a disk subsystem existed for the AppleII which used hard-sector disks, however the standard Disk-II system was definately soft sector, and definately did not require the index hole at all (I had a switch installed on one of my drives to allow you to defeat the write protect notch sensor - with this I could make backups on the back side of disks without having to physically alter them. They would read in any normal DiskII drive like any other write protected disk). > it also (correctly) says that Heath & Northstar used 10 sectored disks. Of > course, just because it's on somebody's blog doesn't make it necessarily > true!... I can confirm that NorthStar is 10 sector, as I have several NorthStar systems and controllers. Although I don't have an H17, I did implement the H17 disk system in my H8 simulator, and it definately has 10 sectors as well. Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dkelvey at hotmail.com Fri Feb 9 09:40:29 2007 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 07:40:29 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] Hard-sectored disks In-Reply-To: <200702091313.l19DDmWE008433@hosting.monisys.ca> Message-ID: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 15:40:29 GMT >From: "Dave Dunfield" > > > i'm not an apple expert but here's the source that says the Apple II >used 16 > > "hard" sectored disks: > > > > http://retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/drive.html#facts > >Wow - I'm surprised that Herb has such an error - I'll send him a note. >It's entirely possible that a disk subsystem existed for the AppleII which >used hard-sector disks, however the standard Disk-II system was >definately soft sector, and definately did not require the index hole at >all (I had a switch installed on one of my drives to allow you to defeat >the write protect notch sensor - with this I could make backups on the >back side of disks without having to physically alter them. They would >read in any normal DiskII drive like any other write protected disk). > ---snip--- Hi He may have been refering to some 8 inch system on an Apple?? Dwight _________________________________________________________________ Search for grocery stores. Find gratitude. Turn a simple search into something more. http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemtagline_gratitude&FORM=WLMTAG -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dave06a at dunfield.com Fri Feb 9 10:10:56 2007 From: dave06a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 11:10:56 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Hard-sectored disks In-Reply-To: <9ED6BBAD583D4CD2AA49F6D263F4D057@Shuttle> References: <16846660.1170994606130.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <200702091610.l19GACu4030083@hosting.monisys.ca> > i'm not an apple expert but here's the source that says the Apple II used 16 > "hard" sectored disks: > > http://retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/drive.html#facts I pinged Herb and he says he will fix the Apple-II reference. He also says he thinks the Exidy Sourcerer used 16-sector disks, but like me can't think of any other systems off the top ... they were not nearly as common as 10-sector disks. Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dave06a at dunfield.com Fri Feb 9 10:12:40 2007 From: dave06a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 11:12:40 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Hard-sectored disks In-Reply-To: References: <200702091313.l19DDmWE008433@hosting.monisys.ca> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <200702091611.l19GBuN5030538@hosting.monisys.ca> > He may have been refering to some 8 inch system on an Apple?? Possible, although this certainly isn't the standard Apple-II disk system ... btw: I think all the hard-sector 8" systems I've seen have been 32 sectors - were there 16-sector 8" disks? Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dkelvey at hotmail.com Fri Feb 9 10:31:16 2007 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 08:31:16 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] a few H89's on ebay In-Reply-To: <200702091313.l19DDmWE008433@hosting.monisys.ca> Message-ID: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 16:31:16 GMT Hi I thought I'd pass this on to the group. There are a couple of H89's on ebay. There is one fellow that has a lot of these but I think he'll have to drop his price some ~$50. There is also one listed as a H88. Looking at the pictures, it has 64K of RAM and it looks to also have a soft sectored controller. I think the $50 he's asking for this is in the right range. I have no connection to either of these ( I did email the first fellow and was giving him some hints on how to better describe his items and photo's. He then told me that he knew just what he was doing and was a long time ebay seller. He didn't welcome my advice and was a little snotty. He did sell one of the H89's but hasn't had any luck since then( no surprise). His auctions are poorly done and there is no information on what is inside of each machine. Not even information on if it lights up. Dwight _________________________________________________________________ Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From bill at armchairarcade.com Fri Feb 9 10:21:59 2007 From: bill at armchairarcade.com (Bill Loguidice) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 11:21:59 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Hard-sectored disks In-Reply-To: <200702091611.l19GBuN5030538@hosting.monisys.ca> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- References: <200702091313.l19DDmWE008433@hosting.monisys.ca> <200702091611.l19GBuN5030538@hosting.monisys.ca> Message-ID: <008801c74c66$7018d800$2174fea9@EAST.VIS.COM> In all my time with the Apple II, I never recall seeing or reading about an 8 inch disk system, though that doesn't mean one didn't exist on the periphery. The infamous Disk II (soft-sectored, 5.25") was released in 1978, one year after the Apple II's release in 1977. The Disk II was cheaper than most other disk drives at the time, and certainly elegantly designed, probably negating the need for any other format, particulary of the 8" variety (and in fact the Disk II killed cassettes on the system pretty quickly too -- I'd hazard to say the Apple II had the quickest and most thorough adoption of disks as a software delivery standard than any other system at the time or for some time thereafter). Even the business-oriented Apple III didn't bother with 8" disks. It wasn't until the Apple IIc+ that a 3.5" disk drive was included as the internal drive. ====================================== Bill Loguidice, Managing Director Armchair Arcade, Inc. (A PC Magazine Top 100 Website) ====================================== http://www.armchairarcade.com > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org > [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Dave Dunfield > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 11:13 AM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: Re: [sebhc] Hard-sectored disks > > > He may have been refering to some 8 inch system on an Apple?? > > Possible, although this certainly isn't the standard Apple-II > disk system ... > > btw: I think all the hard-sector 8" systems I've seen have been > 32 sectors - were there 16-sector 8" disks? > > Dave > > -- > dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield > dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: > www.dunfield.com > com Collector of vintage computing equipment: > http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dkelvey at hotmail.com Fri Feb 9 10:38:31 2007 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 08:38:31 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] Hard-sectored disks In-Reply-To: <200702091611.l19GBuN5030538@hosting.monisys.ca> Message-ID: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 16:38:31 GMT Hi Dave I've seen 16 sectored 8 inch disk. I'm had been looking for good deals on 32 hard sectored 8 inch disk for my Nicolet computer ( I have enough disk now ) and came across a 16 hard sectored one. There was also a hard sectored one with the holes around the outside of the disk. I have a friend that has a machien that uses these. I don't recall how many holes it has. Dwight >From: "Dave Dunfield" >Reply-To: sebhc at sebhc.org >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: Re: [sebhc] Hard-sectored disks >Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 11:12:40 -0500 > > > He may have been refering to some 8 inch system on an Apple?? > >Possible, although this certainly isn't the standard Apple-II >disk system ... > >btw: I think all the hard-sector 8" systems I've seen have been >32 sectors - were there 16-sector 8" disks? > >Dave > >-- >dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield >dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com >com Collector of vintage computing equipment: > http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List _________________________________________________________________ Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From wm65805 at hotmail.com Fri Feb 9 10:41:50 2007 From: wm65805 at hotmail.com (bill malcolm) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 10:41:50 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Hard-sectored disks References: <200702091313.l19DDmWE008433@hosting.monisys.ca> <200702091611.l19GBuN5030538@hosting.monisys.ca> <008801c74c66$7018d800$2174fea9@EAST.VIS.COM> Message-ID: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 16:47:24 +0000 Yes there was a 3rd party that built and sold a FM/MFM controller card that allowed the use of 8 inch disk drives. It is also possible that the SWIM chip could access 8 inch drives using special software. bill .. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Loguidice" To: Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 10:21 AM Subject: RE: [sebhc] Hard-sectored disks > In all my time with the Apple II, I never recall seeing or reading about an > 8 inch disk system, though that doesn't mean one didn't exist on the > periphery. The infamous Disk II (soft-sectored, 5.25") was released in > 1978, one year after the Apple II's release in 1977. The Disk II was > cheaper than most other disk drives at the time, and certainly elegantly > designed, probably negating the need for any other format, particulary of > the 8" variety (and in fact the Disk II killed cassettes on the system > pretty quickly too -- I'd hazard to say the Apple II had the quickest and > most thorough adoption of disks as a software delivery standard than any > other system at the time or for some time thereafter). Even the > business-oriented Apple III didn't bother with 8" disks. It wasn't until > the Apple IIc+ that a 3.5" disk drive was included as the internal drive. > > ====================================== > Bill Loguidice, Managing Director > Armchair Arcade, Inc. > (A PC Magazine Top 100 Website) > ====================================== > http://www.armchairarcade.com > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org > > [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Dave Dunfield > > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 11:13 AM > > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > > Subject: Re: [sebhc] Hard-sectored disks > > > > > He may have been refering to some 8 inch system on an Apple?? > > > > Possible, although this certainly isn't the standard Apple-II > > disk system ... > > > > btw: I think all the hard-sector 8" systems I've seen have been > > 32 sectors - were there 16-sector 8" disks? > > > > Dave > > > > -- > > dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield > > dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: > > www.dunfield.com > > com Collector of vintage computing equipment: > > http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From bill at armchairarcade.com Fri Feb 9 10:45:07 2007 From: bill at armchairarcade.com (Bill Loguidice) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 11:45:07 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] a few H89's on ebay In-Reply-To: Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- References: <200702091313.l19DDmWE008433@hosting.monisys.ca> Message-ID: <008c01c74c69$ac0eb2f0$2174fea9@EAST.VIS.COM> If it's that Larrysc310 guy, then he's an ass and always has been, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. ====================================== Bill Loguidice, Managing Director Armchair Arcade, Inc. (A PC Magazine Top 100 Website) ====================================== http://www.armchairarcade.com > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org > [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of dwight elvey > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 11:31 AM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: [sebhc] a few H89's on ebay > > Hi > I thought I'd pass this on to the group. There > are a couple of H89's on ebay. There is one fellow that > has a lot of these but I think he'll have to drop his price some > ~$50. There is also one listed as a H88. Looking at the > pictures, it has 64K of RAM and it looks to also have > a soft sectored controller. I think the $50 he's asking > for this is in the right range. > I have no connection to either of these ( I did email > the first fellow and was giving him some hints on how > to better describe his items and photo's. He then > told me that he knew just what he was doing and was > a long time ebay seller. He didn't welcome my advice > and was a little snotty. > He did sell one of the H89's > but hasn't had any luck since then( no surprise). His > auctions are poorly done and there is no information > on what is inside of each machine. Not even information > on if it lights up. > Dwight > > _________________________________________________________________ > Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with > Windows Live > Spaces > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?h > ref=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_ > url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From wm65805 at hotmail.com Fri Feb 9 10:37:30 2007 From: wm65805 at hotmail.com (bill malcolm) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 10:37:30 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Hard-sectored disks References: <200702091259.l19Cx08L005877@hosting.monisys.ca> Message-ID: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 16:43:08 +0000 Sorry the Apple II did not use soft sectored disks -- not MFM and does not use sector hole. bill .. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Dunfield" To: Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 6:59 AM Subject: Re: [sebhc] Hard-sectored disks > > > >the Apple II used 16 hole hard sectored disks. I presume it would at least > > >be a major undertaking to get these to work on Heath hard sectored setups. > > >At a minimum it would seem to require a rewrite of the H17 ROM. > > > > It did? I always thought Apple II disks were soft sector, though the recorded data format was > > unusual (not FM or MFM, but rather pulse width encoding). > > The Apple-II was soft-sector, and didn't use the sector hole - that is why you could just > cut the WP notch and flip a diskette over without having to punch the index hole. > > > Northstar computers used 16-hole hard sectored disks. > > No, NorthStar uses 10-sector diskettes (physically the same as H17 diskettes, although > the actual format is different) > > Dave > > -- > dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield > dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com > com Collector of vintage computing equipment: > http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Fri Feb 9 10:58:18 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 11:58:18 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Hard-sectored disks In-Reply-To: Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.10 BSF_SC0_SA085 URI: Custom Rule SA085 Message-ID: <001701c74c6b$8216c350$6500a8c0@barry> You just missed a carton of 10 boxes (100 diskettes total) of 32-sector 8" diskettes yesterday. Maxell, NOS still shrink wrapped. I was not aware that there were 16-sector 8" diskettes; I've never seen them. But I have seen (very rarely) the ones with the holes around the outside edge of the diskette. Barry Watzman Watzman at neo.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of dwight elvey Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 11:39 AM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] Hard-sectored disks Hi Dave I've seen 16 sectored 8 inch disk. I'm had been looking for good deals on 32 hard sectored 8 inch disk for my Nicolet computer ( I have enough disk now ) and came across a 16 hard sectored one. There was also a hard sectored one with the holes around the outside of the disk. I have a friend that has a machien that uses these. I don't recall how many holes it has. Dwight >From: "Dave Dunfield" >Reply-To: sebhc at sebhc.org >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: Re: [sebhc] Hard-sectored disks >Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 11:12:40 -0500 > > > He may have been refering to some 8 inch system on an Apple?? > >Possible, although this certainly isn't the standard Apple-II >disk system ... > >btw: I think all the hard-sector 8" systems I've seen have been >32 sectors - were there 16-sector 8" disks? > >Dave > >-- >dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield >dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com >com Collector of vintage computing equipment: > http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List _________________________________________________________________ Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spa ces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Feb 9 11:11:44 2007 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 09:11:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sebhc] a few H89's on ebay In-Reply-To: <008c01c74c69$ac0eb2f0$2174fea9@EAST.VIS.COM> Message-ID: > If it's that Larrysc310 guy, then he's an ass and always has been, so I > wouldn't worry too much about it. > Tell me about it. I just bought one of the H77 disk enclosures from him. I think the term "prat" fits nicely. *sigh* g. -- "I'm not crazy, I'm plausibly off-nominal!" Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Fri Feb 9 10:59:04 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 11:59:04 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] a few H89's on ebay In-Reply-To: <008c01c74c69$ac0eb2f0$2174fea9@EAST.VIS.COM> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <001801c74c6b$9b053590$6500a8c0@barry> Larry used to work for Heathkit. He knows what the stuff is. Beyond that, I won't comment. