From fjm_1948 at yahoo.com Wed May 2 09:17:15 2007 From: fjm_1948 at yahoo.com (Frank Madis) Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 07:17:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] Program to convert hex records to "tape" files In-Reply-To: <200705010056.l410u2Zm019258@hosting.monisys.ca> Message-ID: <134280.79176.qm@web33612.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.00 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message Dave, Thanks for the additional information. H8t.com is a very handy tool, a great time saver. The communication feature for direct uploading of *.hex files is an especially useful capability, Regards, Frank Dave Dunfield wrote: > I would like to use the LOAD capability of the PAM8 on my H8 to upload programs that I have > developed on my PC. After looking through the sebhc directories, I found the file "h8t.com" which > looks promising. But, I did not see any documentation for this program. > > What I am hoping to accomplish is to convert an Intel Hex file (or S-Record) into a *.h8t file. I > will use the RS-232 port rather than the audio interface to upload the files. > > Please let me know whether "h8t.com" will do what I want and where I may get instructions for its > use. Otherwise, does anyone know of another program that do what I need? > > Thanks and best regards, I am the author of H8T - it pretty much documents itself if you type H8T with no option (full screen full of help). H8T uses the extension of the files you specify to determine what kind of conversion to do .HEX is for HEX format (either Intel or Motorola when reading - Motorola output unless /I is used), .BIN means a raw binary file, and .H8T means an H8 Tape image format file. Addiitonally, you can use COMn: to access a COM port, so, as provided in examples for the H8T help output, you can do things like: H8T myprog.h8t com1: <- Load .H8T file into H8 at 9600bps H8T data.hex com2:1200 <- Load .HEX file into H8 as 1200bps H8T prog.bin prog.h8t A=3000 <- Translate .BIN file into .H8T at 3000 H8T com1: saveprog.h8t <- Download from H8 and save as .H8T To show your specific request as examples: H8T myprog.hex myprog.h8t <- Convert Intel format file to .H8T H8T myprog.h8t COM1: <- Upload myprog.h8t to H8 via com1 H8T myprog.hex COM1: <- You can upload directly from .HEX as well The latest H8T.COM can be found with my H8 simulator on my site. As far as documentation goes, there's a small reference in the README, and the command help output. If you need further clairification, please contact me with your questions. Regards, Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From whipaway at yahoo.com Wed May 2 20:58:11 2007 From: whipaway at yahoo.com (Whipaway) Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 18:58:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] ET-3400 : 8K 'RAM' upgrade Message-ID: <64366.8196.qm@web60815.mail.yahoo.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.00 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message If anyone wants to upgrade the memory on their ET-3400/A to 8K, look here: http://timothyweber.org/et3400eeprom I built this using a Xicor X2864AP EEPROM , and it works great! --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Thu May 10 19:30:24 2007 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 20:30:24 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H90 Message-ID: <4643B920.70606@sc.rr.com> Does anyone have any troubleshooting experience on Heathkit H89? I bought 2 (neither will work) hoping to be able to repair and keep at least one. I've swapped the terminal logic board with the one in my H19 terminal, so I know the TLB is ok. The CPU board had several blown tantalum caps, and I've replaced those. All the voltages check out ok with little to no ac ripple. With a scope, I can see activity on the address and data lines but I still get no display on the CRT (except the blinking cursor). The TLB does give 1 beep when the power is turned on. (The same thing my H19 does) It's difficult to troubleshoot when the only thing visible is suppossed to be on the CRT screen. I suppose it could be in the serial port interface. Anyone else have any ideas? Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From garlanger at gmail.com Thu May 10 22:02:54 2007 From: garlanger at gmail.com (Mark Garlanger) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 22:02:54 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <4643B920.70606@sc.rr.com> References: <4643B920.70606@sc.rr.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <704e82240705102002g32b903e6kadd2db1776557a75@mail.gmail.com> Hi Carroll, I have a copy of the Operation/Service Manual for the WH89 that I can let you borrow. Unfortunately, since I'm getting ready to move to Austin for a new job, it has been packed away in a box. It may be a while before I'll be able to send it. We still have to sell our house and buy one in Austin. I also have a TON of spare hardware, so once I do get settled in Austin, and depending on the issue, I may have a replacement part I could send you. Mark On 5/10/07, Carroll Waddell wrote: > Does anyone have any troubleshooting experience on Heathkit H89? I > bought 2 (neither will work) hoping to be able to repair and keep at > least one. > I've swapped the terminal logic board with the one in my H19 terminal, > so I know the TLB is ok. The CPU board had several blown tantalum caps, > and I've replaced those. All the voltages check out ok with little to no > ac ripple. With a scope, I can see activity on the address and data > lines but I still get no display on the CRT (except the blinking > cursor). The TLB does give 1 beep when the power is turned on. (The same > thing my H19 does) > It's difficult to troubleshoot when the only thing visible is suppossed > to be on the CRT screen. > > I suppose it could be in the serial port interface. > > Anyone else have any ideas? > > Carroll > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From robin.england at dial.pipex.com Fri May 11 02:58:08 2007 From: robin.england at dial.pipex.com (Robin England) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 08:58:08 +0100 Subject: [sebhc] H90 References: <4643B920.70606@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <005601c793a2$1dff8ae0$1afea8c0@xpsm1210> Hi Carroll Bearing in mind the blown caps I would go straight for the ROM(s) on the CPU board. The earlier TI chips were always quite vulnerable to a bad +5 supply. Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carroll Waddell" To: Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 1:30 AM Subject: [sebhc] H90 > Does anyone have any troubleshooting experience on Heathkit H89? I bought > 2 (neither will work) hoping to be able to repair and keep at least one. > I've swapped the terminal logic board with the one in my H19 terminal, so > I know the TLB is ok. The CPU board had several blown tantalum caps, and > I've replaced those. All the voltages check out ok with little to no ac > ripple. With a scope, I can see activity on the address and data lines but > I still get no display on the CRT (except the blinking cursor). The TLB > does give 1 beep when the power is turned on. (The same thing my H19 does) > It's difficult to troubleshoot when the only thing visible is suppossed to > be on the CRT screen. > > I suppose it could be in the serial port interface. > > Anyone else have any ideas? > > Carroll > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Fri May 11 08:19:39 2007 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 09:19:39 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <704e82240705102002g32b903e6kadd2db1776557a75@mail.gmail.com> References: <4643B920.70606@sc.rr.com> <704e82240705102002g32b903e6kadd2db1776557a75@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46446D6B.4050908@sc.rr.com> Mark Garlanger wrote: > Hi Carroll, > > I have a copy of the Operation/Service Manual for the WH89 that I > can let you borrow. Unfortunately, since I'm getting ready to move to > Austin for a new job, it has been packed away in a box. It may be a > while before I'll be able to send it. We still have to sell our house > and buy one in Austin. I also have a TON of spare hardware, so once I > do get settled in Austin, and depending on the issue, I may have a > replacement part I could send you. > > Mark > > On 5/10/07, Carroll Waddell wrote: > >> Does anyone have any troubleshooting experience on Heathkit H89? I >> bought 2 (neither will work) hoping to be able to repair and keep at >> least one. >> I've swapped the terminal logic board with the one in my H19 terminal, >> so I know the TLB is ok. The CPU board had several blown tantalum caps, >> and I've replaced those. All the voltages check out ok with little to no >> ac ripple. With a scope, I can see activity on the address and data >> lines but I still get no display on the CRT (except the blinking >> cursor). The TLB does give 1 beep when the power is turned on. (The same >> thing my H19 does) >> It's difficult to troubleshoot when the only thing visible is suppossed >> to be on the CRT screen. >> >> I suppose it could be in the serial port interface. >> >> Anyone else have any ideas? >> >> Carroll >> -- >> Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > I have a lot of manuals for the H89, but no spare parts. Robin suggested the ROMS. I can try to read them with my EPROM programmer. Today, I'm going to try to see if I can see the 2msec clock interrupt being serviced. Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Fri May 11 01:01:44 2007 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 01:01:44 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <005601c793a2$1dff8ae0$1afea8c0@xpsm1210> References: <4643B920.70606@sc.rr.com> <005601c793a2$1dff8ae0$1afea8c0@xpsm1210> Message-ID: <464406C8.6030707@earthlink.net> Robin England wrote: > Hi Carroll > > Bearing in mind the blown caps I would go straight for the ROM(s) on the > CPU board. The earlier TI chips were always quite vulnerable to a bad +5 > supply. I find that blown tantalum caps usually means that someone plugged in one of the I/O board up/down off by a pin. This can also blow one of the on-board regulators (the -12v and -5v ones seem most vulnerable). So, replace the capacitors and check the voltages from the regulators along the top of the board to be sure they are all working. I would get the CPU board working by itself, without any memory or I/O boards to confuse things. You'll have to set the DIP switches accordingly. If you had a Z89-37 or other disk controller with dangling cables to the CPU board, you'll have to pull that cable and replace the missing chips on the CPU board for it to work without that disk controller. Likewise, if you remove an expansion memory memory board, you'll have to remove its flat cable and re-install the missing chip where it plugs into the CPU board. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Fri May 11 14:45:29 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 15:45:29 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <464406C8.6030707@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000c01c79404$ee48b1b0$6500a8c0@barry> While plugging in a connector wrong is certainly possible, Tantalum caps will also blow after prolonged periods of storage if the slightest bit of humidity got into the capacitor. I've had it happen to boards dozens of times, very common. Barry Watzman Watzman at neo.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 2:02 AM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] H90 Robin England wrote: > Hi Carroll > > Bearing in mind the blown caps I would go straight for the ROM(s) on the > CPU board. The earlier TI chips were always quite vulnerable to a bad +5 > supply. I find that blown tantalum caps usually means that someone plugged in one of the I/O board up/down off by a pin. This can also blow one of the on-board regulators (the -12v and -5v ones seem most vulnerable). So, replace the capacitors and check the voltages from the regulators along the top of the board to be sure they are all working. I would get the CPU board working by itself, without any memory or I/O boards to confuse things. You'll have to set the DIP switches accordingly. If you had a Z89-37 or other disk controller with dangling cables to the CPU board, you'll have to pull that cable and replace the missing chips on the CPU board for it to work without that disk controller. Likewise, if you remove an expansion memory memory board, you'll have to remove its flat cable and re-install the missing chip where it plugs into the CPU board. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Fri May 11 15:24:37 2007 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 16:24:37 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <464406C8.6030707@earthlink.net> References: <4643B920.70606@sc.rr.com> <005601c793a2$1dff8ae0$1afea8c0@xpsm1210> <464406C8.6030707@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4644D105.7090300@sc.rr.com> Lee Hart wrote: > Robin England wrote: > >> Hi Carroll >> >> Bearing in mind the blown caps I would go straight for the ROM(s) on >> the CPU board. The earlier TI chips were always quite vulnerable to a >> bad +5 supply. > > > I find that blown tantalum caps usually means that someone plugged in > one of the I/O board up/down off by a pin. This can also blow one of > the on-board regulators (the -12v and -5v ones seem most vulnerable). > > So, replace the capacitors and check the voltages from the regulators > along the top of the board to be sure they are all working. > > I would get the CPU board working by itself, without any memory or I/O > boards to confuse things. You'll have to set the DIP switches > accordingly. If you had a Z89-37 or other disk controller with > dangling cables to the CPU board, you'll have to pull that cable and > replace the missing chips on the CPU board for it to work without that > disk controller. > > Likewise, if you remove an expansion memory memory board, you'll have > to remove its flat cable and re-install the missing chip where it > plugs into the CPU board. > My current situation is this. I'm using different parts from the 2 CPU boards I have. I currently have only the CPU board with 48K RAM on it. No expansion boards. One of the boards had a bad Z80. Swapped the Z80 (By the way, I'm only trying to get 1 board working). Now the address, memory refresh, and M1 lines are pulsing where they were dead with the other Z80. However looking at the 8 data lines, only 2 of them are pulsing from 0 to 5 volts. The other 6 only change from 0 volts to about 2 volts. Not sure yet if something is loading them down. All the voltages on the board are correct. I swapped the ROM chips that were the same from the other board, - no change in symptoms. I'll keep looking, and thanks for the advice. Keep it coming. This board is hard to troubleshoot because it's so hard to get to in the machine. Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Fri May 11 22:24:15 2007 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 23:24:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [sebhc] H90 Message-ID: <15126023.1178940255323.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Carroll Waddell > This board is hard to troubleshoot because it's so hard to get > to in the machine. Ah, you do not know the secret! Tape a piece of nonconducting wood, foam or rubber along the top edge of the CRT (to prevent shorts). Install the CPU board horizontally, so its lower edge sits on top of this insulator. The two screws that normally mount the CPU board still go in the vertical brackets. You'll find that the cables are barely long enough so with careful routing you can still plug them in. Now you can easily get at both sides of the board to probe things, change parts, etc. -- I would not waste my life in friction when it could be turned into momentum. -- Frances Willard -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From whipaway at yahoo.com Sat May 12 16:07:37 2007 From: whipaway at yahoo.com (Whipaway) Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 14:07:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] ET-3400A schematic needed Message-ID: <493274.48180.qm@web60825.mail.yahoo.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.00 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message Hello to All on the list, I need the schematic for the ET-3400A, which is different from the original ET-3400, which I already have. I have an ET-3400 that does not have the MCM6830A ROM. I have a ET-3400A that uses the 8316 ROM and one that uses a 2716 EPROM, which are interchangable. I want to create an interface circuit that will allow me to use a 2716 EPROM in the ET-3400. A schematic for the ET3400A will really be appreciated. Thanks in advance Paul Kowal whipaway at yahoo.com --------------------------------- Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Sat May 12 17:54:13 2007 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 18:54:13 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <15126023.1178940255323.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <15126023.1178940255323.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <46464595.5040607@sc.rr.com> Lee Hart wrote: >From: Carroll Waddell > > >>This board is hard to troubleshoot because it's so hard to get >>to in the machine. >> >> > >Ah, you do not know the secret! > >Tape a piece of nonconducting wood, foam or rubber along the top edge of the CRT (to prevent shorts). Install the CPU board horizontally, so its lower edge sits on top of this insulator. The two screws that normally mount the CPU board still go in the vertical brackets. > >You'll find that the cables are barely long enough so with careful routing you can still plug them in. Now you can easily get at both sides of the board to probe things, change parts, etc. > >-- >I would not waste my life in friction when it could be turned into momentum. -- Frances Willard >-- >Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > Thanks Lee. I'm glad to know to turn the CPU board around. I now have the CPU board and memory expansion board working. Will try diskette adapter and serial adapter next week. Thanks again. Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From nj7p at nj7p.org Sat May 12 20:02:54 2007 From: nj7p at nj7p.org (Bill Beech (NJ7P)) Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 18:02:54 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <46464595.5040607@sc.rr.com> References: <15126023.1178940255323.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <46464595.5040607@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <464663BE.9020408@nj7p.org> I am trying to repair an H8 computer. I have downloaded the manuals, but there is only a schematic for the cassette interface. I suspect the schematics were part of the larger foldouts for the boards. Anyone got the schematic scanned in for the CPU, Memory and Disk controller cards? Thanks! Bill Carroll Waddell wrote: > Lee Hart wrote: > >> From: Carroll Waddell >> >> >>> This board is hard to troubleshoot because it's so hard to get >>> to in the machine. >>> >> >> >> Ah, you do not know the secret! >> >> Tape a piece of nonconducting wood, foam or rubber along the top edge >> of the CRT (to prevent shorts). Install the CPU board horizontally, >> so its lower edge sits on top of this insulator. The two screws that >> normally mount the CPU board still go in the vertical brackets. >> >> You'll find that the cables are barely long enough so with careful >> routing you can still plug them in. Now you can easily get at both >> sides of the board to probe things, change parts, etc. >> >> -- >> I would not waste my life in friction when it could be turned into >> momentum. -- Frances Willard >> -- >> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net >> -- >> Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> >> >> > Thanks Lee. I'm glad to know to turn the CPU board around. I now have > the CPU board and memory expansion board working. Will try diskette > adapter and serial adapter next week. Thanks again. > Carroll > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Sat May 12 20:38:34 2007 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 21:38:34 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <464663BE.9020408@nj7p.org> References: <15126023.1178940255323.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <46464595.5040607@sc.rr.com> <464663BE.9020408@nj7p.org> Message-ID: <46466C1A.7040608@sc.rr.com> Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote: > I am trying to repair an H8 computer. I have downloaded the manuals, > but there is only a schematic for the cassette interface. I suspect > the schematics were part of the larger foldouts for the boards. > > Anyone got the schematic scanned in for the CPU, Memory and Disk > controller cards? > > Thanks! > > Bill > > Carroll Waddell wrote: > >> Lee Hart wrote: >> >>> From: Carroll Waddell >>> >>> >>>> This board is hard to troubleshoot because it's so hard to get >>>> to in the machine. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Ah, you do not know the secret! >>> >>> Tape a piece of nonconducting wood, foam or rubber along the top >>> edge of the CRT (to prevent shorts). Install the CPU board >>> horizontally, so its lower edge sits on top of this insulator. The >>> two screws that normally mount the CPU board still go in the >>> vertical brackets. >>> >>> You'll find that the cables are barely long enough so with careful >>> routing you can still plug them in. Now you can easily get at both >>> sides of the board to probe things, change parts, etc. >>> >>> -- >>> I would not waste my life in friction when it could be turned into >>> momentum. -- Frances Willard >>> -- >>> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net >>> -- >>> Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >>> >>> >>> >> Thanks Lee. I'm glad to know to turn the CPU board around. I now have >> the CPU board and memory expansion board working. Will try diskette >> adapter and serial adapter next week. Thanks again. >> Carroll >> -- >> Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> >> > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > Bill, If you don't find your schematics, I'll look next week and see what I have. I just finished repairing an H8 to put on EBAY, so I'm sure I have those things lying around somewhere. I'll copy them for you next week and mail them to you. Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From nj7p at nj7p.org Sat May 12 22:21:45 2007 From: nj7p at nj7p.org (Bill Beech (NJ7P)) Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 20:21:45 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Re: H8 Schematics In-Reply-To: <46466C1A.7040608@sc.rr.com> References: <15126023.1178940255323.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <46464595.5040607@sc.rr.com> <464663BE.9020408@nj7p.org> <46466C1A.7040608@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <46468449.8060109@nj7p.org> Carroll, Thanks! I really want to get this thing working again. Bill Carroll Waddell wrote: > Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote: > >> I am trying to repair an H8 computer. I have downloaded the manuals, >> but there is only a schematic for the cassette interface. I suspect >> the schematics were part of the larger foldouts for the boards. >> >> Anyone got the schematic scanned in for the CPU, Memory and Disk >> controller cards? >> >> Thanks! >> >> Bill >> >> Carroll Waddell wrote: > > Bill, > If you don't find your schematics, I'll look next week and see what I > have. I just finished repairing an H8 to put on EBAY, so I'm sure I > have those things lying around somewhere. I'll copy them for you next > week and mail them to you. > Carroll > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Sat May 12 09:37:56 2007 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 09:37:56 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <464663BE.9020408@nj7p.org> References: <15126023.1178940255323.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <46464595.5040607@sc.rr.com> <464663BE.9020408@nj7p.org> Message-ID: <4645D144.7090805@earthlink.net> Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote: > I am trying to repair an H8 computer. I have downloaded the manuals, > but there is only a schematic for the cassette interface. I suspect the > schematics were part of the larger foldouts for the boards. > > Anyone got the schematic scanned in for the CPU, Memory and Disk > controller cards? I have paper copies, and they are indeed on very large sheets of paper that came separately from the manuals. But I don't have a scanner. Maybe someone else somewhere has scanned them and put them online? -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Sun May 13 07:51:42 2007 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 07:51:42 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <4645D144.7090805@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <002301c7955d$750e3130$176fa8c0@obie> nly a schematic for the cassette interface. > I suspect the > > schematics were part of the larger foldouts for the boards. > > > > Anyone got the schematic scanned in for the CPU, Memory and Disk > > controller cards? > > I have paper copies, and they are indeed on very large sheets > of paper > that came separately from the manuals. But I don't have a > scanner. Maybe > someone else somewhere has scanned them and put them online? This has always been a problem - some people have done sectional scans and then "stitched" the pages together with software but you still have the problem of trying to print them back out if you want a hard copy. Barry, did you ever find a decent way to deal with the larger drawings and prints? Jack No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/801 - Release Date: 5/12/2007 6:40 PM -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sun May 13 09:29:20 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 10:29:20 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <002301c7955d$750e3130$176fa8c0@obie> Message-ID: <003801c7956b$18e8fcb0$6500a8c0@barry> Someone I was in contact with at the time had access to a large document scanner at a University and was able to scan the Z-100 schematics "full size" (I believe it was Richard Pestinger, but I'm not certain of that). I'd love to get my hands on a large format scanner, but they are expensive and hard to come by. The number of times when I need to scan something larger than 8.5 x 11", or even larger than 11x17 is surprising, although it's not an "everyday" thing by any means. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Jack Rubin Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 8:52 AM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: RE: [sebhc] H90 nly a schematic for the cassette interface. > I suspect the > > schematics were part of the larger foldouts for the boards. > > > > Anyone got the schematic scanned in for the CPU, Memory and Disk > > controller cards? > > I have paper copies, and they are indeed on very large sheets > of paper > that came separately from the manuals. But I don't have a > scanner. Maybe > someone else somewhere has scanned them and put them online? This has always been a problem - some people have done sectional scans and then "stitched" the pages together with software but you still have the problem of trying to print them back out if you want a hard copy. Barry, did you ever find a decent way to deal with the larger drawings and prints? Jack -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From nj7p at nj7p.org Sun May 13 11:41:21 2007 From: nj7p at nj7p.org (Bill Beech (NJ7P)) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 09:41:21 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <4645D144.7090805@earthlink.net> References: <15126023.1178940255323.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <46464595.5040607@sc.rr.com> <464663BE.9020408@nj7p.org> <4645D144.7090805@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <46473FB1.9060305@nj7p.org> Lee, I have the scanner. I have done the very large diagrams in some of the army manuals I am scanning in. I do these in pieces and then I use a program to merge them back together. I would be glad to scan the manuals (I do them at 600 dpi) and the foldouts. The draw back is I have to take the manuals apart and cut them to individual pages. I usually then punch holes and put them in a binder. And it takes a bit of time to clean and straighten pages. Bill Lee Hart wrote: > Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote: > >> I am trying to repair an H8 computer. I have downloaded the manuals, >> but there is only a schematic for the cassette interface. I suspect >> the schematics were part of the larger foldouts for the boards. >> >> Anyone got the schematic scanned in for the CPU, Memory and Disk >> controller cards? > > > I have paper copies, and they are indeed on very large sheets of paper > that came separately from the manuals. But I don't have a scanner. > Maybe someone else somewhere has scanned them and put them online? > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From nj7p at nj7p.org Sun May 13 11:50:04 2007 From: nj7p at nj7p.org (Bill Beech (NJ7P)) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 09:50:04 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <003801c7956b$18e8fcb0$6500a8c0@barry> References: <003801c7956b$18e8fcb0$6500a8c0@barry> Message-ID: <464741BC.40808@nj7p.org> Barry, I have some Heathkit manuals and schematics (SB-101, etc) on Richards site (also some of the military manuals I have scanned). I use an 8.5x14 scanner and stich them together. I have included the pieces as well as the fullsize illustrations in some files so one can print out the parts and tape them together. It is a pain, but the schematics are the key to repairing these old machines. I have yet to find a better solution. I, too, am looking for a large format flatbed scanner. I have tried commercial graphics houses with dismal results. But again, I would be glad to try and make these diagrams available if someone would ship me thier originals. I will return the originals after scanning. Thanks! Bill Barry Watzman wrote: >Someone I was in contact with at the time had access to a large document >scanner at a University and was able to scan the Z-100 schematics "full >size" (I believe it was Richard Pestinger, but I'm not certain of that). >I'd love to get my hands on a large format scanner, but they are expensive >and hard to come by. The number of times when I need to scan something >larger than 8.5 x 11", or even larger than 11x17 is surprising, although >it's not an "everyday" thing by any means. > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >Jack Rubin >Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 8:52 AM >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: RE: [sebhc] H90 > >nly a schematic for the cassette interface. > > >>I suspect the >> >> >>>schematics were part of the larger foldouts for the boards. >>> >>>Anyone got the schematic scanned in for the CPU, Memory and Disk >>>controller cards? >>> >>> >>I have paper copies, and they are indeed on very large sheets >>of paper >>that came separately from the manuals. But I don't have a >>scanner. Maybe >>someone else somewhere has scanned them and put them online? >> >> > >This has always been a problem - some people have done sectional scans >and then "stitched" the pages together with software but you still have >the problem of trying to print them back out if you want a hard copy. > >Barry, did you ever find a decent way to deal with the larger drawings >and prints? > >Jack > > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sun May 13 11:56:17 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 12:56:17 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <46473FB1.9060305@nj7p.org> Message-ID: <003f01c7957f$a0158aa0$6500a8c0@barry> I would suggest 300dpi unless there is some very fine, very tiny print in the documents. 600dpi is almost always overkill, and the file is 4x larger. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Bill Beech (NJ7P) Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 12:41 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] H90 Lee, I have the scanner. I have done the very large diagrams in some of the army manuals I am scanning in. I do these in pieces and then I use a program to merge them back together. I would be glad to scan the manuals (I do them at 600 dpi) and the foldouts. The draw back is I have to take the manuals apart and cut them to individual pages. I usually then punch holes and put them in a binder. And it takes a bit of time to clean and straighten pages. Bill Lee Hart wrote: > Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote: > >> I am trying to repair an H8 computer. I have downloaded the manuals, >> but there is only a schematic for the cassette interface. I suspect >> the schematics were part of the larger foldouts for the boards. >> >> Anyone got the schematic scanned in for the CPU, Memory and Disk >> controller cards? > > > I have paper copies, and they are indeed on very large sheets of paper > that came separately from the manuals. But I don't have a scanner. > Maybe someone else somewhere has scanned them and put them online? > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sun May 13 11:59:18 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 12:59:18 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <464741BC.40808@nj7p.org> Message-ID: <004001c79580$0bb9d8b0$6500a8c0@barry> The really large format scanners are not flatbed, but are sheet-fed, about 36" wide and more or less unlimited length. Mustek does make an 11.7" x 17" flatbed USB scanner that can be bought brand new for about $170. Most other large format scanners are SCSI, which is an additional issue, and many of them are thousands of dollars. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Bill Beech (NJ7P) Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 12:50 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] H90 Barry, I have some Heathkit manuals and schematics (SB-101, etc) on Richards site (also some of the military manuals I have scanned). I use an 8.5x14 scanner and stich them together. I have included the pieces as well as the fullsize illustrations in some files so one can print out the parts and tape them together. It is a pain, but the schematics are the key to repairing these old machines. I have yet to find a better solution. I, too, am looking for a large format flatbed scanner. I have tried commercial graphics houses with dismal results. But again, I would be glad to try and make these diagrams available if someone would ship me thier originals. I will return the originals after scanning. Thanks! Bill Barry Watzman wrote: >Someone I was in contact with at the time had access to a large document >scanner at a University and was able to scan the Z-100 schematics "full >size" (I believe it was Richard Pestinger, but I'm not certain of that). >I'd love to get my hands on a large format scanner, but they are expensive >and hard to come by. The number of times when I need to scan something >larger than 8.5 x 11", or even larger than 11x17 is surprising, although >it's not an "everyday" thing by any means. > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >Jack Rubin >Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 8:52 AM >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: RE: [sebhc] H90 > >nly a schematic for the cassette interface. > > >>I suspect the >> >> >>>schematics were part of the larger foldouts for the boards. >>> >>>Anyone got the schematic scanned in for the CPU, Memory and Disk >>>controller cards? >>> >>> >>I have paper copies, and they are indeed on very large sheets >>of paper >>that came separately from the manuals. But I don't have a >>scanner. Maybe >>someone else somewhere has scanned them and put them online? >> >> > >This has always been a problem - some people have done sectional scans >and then "stitched" the pages together with software but you still have >the problem of trying to print them back out if you want a hard copy. > >Barry, did you ever find a decent way to deal with the larger drawings >and prints? > >Jack > > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From nj7p at nj7p.org Sun May 13 12:04:53 2007 From: nj7p at nj7p.org (Bill Beech (NJ7P)) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 10:04:53 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <003f01c7957f$a0158aa0$6500a8c0@barry> References: <003f01c7957f$a0158aa0$6500a8c0@barry> Message-ID: <46474535.50205@nj7p.org> Yes, but in the straightning phase it cuts out some distortion. I ought to try converting them to 300 dpi after that to see what happens. Good point. Bill Barry Watzman wrote: >I would suggest 300dpi unless there is some very fine, very tiny print in >the documents. 600dpi is almost always overkill, and the file is 4x larger. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >Bill Beech (NJ7P) >Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 12:41 PM >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: Re: [sebhc] H90 > >Lee, > >I have the scanner. I have done the very large diagrams in some of the >army manuals I am scanning in. I do these in pieces and then I use a >program to merge them back together. > >I would be glad to scan the manuals (I do them at 600 dpi) and the >foldouts. The draw back is I have to take the manuals apart and cut >them to individual pages. I usually then punch holes and put them in a >binder. And it takes a bit of time to clean and straighten pages. > >Bill > > >Lee Hart wrote: > > > >>Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote: >> >> >> >>>I am trying to repair an H8 computer. I have downloaded the manuals, >>>but there is only a schematic for the cassette interface. I suspect >>>the schematics were part of the larger foldouts for the boards. >>> >>>Anyone got the schematic scanned in for the CPU, Memory and Disk >>>controller cards? >>> >>> >>I have paper copies, and they are indeed on very large sheets of paper >>that came separately from the manuals. But I don't have a scanner. >>Maybe someone else somewhere has scanned them and put them online? >> >> >> > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From nj7p at nj7p.org Sun May 13 12:15:34 2007 From: nj7p at nj7p.org (Bill Beech (NJ7P)) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 10:15:34 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <004001c79580$0bb9d8b0$6500a8c0@barry> References: <004001c79580$0bb9d8b0$6500a8c0@barry> Message-ID: <464747B6.1020700@nj7p.org> Barry, I have been looking for a flatbed. 11x17 would be great for the old army manuals. I'll look for one of those next month. I have blown my descretionary funding for this month! The sheet fed scanners seem to all have issues with scan speed causing the stretch and compression of the image. I have not been impressed with any scans I have paid to have done. Bill Barry Watzman wrote: >The really large format scanners are not flatbed, but are sheet-fed, about >36" wide and more or less unlimited length. > >Mustek does make an 11.7" x 17" flatbed USB scanner that can be bought brand >new for about $170. Most other large format scanners are SCSI, which is an >additional issue, and many of them are thousands of dollars. > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >Bill Beech (NJ7P) >Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 12:50 PM >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: Re: [sebhc] H90 > >Barry, > >I have some Heathkit manuals and schematics (SB-101, etc) on Richards >site (also some of the military manuals I have scanned). I use an >8.5x14 scanner and stich them together. I have included the pieces as >well as the fullsize illustrations in some files so one can print out >the parts and tape them together. It is a pain, but the schematics are >the key to repairing these old machines. I have yet to find a better >solution. I, too, am looking for a large format flatbed scanner. > >I have tried commercial graphics houses with dismal results. But again, >I would be glad to try and make these diagrams available if someone >would ship me thier originals. I will return the originals after scanning. > >Thanks! > >Bill > >Barry Watzman wrote: > > > >>Someone I was in contact with at the time had access to a large document >>scanner at a University and was able to scan the Z-100 schematics "full >>size" (I believe it was Richard Pestinger, but I'm not certain of that). >>I'd love to get my hands on a large format scanner, but they are expensive >>and hard to come by. The number of times when I need to scan something >>larger than 8.5 x 11", or even larger than 11x17 is surprising, although >>it's not an "everyday" thing by any means. >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >>Jack Rubin >>Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 8:52 AM >>To: sebhc at sebhc.org >>Subject: RE: [sebhc] H90 >> >>nly a schematic for the cassette interface. >> >> >> >> >>>I suspect the >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>schematics were part of the larger foldouts for the boards. >>>> >>>>Anyone got the schematic scanned in for the CPU, Memory and Disk >>>>controller cards? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>I have paper copies, and they are indeed on very large sheets >>>of paper >>>that came separately from the manuals. But I don't have a >>>scanner. Maybe >>>someone else somewhere has scanned them and put them online? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>This has always been a problem - some people have done sectional scans >>and then "stitched" the pages together with software but you still have >>the problem of trying to print them back out if you want a hard copy. >> >>Barry, did you ever find a decent way to deal with the larger drawings >>and prints? >> >>Jack >> >> >> >>-- >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> >> >> >> >> >> > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sun May 13 13:03:56 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 14:03:56 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <464747B6.1020700@nj7p.org> Message-ID: <004801c79589$137bb100$6500a8c0@barry> See this item: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220109580642 That same scanner is available just about continuously from multiple vendors. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Bill Beech (NJ7P) Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 13:16 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] H90 Barry, I have been looking for a flatbed. 