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Bill Loguidice Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 11:45 AM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: RE: [sebhc] a few H89's on ebay If it's that Larrysc310 guy, then he's an ass and always has been, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. ====================================== Bill Loguidice, Managing Director Armchair Arcade, Inc. (A PC Magazine Top 100 Website) ====================================== http://www.armchairarcade.com > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org > [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of dwight elvey > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 11:31 AM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: [sebhc] a few H89's on ebay > > Hi > I thought I'd pass this on to the group. There > are a couple of H89's on ebay. There is one fellow that > has a lot of these but I think he'll have to drop his price some > ~$50. There is also one listed as a H88. Looking at the > pictures, it has 64K of RAM and it looks to also have > a soft sectored controller. I think the $50 he's asking > for this is in the right range. > I have no connection to either of these ( I did email > the first fellow and was giving him some hints on how > to better describe his items and photo's. He then > told me that he knew just what he was doing and was > a long time ebay seller. He didn't welcome my advice > and was a little snotty. > He did sell one of the H89's > but hasn't had any luck since then( no surprise). His > auctions are poorly done and there is no information > on what is inside of each machine. Not even information > on if it lights up. > Dwight > > _________________________________________________________________ > Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with > Windows Live > Spaces > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?h > ref=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_ > url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From paulpenn at knology.net Fri Feb 9 12:02:35 2007 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul A. Pennington) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 13:02:35 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Hard-sectored disks References: <200702091313.l19DDmWE008433@hosting.monisys.ca> <200702091611.l19GBuN5030538@hosting.monisys.ca> <008801c74c66$7018d800$2174fea9@EAST.VIS.COM> Message-ID: <005c01c74c74$7a72f520$6501a8c0@A31PAUL> If I recall correctly, the Apple II used a soft sector format, but ignored the sector holes on the disks if present. That meant you could use any disks you wanted and format them soft sectored. The statement "The Apple II used hard sectored disks" would be true, even if somewhat misleading. Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dave06a at dunfield.com Fri Feb 9 12:04:25 2007 From: dave06a at dunfield.com (Dave Dunfield) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 13:04:25 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Hard-sectored disks In-Reply-To: References: <200702091611.l19GBuN5030538@hosting.monisys.ca> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <200702091803.l19I3gCA024513@hosting.monisys.ca> > Hi Dave > I've seen 16 sectored 8 inch disk. I'm had been looking > for good deals on 32 hard sectored 8 inch disk for my Nicolet > computer ( I have enough disk now ) and came across > a 16 hard sectored one. There was also a hard sectored > one with the holes around the outside of the disk. I have > a friend that has a machien that uses these. I don't recall > how many holes it has. > Dwight I've seen the disks with the holes around the outside edge ... but I've not seen a 16-sector 8" ... If you need more, I have few unopened boxes of 32-sector hard 8" media - and I don't have anything that uses them... Regards, Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Fri Feb 9 13:34:28 2007 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 13:34:28 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] Hard-sectored disks In-Reply-To: <200702091610.l19GACu4030083@hosting.monisys.ca> References: <16846660.1170994606130.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <9ED6BBAD583D4CD2AA49F6D263F4D057@Shuttle> <200702091610.l19GACu4030083@hosting.monisys.ca> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <704e82240702091134x266baac2o12c8f994050f4bf8@mail.gmail.com> Yea, I was kinda surprised when I saw 100 of them for sale on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120082824666 luckily he also had 100 of the regular 10 hard-sectored disks that I won. But since this batch of 16 sectored disks didn't sell the first time, I thought I'd at least see if it was feasible to get these working. Mark On 2/9/07, Dave Dunfield wrote: > He also says he thinks the Exidy Sourcerer used 16-sector disks, > but like me can't think of any other systems off the top ... they > were not nearly as common as 10-sector disks. > > Dave > > -- > dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield > dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com > com Collector of vintage computing equipment: > http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From peter59 at sbcglobal.net Fri Feb 9 15:37:42 2007 From: peter59 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Shkabara) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 13:37:42 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] Hard-sectored disks In-Reply-To: <200702091610.l19GACu4030083@hosting.monisys.ca> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.28 MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR URI: Includes a link to a likely spammer email References: <16846660.1170994606130.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <200702091610.l19GACu4030083@hosting.monisys.ca> Message-ID: <001f01c74c92$8953b890$0d0014ac@voshod> After all these years, our memory becomes more volatile! If mine is still functioning correctly, I seem to remember that Micropolis made a floppy drive that used 16 had sector disks. The version I am thinking about was designed to work with an S-100 bus system - kind of generic. When I first got my H89, the floppy system was not yet available, so I bought a Micropolis package and was going to adapt it. However, the drive mechanisms were not as good as I had hoped for, so I gave up the project and returned the drives to the vendor (cost me a restocking fee). Peter Shkabara ---------------------------------- peter59 at sbcglobal.net -----Original Message----- > i'm not an apple expert but here's the source that says the Apple II > used 16 "hard" sectored disks: > > http://retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/drive.html#facts I pinged Herb and he says he will fix the Apple-II reference. He also says he thinks the Exidy Sourcerer used 16-sector disks, but like me can't think of any other systems off the top ... they were not nearly as common as 10-sector disks. Dave -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dkelvey at hotmail.com Fri Feb 9 22:25:37 2007 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 20:25:37 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] a few H89's on ebay Message-ID: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 04:25:37 GMT >From: "Barry Watzman" > >Larry used to work for Heathkit. He knows what the stuff is. Beyond that, >I won't comment. > Hi Barry Yes, he mentioned that. I still think he doesn't know how to sell things but what do I know, I'm just a buyer. We buyers are just mesmerized by the words Vintage and Rare at the beginning of each description. Dwight > _________________________________________________________________ Search for grocery stores. Find gratitude. Turn a simple search into something more. http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemtagline_gratitude&FORM=WLMTAG -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dkelvey at hotmail.com Fri Feb 9 22:27:05 2007 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 20:27:05 -0800 Subject: [sebhc] Hard-sectored disks In-Reply-To: <200702091803.l19I3gCA024513@hosting.monisys.ca> Message-ID: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 04:27:05 GMT Hi Dave Thanks for the offer. I have enough to last for a while. Dwight >From: "Dave Dunfield" > > > Hi Dave > > I've seen 16 sectored 8 inch disk. I'm had been looking > > for good deals on 32 hard sectored 8 inch disk for my Nicolet > > computer ( I have enough disk now ) and came across > > a 16 hard sectored one. There was also a hard sectored > > one with the holes around the outside of the disk. I have > > a friend that has a machien that uses these. I don't recall > > how many holes it has. > > Dwight > >I've seen the disks with the holes around the outside edge ... >but I've not seen a 16-sector 8" ... > >If you need more, I have few unopened boxes of 32-sector >hard 8" media - and I don't have anything that uses them... > >Regards, >Dave > >-- >dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield >dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com >com Collector of vintage computing equipment: > http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List _________________________________________________________________ Don?t miss your chance to WIN 10 hours of private jet travel from Microsoft Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0540002499mrt/direct/01/ -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From paulpenn at knology.net Sat Feb 17 13:47:40 2007 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul A. Pennington) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 14:47:40 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] ET-3400A Eratta Book References: Message-ID: <002701c752cc$7b9707d0$6501a8c0@A31PAUL> Auction #140086006060 currently on eBay includes a 7-page "ET-3400A Errata Book" for the Heathkit trainer. Does anyone here have one of these we can get into the Archive? I already have the other ET-3400A books and don't want to pay $27.00 for the 7 pages. I'm currently repairing one of these I just bought and thought there might be something helpful in there. I see we have the ET-3400 basic model in the archives but not the A model. There are significant differences. I'll try to work on scanning my docs later. Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From tw at timothyweber.org Sat Feb 17 14:22:07 2007 From: tw at timothyweber.org (Timothy J. Weber) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 15:22:07 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] ET-3400A Eratta Book In-Reply-To: <002701c752cc$7b9707d0$6501a8c0@A31PAUL> References: <002701c752cc$7b9707d0$6501a8c0@A31PAUL> Message-ID: <45D763EF.3060707@timothyweber.org> No, I don't have it, and I'd be a little curious to see what the differences are. Paul A. Pennington wrote: > Auction #140086006060 currently on eBay includes a 7-page "ET-3400A > Errata Book" for the Heathkit trainer. Does anyone here have one of > these we can get into the Archive? I already have the other ET-3400A > books and don't want to pay $27.00 for the 7 pages. > > I'm currently repairing one of these I just bought and thought there > might be something helpful in there. I see we have the ET-3400 basic > model in the archives but not the A model. There are significant > differences. I'll try to work on scanning my docs later. > > Paul Pennington > Augusta, Georgia > > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Timothy J. Weber http://timothyweber.org -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sat Feb 17 15:39:39 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 16:39:39 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] ET-3400A Eratta Book In-Reply-To: <002701c752cc$7b9707d0$6501a8c0@A31PAUL> Message-ID: <000301c752dc$20f8d690$6500a8c0@barry> Contact the seller and ask if he will copy it for you and mail you the copy for a couple of dollars. [It's even possible he can easily scan it and E-Mail you the images]. I've done this before, not only with documents but with CDs (setup and system restore CDs for laptops). Some sellers will, some won't, but there is no harm in asking. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Paul A. Pennington Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 14:48 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: [sebhc] ET-3400A Eratta Book Auction #140086006060 currently on eBay includes a 7-page "ET-3400A Errata Book" for the Heathkit trainer. Does anyone here have one of these we can get into the Archive? I already have the other ET-3400A books and don't want to pay $27.00 for the 7 pages. I'm currently repairing one of these I just bought and thought there might be something helpful in there. I see we have the ET-3400 basic model in the archives but not the A model. There are significant differences. I'll try to work on scanning my docs later. Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From paulpenn at knology.net Sat Feb 17 16:42:15 2007 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul A. Pennington) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 17:42:15 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] ET-3400A Eratta Book References: <000301c752dc$20f8d690$6500a8c0@barry> Message-ID: <000e01c752e4$df13b3e0$6501a8c0@A31PAUL> Barry; > Contact the seller and ask if he will copy it for you... Good idea, although he'd probably rather sell the whole thing. If he won't, I'll contact the buyer. He may be more likely to do it, since wouldn't be competing with himself. Just noticed I created an erratum of my own by misspelling "Errata" in the subject -- pretty funny. --Paul -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Sat Feb 17 18:14:39 2007 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 18:14:39 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] ET-3400A Eratta Book In-Reply-To: <000e01c752e4$df13b3e0$6501a8c0@A31PAUL> References: <000301c752dc$20f8d690$6500a8c0@barry> <000e01c752e4$df13b3e0$6501a8c0@A31PAUL> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <704e82240702171614kaf5599cy5009a223f768624f@mail.gmail.com> It may be hard to get to connect the buyer. Last time I tried, ebay had detected that I had "no current transactions" with that person and would not send them the message. Mark On 2/17/07, Paul A. Pennington wrote: > Barry; > > > Contact the seller and ask if he will copy it for you... > > Good idea, although he'd probably rather sell the whole thing. If he > won't, I'll contact the buyer. He may be more likely to do it, since > wouldn't be competing with himself. > > Just noticed I created an erratum of my own by misspelling "Errata" in > the subject -- pretty funny. > > --Paul > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Feb 17 18:32:04 2007 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 19:32:04 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] ET-3400A Eratta Book In-Reply-To: <704e82240702171614kaf5599cy5009a223f768624f@mail.gmail.com> References: <000301c752dc$20f8d690$6500a8c0@barry> <000e01c752e4$df13b3e0$6501a8c0@A31PAUL> <704e82240702171614kaf5599cy5009a223f768624f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <521DAF73-81A1-42D0-837F-E1C855B55470@neurotica.com> On Feb 17, 2007, at 7:14 PM, Mark Garlanger wrote: > It may be hard to get to connect the buyer. Last time I tried, ebay > had detected that I had "no current transactions" with that person and > would not send them the message. I cannot begin to express just how infuriating that new policy of theirs is. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sat Feb 17 19:55:25 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 20:55:25 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] ET-3400A Eratta Book In-Reply-To: <521DAF73-81A1-42D0-837F-E1C855B55470@neurotica.com> Message-ID: <000901c752ff$dbf73d60$6500a8c0@barry> You can still get hold of them. Click on their ID in ANY auction to see their "feedback". At the top of the feedback page, click on "See All Feedback", then on that page (the member profile page) click on "contact member". -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Dave McGuire Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 19:32 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] ET-3400A Eratta Book On Feb 17, 2007, at 7:14 PM, Mark Garlanger wrote: > It may be hard to get to connect the buyer. Last time I tried, ebay > had detected that I had "no current transactions" with that person and > would not send them the message. I cannot begin to express just how infuriating that new policy of theirs is. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Feb 18 15:59:02 2007 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:59:02 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] ET-3400A Eratta Book In-Reply-To: <000901c752ff$dbf73d60$6500a8c0@barry> References: <000901c752ff$dbf73d60$6500a8c0@barry> Message-ID: <15EAC58B-6A78-469C-B594-26806E5A5B06@neurotica.com> Oh, really? Hmm, I was unaware of that. Thanks for the tip! -Dave On Feb 17, 2007, at 8:55 PM, Barry Watzman wrote: > You can still get hold of them. Click on their ID in ANY auction > to see > their "feedback". At the top of the feedback page, click on "See All > Feedback", then on that page (the member profile page) click on > "contact > member". > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On > Behalf Of > Dave McGuire > Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 19:32 PM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: Re: [sebhc] ET-3400A Eratta Book > > On Feb 17, 2007, at 7:14 PM, Mark Garlanger wrote: >> It may be hard to get to connect the buyer. Last time I tried, ebay >> had detected that I had "no current transactions" with that person >> and >> would not send them the message. > > I cannot begin to express just how infuriating that new policy of > theirs is. > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire > Port Charlotte, FL > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From oe3pha at amrs.at Mon Feb 19 02:54:40 2007 From: oe3pha at amrs.at (oe3pha) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 09:54:40 +0100 Subject: [sebhc] ET/ETA-3400 ROM-Dump Help Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <000001c75403$973f6da0$661413ac@chello.at> I am looking about two years for the ET-3400/ETA-3400 ROM (444-24/444-25/444-51 - Monitor/Monitor II/Tiny Basic) but without success. Once I found someone, but he wanted for each of the ROMs $11,-- plus postage, which is in my opinion a lot of money!? I started to write down the source code of the manuals and assembled it, to download it on a