11x17 would be great for the old army manuals. I'll look for one of those next month. I have blown my descretionary funding for this month! The sheet fed scanners seem to all have issues with scan speed causing the stretch and compression of the image. I have not been impressed with any scans I have paid to have done. Bill Barry Watzman wrote: >The really large format scanners are not flatbed, but are sheet-fed, about >36" wide and more or less unlimited length. > >Mustek does make an 11.7" x 17" flatbed USB scanner that can be bought brand >new for about $170. Most other large format scanners are SCSI, which is an >additional issue, and many of them are thousands of dollars. > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >Bill Beech (NJ7P) >Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 12:50 PM >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: Re: [sebhc] H90 > >Barry, > >I have some Heathkit manuals and schematics (SB-101, etc) on Richards >site (also some of the military manuals I have scanned). I use an >8.5x14 scanner and stich them together. I have included the pieces as >well as the fullsize illustrations in some files so one can print out >the parts and tape them together. It is a pain, but the schematics are >the key to repairing these old machines. I have yet to find a better >solution. I, too, am looking for a large format flatbed scanner. > >I have tried commercial graphics houses with dismal results. But again, >I would be glad to try and make these diagrams available if someone >would ship me thier originals. I will return the originals after scanning. > >Thanks! > >Bill > >Barry Watzman wrote: > > > >>Someone I was in contact with at the time had access to a large document >>scanner at a University and was able to scan the Z-100 schematics "full >>size" (I believe it was Richard Pestinger, but I'm not certain of that). >>I'd love to get my hands on a large format scanner, but they are expensive >>and hard to come by. The number of times when I need to scan something >>larger than 8.5 x 11", or even larger than 11x17 is surprising, although >>it's not an "everyday" thing by any means. >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >>Jack Rubin >>Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 8:52 AM >>To: sebhc at sebhc.org >>Subject: RE: [sebhc] H90 >> >>nly a schematic for the cassette interface. >> >> >> >> >>>I suspect the >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>schematics were part of the larger foldouts for the boards. >>>> >>>>Anyone got the schematic scanned in for the CPU, Memory and Disk >>>>controller cards? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>I have paper copies, and they are indeed on very large sheets >>>of paper >>>that came separately from the manuals. But I don't have a >>>scanner. Maybe >>>someone else somewhere has scanned them and put them online? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>This has always been a problem - some people have done sectional scans >>and then "stitched" the pages together with software but you still have >>the problem of trying to print them back out if you want a hard copy. >> >>Barry, did you ever find a decent way to deal with the larger drawings >>and prints? >> >>Jack >> >> >> >>-- >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> >> >> >> >> >> > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Sun May 13 02:45:10 2007 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 02:45:10 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <46473FB1.9060305@nj7p.org> References: <15126023.1178940255323.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <46464595.5040607@sc.rr.com> <464663BE.9020408@nj7p.org> <4645D144.7090805@earthlink.net> <46473FB1.9060305@nj7p.org> Message-ID: <4646C206.5030106@earthlink.net> Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote: > Lee, > > I have the scanner. I have done the very large diagrams in some of the > army manuals I am scanning in. I do these in pieces and then I use a > program to merge them back together. > > I would be glad to scan the manuals (I do them at 600 dpi) and the > foldouts. The draw back is I have to take the manuals apart and cut > them to individual pages. I usually then punch holes and put them in a > binder. And it takes a bit of time to clean and straighten pages. Heath manuals (including these H8 manuals) sent the schematics, wiring diagrams, and mechanical layouts as loose sheets; generally quite large. The PC board illustrations are in color; black for the foil on one side, red for the other. You won't have to take manuals apart, but would have to deal with large sheets, some in 2 colors. Is that a problem? -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From nj7p at nj7p.org Sun May 13 15:35:48 2007 From: nj7p at nj7p.org (Bill Beech (NJ7P)) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 13:35:48 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <4646C206.5030106@earthlink.net> References: <15126023.1178940255323.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <46464595.5040607@sc.rr.com> <464663BE.9020408@nj7p.org> <4645D144.7090805@earthlink.net> <46473FB1.9060305@nj7p.org> <4646C206.5030106@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <464776A4.8070704@nj7p.org> Lee, No. I think we can handle the color as grey-scale for the red/black diagrams. Everything else is B/W so we are good to go. It will just take some time to get the scanned, cleaned and merged. And I am sure there are many who could use them! Bill Lee Hart wrote: > Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote: > >> Lee, >> >> I have the scanner. I have done the very large diagrams in some of >> the army manuals I am scanning in. I do these in pieces and then I >> use a program to merge them back together. >> >> I would be glad to scan the manuals (I do them at 600 dpi) and the >> foldouts. The draw back is I have to take the manuals apart and cut >> them to individual pages. I usually then punch holes and put them in >> a binder. And it takes a bit of time to clean and straighten pages. > > > Heath manuals (including these H8 manuals) sent the schematics, wiring > diagrams, and mechanical layouts as loose sheets; generally quite > large. The PC board illustrations are in color; black for the foil on > one side, red for the other. You won't have to take manuals apart, but > would have to deal with large sheets, some in 2 colors. Is that a > problem? -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sun May 13 15:46:50 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 16:46:50 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <4646C206.5030106@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <005301c7959f$d63f2670$6500a8c0@barry> Often, if you want to use a document feeder, you do have to tear the manuals apart. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 3:45 AM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] H90 Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote: > Lee, > > I have the scanner. I have done the very large diagrams in some of the > army manuals I am scanning in. I do these in pieces and then I use a > program to merge them back together. > > I would be glad to scan the manuals (I do them at 600 dpi) and the > foldouts. The draw back is I have to take the manuals apart and cut > them to individual pages. I usually then punch holes and put them in a > binder. And it takes a bit of time to clean and straighten pages. Heath manuals (including these H8 manuals) sent the schematics, wiring diagrams, and mechanical layouts as loose sheets; generally quite large. The PC board illustrations are in color; black for the foil on one side, red for the other. You won't have to take manuals apart, but would have to deal with large sheets, some in 2 colors. Is that a problem? -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From nj7p at nj7p.org Sun May 13 16:09:28 2007 From: nj7p at nj7p.org (Bill Beech (NJ7P)) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 14:09:28 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <005301c7959f$d63f2670$6500a8c0@barry> References: <005301c7959f$d63f2670$6500a8c0@barry> Message-ID: <46477E88.1040609@nj7p.org> Barry, I use a document feeder for the regular manuals. Scanning page-by-page takes far too much time. Bill Barry Watzman wrote: >Often, if you want to use a document feeder, you do have to tear the manuals >apart. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >Lee Hart >Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 3:45 AM >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: Re: [sebhc] H90 > >Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote: > > >>Lee, >> >>I have the scanner. I have done the very large diagrams in some of the >>army manuals I am scanning in. I do these in pieces and then I use a >>program to merge them back together. >> >>I would be glad to scan the manuals (I do them at 600 dpi) and the >>foldouts. The draw back is I have to take the manuals apart and cut >>them to individual pages. I usually then punch holes and put them in a >>binder. And it takes a bit of time to clean and straighten pages. >> >> > >Heath manuals (including these H8 manuals) sent the schematics, wiring >diagrams, and mechanical layouts as loose sheets; generally quite large. >The PC board illustrations are in color; black for the foil on one side, >red for the other. You won't have to take manuals apart, but would have >to deal with large sheets, some in 2 colors. Is that a problem? > > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sun May 13 18:06:05 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 19:06:05 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <46477E88.1040609@nj7p.org> Message-ID: <005c01c795b3$48c0ada0$6500a8c0@barry> Exactly my point: There have been Heath manuals that I would liked to have scanned but did not because they were bound, and I wasn't willing to either cut them up or scan them page-by-page. But I have scanned 600 page manuals as long as I could just drop the pages into an ADF. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Bill Beech (NJ7P) Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 17:09 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] H90 Barry, I use a document feeder for the regular manuals. Scanning page-by-page takes far too much time. Bill Barry Watzman wrote: -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Sun May 13 19:18:57 2007 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 20:18:57 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H89 diskette drive Message-ID: <4647AAF1.3040605@sc.rr.com> I got my H89 CPU board repaired and working. I am having trouble with the diskette boot. When I enter B (ENTER) to boot from the primary, the drive runs for a few seconds then the screen says BOOT? I have 2 diskette adapter boards, and I've tried them both. Same thing. I've tried different drives. Same thing. I have attempted to boot both CP/M and HDOS. Same thing. I'm sure my diskettes are ok because both HDOS and CP/M boot fine on my H8. I connected my scope to the Read Data line coming from the drive. When I try to BOOT, there is activity on the READ DATA line. I checked the READ DATA going into the UART. Different drives - Different diskette adapters - Different Diskettes - Different OS's. What am I missing? I don't have much printed information about how this adapter works, and no troubleshooting procedures or waveforms that I can look at. I checked the rotational speed and it is correct. Anyone have any ideas? Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sun May 13 19:43:20 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 20:43:20 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H89 diskette drive In-Reply-To: <4647AAF1.3040605@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <006d01c795c0$defb5060$6500a8c0@barry> Which adapter? If it's a hard sectored adapter (the -17 series), the "disk controller" is just a UART. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Carroll Waddell Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 20:19 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: [sebhc] H89 diskette drive I got my H89 CPU board repaired and working. I am having trouble with the diskette boot. When I enter B (ENTER) to boot from the primary, the drive runs for a few seconds then the screen says BOOT? I have 2 diskette adapter boards, and I've tried them both. Same thing. I've tried different drives. Same thing. I have attempted to boot both CP/M and HDOS. Same thing. I'm sure my diskettes are ok because both HDOS and CP/M boot fine on my H8. I connected my scope to the Read Data line coming from the drive. When I try to BOOT, there is activity on the READ DATA line. I checked the READ DATA going into the UART. Different drives - Different diskette adapters - Different Diskettes - Different OS's. What am I missing? I don't have much printed information about how this adapter works, and no troubleshooting procedures or waveforms that I can look at. I checked the rotational speed and it is correct. Anyone have any ideas? Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From nj7p at nj7p.org Sun May 13 19:36:25 2007 From: nj7p at nj7p.org (Bill Beech (NJ7P)) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 17:36:25 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <005c01c795b3$48c0ada0$6500a8c0@barry> References: <005c01c795b3$48c0ada0$6500a8c0@barry> Message-ID: <4647AF09.7080908@nj7p.org> Barry, This is why I spend money buying old army manuals for some of the more common radios. Then I don't feel bad about sanding the binding off to feed it to the ADF. Have to make sure those lending me manuals understand that this is what is going to happen. I store the scanned manuals i own in manila envelopes. My worry is that we are loosing this stuff to landfills, etc, and it is a bit of history that needs to be preserved. That is why I have been buying old computers and trying to add them to the SIMH emulators. Problem there is dealing with a front panel like the H8 or simple memory-mapped video like the early PC's. I am currently working on an 8088 emulator to emulate my Godbout 8085/8088 machine which still works. After 20 years of storage in a garage, the 8-inch floppies are still readable! Bill Barry Watzman wrote: >Exactly my point: There have been Heath manuals that I would liked to have >scanned but did not because they were bound, and I wasn't willing to either >cut them up or scan them page-by-page. But I have scanned 600 page manuals >as long as I could just drop the pages into an ADF. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >Bill Beech (NJ7P) >Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 17:09 PM >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: Re: [sebhc] H90 > >Barry, > >I use a document feeder for the regular manuals. Scanning page-by-page >takes far too much time. > >Bill > >Barry Watzman wrote: > > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Sun May 13 20:26:27 2007 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 21:26:27 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H89 diskette drive In-Reply-To: <006d01c795c0$defb5060$6500a8c0@barry> References: <006d01c795c0$defb5060$6500a8c0@barry> Message-ID: <4647BAC3.7030603@sc.rr.com> Yes, it's the hard sector adapter. CW Barry Watzman wrote: >Which adapter? If it's a hard sectored adapter (the -17 series), the "disk >controller" is just a UART. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >Carroll Waddell >Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 20:19 PM >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: [sebhc] H89 diskette drive > >I got my H89 CPU board repaired and working. I am having trouble with >the diskette boot. When I enter B (ENTER) to boot from the primary, the >drive runs for a few seconds then the screen says BOOT? >I have 2 diskette adapter boards, and I've tried them both. Same thing. >I've tried different drives. Same thing. I have attempted to boot both >CP/M and HDOS. Same thing. I'm sure my diskettes are ok because both >HDOS and CP/M boot fine on my H8. >I connected my scope to the Read Data line coming from the drive. When I >try to BOOT, there is activity on the READ DATA line. I checked the READ >DATA going into the UART. >Different drives - Different diskette adapters - Different Diskettes - >Different OS's. What am I missing? >I don't have much printed information about how this adapter works, and >no troubleshooting procedures or waveforms that I can look at. I checked >the rotational speed and it is correct. >Anyone have any ideas? >Carroll >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sun May 13 21:04:35 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 22:04:35 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <4647AF09.7080908@nj7p.org> Message-ID: <007a01c795cc$38d6b290$6500a8c0@barry> The readability of 30 year-old floppies is one of the big surprises: They are overwhelmingly readable and useable. Surprise!! Yee-ha!! [And thank God, too .... ] -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Bill Beech (NJ7P) Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 20:36 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] H90 Barry, This is why I spend money buying old army manuals for some of the more common radios. Then I don't feel bad about sanding the binding off to feed it to the ADF. Have to make sure those lending me manuals understand that this is what is going to happen. I store the scanned manuals i own in manila envelopes. My worry is that we are loosing this stuff to landfills, etc, and it is a bit of history that needs to be preserved. That is why I have been buying old computers and trying to add them to the SIMH emulators. Problem there is dealing with a front panel like the H8 or simple memory-mapped video like the early PC's. I am currently working on an 8088 emulator to emulate my Godbout 8085/8088 machine which still works. After 20 years of storage in a garage, the 8-inch floppies are still readable! Bill Barry Watzman wrote: >Exactly my point: There have been Heath manuals that I would liked to have >scanned but did not because they were bound, and I wasn't willing to either >cut them up or scan them page-by-page. But I have scanned 600 page manuals >as long as I could just drop the pages into an ADF. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >Bill Beech (NJ7P) >Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 17:09 PM >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: Re: [sebhc] H90 > >Barry, > >I use a document feeder for the regular manuals. Scanning page-by-page >takes far too much time. > >Bill > >Barry Watzman wrote: > > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sun May 13 21:05:21 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 22:05:21 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H89 diskette drive In-Reply-To: <4647BAC3.7030603@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <007b01c795cc$53e71a70$6500a8c0@barry> It's basically just a UART and some gates. Not very complex, much of the control stuff is done in software. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Carroll Waddell Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 21:26 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] H89 diskette drive Yes, it's the hard sector adapter. CW Barry Watzman wrote: >Which adapter? If it's a hard sectored adapter (the -17 series), the "disk >controller" is just a UART. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >Carroll Waddell >Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 20:19 PM >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: [sebhc] H89 diskette drive > >I got my H89 CPU board repaired and working. I am having trouble with >the diskette boot. When I enter B (ENTER) to boot from the primary, the >drive runs for a few seconds then the screen says BOOT? >I have 2 diskette adapter boards, and I've tried them both. Same thing. >I've tried different drives. Same thing. I have attempted to boot both >CP/M and HDOS. Same thing. I'm sure my diskettes are ok because both >HDOS and CP/M boot fine on my H8. >I connected my scope to the Read Data line coming from the drive. When I >try to BOOT, there is activity on the READ DATA line. I checked the READ >DATA going into the UART. >Different drives - Different diskette adapters - Different Diskettes - >Different OS's. What am I missing? >I don't have much printed information about how this adapter works, and >no troubleshooting procedures or waveforms that I can look at. I checked >the rotational speed and it is correct. >Anyone have any ideas? >Carroll >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Sun May 13 09:19:02 2007 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 09:19:02 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H89 diskette drive In-Reply-To: <4647BAC3.7030603@sc.rr.com> References: <006d01c795c0$defb5060$6500a8c0@barry> <4647BAC3.7030603@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <46471E56.2000809@earthlink.net> Carroll Waddell wrote: > Yes, it's the hard sector adapter. OK; some things I can think of: - Is it a hard-sectored disk (11 holes around the periphery)? - Are you sure the disk is bootable? - Does the computer have at least as much memory as the program on the boot tracks expects (i.e. a CP/M boot disk configured for 64k of RAM won't boot on a machine with only 48k). - Is the H17 ROM (#444-19) installed at U520? - Is the hard-sector controller board plugged into the rightmost I/O slot? - Do you have one (and only one) resistive terminator on the disk drives? -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Sun May 13 09:06:56 2007 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 09:06:56 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <464776A4.8070704@nj7p.org> References: <15126023.1178940255323.