small homebrew developmentsystem. I had success, but some parts in the source were missing. A guy in denmark gave the missing parts. But I still need a HEX- or BINARY dump of these ROMs FalconII+TinyBasic. The procedure for generating a dump will be simple: Steps on the ET-3400/ETA-3400 after starting the terminalemulation and storage on the pc: + Switch on the equipment + RESET (message on hex-display CPU UP) + DO 1400 cr (start FANTOM II monitor -> MON>) + MON>P 1400,23FF cr (punch/dump FANTOM II + Tiny Basic - addressrange 1400 to 23FF) + MON>P F800,FFFF cr (punch/dump monitor - addressrange F800 to FFFF) I hope that someone in the group can help and supply the dumps. Many thanks in advance peter peter.hofmann at chello.at oe3pha at amrs.at -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From luposian at cox.net Mon Feb 19 04:12:54 2007 From: luposian at cox.net (Luposian) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 03:12:54 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] ET-3400A Eratta Book In-Reply-To: <002701c752cc$7b9707d0$6501a8c0@A31PAUL> References: <002701c752cc$7b9707d0$6501a8c0@A31PAUL> Message-ID: <499cd87a2d38418566b45e32574128cf@cox.net> On Feb 17, 2007, at 12:47 PM, Paul A. Pennington wrote: > I'm currently repairing one of these I just bought and thought > there might be something helpful in there. I see we have the ET-3400 > basic model in the archives but not the A model. There are > significant differences. I'll try to work on scanning my docs later. The ET-3400A I got was pretty dirty and all it would display is all 8's across the display. I tried pulling every chip and reseating them, to no avail. I finally gave up and decided to just hose it down (with a garden hose and spray nozzle) and make it a nice, CLEAN, non-working ET-3400A. Well, after letting it dry out a few days and making sure it was dry on the inside, I plugged it in and turned it on... "CPU UP" To say I was shocked (surprised, not electrocuted!), is an understatement. I was absolutely amazed! Apparently the dirty residue on the board was shorting something out. Just my $0.02, in case you might have a similar situation on your hands. Good luck getting yours working. Now, if only I could learn how to program this thing, it would actually WORTH something to me! Anyone got the time to teach a know-nothing like me how to press all these weird buttons in the right order to DO something useful with this thing? :-) I've got training books and manuals for the thing, but none of it makes any sense to me. I need a tutor!!! :-D Luposian "Sometimes a garden hose is all you need." -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From paulpenn at knology.net Mon Feb 19 07:51:08 2007 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul A. Pennington) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 08:51:08 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] ET/ETA-3400 ROM-Dump Help References: <000001c75403$973f6da0$661413ac@chello.at> Message-ID: <000e01c7542d$021ceca0$6501a8c0@A31PAUL> Peter; I have the 444-24 and 444-25 ROM's here, and I'd be glad to provide dumps if you can be patient a little longer :-) My EPROM burner, and the ISA computer it is in, are in storage. It's going to be a while before I get them going. If anyone else here has the ROM dumps, step right in. The 444-51 number I do not recognize. My ET-3400 has a 444-17 ROM, and my ET-3400A has 444-76. Anyone know the answer on this? Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia ----- Original Message ----- From: "oe3pha" To: Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 3:54 AM Subject: [sebhc] ET/ETA-3400 ROM-Dump Help >I am looking about two years for the ET-3400/ETA-3400 ROM > (444-24/444-25/444-51 > - Monitor/Monitor II/Tiny Basic) but without success. Once I found > someone, > but he wanted for each of the ROMs $11,-- plus postage, which is in my > opinion a > lot of money!? > I started to write down the source code of the manuals and assembled it, > to > download it on a > small homebrew developmentsystem. I had success, but some parts in the > source > were missing. A guy in denmark gave the missing parts. But I still need a > HEX- > or BINARY dump of > these ROMs FalconII+TinyBasic. The procedure for generating a dump will be > simple: > > Steps on the ET-3400/ETA-3400 after starting the terminalemulation and > storage > on the pc: > > + Switch on the equipment > + RESET (message on hex-display CPU UP) > + DO 1400 cr (start FANTOM II monitor -> MON>) > + MON>P 1400,23FF cr (punch/dump FANTOM II + Tiny Basic - addressrange > 1400 > to > 23FF) > + MON>P F800,FFFF cr (punch/dump monitor - addressrange F800 to FFFF) > > I hope that someone in the group can help and supply the dumps. Many > thanks > in > advance > peter > > peter.hofmann at chello.at > oe3pha at amrs.at > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From paulpenn at knology.net Mon Feb 19 07:56:23 2007 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul A. Pennington) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 08:56:23 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] ET-3400A Eratta Book References: <002701c752cc$7b9707d0$6501a8c0@A31PAUL> <499cd87a2d38418566b45e32574128cf@cox.net> Message-ID: <001301c7542d$bdfa0890$6501a8c0@A31PAUL> Luposian; Great story. I'm not that desperate yet, but I may give up and stick it in the dishwasher someday :-) I'd be glad to help get you started on operating the thing. Email me directly. Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Luposian" To: Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 5:12 AM Subject: Re: [sebhc] ET-3400A Eratta Book > On Feb 17, 2007, at 12:47 PM, Paul A. Pennington wrote: > >> I'm currently repairing one of these I just bought and thought there >> might be something helpful in there. I see we have the ET-3400 basic >> model in the archives but not the A model. There are significant >> differences. I'll try to work on scanning my docs later. > > The ET-3400A I got was pretty dirty and all it would display is all 8's > across the display. I tried pulling every chip and reseating them, to no > avail. I finally gave up and decided to just hose it down (with a garden > hose and spray nozzle) and make it a nice, CLEAN, non-working ET-3400A. > Well, after letting it dry out a few days and making sure it was dry on > the inside, I plugged it in and turned it on... > > "CPU UP" > > To say I was shocked (surprised, not electrocuted!), is an understatement. > I was absolutely amazed! > > Apparently the dirty residue on the board was shorting something out. > Just my $0.02, in case you might have a similar situation on your hands. > Good luck getting yours working. > > Now, if only I could learn how to program this thing, it would actually > WORTH something to me! Anyone got the time to teach a know-nothing like > me how to press all these weird buttons in the right order to DO something > useful with this thing? :-) I've got training books and manuals for the > thing, but none of it makes any sense to me. I need a tutor!!! :-D > > Luposian > "Sometimes a garden hose is all you need." > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From peter.hofmann at teleweb.at Mon Feb 19 09:23:45 2007 From: peter.hofmann at teleweb.at (Peter Hofmann) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 16:23:45 +0100 Subject: [sebhc] ET/ETA-3400 ROM-Dump Help In-Reply-To: <000e01c7542d$021ceca0$6501a8c0@A31PAUL> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <000701c75439$f20a9f80$661413ac@chello.at> Paul, Many thanks for your answer! Concerning the ROMs: 444-17 ... 1KB mask programmed ROM (the very first monitor in the ET3400) 444-76 ... 2KB NMOS 2316 ROM >don't know if monitor/expanded monitor/tinybasic< ??? 444-25 ... 2KB NMOS 2316 ROM terminal monitor 444-24 ... 2KB NMOS 2316 ROM tinybasic - installed in the expansion box ETA-3400 - U106 444-51 ... 2KB NMOS 2316 ROM terminal monitor FANTOM II HEATH/WINTEK - installed in the expansion box ETA-3400 - U105 The interesting address ranges are 1400-2300H ... includes expanded monitor + tinybasic F800-FFFFH ... standard monitor You can check with the keys EXAMine + address the contents of the ROMs, which should look 1400 ... 0F CE 10 6F 86 ... (expanded monitor) 1C00 ... 