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <46464595.5040607@sc.rr.com> <464663BE.9020408@nj7p.org> <4645D144.7090805@earthlink.net> <46473FB1.9060305@nj7p.org> <4646C206.5030106@earthlink.net> <464776A4.8070704@nj7p.org> Message-ID: <46471B80.6070309@earthlink.net> Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote: > Lee, > > No. I think we can handle the color as grey-scale for the red/black > diagrams. Everything else is B/W so we are good to go. It will just > take some time to get the scanned, cleaned and merged. And I am sure > there are many who could use them! I've tried photocopying the colored illustations, and they won't work as simple black-and-white with grey scale. You wind up not being able to tell which side of the board things are on. But, these color illustrations are the exception. Almost all other Heath documentation is simple black-and-white. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From nj7p at nj7p.org Sun May 13 21:44:20 2007 From: nj7p at nj7p.org (Bill Beech (NJ7P)) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 19:44:20 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <007a01c795cc$38d6b290$6500a8c0@barry> References: <007a01c795cc$38d6b290$6500a8c0@barry> Message-ID: <4647CD04.3060005@nj7p.org> Yes, I was suprized as I figured the heat would have gotten them. I suspect the 8-inch and even the 5-inch floppies write with a lot more current that the 3.5's. I have 5 year old 3.5's with read errors. I am still booting the CP/M system from a disk written in 1983 when I was in Korea. Bill Barry Watzman wrote: >The readability of 30 year-old floppies is one of the big surprises: They >are overwhelmingly readable and useable. Surprise!! Yee-ha!! > >[And thank God, too .... ] > > >-----Original Message----- >From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >Bill Beech (NJ7P) >Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 20:36 PM >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: Re: [sebhc] H90 > >Barry, > >This is why I spend money buying old army manuals for some of the more >common radios. Then I don't feel bad about sanding the binding off to >feed it to the ADF. Have to make sure those lending me manuals >understand that this is what is going to happen. I store the scanned >manuals i own in manila envelopes. > >My worry is that we are loosing this stuff to landfills, etc, and it is >a bit of history that needs to be preserved. That is why I have been >buying old computers and trying to add them to the SIMH emulators. >Problem there is dealing with a front panel like the H8 or simple >memory-mapped video like the early PC's. I am currently working on an >8088 emulator to emulate my Godbout 8085/8088 machine which still >works. After 20 years of storage in a garage, the 8-inch floppies are >still readable! > >Bill > >Barry Watzman wrote: > > > >>Exactly my point: There have been Heath manuals that I would liked to have >>scanned but did not because they were bound, and I wasn't willing to either >>cut them up or scan them page-by-page. But I have scanned 600 page manuals >>as long as I could just drop the pages into an ADF. >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >>Bill Beech (NJ7P) >>Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 17:09 PM >>To: sebhc at sebhc.org >>Subject: Re: [sebhc] H90 >> >>Barry, >> >>I use a document feeder for the regular manuals. Scanning page-by-page >>takes far too much time. >> >>Bill >> >>Barry Watzman wrote: >> >> >> >>-- >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> >> >> >> >> >> > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ziloo_1 at yahoo.com Mon May 14 02:08:50 2007 From: ziloo_1 at yahoo.com (ziloo ...) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 00:08:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] H89 diskette drive In-Reply-To: <4647AAF1.3040605@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <403581.70004.qm@web35707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.00 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message Carroll Waddell wrote: I got my H89 CPU board repaired and working. ... Carroll, Would you please explain what was wrong with the system and how you fixed it? It would be very educational! ziloo --------------------------------- Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Mon May 14 12:32:38 2007 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 13:32:38 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Diskette Trouble Message-ID: <46489D36.8070803@sc.rr.com> I haven't been able to find out the problem with my diskette drive yet. I feel like I have a problem with the configuration of the CPU board rather than an actual hardware problem. Let me list what I have on the CPU board. If someone has a working H89, can you look and tell me what configuration you have. Have the hard sector controller card. The diskettes I'm trying to boot (1 is CP/M and the other is HDOS) will boot fine on my H8. The CPU board is the new(er) one, part number 85-2549-1. ROMS: U518 - 444-62 (MTR89) U516 - 444-41 U520 - 444-19 U517 - 444 66 U550 - 555-61 There are disk RAM chips in U523 & 525 (2114) There is an HDOS ROM at U520 (444-19) U562 is a 74S132. I have 64K memory. (has the 16K memory expansion board) Memory test runs fine. JUMPERS: JJ501 - 1 JJ502 - 1 JJ503 - B JJ504 - 0 JJ505 - 0 JJ506 - 0 JJ507 - B DIP switch 501 is set as: POS 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 SET 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 CONDITIONS: 1. Memory test works ok 2. Rotational speed test works ok 3. When try to BOOT, drive becomes active for a few seconds then screen says BOOT? The configuration guide speaks of a WRITE PROTECT PULLUP. It says this resistor is on the hard sectored controller card. What does this do? I know on the H8 the diskette controller ROM and the diskette controller RAM chips are removed from the board when you have XCON8 ROM and 64K. Should the HDOS ROM and RAM chips be on the CPU board? Any ideas would be appreciated. Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Mon May 14 12:38:23 2007 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 13:38:23 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H89 diskette drive In-Reply-To: <403581.70004.qm@web35707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <403581.70004.qm@web35707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46489E8F.4000000@sc.rr.com> The blown caps were obvious. (Pieces of the cap everywhere). After replacing the board was still dead. Using a scope I checked for a clock pulse going to the Z80 CPU chip. I was getting a clock input, but no outputs from the Z80. Replacing the Z80 got the output lines going. I removed all the memory chips, and starting checking 16K at a time, starting at the lowest address. Got 16K to work, then removed them, and tried the next group of 8 chips. Found a couple of bad ones. That is basically all I have done up to this point. Right now, still trying to get a diskette to boot. I give a lot of credit to Lee Hart who told me how to physically locate the CPU board so I could use a scope on it. I was going nuts trying to scope the board while it was installed (so close) to the CRT high voltage. Hope this helps. Happy computing. Carroll ziloo ... wrote: > > > */Carroll Waddell /* wrote: > > I got my H89 CPU board repaired and working. ... > > Carroll, > > Would you please explain what was wrong with the system and how > you fixed it? > It would be very educational! > > ziloo > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels > in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel > > to find your fit. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From nj7p at nj7p.org Mon May 14 14:06:38 2007 From: nj7p at nj7p.org (Bill Beech (NJ7P)) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 12:06:38 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <46471B80.6070309@earthlink.net> References: <15126023.1178940255323.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <46464595.5040607@sc.rr.com> <464663BE.9020408@nj7p.org> <4645D144.7090805@earthlink.net> <46473FB1.9060305@nj7p.org> <4646C206.5030106@earthlink.net> <464776A4.8070704@nj7p.org> <46471B80.6070309@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4648B33E.5090106@nj7p.org> Lee, We might have to scan it in color, and change the red to a color that becomes a grey that is visable in the otherwise black and white. I suspect red will scan as black. Bill Lee Hart wrote: > Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote: > >> Lee, >> >> No. I think we can handle the color as grey-scale for the red/black >> diagrams. Everything else is B/W so we are good to go. It will just >> take some time to get the scanned, cleaned and merged. And I am sure >> there are many who could use them! > > > I've tried photocopying the colored illustations, and they won't work > as simple black-and-white with grey scale. You wind up not being able > to tell which side of the board things are on. > > But, these color illustrations are the exception. Almost all other > Heath documentation is simple black-and-white. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Mon May 14 15:16:32 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 16:16:32 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <4648B33E.5090106@nj7p.org> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <003d01c79664$c3d8a680$6500a8c0@barry> Why wouldn't you just scan it in color and LEAVE it in color, given that it IS a color document. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Bill Beech (NJ7P) Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 15:07 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] H90 Lee, We might have to scan it in color, and change the red to a color that becomes a grey that is visable in the otherwise black and white. I suspect red will scan as black. Bill Lee Hart wrote: > Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote: > >> Lee, >> >> No. I think we can handle the color as grey-scale for the red/black >> diagrams. Everything else is B/W so we are good to go. It will just >> take some time to get the scanned, cleaned and merged. And I am sure >> there are many who could use them! > > > I've tried photocopying the colored illustations, and they won't work > as simple black-and-white with grey scale. You wind up not being able > to tell which side of the board things are on. > > But, these color illustrations are the exception. Almost all other > Heath documentation is simple black-and-white. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Mon May 14 15:19:07 2007 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 16:19:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [sebhc] H90 Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <200705142019.QAA26944@ss10.danlan.com> I believe I still have an extra set of H8 (and possibly other) manuals that could be sliced up. Before I bought the H8 I bought the manual set Heath was offering to let you see if you really wanted the product. Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From nj7p at nj7p.org Mon May 14 15:34:14 2007 From: nj7p at nj7p.org (Bill Beech (NJ7P)) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 13:34:14 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <200705142019.QAA26944@ss10.danlan.com> References: <200705142019.QAA26944@ss10.danlan.com> Message-ID: <4648C7C6.9090607@nj7p.org> Dan, As I said before, I am willing to do the scanning and other work to make the PDFs available to the net. Especially if you understand that I need to cut them apart. Bill Dan Lanciani wrote: >I believe I still have an extra set of H8 (and possibly other) manuals >that could be sliced up. Before I bought the H8 I bought the manual set >Heath was offering to let you see if you really wanted the product. > > Dan Lanciani > ddl at danlan.*com >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From nj7p at nj7p.org Mon May 14 15:32:30 2007 From: nj7p at nj7p.org (Bill Beech (NJ7P)) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 13:32:30 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <003d01c79664$c3d8a680$6500a8c0@barry> References: <003d01c79664$c3d8a680$6500a8c0@barry> Message-ID: <4648C75E.9050707@nj7p.org> Barry, Well, duh! That would be best. Bill Barry Watzman wrote: >Why wouldn't you just scan it in color and LEAVE it in color, given that it >IS a color document. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >Bill Beech (NJ7P) >Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 15:07 PM >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: Re: [sebhc] H90 > >Lee, > >We might have to scan it in color, and change the red to a color that >becomes a grey that is visable in the otherwise black and white. I >suspect red will scan as black. > >Bill > >Lee Hart wrote: > > > >>Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote: >> >> >> >>>Lee, >>> >>>No. I think we can handle the color as grey-scale for the red/black >>>diagrams. Everything else is B/W so we are good to go. It will just >>>take some time to get the scanned, cleaned and merged. And I am sure >>>there are many who could use them! >>> >>> >>I've tried photocopying the colored illustations, and they won't work >>as simple black-and-white with grey scale. You wind up not being able >>to tell which side of the board things are on. >> >>But, these color illustrations are the exception. Almost all other >>Heath documentation is simple black-and-white. >> >> > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ziloo_1 at yahoo.com Tue May 15 10:30:26 2007 From: ziloo_1 at yahoo.com (ziloo ...) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 08:30:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] Graphics Card Message-ID: <641501.48279.qm@web35711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.00 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.94 HTML_10_20 BODY: Message is 10% to 20% HTML When collecting bite and pieces of information about H-89 on the net, I came across this note from some folks: ***************************************************************************************************** "The base H-89 had no graphic modes, just 33 graphic characters. At least two different add-on boards were created that gave the H-89 bitmapped graphics capabilities, but I'm pretty sure they both required hardware modifications to tie them in to the terminal board - this was not a simple plug-in expansion card." ... "There's a 3rd party graphics board fitted on top of the CRT (seriously). It links into the PSU/video cableform from the Terminal logic board to the monitor, and also into 8 of the RAM chip sockets on the CPU board. The RAMs you pull to plug in the cables go into the graphics board, which contains another 16K of RAM as a bitmapped display buffer." ... "OK, the manual says 'Micronex Pixelplotter Graphics on the Z89/RFI computer'. It also says 'Micronex Limited, Harford Square, Chew Magna, Bristol, England'. I've got the installation instructions and memory maps. The thing contains 16K of RAM which is bank-switched with 16K of the normal memory. I think my board uses port F2H, bit 3 to select the new 16K, but I'm not absolutely sure." ... *************************************************************************************************** Has any of our SEBHC folks been familiar with any graphics add-on feature for H-89 system? ziloo --------------------------------- Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Watzman at neo.rr.com Tue May 15 11:15:36 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 12:15:36 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Graphics Card In-Reply-To: <641501.48279.qm@web35711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.40 BSF_SC0_SA085b URI: Custom Rule SA085b 0.00 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message Message-ID: <005a01c7970c$45e07c50$6500a8c0@barry> Heath seriously investigated offering a full graphics version of the H-19 terminal (would presumably have worked with the H89 as well), but we did not pursue it (kind of over my objections). There was an outside 3rd party design firm in Calif. that wanted to do it, and I felt that the costs were reasonable, but the rest of management felt that the cost was too high and the market too small. Barry Watzman Watzman at neo.rr.com _____ From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of ziloo ... Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 11:30 AM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: [sebhc] Graphics Card When collecting bite and pieces of information about H-89 on the net, I came across this note from some folks: **************************************************************************** ************************* "The base H-89 had no graphic modes, just 33 graphic characters. At least two different add-on boards were created that gave the H-89 bitmapped graphics capabilities, but I'm pretty sure they both required hardware modifications to tie them in to the terminal board - this was not a simple plug-in expansion card." ... "There's a 3rd party graphics board fitted on top of the CRT (seriously). It links into the PSU/video cableform from the Terminal logic board to the monitor, and also into 8 of the RAM chip sockets on the CPU board. The RAMs you pull to plug in the cables go into the graphics board, which contains another 16K of RAM as a bitmapped display buffer." ... "OK, the manual says 'Micronex Pixelplotter Graphics on the Z89/RFI computer'. It also says 'Micronex Limited, Harford Square, Chew Magna, Bristol, England'. I've got the installation instructions and memory maps. The thing contains 16K of RAM which is bank-switched with 16K of the normal memory. I think my board uses port F2H, bit 3 to select the new 16K, but I'm not absolutely sure." ... **************************************************************************** *********************** Has any of our SEBHC folks been familiar with any graphics add-on feature for H-89 system? ziloo _____ Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From leeahart at earthlink.net Tue May 15 13:06:41 2007 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 13:06:41 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Graphics Card In-Reply-To: <641501.48279.qm@web35711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <641501.48279.qm@web35711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4649F6B1.1020008@earthlink.net> > "The base H-89 had no graphic modes, just 33 graphic characters. At > least two different add-on boards were created that gave the H-89 > bitmapped graphics capabilities, but I'm pretty sure they both > required hardware modifications to tie them in to the terminal board > - this was not a simple plug-in expansion card." ... There were at least 6 graphics add-on boards for the H19/H89: 1. Cleveland Codonics "Imaginator" This was a board the size of the H19 TLB (Terminal Logic Board). It was designed to go in the unused CPU board slot in an H19. Later, they figured out it could go in an H89 by mounting it horizontally above the CRT (as I mentioned for testing the CPU board). The Imaginator added a graphics plane to the H19 terminal with 16k of bit-mapped memory (512x250). Each pixel was on/off. It was entirely connected to, and controlled by the H19 terminal's Z80. Firmware was provided to draw dots, lines, area fills, etc. with either Cleveland Codonic's own command set, or by emulation of the Tektronix 4010 graphics terminal (which behaved like a plotter; penup, pendown, draw from here to there...). 2. Northwest Digital "Graphics Plus GP19" This board mounted just like the Imaginator, either in the unused CPU slot of an H19 or horizontally above the CRT in an H89. It also connected exclusively to the H19's terminal logic board. The Graphics Plus *replaced* the TLB's video RAM with 32k of video RAM. The TLB's 6845 CRT controller could be set for different modes of operation; character modes were 80x25 (standard), plus 64x32, 80x50, 132x25, and 132x50. It was amazing to see 132 characters per line and 50 lines of text on an H19/H89! The graphic modes were 512x250 and 512x500. The firmware let the H19 emulate 4 terminals; stock Heath/Zenith H19, DEC VT-100, ADM-3 (like the Kaypro), and Tektronix 4010. Graphics were drawn with either Northwest Digital's own commands, or Tektronix 4010 commands. 3. Northwest Digital "Graphics Plus GP-29" This was an upgrade intended for the Heath/Zenith H29 terminals, but that fit the H19 as well. It *replaced* the H19's TLB, so there was no interference with it and an H89 CPU board. The GP-29 had 64-256k of RAM, and provided all the features of the GP-19 and then some. The graphic modes could be up to 1024x500 with 4 levels of grey scale. With its high resolution and dithering, it could do surprisingly good photographic quality displays. Again, it was entirely controlled via the H19 terminal interface. 4. Sigmasoft & Systems "Integrated Graphics Controller" This was a series of boards that plugged into an H89's CPU board. Its connection to the H89 was via a card that plugged into one of the left-side expansion slots on the H89 CPU board. Cables from this board connected to several large boards for the graphics, hard disk, floppy disk, and other accessories. Some could fit in the H89 case above the CPU board as above), or be mounted externally in a separate case. Besides simply graphics, it could add a hard drive, floppy drives, or extra serial or parallel ports. Basically, they provided a second terminal in addition to the H19, whose video RAM was accessible directly by the H89's CPU board. The graphics resolution was 640x768, with a 640x250 "window" of it appearing on-screen at any given time. It required special software to access the graphics and new peripherals, but Sigmasoft was very pro-active about writing software to make it all work. They had an impressive amount of software to make it do useful things. 5. New Orleans General Data Services This was a small plug-in I/O board for the H89. It added the video controller chip and RAM from a Texas Instruments video game. You needed to connect it to an external TV monitor, but then had color graphics and sound. I forget the resolution, but it was something like 192x200 in 16 colors. The main advantage of this board was that it provided flashy displays and fast-action graphics. The others were mainly good for high resolution still pictures; but this one could have moving airplanes, flying bullets, and lots of movement. But software was weak -- you had to write such games yourself! 6. TMSI "Superset" This wasn't a board; it was a new set of chips to install on an H19's or H89's Terminal Logic Board. Technically, the TLB still had only character graphics; but instead of 128 there were now 1024 characters to choose from! Besides the 33 graphic characters of the H19, you also had the 33 from a DEC VT-52, the 128 from an IBM PC, and others. One set provides pixel-addressable 160x100 graphics. The Superset also provided VT-100 text mode commands, moving sprites, an on-screen clock, and other bells and whistles. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Tue May 15 18:24:18 2007 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 19:24:18 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H89 BOOT Message-ID: <464A4122.8000907@sc.rr.com> A QUESTION If a diskette is bootable (BOTH HDOS AND CP/M) on my H8, should it be bootable on an H89? I've tried everything suggested, and everything I can think of, and it still won't boot. I had one H89 CPU board with MTR-90 so I tried that in the one I'm working on. Still won't boot. Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From cfandt at netsync.net Tue May 15 21:07:48 2007 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian R. Fandt) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 22:07:48 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H89 BOOT In-Reply-To: <464A4122.8000907@sc.rr.com> References: <464A4122.8000907@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20070515214255.01d684e0@mail.netsync.net> Well Carroll, let's first consider what major things are different betwixt the 8 and 89 . . . Disk drives: Is the floppy drive in the H89 the same model or otherwise interchangeable with the H8? If so, try to swap the known good drive from the H8 to the 89 and see what happens. I'm thinking either drive head alignment and/or analog calibration out of whack or just a plain old hardware failure of the H89 drive. How about drive cables? I can't recall if my H89 and H8 have the same cable connectors at each end, and cannot check without major bulldozing of the archive area in this house :-/ , but swap them if they are swapable. If you've got a known good spare cable check with that too. Next, is the RAM size: Is it the same between the two machines (asking this with CP/M's dependency upon RAM size in mind)? It may be okay as one of the other fellows here mentioned something about it several days ago and you probably already addressed that. Good to do a sanity check anyway. Voltages? Check +5V and +12V right at the drive on the PC board, while drive is commanded to access a floppy disk (+5 & +12 under load), to see if the power cable connector pins are okay or not. Loose connections between the male/female pins or bad crimp of one or more pins onto their respective wires can cause enough of a resistive drop in voltage to affect operation. Can't swap controller boards between the machines, obviously, so that idea is out. Sounds like patient signal tracing if nothing here works. Good luck and keep at it Carroll. You'll get the problem smoked out eventually I'm sure. Regards, Chris F. NNNN Upon the date 07:24 PM 5/15/2007, Carroll Waddell said something like: >A QUESTION > >If a diskette is bootable (BOTH HDOS AND CP/M) on my H8, should it be >bootable on an H89? > >I've tried everything suggested, and everything I can think of, and it >still won't boot. > >I had one H89 CPU board with MTR-90 so I tried that in the one I'm working >on. Still won't boot. > >Carroll >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt at netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From waltm22 at comcast.net Tue May 15 22:05:35 2007 From: waltm22 at comcast.net (Walter Moore) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 20:05:35 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Graphics Card In-Reply-To: <4649F6B1.1020008@earthlink.net> References: <641501.48279.qm@web35711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4649F6B1.1020008@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20070516030710.5697C234A@mx1.evocative.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.70 MSGID_FROM_MTA_ID Message-Id for external message added locally >2. Northwest Digital "Graphics Plus GP19" > >This board mounted just like the Imaginator, either in the unused >CPU slot of an H19 or horizontally above the CRT in an H89. It also >connected exclusively to the H19's terminal logic board. > >The Graphics Plus *replaced* the TLB's video RAM with 32k of video >RAM. The TLB's 6845 CRT controller could be set for different modes >of operation; character modes were 80x25 (standard), plus 64x32, >80x50, 132x25, and 132x50. It was amazing to see 132 characters per >line and 50 lines of text on an H19/H89! The graphic modes were >512x250 and 512x500. My GP-19 still works and is sometimes hooked up to my H8. This is the prototype we used to develop the GP-19. It's still fun to see it in 132 column mode - it's great for looking at assembler listings. Set the page length to 49 and an entire page is visible. The same 16K of RAM was used for both text mode and graphics mode. In text mode, you could scroll back and look at text which had rolled off the top of the screen (took that from an HP system). When/if I ever get some 8" drives working, I can put the source in the archive if anyone is interested. I should also have the original H19 source in MACRO-80, and a modified H19 source which added some nice features and improved the speed a lot, also in MACRO-80. ..walt -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Tue May 15 22:42:24 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 23:42:24 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H89 BOOT In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20070515214255.01d684e0@mail.netsync.net> Message-ID: <001801c7976c$37f90fc0$6500a8c0@barry> In general, a disk that works on an H8 should work on an H89 and vice-versa, providing (for CP/M) that there is enough memory in both machines and that the disk types (hard or soft sector) are the same. Of course, to run CP/M, the machine must have the various components that allow for RAM memory starting at address zero. There is a "configuration guide" that goes into detail on the requirements for various systems. This would be worth reviewing to verify correct configuration. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Christian R. Fandt Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 22:08 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] H89 BOOT Well Carroll, let's first consider what major things are different betwixt the 8 and 89 . . . Disk drives: Is the floppy drive in the H89 the same model or otherwise interchangeable with the H8? If so, try to swap the known good drive from the H8 to the 89 and see what happens. I'm thinking either drive head alignment and/or analog calibration out of whack or just a plain old hardware failure of the H89 drive. How about drive cables? I can't recall if my H89 and H8 have the same cable connectors at each end, and cannot check without major bulldozing of the archive area in this house :-/ , but swap them if they are swapable. If you've got a known good spare cable check with that too. Next, is the RAM size: Is it the same between the two machines (asking this with CP/M's dependency upon RAM size in mind)? It may be okay as one of the other fellows here mentioned something about it several days ago and you probably already addressed that. Good to do a sanity check anyway. Voltages? Check +5V and +12V right at the drive on the PC board, while drive is commanded to access a floppy disk (+5 & +12 under load), to see if the power cable connector pins are okay or not. Loose connections between the male/female pins or bad crimp of one or more pins onto their respective wires can cause enough of a resistive drop in voltage to affect operation. Can't swap controller boards between the machines, obviously, so that idea is out. Sounds like patient signal tracing if nothing here works. Good luck and keep at it Carroll. You'll get the problem smoked out eventually I'm sure. Regards, Chris F. NNNN Upon the date 07:24 PM 5/15/2007, Carroll Waddell said something like: >A QUESTION > >If a diskette is bootable (BOTH HDOS AND CP/M) on my H8, should it be >bootable on an H89? > >I've tried everything suggested, and everything I can think of, and it >still won't boot. > >I had one H89 CPU board with MTR-90 so I tried that in the one I'm working >on. Still won't boot. > >Carroll >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt at netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dkelvey at hotmail.com Tue May 15 23:48:55 2007 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 21:48:55 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H89 BOOT In-Reply-To: <464A4122.8000907@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: Wed, 16 May 2007 04:48:55 GMT >From: Carroll Waddell > >A QUESTION > >If a diskette is bootable (BOTH HDOS AND CP/M) on my H8, should it be >bootable on an H89? > >I've tried everything suggested, and everything I can think of, and it >still won't boot. > >I had one H89 CPU board with MTR-90 so I tried that in the one I'm working >on. Still won't boot. > >Carroll Hi One other thought, the H89 had a shield between the drive and the CRT. If it doesn't have the shield, it will have troubles reading. Dwight _________________________________________________________________ PC Magazine?s 2007 editors? choice for best Web mail?award-winning Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507 -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ziloo_1 at yahoo.com Wed May 16 01:48:31 2007 From: ziloo_1 at yahoo.com (ziloo ...) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 23:48:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] Graphics Card In-Reply-To: <20070516030710.5697C234A@mx1.evocative.com> Message-ID: <988627.61432.qm@web35708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.28 MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR URI: Includes a link to a likely spammer email 0.00 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message Walter Moore wrote: My GP-19 still works and is sometimes hooked up to my H8. This is the prototype we used to develop the GP-19. .. When/if I ever get some 8" drives working, I can put the source in the archive if anyone is interested... ..walt Hello Walter I am very interested in the hardware design as well as any software associated with this board or any other graphics board that once worked with H-89. If you have any schematics, please let us know. Thank you ziloo --------------------------------- Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spamspike at comcast.net Wed May 16 06:18:59 2007 From: spamspike at comcast.net (Stanley Webb) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 05:18:59 -0600 Subject: [sebhc] H89 Diskette Trouble In-Reply-To: <46489D36.8070803@sc.rr.com> References: <46489D36.8070803@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <077DDBD7-2A00-4968-A0CB-398823DE608E@comcast.net> On May 16, 2007 Stan Webb replied: A couple of things come to mind, (please forgive me if I'm stating the obvious): I am most familiar with HDOS 2.0, so i'll assume that's the Boot disk you're using. If the diskette step rate the driver on the boot disk is using is too low for the drive, I believe the disk won't boot. The Siemens drive in my original Z89 wouldn't reliably step faster than about 16-18 milliseconds. The pair of double sided 40 track Mitsumi drives I installed later stepped much faster and of course I set the step rate lower for greater speed. The default step rate on the HDOS distribution that came with my computer was 30 ms. I believe you should also be sure the drive itself is jumpered to be drive 0, since otherwise it would not send data. You didn't say how many sides or number of tracks were on the Boot Disks you are using, but I am quite sure a double sided Boot diskette will not boot in a single sided drive and an 80 track diskette would not boot either in a 40 track drive like the Siemens drive that came with my Z89. You might try pressing the space key a few times, just in case the baud rate recorded in the boot track of your Boot disk is different than that of the H89 you are trying to resurrect. Your CPU logic board switch is set in default configuration, 9600 Baud (POS 6&7 set 0) My Z89 Operation manual also says this: Quote/ Terminal Logic Circuit Board Switch S402 the switches on S402 are set at the factory to "0". Switch S401 is preset for: MODE Switch Selector 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9600 Baud 0 0 1 1 No parity 0 Even parity 0 Normal parity 0 Full Duplex 1 ... Heath Software does not check parity ... CPU Logic Circuit Board ... Programming Jumpers The programming jumpers JJ505 through JJ508 are determined by the types of location of the system PROM's. Be sure the jumpers are installed as follows: Jumper Location JJ506 0 JJ507 0 JJ505 0 JJ508 B Serial Interface Refer to Pictorial 5-2 (Illustration Booklet, page 4 and set all three programming jumpers to OFF if this has not already been done. end quote/ I notice these Jumper numbers are somewhat different than yours I have 2 Z89's I can further examine if you think I might be able to help you. On May 14, 2007, at 11:32 AM, Carroll Waddell wrote: > I haven't been able to find out the problem with my diskette drive > yet. I feel like I have a problem with the configuration of the CPU > board rather than an actual hardware problem. Let me list what I > have on the CPU board. If someone has a working H89, can you look > and tell me what configuration you have. > > Have the hard sector controller card. > The diskettes I'm trying to boot (1 is CP/M and the other is HDOS) > will boot fine on my H8. > > The CPU board is the new(er) one, part number 85-2549-1. > ROMS: > U518 - 444-62 (MTR89) > U516 - 444-41 > U520 - 444-19 > U517 - 444 66 > U550 - 555-61 > > There are disk RAM chips in U523 & 525 (2114) > There is an HDOS ROM at U520 (444-19) > U562 is a 74S132. > > I have 64K memory. (has the 16K memory expansion board) > Memory test runs fine. > > JUMPERS: > JJ501 - 1 > JJ502 - 1 > JJ503 - B > > JJ504 - 0 > JJ505 - 0 > JJ506 - 0 > JJ507 - B > > DIP switch 501 is set as: > POS 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 > SET 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 > > CONDITIONS: > 1. Memory test works ok > 2. Rotational speed test works ok > 3. When try to BOOT, drive becomes active for a few seconds then > screen says BOOT? > > The configuration guide speaks of a WRITE PROTECT PULLUP. It says > this resistor is on the hard sectored controller card. What does > this do? > > I know on the H8 the diskette controller ROM and the diskette > controller RAM chips are removed from the board when you have XCON8 > ROM and 64K. > Should the HDOS ROM and RAM chips be on the CPU board? > > Any ideas would be appreciated. > > Carroll > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Tue May 15 22:09:27 2007 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 22:09:27 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H89 BOOT In-Reply-To: <464A4122.8000907@sc.rr.com> References: <464A4122.8000907@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <464A75E7.9040208@earthlink.net> Carroll Waddell wrote: > A QUESTION > > If a diskette is bootable (BOTH HDOS AND CP/M) on my H8, should it be > bootable on an H89? The stock distributions of Heath's HDOS and CP/M would boot on either an H8 or an H89. But, that was because they took pains to make sure they would. The H8 came with an 8080 CPU; the H89 had a Z80 CPU. These two CPUs run at different speeds and have different instruction sets. Heath wrote the BIOS so it would boot on either. But there were switches in the code that could select between them (i.e. you could build a new BIOS that would be specific to the H8 or H89). There were also differences in the two machine's boot ROMs. Programs that used them (like HDOS) could also have problems running on the "wrong" machine. Another common problem was that the boot code could be configured use the wrong terminal baud rate, wrong memory size, wrong disk parameters (sides, step rates, 40/80 tracks), or wrong disk controller (H17, H37, etc.). -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Wed May 16 09:23:32 2007 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 09:23:32 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Graphics Card In-Reply-To: <20070516030710.5697C234A@mx1.evocative.com> References: <641501.48279.qm@web35711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4649F6B1.1020008@earthlink.net> <20070516030710.5697C234A@mx1.evocative.com> Message-ID: <464B13E4.3080600@earthlink.net> Walter Moore wrote: >> 2. Northwest Digital "Graphics Plus GP19" > My GP-19 still works and is sometimes hooked up to my H8. This is the > prototype we used to develop the GP-19. It's still fun to see it in 132 > column mode - it's great for looking at assembler listings. Set the > page length to 49 and an entire page is visible. Yes! It's amazing that the stock H19 video circuitry was good enough to do this, too. One more proof that Heath (and Northwest Digital) did some really excellent engineering. > The same 16K of RAM was used for both text mode and graphics mode. > In text mode, you could scroll back and look at text which had rolled > off the top of the screen (took that from an HP system). The GP-19 had lots of highly useful features like this. Others were the on-screen menus, 8-bit character mode (simplified sending mixed text and graphics), and control code display mode (for debugging ESC sequences). > When/if I ever get some 8" drives working, I can put the source in the > archive if anyone is interested. I should also have the original H19 > source in MACRO-80, and a modified H19 source which added some nice > features and improved the speed a lot, also in MACRO-80. I'd be interested. Also, I can post my Superset source. I copied many of the features of the GP-19, and it is also a *lot* faster than the stock H19 code (runs at 38k baud without handshaking). -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Wed May 16 14:59:27 2007 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 15:59:27 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS Message-ID: <464B629F.8020606@sc.rr.com> Thanks to everyone in the group that gave me tips on my H89 boot problem. I just got it to boot successfully. The problem turned out to be 2, not one, but 2 bad diskette drives. I used them on the H8 and they worked, so I moved them to the H89 and it wouldn't boot. I finally put them back on the H8, and they wouldn't boot there either. When I tried other diskette drives I had, SWEET BOOT SUCCESS! FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE I BOUGHT THIS MACHINE! Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Wed May 16 15:57:56 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 16:57:56 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS In-Reply-To: <464B629F.8020606@sc.rr.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <000c01c797fc$e179b0f0$6500a8c0@barry> The problem may be marginal alignment. Also, as noted earlier, some drives don't like being in an H89 right next to the deflection yoke (that's why the mu-metal shield was part of the design). -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Carroll Waddell Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 15:59 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS Thanks to everyone in the group that gave me tips on my H89 boot problem. I just got it to boot successfully. The problem turned out to be 2, not one, but 2 bad diskette drives. I used them on the H8 and they worked, so I moved them to the H89 and it wouldn't boot. I finally put them back on the H8, and they wouldn't boot there either. When I tried other diskette drives I had, SWEET BOOT SUCCESS! FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE I BOUGHT THIS MACHINE! Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Wed May 16 17:04:34 2007 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 18:04:34 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS In-Reply-To: <000c01c797fc$e179b0f0$6500a8c0@barry> References: <000c01c797fc$e179b0f0$6500a8c0@barry> Message-ID: <464B7FF2.8080002@sc.rr.com> Barry Watzman wrote: >The problem may be marginal alignment. Also, as noted earlier, some drives >don't like being in an H89 right next to the deflection yoke (that's why the >mu-metal shield was part of the design). > > >-----Original Message----- >From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >Carroll Waddell >Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 15:59 PM >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS > >Thanks to everyone in the group that gave me tips on my H89 boot >problem. I just got it to boot successfully. The problem turned out to >be 2, not one, but 2 bad diskette drives. >I used them on the H8 and they worked, so I moved them to the H89 and it >wouldn't boot. I finally put them back on the H8, and they wouldn't boot >there either. >When I tried other diskette drives I had, SWEET BOOT SUCCESS! FOR THE >FIRST TIME SINCE I BOUGHT THIS MACHINE! > >Carroll >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > Is there any way I can check the head alignment? I used to do head alignment on large mainframe disk drives. Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Wed May 16 18:55:46 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 19:55:46 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS In-Reply-To: <464B7FF2.8080002@sc.rr.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <002101c79815$bca98570$6500a8c0@barry> Yes, but you would need an oscilloscope and an analog alignment disk (almost impossible to come by these days), or a digital alignment disk and a software program to utilize it and analyze the result (and while a digital disk will tell what the story is, it won't allow you to fix it, at least not easily). -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Carroll Waddell Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 18:05 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS Barry Watzman wrote: >The problem may be marginal alignment. Also, as noted earlier, some drives >don't like being in an H89 right next to the deflection yoke (that's why the >mu-metal shield was part of the design). > > >-----Original Message----- >From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >Carroll Waddell >Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 15:59 PM >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS > >Thanks to everyone in the group that gave me tips on my H89 boot >problem. I just got it to boot successfully. The problem turned out to >be 2, not one, but 2 bad diskette drives. >I used them on the H8 and they worked, so I moved them to the H89 and it >wouldn't boot. I finally put them back on the H8, and they wouldn't boot >there either. >When I tried other diskette drives I had, SWEET BOOT SUCCESS! FOR THE >FIRST TIME SINCE I BOUGHT THIS MACHINE! > >Carroll >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > Is there any way I can check the head alignment? I used to do head alignment on large mainframe disk drives. Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From nj7p at nj7p.org Wed May 16 19:48:32 2007 From: nj7p at nj7p.org (Bill Beech (NJ7P)) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 17:48:32 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Graphics Card In-Reply-To: <988627.61432.qm@web35708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <988627.61432.qm@web35708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <464BA660.1090309@nj7p.org> Walter, I have an operational CP/M 8-inch system here. I might be able to read your floppies. I was suprised that I was able to read mine that had been stored in the unconditioned garage for 20 years. Bill ziloo ... wrote: > > > */Walter Moore /* wrote: > > > My GP-19 still works and is sometimes hooked up to my H8. This is > the prototype we used to develop the GP-19. .. > > When/if I ever get some 8" drives working, I can put the source in > the archive if anyone is interested... > ..walt > > Hello Walter > > I am very interested in the hardware design as well as any software > associated with > this board or any other graphics board that once worked with H-89. If > you have any > schematics, please let us know. > > Thank you > > ziloo > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email > wherever > you're surfing. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From nj7p at nj7p.org Wed May 16 19:58:05 2007 From: nj7p at nj7p.org (Bill Beech (NJ7P)) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 17:58:05 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS In-Reply-To: <002101c79815$bca98570$6500a8c0@barry> References: <002101c79815$bca98570$6500a8c0@barry> Message-ID: <464BA89D.1070508@nj7p.org> Alignment disks are nice, but a distribution disk can be used in place of it with the scope to test alignment. The trick is still to maximize the signal on the low and high tracks of the disk from a place on the drive before they "slice" the signal. Usually I try to put the scope on the output of the head amplifier before the signal gets into any digital devices. I have aligned 5 and 8-inch floppy drives with both a standard alignment disk and a single-density distribution disk with success. Learned these tricks when I was in Korea where nothing like that was available. Bill Barry Watzman wrote: >Yes, but you would need an oscilloscope and an analog alignment disk (almost >impossible to come by these days), or a digital alignment disk and a >software program to utilize it and analyze the result (and while a digital >disk will tell what the story is, it won't allow you to fix it, at least not >easily). > > >-----Original Message----- >From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >Carroll Waddell >Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 18:05 PM >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: Re: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS > >Barry Watzman wrote: > > > >>The problem may be marginal alignment. Also, as noted earlier, some drives >>don't like being in an H89 right next to the deflection yoke (that's why >> >> >the > > >>mu-metal shield was part of the design). >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >>Carroll Waddell >>Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 15:59 PM >>To: sebhc at sebhc.org >>Subject: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS >> >>Thanks to everyone in the group that gave me tips on my H89 boot >>problem. I just got it to boot successfully. The problem turned out to >>be 2, not one, but 2 bad diskette drives. >>I used them on the H8 and they worked, so I moved them to the H89 and it >>wouldn't boot. I finally put them back on the H8, and they wouldn't boot >>there either. >>When I tried other diskette drives I had, SWEET BOOT SUCCESS! FOR THE >>FIRST TIME SINCE I BOUGHT THIS MACHINE! >> >>Carroll >>-- >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> >> >>-- >>Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> >> >> >> >> >Is there any way I can check the head alignment? I used to do head >alignment on large mainframe disk drives. >Carroll >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > > > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From paulpenn at knology.net Thu May 17 08:09:55 2007 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul A. Pennington) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 09:09:55 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS References: <000c01c797fc$e179b0f0$6500a8c0@barry> <464B7FF2.8080002@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <003f01c79884$a9ef8460$6401a8c0@A31PAUL> Carroll wrote: > Is there any way I can check the head alignment? In my experience, head alignment problems are rare. With old drives, the problem is usually head wear. The output level from the heads drops below the noise level inside the computer, and they stop working no matter what you do to the alignment. I saw that a lot with Heath/Zenith and Kaypro computers, with their open power supplies. Stick the same drive in a PC with the power supply in a metal box, and it usually works fine. Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Thu May 17 08:54:47 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 09:54:47 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS In-Reply-To: <003f01c79884$a9ef8460$6401a8c0@A31PAUL> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <004201c7988a$eeb756d0$6500a8c0@barry> The power supplies in all Zenith products prior to the Z-100 series were linear power supplies, while the power supplies in all PCs are switching power supplies. There is no issue with a linear supply being "open" vs. in a metal box. In fact, the reason for the metal box is that switching power supplies have lethal voltages in them, while linear power supplies do not (except on the primary side of the main power transformer). The comments about head wear MAY be relevant, but the comments about power supplies are not relevant. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Paul A. Pennington Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 9:10 AM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS Carroll wrote: > Is there any way I can check the head alignment? In my experience, head alignment problems are rare. With old drives, the problem is usually head wear. The output level from the heads drops below the noise level inside the computer, and they stop working no matter what you do to the alignment. I saw that a lot with Heath/Zenith and Kaypro computers, with their open power supplies. Stick the same drive in a PC with the power supply in a metal box, and it usually works fine. Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From paulpenn at knology.net Thu May 17 16:45:37 2007 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul A. Pennington) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 17:45:37 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS References: <004201c7988a$eeb756d0$6500a8c0@barry> Message-ID: <003301c798cc$b4bf6160$6401a8c0@A31PAUL> Barry said: > The power supplies in all Zenith products prior to the Z-100 series were > linear power supplies, while the power supplies in all PCs are switching > power supplies. Not true: the H/Z-89/90 had the mother of all switching power supplies inches away from the disk drive in the form of a CRT assembly. I glossed over that detail because I thought everybody on the list already knew that. > There is no issue with a linear supply being "open" vs. in > a metal box. In fact, the reason for the metal box is that switching > power > supplies have lethal voltages in them, while linear power supplies do not > (except on the primary side of the main power transformer). My experience on that has been different. While protection is one reason to enclose switchers, a bigger benefit, in my opinion, is less radiated noise from the switching circuitry. You don't have to take my word for it: bring an oscilloscope probe near an open switcher (or CRT). You'll see some pretty wild voltages floating around. My statement about Heath vs. PC's was based on swapping several Tandon disk drives between a Z-100 (non-CRT model) and an original IBM PC. To me, this pins the noise down to the switching power supply: some drives that worked in the PC would not work in the Z-100. I observed the same thing with Kaypro computers (with open switcher) vs. the PC. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it :-) On what do you base your opinion that radiated noise from switching power supplies is "not relevant"? Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Thu May 17 17:32:15 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 18:32:15 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS In-Reply-To: <003301c798cc$b4bf6160$6401a8c0@A31PAUL> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <009201c798d3$38b5d2f0$6500a8c0@barry> I didn't say that radiated noise from switching power supplies is not significant, but the deflection system of a monitor is not what people normally mean when they say "switching power supply", although I agree that it technically is. -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Paul A. Pennington Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 17:46 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS Barry said: > The power supplies in all Zenith products prior to the Z-100 series were > linear power supplies, while the power supplies in all PCs are switching > power supplies. Not true: the H/Z-89/90 had the mother of all switching power supplies inches away from the disk drive in the form of a CRT assembly. I glossed over that detail because I thought everybody on the list already knew that. > There is no issue with a linear supply being "open" vs. in > a metal box. In fact, the reason for the metal box is that switching > power > supplies have lethal voltages in them, while linear power supplies do not > (except on the primary side of the main power transformer). My experience on that has been different. While protection is one reason to enclose switchers, a bigger benefit, in my opinion, is less radiated noise from the switching circuitry. You don't have to take my word for it: bring an oscilloscope probe near an open switcher (or CRT). You'll see some pretty wild voltages floating around. My statement about Heath vs. PC's was based on swapping several Tandon disk drives between a Z-100 (non-CRT model) and an original IBM PC. To me, this pins the noise down to the switching power supply: some drives that worked in the PC would not work in the Z-100. I observed the same thing with Kaypro computers (with open switcher) vs. the PC. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it :-) On what do you base your opinion that radiated noise from switching power supplies is "not relevant"? Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Thu May 17 17:30:37 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 18:30:37 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS In-Reply-To: <003301c798cc$b4bf6160$6401a8c0@A31PAUL> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <009101c798d2$fe725b90$6500a8c0@barry> If you mean the flyback transformer in the monitor, yes. But other than that, the power supply in the H/Z-19/88/89/90 was totally linear. That's not what is usually meant, however. You don't have to enclose linear power supplies because they generate no noise to radiate. And also, the issue in the 19/89's wasn't so much from the flyback, but from the deflection yoke. The flyback was relatively far from the disk drive, but the yoke was much closer. Other than the floppy disk drive heads, there was no issue at all. Barry Watzman -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Paul A. Pennington Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 17:46 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS Barry said: > The power supplies in all Zenith products prior to the Z-100 series were > linear power supplies, while the power supplies in all PCs are switching > power supplies. Not true: the H/Z-89/90 had the mother of all switching power supplies inches away from the disk drive in the form of a CRT assembly. I glossed over that detail because I thought everybody on the list already knew that. > There is no issue with a linear supply being "open" vs. in > a metal box. In fact, the reason for the metal box is that switching > power > supplies have lethal voltages in them, while linear power supplies do not > (except on the primary side of the main power transformer). My experience on that has been different. While protection is one reason to enclose switchers, a bigger benefit, in my opinion, is less radiated noise from the switching circuitry. You don't have to take my word for it: bring an oscilloscope probe near an open switcher (or CRT). You'll see some pretty wild voltages floating around. My statement about Heath vs. PC's was based on swapping several Tandon disk drives between a Z-100 (non-CRT model) and an original IBM PC. To me, this pins the noise down to the switching power supply: some drives that worked in the PC would not work in the Z-100. I observed the same thing with Kaypro computers (with open switcher) vs. the PC. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it :-) On what do you base your opinion that radiated noise from switching power supplies is "not relevant"? Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Fri May 18 11:32:16 2007 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 11:32:16 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS In-Reply-To: <003301c798cc$b4bf6160$6401a8c0@A31PAUL> References: <004201c7988a$eeb756d0$6500a8c0@barry> <003301c798cc$b4bf6160$6401a8c0@A31PAUL> Message-ID: <464DD510.3050803@earthlink.net> Barry wrote: >> The power supplies in all Zenith products prior to the Z-100 series >> were linear power supplies, while the power supplies in all PCs are >> switching power supplies. Paul A. Pennington wrote: > Not true: the H/Z-89/90 had the mother of all switching power > supplies inches away from the disk drive in the form of a CRT assembly. No; Barry is correct. The H/Z-89/90s have linear power supplies. The deflection supply for the CRT is a switcher of sorts, but only supplies a small amount of power (8kv at less than 1 ma). The flyback transformer is also way on the opposite side of the case from the disk drive. The problem is not from the flyback switching supply; it is from the radiated magnetic field from the deflection yoke on the neck of the CRT. It is relatively close to the disk drive, and by nature, disk drives are sensitive to magnetic fields. That's what the mu-metal shield was for between the disk drive and yoke. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ziloo_1 at yahoo.com Fri May 18 15:57:46 2007 From: ziloo_1 at yahoo.com (ziloo ...) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 13:57:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] Ram 4116 Message-ID: <644270.88739.qm@web35706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.50 BSF_RULE7568M BODY: Custom Rule 7568M 0.00 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message Hello folks, I came across this auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-4116-RAM-Set-of-8pcs-Commodore-PET-and-PCs_W0QQitemZ320114967925QQihZ011QQcategoryZ74945QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Cheers! ziloo --------------------------------- No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dkelvey at hotmail.com Fri May 18 23:21:15 2007 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 21:21:15 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS In-Reply-To: <464DD510.3050803@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Sat, 19 May 2007 04:21:15 GMT >From: Lee Hart > >The problem is not from the flyback switching supply; it is from the >radiated magnetic field from the deflection yoke on the neck of the CRT. It >is relatively close to the disk drive, and by nature, disk drives are >sensitive to magnetic fields. That's what the mu-metal shield was for >between the disk drive and yoke. > Hi I agree, the magnetic fields can cause havic for floppy drives. A surprise to most is that these stray magnetic fields have a greater effect on writing to the disk than they do to readingthe disk. I'm not sure what the physics is that causes this difference but experiments that I've done in the past show this. Dwight _________________________________________________________________ More photos, more messages, more storage?get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sat May 19 09:10:24 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 10:10:24 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004801c79a1f$744aa0a0$6500a8c0@barry> Re: "A surprise to most is that these stray magnetic fields have a greater effect on writing to the disk than they do to readingthe disk" I don't think that this is literally correct. But keep in mind that writing requires reading first (the process of writing requires reading the sector headers before the actual writing begins). -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From nj7p at nj7p.org Sat May 19 11:17:16 2007 From: nj7p at nj7p.org (Bill Beech (NJ7P)) Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 09:17:16 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <4646C206.5030106@earthlink.net> References: <15126023.1178940255323.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <46464595.5040607@sc.rr.com> <464663BE.9020408@nj7p.org> <4645D144.7090805@earthlink.net> <46473FB1.9060305@nj7p.org> <4646C206.5030106@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <464F230C.4060307@nj7p.org> Lee, Do you have the foldouts for the H8 board set? If so, could I get you to mail them to me to scan? I will return them when the job is complete. Bill Lee Hart wrote: > Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote: > >> Lee, >> >> I have the scanner. I have done the very large diagrams in some of >> the army manuals I am scanning in. I do these in pieces and then I >> use a program to merge them back together. >> >> I would be glad to scan the manuals (I do them at 600 dpi) and the >> foldouts. The draw back is I have to take the manuals apart and cut >> them to individual pages. I usually then punch holes and put them in >> a binder. And it takes a bit of time to clean and straighten pages. > > > Heath manuals (including these H8 manuals) sent the schematics, wiring > diagrams, and mechanical layouts as loose sheets; generally quite > large. The PC board illustrations are in color; black for the foil on > one side, red for the other. You won't have to take manuals apart, but > would have to deal with large sheets, some in 2 colors. Is that a > problem? -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From nj7p at nj7p.org Sat May 19 17:16:42 2007 From: nj7p at nj7p.org (Bill Beech (NJ7P)) Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 15:16:42 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Schematics and board layouts In-Reply-To: <464F230C.4060307@nj7p.org> References: <15126023.1178940255323.