7E 1D 00 1D E1 ... (tinybasic) In case you see these contents, it will be fine! If the data pattern looks at all above mentioned addresses equal, then I think that you will not have the expansion box. In case you have the expansion box, the procedure to generate the dump will be: Using a PC as terminal is the easiest way. The Windows uitility >HYPERTERMINAL< will be quite good for a terminalemulation. With this tool the complete dialog and also the dump command on the et3400 can be stored in a file. Steps on the ET-3400/ETA-3400 after starting the terminalemulation (speed parameter ... should be setup before)on the pc: + Switch on the equipment + RESET (message on hex-display CPU UP) + DO 1400 cr (start FANTOM II monitor -> MON>) + MON>P 1400,23FF cr (punch/dump FANTOM II + Tiny Basic - addressrange 1400 to 23FF) + MON>P F800,FFFF cr (punch/dump monitor - addressrange F800 to FFFF) Close file in the emulator. This generated file will be appreciated very much. In case you have an eprom burner, it will be quite easier to prepare the (HEX-)dumps. At first I will recommend to check the addresses. Many, many thanks in advance for your offered help. It is NOT urgent, because I am looking now for two years to find anyone on the globe, who can help me. peter > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org]Im Auftrag > von Paul A. Pennington > Gesendet am: Montag, 19. Februar 2007 14:51 > An: sebhc at sebhc.org > Betreff: Re: [sebhc] ET/ETA-3400 ROM-Dump Help > > Peter; > > I have the 444-24 and 444-25 ROM's here, and I'd be glad to provide > dumps if you can be patient a little longer :-) > > My EPROM burner, and the ISA computer it is in, are in storage. It's > going to be a while before I get them going. If anyone else here has the > ROM dumps, step right in. > > The 444-51 number I do not recognize. My ET-3400 has a > 444-17 ROM, and > my ET-3400A has 444-76. Anyone know the answer on this? > > Paul Pennington > Augusta, Georgia > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "oe3pha" > To: > Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 3:54 AM > Subject: [sebhc] ET/ETA-3400 ROM-Dump Help > > > >I am looking about two years for the ET-3400/ETA-3400 ROM > > (444-24/444-25/444-51 > > - Monitor/Monitor II/Tiny Basic) but without success. Once I found > > someone, > > but he wanted for each of the ROMs $11,-- plus postage, which is in my > > opinion a > > lot of money!? > > I started to write down the source code of the manuals and > assembled it, > > to > > download it on a > > small homebrew developmentsystem. I had success, but some parts in the > > source > > were missing. A guy in denmark gave the missing parts. But I > still need a > > HEX- > > or BINARY dump of > > these ROMs FalconII+TinyBasic. The procedure for generating a > dump will be > > simple: > > > > Steps on the ET-3400/ETA-3400 after starting the terminalemulation and > > storage > > on the pc: > > > > + Switch on the equipment > > + RESET (message on hex-display CPU UP) > > + DO 1400 cr (start FANTOM II monitor -> MON>) > > + MON>P 1400,23FF cr (punch/dump FANTOM II + Tiny Basic - addressrange > > 1400 > > to > > 23FF) > > + MON>P F800,FFFF cr (punch/dump monitor - addressrange F800 to FFFF) > > > > I hope that someone in the group can help and supply the dumps. Many > > thanks > > in > > advance > > peter > > > > peter.hofmann at chello.at > > oe3pha at amrs.at > > > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From allard at xs4all.nl Mon Feb 19 09:47:14 2007 From: allard at xs4all.nl (Allard) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 16:47:14 +0100 (CET) Subject: [sebhc] ET-3400A Eratta Book In-Reply-To: <001301c7542d$bdfa0890$6501a8c0@A31PAUL> References: <002701c752cc$7b9707d0$6501a8c0@A31PAUL> <499cd87a2d38418566b45e32574128cf@cox.net> <001301c7542d$bdfa0890$6501a8c0@A31PAUL> Message-ID: <16663.145.33.141.67.1171900034.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.nl> Hi, Almost the same story I experienced with a Mac Portabele. The previous owner did smoke a lot and everything was browned. After "the dishwashing" it did run again :-)) Regards, Allard http://www.computermuseumgroningen.nl > Luposian; > > Great story. I'm not that desperate yet, but I may give up and stick > it > in the dishwasher someday :-) > > I'd be glad to help get you started on operating the thing. > > Email me directly. > > Paul Pennington > Augusta, Georgia > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Luposian" > To: > Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 5:12 AM > Subject: Re: [sebhc] ET-3400A Eratta Book > > >> On Feb 17, 2007, at 12:47 PM, Paul A. Pennington wrote: >> >>> I'm currently repairing one of these I just bought and thought there >>> might be something helpful in there. I see we have the ET-3400 basic >>> model in the archives but not the A model. There are significant >>> differences. I'll try to work on scanning my docs later. >> >> The ET-3400A I got was pretty dirty and all it would display is all 8's >> across the display. I tried pulling every chip and reseating them, to >> no >> avail. I finally gave up and decided to just hose it down (with a >> garden >> hose and spray nozzle) and make it a nice, CLEAN, non-working ET-3400A. >> Well, after letting it dry out a few days and making sure it was dry on >> the inside, I plugged it in and turned it on... >> >> "CPU UP" >> >> To say I was shocked (surprised, not electrocuted!), is an >> understatement. >> I was absolutely amazed! >> >> Apparently the dirty residue on the board was shorting something out. >> Just my $0.02, in case you might have a similar situation on your hands. >> Good luck getting yours working. >> >> Now, if only I could learn how to program this thing, it would actually >> WORTH something to me! Anyone got the time to teach a know-nothing like >> me how to press all these weird buttons in the right order to DO >> something >> useful with this thing? :-) I've got training books and manuals for the >> thing, but none of it makes any sense to me. I need a tutor!!! :-D >> >> Luposian >> "Sometimes a garden hose is all you need." >> >> -- >> Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From oe3pha at amrs.at Mon Feb 19 09:58:46 2007 From: oe3pha at amrs.at (oe3pha) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 16:58:46 +0100 Subject: [sebhc] KCS v0.8 - Kansas City Standard and CUTS tape decoder/encoder Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <000801c7543e$d678e060$661413ac@chello.at> All of you, who are interested to make backups of saved cassette software (H8/H88 -tape), I can recommend to use >KCS v0.8 - Kansas City Standard and CUTS tape decoder/encoder (28-Jan-06)< on the link http://dxforth.webhop.org/. The software can be free downloaded and used. NO time limit!!! The software is written and compiled under FORTH, an old but very efficient language. At first you have to digitize the tape. I used the standard windows >sound recorder< with the sampling rate of 22kHz/mono to generate the .WAV file. This file together with the software kcs08 gives you the possibilty to store all your H8/H88 cassettes on the pc AND you can run it with the H8-emulator as described/stored in www.sebhc.org. You get nostalgic feelings in running this old software on a dual-core pentium pc (hi). I stored in earlier years all cp/m software on cassette tapes with a HUG utility and had now the chance to copy it back on my pc. Derivates of this software are also available for KIM-1 owners (KIMTAPE v0.5 - tape conversion utility for KIM-1 and SYM-1 (17-May-04)). I was busy for several days to restore these backups. I was happy to see my assembler source software I had written a couple of years ago and stored on cassettes. It was a real adventure to compile this software from the cassette with the heath HASL-8 two-pass assembler !!! peter -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From paulpenn at knology.net Mon Feb 19 16:45:31 2007 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul A. Pennington) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 17:45:31 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] ET/ETA-3400 ROM-Dump Help References: <000701c75439$f20a9f80$661413ac@chello.at> Message-ID: <002e01c75477$a9574a20$6501a8c0@A31PAUL> Peter; I don't believe that is correct: my ETA-3400 expansion box has: U105 = 444-25 = Tiny BASIC U106 = 444-24 = Terminal Monitor and that agrees with the information on the schematic diagram. --Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Hofmann" To: Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 10:23 AM Subject: Re: [sebhc] ET/ETA-3400 ROM-Dump Help > Paul, > > Many thanks for your answer! Concerning the ROMs: > 444-17 ... 1KB mask programmed ROM (the very first monitor in the ET3400) > 444-76 ... 2KB NMOS 2316 ROM >don't know if monitor/expanded > monitor/tinybasic< ??? > 444-25 ... 2KB NMOS 2316 ROM terminal monitor > 444-24 ... 2KB NMOS 2316 ROM tinybasic - installed in the expansion box > ETA-3400 - U106 > 444-51 ... 2KB NMOS 2316 ROM terminal monitor FANTOM II HEATH/WINTEK - > installed in the > expansion box ETA-3400 - U105 > > The interesting address ranges are > 1400-2300H ... includes expanded monitor + tinybasic > F800-FFFFH ... standard monitor > You can check with the keys EXAMine + address the contents of the ROMs, > which should look > > 1400 ... 0F CE 10 6F 86 ... (expanded monitor) > 1C00 ... 7E 1D 00 1D E1 ... (tinybasic) > > In case you see these contents, it will be fine! > If the data pattern looks at all above mentioned addresses equal, then I > think that you will not have the expansion box. > > In case you have the expansion box, the procedure to generate the dump > will > be: > > Using a PC as terminal is the easiest way. The Windows uitility >>HYPERTERMINAL< will be quite good for a terminalemulation. With this tool > the complete dialog and also the dump command on the et3400 can be stored > in > a file. > > Steps on the ET-3400/ETA-3400 after starting the terminalemulation (speed > parameter ... should be setup before)on the pc: > > + Switch on the equipment > + RESET (message on hex-display CPU UP) > + DO 1400 cr (start FANTOM II monitor -> MON>) > + MON>P 1400,23FF cr (punch/dump FANTOM II + Tiny Basic - addressrange > 1400 > to > 23FF) > + MON>P F800,FFFF cr (punch/dump monitor - addressrange F800 to FFFF) > > Close file in the emulator. This generated file will be appreciated very > much. > > In case you have an eprom burner, it will be quite easier to prepare the > (HEX-)dumps. At first I will recommend to check the addresses. > > Many, many thanks in advance for your offered help. It is NOT urgent, > because I am looking now for two years to find anyone on the globe, who > can > help me. > > peter > > >> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org]Im Auftrag >> von Paul A. Pennington >> Gesendet am: Montag, 19. Februar 2007 14:51 >> An: sebhc at sebhc.org >> Betreff: Re: [sebhc] ET/ETA-3400 ROM-Dump Help >> >> Peter; >> >> I have the 444-24 and 444-25 ROM's here, and I'd be glad to provide >> dumps if you can be patient a little longer :-) >> >> My EPROM burner, and the ISA computer it is in, are in storage. It's >> going to be a while before I get them going. If anyone else here has the >> ROM dumps, step right in. >> >> The 444-51 number I do not recognize. My ET-3400 has a >> 444-17 ROM, and >> my ET-3400A has 444-76. Anyone know the answer on this? >> >> Paul Pennington >> Augusta, Georgia >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "oe3pha" >> To: >> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 3:54 AM >> Subject: [sebhc] ET/ETA-3400 ROM-Dump Help >> >> >> >I am looking about two years for the ET-3400/ETA-3400 ROM >> > (444-24/444-25/444-51 >> > - Monitor/Monitor II/Tiny Basic) but without success. Once I found >> > someone, >> > but he wanted for each of the ROMs $11,-- plus postage, which is in my >> > opinion a >> > lot of money!? >> > I started to write down the source code of the manuals and >> assembled it, >> > to >> > download it on a >> > small homebrew developmentsystem. I had success, but some parts in the >> > source >> > were missing. A guy in denmark gave the missing parts. But I >> still need a >> > HEX- >> > or BINARY dump of >> > these ROMs FalconII+TinyBasic. The procedure for generating a >> dump will be >> > simple: >> > >> > Steps on the ET-3400/ETA-3400 after starting the terminalemulation and >> > storage >> > on the pc: >> > >> > + Switch on the equipment >> > + RESET (message on hex-display CPU UP) >> > + DO 1400 cr (start FANTOM II monitor -> MON>) >> > + MON>P 1400,23FF cr (punch/dump FANTOM II + Tiny Basic - addressrange >> > 1400 >> > to >> > 23FF) >> > + MON>P F800,FFFF cr (punch/dump monitor - addressrange F800 to FFFF) >> > >> > I hope that someone in the group can help and supply the dumps. Many >> > thanks >> > in >> > advance >> > peter >> > >> > peter.hofmann at chello.at >> > oe3pha at amrs.at >> > >> > -- >> > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> > >> >> -- >> Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From peter.hofmann at teleweb.at Tue Feb 20 11:44:13 2007 From: peter.hofmann at teleweb.at (Peter Hofmann) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 18:44:13 +0100 Subject: [sebhc] ET/ETA-3400 ROM-Dump Help In-Reply-To: <002e01c75477$a9574a20$6501a8c0@A31PAUL> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <000601c75516$bc0600e0$661413ac@chello.at> Paul, All correct and thats really fine. Maybe that I mixed up the part-numbers, sorry in latin it means "errare humanum est" ... Paul according to your(!) spare time, I will be very surprised when you can support me with the contents of these ROMs. The easiest way will be to read them out with an eprom burner, but high ATTENTION in the right selection of the eprom-type (2316)is necessary. The other way can be as I described it in my former postings in using the built-in monitor together with a teminal-emulation on the pc. Fine and great ... All the best from Austria peter > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org]Im Auftrag > von Paul A. Pennington > Gesendet am: Montag, 19. Februar 2007 23:46 > An: sebhc at sebhc.org > Betreff: Re: [sebhc] ET/ETA-3400 ROM-Dump Help > > Peter; > > I don't believe that is correct: my ETA-3400 expansion box has: > > U105 = 444-25 = Tiny BASIC > U106 = 444-24 = Terminal Monitor > > and that agrees with the information on the schematic diagram. > > --Paul > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Hofmann" > To: > Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 10:23 AM > Subject: Re: [sebhc] ET/ETA-3400 ROM-Dump Help > > > > Paul, > > > > Many thanks for your answer! Concerning the ROMs: > > 444-17 ... 1KB mask programmed ROM (the very first monitor in > the ET3400) > > 444-76 ... 2KB NMOS 2316 ROM >don't know if monitor/expanded > > monitor/tinybasic< ??? > > 444-25 ... 2KB NMOS 2316 ROM terminal monitor > > 444-24 ... 2KB NMOS 2316 ROM tinybasic - installed in the expansion box > > ETA-3400 - U106 > > 444-51 ... 2KB NMOS 2316 ROM terminal monitor FANTOM II HEATH/WINTEK - > > installed in the > > expansion box ETA-3400 - U105 > > > > The interesting address ranges are > > 1400-2300H ... includes expanded monitor + tinybasic > > F800-FFFFH ... standard monitor > > You can check with the keys EXAMine + address the contents of the ROMs, > > which should look > > > > 1400 ... 0F CE 10 6F 86 ... (expanded monitor) > > 1C00 ... 7E 1D 00 1D E1 ... (tinybasic) > > > > In case you see these contents, it will be fine! > > If the data pattern looks at all above mentioned addresses equal, then I > > think that you will not have the expansion box. > > > > In case you have the expansion box, the procedure to generate the dump > > will > > be: > > > > Using a PC as terminal is the easiest way. The Windows uitility > >>HYPERTERMINAL< will be quite good for a terminalemulation. With > this tool > > the complete dialog and also the dump command on the et3400 can > be stored > > in > > a file. > > > > Steps on the ET-3400/ETA-3400 after starting the > terminalemulation (speed > > parameter ... should be setup before)on the pc: > > > > + Switch on the equipment > > + RESET (message on hex-display CPU UP) > > + DO 1400 cr (start FANTOM II monitor -> MON>) > > + MON>P 1400,23FF cr (punch/dump FANTOM II + Tiny Basic - addressrange > > 1400 > > to > > 23FF) > > + MON>P F800,FFFF cr (punch/dump monitor - addressrange F800 to FFFF) > > > > Close file in the emulator. This generated file will be appreciated very > > much. > > > > In case you have an eprom burner, it will be quite easier to prepare the > > (HEX-)dumps. At first I will recommend to check the addresses. > > > > Many, many thanks in advance for your offered help. It is NOT urgent, > > because I am looking now for two years to find anyone on the globe, who > > can > > help me. > > > > peter > > > > > >> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > >> Von: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org]Im Auftrag > >> von Paul A. Pennington > >> Gesendet am: Montag, 19. Februar 2007 14:51 > >> An: sebhc at sebhc.org > >> Betreff: Re: [sebhc] ET/ETA-3400 ROM-Dump Help > >> > >> Peter; > >> > >> I have the 444-24 and 444-25 ROM's here, and I'd be glad to provide > >> dumps if you can be patient a little longer :-) > >> > >> My EPROM burner, and the ISA computer it is in, are in > storage. It's > >> going to be a while before I get them going. If anyone else > here has the > >> ROM dumps, step right in. > >> > >> The 444-51 number I do not recognize. My ET-3400 has a > >> 444-17 ROM, and > >> my ET-3400A has 444-76. Anyone know the answer on this? > >> > >> Paul Pennington > >> Augusta, Georgia > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "oe3pha" > >> To: > >> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 3:54 AM > >> Subject: [sebhc] ET/ETA-3400 ROM-Dump Help > >> > >> > >> >I am looking about two years for the ET-3400/ETA-3400 ROM > >> > (444-24/444-25/444-51 > >> > - Monitor/Monitor II/Tiny Basic) but without success. Once I found > >> > someone, > >> > but he wanted for each of the ROMs $11,-- plus postage, > which is in my > >> > opinion a > >> > lot of money!? > >> > I started to write down the source code of the manuals and > >> assembled it, > >> > to > >> > download it on a > >> > small homebrew developmentsystem. I had success, but some > parts in the > >> > source > >> > were missing. A guy in denmark gave the missing parts. But I > >> still need a > >> > HEX- > >> > or BINARY dump of > >> > these ROMs FalconII+TinyBasic. The procedure for generating a > >> dump will be > >> > simple: > >> > > >> > Steps on the ET-3400/ETA-3400 after starting the > terminalemulation and > >> > storage > >> > on the pc: > >> > > >> > + Switch on the equipment > >> > + RESET (message on hex-display CPU UP) > >> > + DO 1400 cr (start FANTOM II monitor -> MON>) > >> > + MON>P 1400,23FF cr (punch/dump FANTOM II + Tiny Basic - > addressrange > >> > 1400 > >> > to > >> > 23FF) > >> > + MON>P F800,FFFF cr (punch/dump monitor - addressrange F800 to FFFF) > >> > > >> > I hope that someone in the group can help and supply the dumps. Many > >> > thanks > >> > in > >> > advance > >> > peter > >> > > >> > peter.hofmann at chello.at > >> > oe3pha at amrs.at > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > >> > > >> > >> -- > >> Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > >> > > > > -- > > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From paulpenn at knology.net Wed Feb 21 10:32:39 2007 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul A. Pennington) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 11:32:39 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] ET-3400A Eratta Book References: <000901c752ff$dbf73d60$6500a8c0@barry> <15EAC58B-6A78-469C-B594-26806E5A5B06@neurotica.com> Message-ID: <001701c755d5$e6f37b60$6501a8c0@A31PAUL> The auction for the subject book ended last night with only one bidder. I contacted the seller after the close and he agreed to send a copy of the 7 pages. I'll see it gets into the archive. Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From paulpenn at knology.net Wed Feb 21 10:49:25 2007 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul A. Pennington) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 11:49:25 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] ET/ETA-3400 ROM-Dump Help References: <000701c75439$f20a9f80$661413ac@chello.at> Message-ID: <002a01c755d8$3ebba410$6501a8c0@A31PAUL> Peter; A comment and a question: > 444-76 ... 2KB NMOS 2316 ROM > don't know if monitor/expanded monitor/tinybasic ??? This is the monitor in the ET-3400A model. You are correct that it's in a 2KB ROM with different pinouts than the 444-76, but I believe the code is the same, only 1K. They must move the code up so it ends at FFFF, leaving 1 KB blank at the beginning. I don't know for sure because my ET-3400A doesn't work yet :-( > 444-51 ... 2KB NMOS 2316 ROM terminal monitor FANTOM II > HEATH/WINTEK - installed in the expansion box ETA-3400 - U105 So you're saying this replaces the standard terminal monitor 444-25 in the expansion interface? Was it included with the interface or sold separately as an option? Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From peter.hofmann at teleweb.at Wed Feb 21 12:24:05 2007 From: peter.hofmann at teleweb.at (Peter Hofmann) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 19:24:05 +0100 Subject: AW: [sebhc] ET/ETA-3400 ROM-Dump Help In-Reply-To: <002a01c755d8$3ebba410$6501a8c0@A31PAUL> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <000401c755e5$782f8380$661413ac@chello.at> Paul, Ok. You have two monitor roms: one in the standard et-3400/et-3400a and an additional one in the expansion box eta-3400. --> The monitor in the "base unit" contains the main interrupt vectors (RESET handler, hard- and software interrupt handler) and initializes the unit after power-up - it generates the "CPU UP" message on the hex-display, scans the keyboard ... its address range starts at FC00 and ends at FFFF, which is "1"KB (400H). I wrote F800 for the case, that heath/wintek has added additional routines(?). The very first ROM 444-17 was a MC6830 mask rom and later Heath used a 2316 ROM (its an eprom without a uv-window and has 2KB)? --> The monitor in the "expansion unit" is used mainly for RS-232 and tape storage support. Its starting address is 1400 and thats the reason why you have to start it explicitly with "DO 1400". In case you have connected a pc to the rs-232 and the parameters (speed,start,stop) are set correctly, you will see in the terminalemulation the monitor message "MON>". This monitor is 2KB (800H) long and lies in the address-range 1400-1BFF. At address 1C00 the TinyBasic ROM starts and is also 2KB (800H) long. It fills the range 1C00-23FF. Thats the reason for my interest in the address-range 1400-23FFH. As you wrote in the former postings the 2 ROMs(444-24/444-25) are the additionals to the base unit for RS-232/tape and TinyBasic support. Which function the ROM 444-76 fullfills, I don't know. But never mind ... usually the part-numbers also "coded in the ROMs" ... I will have to read the dump and will reverse engineer the dump ... then I will be able to give you more detailed information ... I have expressed it wrong (>NOT replace<) - all THREE ROMs are needed !!! The small 1KB is essential for power-up (shows the power-up message "CPU UP") and the two others 2KB for RS232/tape/Basic. You should experiment with it. Connecting the pc + terminal emulation - its a great event, when you see MON> on the pc-screen. In case you want more detailed information, should I send it to your email-address, because I don't know, if the friends in this newsgroup are interested in it? peter, oe3pha Vienna, Austria > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org]Im Auftrag > von Paul A. Pennington > Gesendet am: Mittwoch, 21. Februar 2007 17:49 > An: sebhc at sebhc.org > Betreff: Re: [sebhc] ET/ETA-3400 ROM-Dump Help > > Peter; > > A comment and a question: > > > 444-76 ... 2KB NMOS 2316 ROM > > don't know if monitor/expanded monitor/tinybasic ??? > > This is the monitor in the ET-3400A model. You are correct > that it's in > a 2KB ROM with different pinouts than the 444-76, but I believe > the code is > the same, only 1K. They must move the code up so it ends at > FFFF, leaving 1 > KB blank at the beginning. I don't know for sure because my ET-3400A > doesn't work yet :-( > > > 444-51 ... 2KB NMOS 2316 ROM terminal monitor FANTOM II > > HEATH/WINTEK - installed in the expansion box ETA-3400 - U105 > > So you're saying this replaces the standard terminal monitor > 444-25 in > the expansion interface? Was it included with the interface or sold > separately as an option? > > Paul Pennington > Augusta, Georgia > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From paulpenn at knology.net Mon Feb 26 20:24:49 2007 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul A. Pennington) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 21:24:49 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] ET-3400A Repaired References: <000401c755e5$782f8380$661413ac@chello.at> Message-ID: <006b01c75a16$74b640b0$6501a8c0@A31PAUL> I thought I would let everyone know what I finally found was wrong with my ET-3400A, in case anyone else runs into it. There were contact problems from oxidation on the chips and sockets as some have suggested, but the main problem was the two 2114 memory chips. I finally tried two different chips and everything started working. I had tested the memory early on by plugging it into my ET-3400, where it worked. But, the clock is much slower there. I don't know if the chips that came with the ET-3400A are too fast or too slow, but they don't work. A quick search on Google showed 250 nS for the bad boys and 450 nS for the ones that worked. Also, I cleaned the sockets with Caig "DeoxIT" and a toothpick, and then sprayed them with "ProGold". I also scraped the inside of the chip legs with a small screwdriver. Anyway, everything works reliably now. That was a tough one. At least, I dusted off my test equipment and got my IC tester and EPROM reader/programmer working again. Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From peter at peternelson.com Tue Feb 27 08:24:26 2007 From: peter at peternelson.com (peter b. nelson) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 09:24:26 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] ET-3400A Repaired In-Reply-To: <006b01c75a16$74b640b0$6501a8c0@A31PAUL> References: <000401c755e5$782f8380$661413ac@chello.at> <006b01c75a16$74b640b0$6501a8c0@A31PAUL> Message-ID: <45E43F1A.7080503@peternelson.com> Paul, Thanks for the updates. I subscribed to this list after buying an old ET3400A, and it's been nice to read some relevant postings lately. My own recent "repair" issue was this: after not using the ET3400A for several months, I went to demo it to my brother-in-law, and naturally it didn't work. It seemed to be resetting itself 100 times/second -- all it showed was a flickering "CPU UP". Slapping it down, hard, on the table seemed to stabilize it enough to demo, but it still did an auto-reset every ten minutes, erasing my program and displaying "CPU UP". Fortunately, removing and re-seating all the chips solved the problem. It's currently at about two weeks uptime, with no issues. Yours Truly Peter Nelson Paul A. Pennington wrote: > I thought I would let everyone know what I finally found was wrong > with my > ET-3400A, in case anyone else runs into it. There were contact > problems from oxidation on the chips and sockets as some have > suggested, but the main problem was the two 2114 memory chips. I > finally tried two different chips and everything started working. > > I had tested the memory early on by plugging it into my ET-3400, where > it worked. But, the clock is much slower there. I don't know if the > chips > that came with the ET-3400A are too fast or too slow, but they don't > work. > A quick search on Google showed 250 nS for the bad boys and 450 nS for > the > ones that worked. > > Also, I cleaned the sockets with Caig "DeoxIT" and a toothpick, and > then > sprayed them with "ProGold". I also scraped the inside of the chip legs > with a small screwdriver. > > Anyway, everything works reliably now. That was a tough one. At > least, I dusted off my test equipment and got my IC tester and EPROM > reader/programmer working again. > > Paul Pennington > Augusta, Georgia > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From oe3pha at amrs.at Wed Feb 28 04:30:30 2007 From: oe3pha at amrs.at (oe3pha) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 11:30:30 +0100 Subject: [sebhc] ET/ETA-3400 ROMs - source code Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <000201c75b23$784acee0$661413ac@chello.at> Paul, Many thanks for the binaries of the ROMs. For two of them I have already created commented source files, which can be easily compiled i.e. with the AS0 (=6800 assembler). The third ROM (=TinyBasic) needs a little time for creating the comments to the statement lines. The ROM 444-76 is the standard ROM of the ET-3400. The only difference seems to be the ROM type and the ROM size. peter (oe3pha) -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List