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <46464595.5040607@sc.rr.com> <464663BE.9020408@nj7p.org> <4645D144.7090805@earthlink.net> <46473FB1.9060305@nj7p.org> <4646C206.5030106@earthlink.net> <464F230C.4060307@nj7p.org> Message-ID: <464F774A.7060103@nj7p.org> Does anyone have the foldouts for the CPU, RAM, Disk Controller(s) and other boards used in the H8 that would be willing to mail them to me to scan in and share with the group? I will return them once they are scanned. I am deadlocked trying to fix an H8 here without the schematic for the CPU card. Also, does anyone have a manual on the "DG-64D 64K Memory Board" for the H8. This H8 has only that third-party dynamic RAM board. Thanks! Bill -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Sat May 19 19:32:14 2007 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 20:32:14 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Schematics and board layouts In-Reply-To: <464F774A.7060103@nj7p.org> References: <15126023.1178940255323.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <46464595.5040607@sc.rr.com> <464663BE.9020408@nj7p.org> <4645D144.7090805@earthlink.net> <46473FB1.9060305@nj7p.org> <4646C206.5030106@earthlink.net> <464F230C.4060307@nj7p.org> <464F774A.7060103@nj7p.org> Message-ID: <464F970E.9010503@sc.rr.com> Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote: > Does anyone have the foldouts for the CPU, RAM, Disk Controller(s) and > other boards used in the H8 that would be willing to mail them to me > to scan in and share with the group? I will return them once they are > scanned. > > I am deadlocked trying to fix an H8 here without the schematic for the > CPU card. > > Also, does anyone have a manual on the "DG-64D 64K Memory Board" for > the H8. This H8 has only that third-party dynamic RAM board. > > Thanks! > > Bill > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > Bill Send me your address and I'll let you borrow a schematic of the CPU board. I have some copies that I have reduced down to 11 x 17 of the CPU and H17 controller schematics. I have a book on the DG 32K board if you think that would help. If you need any help repairing your H8, let me know and I'll try to help. carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From nj7p at nj7p.org Sat May 19 20:13:23 2007 From: nj7p at nj7p.org (Bill Beech (NJ7P)) Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 18:13:23 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Schematics and board layouts In-Reply-To: <464F970E.9010503@sc.rr.com> References: <15126023.1178940255323.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <46464595.5040607@sc.rr.com> <464663BE.9020408@nj7p.org> <4645D144.7090805@earthlink.net> <46473FB1.9060305@nj7p.org> <4646C206.5030106@earthlink.net> <464F230C.4060307@nj7p.org> <464F774A.7060103@nj7p.org> <464F970E.9010503@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <464FA0B3.4010409@nj7p.org> Carrol, Great! My address is: William Beech 6567 Y-Lightning Rd. Hereford, AZ 85615 I bet the 32K board is a 64K with half the 4116's missing! I will copy the manual and put it up on the site. I have an H8-4 serial I/O card and a controller marked "Controller Board" and number 85-2204-1. It has a Intel 2316 ROM and what appears to be an AMI S2350 ACIA - so I bet this is the hard-sectored controller. Also an 85-2521-1 board (about 2 inches long) which I believe handled double-sided drives. I appreciate the offer of help. I will be communicating my progress once I get the schematics. Thanks again! Bill Carroll Waddell wrote: > Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote: > >> Does anyone have the foldouts for the CPU, RAM, Disk Controller(s) >> and other boards used in the H8 that would be willing to mail them to >> me to scan in and share with the group? I will return them once they >> are scanned. >> >> I am deadlocked trying to fix an H8 here without the schematic for >> the CPU card. >> >> Also, does anyone have a manual on the "DG-64D 64K Memory Board" for >> the H8. This H8 has only that third-party dynamic RAM board. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Bill >> >> -- >> Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> > Bill > Send me your address and I'll let you borrow a schematic of the CPU > board. I have some copies that I have reduced down to 11 x 17 of the > CPU and H17 controller schematics. > I have a book on the DG 32K board if you think that would help. If > you need any help repairing your H8, let me know and I'll try to help. > > carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com > > Carroll > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Sat May 19 20:33:48 2007 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 21:33:48 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Schematics and board layouts In-Reply-To: <464FA0B3.4010409@nj7p.org> References: <15126023.1178940255323.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <46464595.5040607@sc.rr.com> <464663BE.9020408@nj7p.org> <4645D144.7090805@earthlink.net> <46473FB1.9060305@nj7p.org> <4646C206.5030106@earthlink.net> <464F230C.4060307@nj7p.org> <464F774A.7060103@nj7p.org> <464F970E.9010503@sc.rr.com> <464FA0B3.4010409@nj7p.org> Message-ID: <464FA57C.9080400@sc.rr.com> Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote: > Carrol, > > Great! My address is: > > William Beech > 6567 Y-Lightning Rd. > Hereford, AZ 85615 > > I bet the 32K board is a 64K with half the 4116's missing! I will > copy the manual and put it up on the site. > > I have an H8-4 serial I/O card and a controller marked "Controller > Board" and number 85-2204-1. It has a Intel 2316 ROM and what appears > to be an AMI S2350 ACIA - so I bet this is the hard-sectored > controller. Also an 85-2521-1 board (about 2 inches long) which I > believe handled double-sided drives. > > I appreciate the offer of help. I will be communicating my progress > once I get the schematics. > Thanks again! > > Bill > > > > Carroll Waddell wrote: > >> Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote: >> >>> Does anyone have the foldouts for the CPU, RAM, Disk Controller(s) >>> and other boards used in the H8 that would be willing to mail them >>> to me to scan in and share with the group? I will return them once >>> they are scanned. >>> >>> I am deadlocked trying to fix an H8 here without the schematic for >>> the CPU card. >>> >>> Also, does anyone have a manual on the "DG-64D 64K Memory Board" for >>> the H8. This H8 has only that third-party dynamic RAM board. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> -- >>> Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >>> >> Bill >> Send me your address and I'll let you borrow a schematic of the CPU >> board. I have some copies that I have reduced down to 11 x 17 of the >> CPU and H17 controller schematics. >> I have a book on the DG 32K board if you think that would help. If >> you need any help repairing your H8, let me know and I'll try to help. >> >> carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com >> >> Carroll >> -- >> Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> >> > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > I'll get the stuff I have in the mail on Monday. The small board is probably called an XCON 8 Boot board. It is usually turned with the components toward the back and plugged into the last bus connector. It was used to allow all 64K to be RAM. This was necessary to run CP/M. The board with the 2350 is the hard sectored disk controller. Let me know if you need anything else. Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From nj7p at nj7p.org Sat May 19 21:05:34 2007 From: nj7p at nj7p.org (Bill Beech (NJ7P)) Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 19:05:34 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Schematics and board layouts In-Reply-To: <464FA57C.9080400@sc.rr.com> References: <15126023.1178940255323.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <46464595.5040607@sc.rr.com> <464663BE.9020408@nj7p.org> <4645D144.7090805@earthlink.net> <46473FB1.9060305@nj7p.org> <4646C206.5030106@earthlink.net> <464F230C.4060307@nj7p.org> <464F774A.7060103@nj7p.org> <464F970E.9010503@sc.rr.com> <464FA0B3.4010409@nj7p.org> <464FA57C.9080400@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <464FACEE.9040701@nj7p.org> Carrol, I certainly will. I have an S-100 system and Kaypros that are operational, after some TLC. I had to rewrite the code for the S-100 boot rom to get it working reliably. It had a bug that drove my wife nuts 20 years ago with a Z80 assembler class she was taking. It had been 20 years since I did much 8085 assembler. And I had to recompile my old command line assembler to do it. This old stuff is fun and is far less complicated that a current generation PC. Bill Carroll Waddell wrote: > Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote: > >> Carrol, >> >> Great! My address is: >> >> William Beech >> 6567 Y-Lightning Rd. >> Hereford, AZ 85615 >> >> I bet the 32K board is a 64K with half the 4116's missing! I will >> copy the manual and put it up on the site. >> >> I have an H8-4 serial I/O card and a controller marked "Controller >> Board" and number 85-2204-1. It has a Intel 2316 ROM and what >> appears to be an AMI S2350 ACIA - so I bet this is the hard-sectored >> controller. Also an 85-2521-1 board (about 2 inches long) which I >> believe handled double-sided drives. >> >> I appreciate the offer of help. I will be communicating my progress >> once I get the schematics. >> Thanks again! >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> Carroll Waddell wrote: >> >>> Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote: >>> >>>> Does anyone have the foldouts for the CPU, RAM, Disk Controller(s) >>>> and other boards used in the H8 that would be willing to mail them >>>> to me to scan in and share with the group? I will return them once >>>> they are scanned. >>>> >>>> I am deadlocked trying to fix an H8 here without the schematic for >>>> the CPU card. >>>> >>>> Also, does anyone have a manual on the "DG-64D 64K Memory Board" >>>> for the H8. This H8 has only that third-party dynamic RAM board. >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> Bill >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >>>> >>> Bill >>> Send me your address and I'll let you borrow a schematic of the CPU >>> board. I have some copies that I have reduced down to 11 x 17 of the >>> CPU and H17 controller schematics. >>> I have a book on the DG 32K board if you think that would help. If >>> you need any help repairing your H8, let me know and I'll try to help. >>> >>> carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com >>> >>> Carroll >>> -- >>> Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List >> > I'll get the stuff I have in the mail on Monday. The small board is > probably called an XCON 8 Boot board. It is usually turned with the > components toward the back and plugged into the last bus connector. It > was used to allow all 64K to be RAM. This was necessary to run CP/M. > The board with the 2350 is the hard sectored disk controller. > Let me know if you need anything else. > Carroll > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat May 19 21:16:46 2007 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 22:16:46 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Schematics and board layouts In-Reply-To: <464FACEE.9040701@nj7p.org> References: <15126023.1178940255323.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <46464595.5040607@sc.rr.com> <464663BE.9020408@nj7p.org> <4645D144.7090805@earthlink.net> <46473FB1.9060305@nj7p.org> <4646C206.5030106@earthlink.net> <464F230C.4060307@nj7p.org> <464F774A.7060103@nj7p.org> <464F970E.9010503@sc.rr.com> <464FA0B3.4010409@nj7p.org> <464FA57C.9080400@sc.rr.com> <464FACEE.9040701@nj7p.org> Message-ID: On May 19, 2007, at 10:05 PM, Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote: > I certainly will. I have an S-100 system and Kaypros that are > operational, after some TLC. I had to rewrite the code for the > S-100 boot rom to get it working reliably. It had a bug that drove > my wife nuts 20 years ago with a Z80 assembler class she was > taking. It had been 20 years since I did much 8085 assembler. And > I had to recompile my old command line assembler to do it. Umm. Forgive me for jumping in, but...Your wife took classes in Z80 assembler programming? Does she have a sister? ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From nj7p at nj7p.org Sat May 19 22:12:52 2007 From: nj7p at nj7p.org (Bill Beech (NJ7P)) Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 20:12:52 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Schematics and board layouts In-Reply-To: References: <15126023.1178940255323.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <46464595.5040607@sc.rr.com> <464663BE.9020408@nj7p.org> <4645D144.7090805@earthlink.net> <46473FB1.9060305@nj7p.org> <4646C206.5030106@earthlink.net> <464F230C.4060307@nj7p.org> <464F774A.7060103@nj7p.org> <464F970E.9010503@sc.rr.com> <464FA0B3.4010409@nj7p.org> <464FA57C.9080400@sc.rr.com> <464FACEE.9040701@nj7p.org> Message-ID: <464FBCB4.6060504@nj7p.org> Dave, Yup, but she is a nurse-midwife.... And I am the designated geek for her computers... Actually, the wife was a Cobol programmer in the Army. I was a Chinese and Korean linguist (Voice intercept) when we met in Korea. I was building computers for fun. I had the s-100 system there for that 4-year tour. Bill Dave McGuire wrote: > On May 19, 2007, at 10:05 PM, Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote: > >> I certainly will. I have an S-100 system and Kaypros that are >> operational, after some TLC. I had to rewrite the code for the >> S-100 boot rom to get it working reliably. It had a bug that drove >> my wife nuts 20 years ago with a Z80 assembler class she was >> taking. It had been 20 years since I did much 8085 assembler. And >> I had to recompile my old command line assembler to do it. > > > Umm. Forgive me for jumping in, but...Your wife took classes in > Z80 assembler programming? > > Does she have a sister? ;) > > -Dave > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ddl-cctech at danlan.com Sat May 19 23:03:57 2007 From: ddl-cctech at danlan.com (Dan Lanciani) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 00:03:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [sebhc] H90 Message-ID: <200705200403.AAA28055@ss10.danlan.com> |As I said before, I am willing to do the scanning and other work to make |the PDFs available to the net. Especially if you understand that I need |to cut them apart. Ok, I have the following extra manuals. They can be cut up and they do not have to be returned to me. Original H8 preview set consisting of: H8 assembly 595-2013-01 H8 operation 595-2014-01 H10 assembly 595-1970-02 H10 operation 595-2020-01 H9 assembly 595-1996-02 H9 operation 595-2017-02 H8-1 595-2028-01 H8-2 595-2033-02 H8-5 595-2032-03 PAM-8 595-2348 H8 software reference 595-2048-01 H8-4 assembly 595-2080 H8-4 operation 595-2248 WH8-4 operation/service 595-2206-02 H19 assembly 595-2191-01 WH19 operation/service 595-2192 H-19A assembly 595-2594-02 H-19A operation 595-2595-02 HDOS SYSTEM Software Reference Manual (no obvious part number) (with disks) BASIC-80 (HDOS) 595-2285-03 (with disk) MTR-88 595-2349 MTR-89 595-2508 FDD 100-5B (with schematic) Z-219-1 installation Z-207-3 technical (with TM100 manual) If you (or anyone else) wants any of these let me know as soon as possible (preferably by Sunday night). Now that they are unpacked they are bound for the recycle pile. Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sat May 19 23:37:13 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 00:37:13 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <200705200403.AAA28055@ss10.danlan.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <000001c79a98$8a166b20$6500a8c0@barry> If no one else wants them, I'll take them; I'll pay the media mail postage. I have a scanner with a document feeder, but I don't have a good way of scanning oversize material. I'm in NE Ohio. Barry Watzman Watzman at neo.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Dan Lanciani Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 0:04 AM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Cc: nj7p at nj7p.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] H90 |As I said before, I am willing to do the scanning and other work to make |the PDFs available to the net. Especially if you understand that I need |to cut them apart. Ok, I have the following extra manuals. They can be cut up and they do not have to be returned to me. Original H8 preview set consisting of: H8 assembly 595-2013-01 H8 operation 595-2014-01 H10 assembly 595-1970-02 H10 operation 595-2020-01 H9 assembly 595-1996-02 H9 operation 595-2017-02 H8-1 595-2028-01 H8-2 595-2033-02 H8-5 595-2032-03 PAM-8 595-2348 H8 software reference 595-2048-01 H8-4 assembly 595-2080 H8-4 operation 595-2248 WH8-4 operation/service 595-2206-02 H19 assembly 595-2191-01 WH19 operation/service 595-2192 H-19A assembly 595-2594-02 H-19A operation 595-2595-02 HDOS SYSTEM Software Reference Manual (no obvious part number) (with disks) BASIC-80 (HDOS) 595-2285-03 (with disk) MTR-88 595-2349 MTR-89 595-2508 FDD 100-5B (with schematic) Z-219-1 installation Z-207-3 technical (with TM100 manual) If you (or anyone else) wants any of these let me know as soon as possible (preferably by Sunday night). Now that they are unpacked they are bound for the recycle pile. Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Sun May 20 11:01:54 2007 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 11:01:54 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <464F230C.4060307@nj7p.org> References: <15126023.1178940255323.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <46464595.5040607@sc.rr.com> <464663BE.9020408@nj7p.org> <4645D144.7090805@earthlink.net> <46473FB1.9060305@nj7p.org> <4646C206.5030106@earthlink.net> <464F230C.4060307@nj7p.org> Message-ID: <465070F2.9090409@earthlink.net> Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote: > Lee, > > Do you have the foldouts for the H8 board set? If so, could I get you > to mail them to me to scan? I will return them when the job is complete. Yes, I have them. I'd be glad to LOAN them to you, but need them back for my own H8! What is your mailing address? -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From nj7p at nj7p.org Sun May 20 12:11:44 2007 From: nj7p at nj7p.org (Bill Beech (NJ7P)) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 10:11:44 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <465070F2.9090409@earthlink.net> References: <15126023.1178940255323.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <46464595.5040607@sc.rr.com> <464663BE.9020408@nj7p.org> <4645D144.7090805@earthlink.net> <46473FB1.9060305@nj7p.org> <4646C206.5030106@earthlink.net> <464F230C.4060307@nj7p.org> <465070F2.9090409@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <46508150.50409@nj7p.org> Lee, Mailing address is: William Beech 6567 Y-Ligntning Rd Hereford, AZ 85615 Lee Hart wrote: > Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote: > >> Lee, >> >> Do you have the foldouts for the H8 board set? If so, could I get >> you to mail them to me to scan? I will return them when the job is >> complete. > > > Yes, I have them. I'd be glad to LOAN them to you, but need them back > for my own H8! > > What is your mailing address? > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ziloo_1 at yahoo.com Sun May 20 15:35:58 2007 From: ziloo_1 at yahoo.com (ziloo ...) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 13:35:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] Heathkit Robots Message-ID: <757956.67246.qm@web35707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.00 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.20 BSF_SC0_SA038b RAW: Custom Rule SA038b Hello folks, This is a bit off-topic, but has any of the great people on this email/forum been also a fan of Heathkit Hero series of robots? I like to know your experience with the technical aspects and troubleshooting of thses robots (No... I don't have one!). Some fellow has purchased the right to the remaining stock as well as the manuals for these robots: http://www.robotworkshop.com/ Is it the same fellow who has the right to Heathkit computer manuals? ziloo --------------------------------- 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nj7p at nj7p.org Sun May 20 16:13:54 2007 From: nj7p at nj7p.org (Bill Beech (NJ7P)) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 14:13:54 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Heathkit Robots In-Reply-To: <757956.67246.qm@web35707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <757956.67246.qm@web35707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4650BA12.7040905@nj7p.org> Ziloo, I have a complete Hero 1 here. I am in the process of scanning the manuals in to put up on the net. I will have to look into this! Bill ziloo ... wrote: > Hello folks, > > This is a bit off-topic, but has any of the great people on this > email/forum been also a fan of Heathkit Hero series of robots? I like > to know your experience with the technical aspects and troubleshooting > of thses robots (No... I don't have one!). > > Some fellow has purchased the right to the remaining stock as well as > the manuals for these robots: > > http://www.robotworkshop.com/ > > Is it the same fellow who has the right to Heathkit computer manuals? > > ziloo > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick > in no time > with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. > -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From bill at armchairarcade.com Sun May 20 16:30:01 2007 From: bill at armchairarcade.com (Bill Loguidice) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 17:30:01 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Heathkit Robots In-Reply-To: <4650BA12.7040905@nj7p.org> References: <757956.67246.qm@web35707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4650BA12.7040905@nj7p.org> Message-ID: <006201c79b26$07ea8120$17bf8360$@com> I remember these "live" from when I was in middle school and of course seeing the ads for them in magazines like "Family Computing" in my youth. I would love to acquire one, but they're quite expensive and often require a good deal of repair--skills I probably don't possess. Nevertheless, robots and robotics have always fascinated me. Modern hobby robotics I think have finally caught up to the heady days of the early 80's when a seeming personal robotics revolution never seemed to get off the ground like personal computing did. It remains to be seen if personal/hobby robotics will get more into the mainstream though anytime soon, but it's definitely a great time for the hobby. I wish someone took up the old Heath mantle though and created some of the more full-sized machines like the Hero for relatively cheap. As it is now, it's all smaller, programmable robotics that are the norm (I have the Lego Mindstorms stuff myself)... ================================= Bill Loguidice, Managing Director Armchair Arcade, Inc. (A PC Magazine Top 100 Website) http://www.armchairarcade.com ================================= > -----Original Message----- > From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On > Behalf Of Bill Beech (NJ7P) > Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 5:14 PM > To: sebhc at sebhc.org > Subject: Re: [sebhc] Heathkit Robots > > Ziloo, > > I have a complete Hero 1 here. I am in the process of scanning the > manuals in to put up on the net. I will have to look into this! > > Bill > > ziloo ... wrote: > > > Hello folks, > > > > This is a bit off-topic, but has any of the great people on this > > email/forum been also a fan of Heathkit Hero series of robots? I like > > to know your experience with the technical aspects and > troubleshooting > > of thses robots (No... I don't have one!). > > > > Some fellow has purchased the right to the remaining stock as well as > > the manuals for these robots: > > > > http://www.robotworkshop.com/ > > > > Is it the same fellow who has the right to Heathkit computer manuals? > > > > ziloo > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick > > in no > time > > with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. > > > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dkelvey at hotmail.com Sun May 20 16:47:19 2007 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 14:47:19 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS In-Reply-To: <004801c79a1f$744aa0a0$6500a8c0@barry> Message-ID: Sun, 20 May 2007 21:47:19 GMT >From: "Barry Watzman" > >Re: "A surprise to most is that these stray magnetic fields have a greater >effect on writing to the disk than they do to readingthe disk" > >I don't think that this is literally correct. But keep in mind that >writing >requires reading first (the process of writing requires reading the sector >headers before the actual writing begins). > Hi Barry I can read from the disk without error but as soon as the disk is written, it can no longer be read from. I've seen this several times and even experimented a little, to varify this. I suspect that the frequency is not high enough to get through the preamps on the drives. The read heads are only looking for sharp transisions. Writing needs to have a specific static level. Deviate from that level and no data is written. This is my guess. Dwight _________________________________________________________________ More photos, more messages, more storage?get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Sun May 20 18:28:16 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 19:28:16 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001c01c79b36$8b4ee050$6500a8c0@barry> I don't buy the argument that the deflection yoke interferes with writing per se, but if it interfered with reading the headers, that could cause a problem. What happens when you try to format a disk (a write operation that does not also involve a read)? -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of dwight elvey Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 17:47 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: RE: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS >From: "Barry Watzman" > >Re: "A surprise to most is that these stray magnetic fields have a greater >effect on writing to the disk than they do to readingthe disk" > >I don't think that this is literally correct. But keep in mind that >writing >requires reading first (the process of writing requires reading the sector >headers before the actual writing begins). > Hi Barry I can read from the disk without error but as soon as the disk is written, it can no longer be read from. I've seen this several times and even experimented a little, to varify this. I suspect that the frequency is not high enough to get through the preamps on the drives. The read heads are only looking for sharp transisions. Writing needs to have a specific static level. Deviate from that level and no data is written. This is my guess. Dwight _________________________________________________________________ More photos, more messages, more storage-get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migratio n_HM_mini_2G_0507 -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ueoguy at yahoo.com Mon May 21 00:37:42 2007 From: ueoguy at yahoo.com (H.E.Robert Weir-L.V.C.C.) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 22:37:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] Heathkit Robots In-Reply-To: <757956.67246.qm@web35707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <598309.8215.qm@web31808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Well, I have to chime in and admit that I bought, built, and still own a HERO Jr. ;-) The HERO 1 was, as the name implies, Heath Educational RO bot, and was very slow at doing pretty much everything. It relied on the users programming, to make it do pretty much anything. But at least it had one arm! The HERO Jr. was designed to do 'roboty' things right out of the box, and quite frankly was pretty entertaining! Alas, it was born with no arms and no legs, but made up for it with a personality you just wanted to adopt, like a newborn beagle puppy! And I don't believe it is 'Off Topic' for this list, it is an 8 bit computer made by Heath/Zenith, even though it was not Intel based, but Motorola 6800 series of CPU! I'm sure Mr. Ruben might have small place on the list for these Heathkit Orphans??? The development team must of had a ball dreaming this one up. It was equipped with the Federal Screw Works SC-01 phoneme chip, and it could walk, (well-- roll), talk, and even 'sing' without any user intervention. It had several options, including program cartridges with games like Cowboys and Robots, hide and seek, and a BASIC interpreter with Robotic extensions to take control of the the Robots functions from a higher level language, rather than machine code in Hex. But even without these, Heath/Zenith tried to design, and in my humble opinion, succeeded in creating a 'bot, with a lovable personality! I mean really, how many machines do you know that can sing the "I'm a pepper" - Dr. Pepper jingle....in tune....without accompaniment!! Okay, one last thought...the funniest thing that ever happened to myself and my HERO Jr., was one night I was getting ready to hit the town, I had been "playing" with 'HJ', and went to "make sure my jib line was straight", when all of a sudden, I heard this load pounding noise, and a cry for assistance...in an one bedroom apartment...this is a bit strange!! I ran to the top of the stairs going out side, and at the bottom, was my HJ. sitting on it's head, wheels spinning, saying HELP!,HELP!,HELP!,HELP!,HELP!!! Very sad, but funny as well...that response was never documented in the Heathkit manuals. The guys at the local Heathkit store, were on the floor when I told them the story. I had to replace a few body parts, damaged in the fall, but he was never quite right after that incident, he would go on his 'explore' missions, he had the Polaroid distance detector, and a 'bump into' detector, which usually resulted in an "Excuse Me" as he backed away and tried an alternate vector. But ultimately, would just spin in a circle, with the telltale click of the Polaroid distance detector. I anyone has a chance of adopting one of these, they deserve a full life! they need your support! Yep, I am certifiable, but these little guys are a bunch of unadulterated fun. The HERO 2000, was too rich for my blood at the time, and way outa reach for me now, but they were a fusion of the HERO-1, and the Hero Jr., and in low battery conditions, locate and dock with the recharger! I was told by one of HK store emp's that they had plans for a Robot that could navigate by itself, including stairs! Unfortunately, the demise of Heathkit snuffed that possibility.....If anybody on the list finds one, please adopt, it might be the most noble and humane thing you do!:-) Oh, and ziloo, this guy is in my backyard, so if you need a contact with him...let me know? Just Bob!...just having a really GEEKY life!!... --- "ziloo ..." wrote: > Hello folks, > > This is a bit off-topic, but has any of the great > people on this email/forum been also a fan of > Heathkit Hero series of robots? I like to know your > experience with the technical aspects and > troubleshooting of thses robots (No... I don't have > one!). > > Some fellow has purchased the right to the > remaining stock as well as > the manuals for these robots: > > http://www.robotworkshop.com/ > > Is it the same fellow who has the right to > Heathkit computer manuals? > > ziloo > > > --------------------------------- > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time > with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. ____________________________________________________________________________________Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/index.php -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ziloo_1 at yahoo.com Mon May 21 08:26:38 2007 From: ziloo_1 at yahoo.com (ziloo ...) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 06:26:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] Heathkit Robots In-Reply-To: <598309.8215.qm@web31808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <252543.95316.qm@web35709.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.00 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message "H.E.Robert Weir-L.V.C.C." wrote: "And I don't believe it is 'Off Topic' for this list, it is an 8 bit computer made by Heath/Zenith, ..." Hello Just Bob! You are absolutely right and I stand corrected. I have collected several photos of the circuit boards and mechanical construction of these robots from various sellers on ebay. Those engineers who designed them, they did a beautiful job. As Bill said it, they are getting more and more expensive on the market and I would be very intersted in studying their hardware and software design. Thank you all for your responses. ziloo ^_^ Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48516/*http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 hot CTA = Join Yahoo!'s user panel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From leeahart at earthlink.net Mon May 21 12:38:14 2007 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 12:38:14 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4651D906.3060904@earthlink.net> dwight elvey wrote: > I can read from the disk without error but as soon as the disk is > written, it can no longer be read from. I've seen this several > times and even experimented a little, to varify this. > I suspect that the frequency is not high enough to get through > the preamps on the drives. The read heads are only looking for > sharp transisions. It could be a simple as that for read, you get many chances, but for write, only one. The BIOS automatically retries during reads until it gets an error-free sector; it might take up to 10 tries before you get a BDOS error message. All the user notices is that reads seem a little slow. But on write, you only need one bad bit and the sector is unreadable, no matter how many times you re-read it. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Mon May 21 12:47:02 2007 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 12:47:02 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Heathkit Robots In-Reply-To: <598309.8215.qm@web31808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <598309.8215.qm@web31808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4651DB16.1070509@earthlink.net> H.E.Robert Weir-L.V.C.C. wrote: > Well, I have to chime in and admit that I bought, > built, and still own a HERO Jr. ;-) ... > Yep, I am certifiable, but these little guys are a > bunch of unadulterated fun. I agree! It's one of the Heathkits I always wished I had bought. Last fall, I bought a Robomower 850 from www.friendlyrobots.com. It immediately occurred to me that it needs a Hero top section on it! I'd love to see it wandering around the yard mowing, singing to itself, picking up pine cones that get in the way, and saying "excuse me" to trees etc. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From ziloo_1 at yahoo.com Mon May 21 14:10:57 2007 From: ziloo_1 at yahoo.com (ziloo ...) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 12:10:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] Heath CP/M Message-ID: <939962.89583.qm@web35712.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.00 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message Hello folks, What is a good book on CP/M that is more relevant to H-89 spirit? Thank you ziloo --------------------------------- You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with AutoCheck in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Mon May 21 14:34:19 2007 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 14:34:19 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Heath CP/M In-Reply-To: <939962.89583.qm@web35712.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <000c01c79bdf$07ee0480$176fa8c0@obie> All the Digital Research docs are online but they may seem a bit terse. Thom Hogan's "CP/M User Guide" is a good intro; David Cortesi's "Inside CP/M" takes you farther and Andy Johnson-Laird's "Programmer's CP/M Handbook" wraps it all up. On general principle, I stay away from any book with Rodney Zaks name on it. Jack -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of ziloo ... Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 2:11 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: [sebhc] Heath CP/M Hello folks, What is a good book on CP/M that is more relevant to H-89 spirit? Thank you ziloo You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with AutoCheck in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.6/813 - Release Date: 5/20/2007 7:54 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.6/813 - Release Date: 5/20/2007 7:54 AM -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From peter59 at sbcglobal.net Mon May 21 14:33:09 2007 From: peter59 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Shkabara) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 12:33:09 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] Heath CP/M In-Reply-To: <939962.89583.qm@web35712.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.28 MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR URI: Includes a link to a likely spammer email 0.00 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message References: <939962.89583.qm@web35712.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000301c79bde$df9a8800$0d0014ac@voshod> I would recommend "Inside CP.M" by David Cortesi. While it is not specific to Heath, it does a good job dealing with the CP/M OS. Here is a link to Amazon: http://tinyurl.com/33j35y Peter ---------------------------------- peter59 at sbcglobal.net _____ What is a good book on CP/M that is more relevant to H-89 spirit? ziloo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Mon May 21 17:13:50 2007 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 18:13:50 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Diskette termination Message-ID: <4652199E.7030601@sc.rr.com> I have the drive manuals for the Siemens FD100 diskette drive. It (along with the schematic) shows the termination resistor pack with 330 ohms going to +5 and 220 going to ground. However the termination resistor packs that were in the drives when I bought them on ebay are 150ohms to both +5 and ground. I haven't been able to find any 330/220 resistor packs in any catalog I have. Does anyone know which is correct? Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From bshannon at tiac.net Mon May 21 19:50:51 2007 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 20:50:51 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Heathkit Robots References: <757956.67246.qm@web35707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000701c79c0b$401b6920$0100a8c0@screamer> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 5433 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ziloo_1 at yahoo.com Tue May 22 07:46:44 2007 From: ziloo_1 at yahoo.com (ziloo ...) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 05:46:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] Heathkit Robots In-Reply-To: <000701c79c0b$401b6920$0100a8c0@screamer> Message-ID: <33297.69811.qm@web35707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.00 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message Bob Shannon wrote: > I have a Heathkit Hero 2000...< Hello Bob, I have read some interesting stuff about Hero 2000: 1-one 8088 for main processing; eleven 8042 processors for individual function control. 2- HERO 2000 can write its own BASIC program. 3- twelve epansion slots. How open aechitecture are Hero 2000 manuals and does it provide source lisrings for its ROM? Thank you ziloo --------------------------------- Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paulpenn at knology.net Tue May 22 10:28:52 2007 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul A. Pennington) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 11:28:52 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Diskette termination References: <4652199E.7030601@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <005101c79c85$e71d77c0$6401a8c0@A31PAUL> Carroll said: >I have the drive manuals for the Siemens FD100 diskette drive. It (along >with the schematic) shows the termination resistor pack with 330 ohms going >to +5 and 220 going to ground. However the termination resistor packs that >were in the drives when I bought them on ebay are 150ohms to both +5 and >ground. > I haven't been able to find any 330/220 resistor packs in any catalog I > have. Does anyone know which is correct? The 150 ohm packs are for the more common Tandon floppies. Somebody switched them. I have several of the 220/330 packs in my parts box and would be glad to mail you one. Send your snail mail address off-list. Part numbers on mine are: Beckman 899-5 R220/330 CTS 760-5-R220/330 A-B 314E221331 Bourns 4114R-003-221/331 Dale MDP-1405-221/331G Notice a pattern here? :-) Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Tue May 22 10:01:37 2007 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 10:01:37 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <46508150.50409@nj7p.org> References: <15126023.1178940255323.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <46464595.5040607@sc.rr.com> <464663BE.9020408@nj7p.org> <4645D144.7090805@earthlink.net> <46473FB1.9060305@nj7p.org> <4646C206.5030106@earthlink.net> <464F230C.4060307@nj7p.org> <465070F2.9090409@earthlink.net> <46508150.50409@nj7p.org> Message-ID: <465305D1.50805@earthlink.net> Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote: > Lee, > > Mailing address is: > > William Beech > 6567 Y-Ligntning Rd > Hereford, AZ 85615 Hi Bill, I see that Don Lanciani has also volunteered his manuals, so there is no sense sending mine? As I said, these are originals, and I'm worried about sending them out to perhaps never see them again. So, let's coordinate. I can send what Don doesn't have. Let me know. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Tue May 22 10:49:51 2007 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 10:49:51 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] Diskette termination In-Reply-To: <4652199E.7030601@sc.rr.com> References: <4652199E.7030601@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <4653111F.9030309@earthlink.net> Carroll Waddell wrote: > I have the drive manuals for the Siemens FD100 diskette drive. It (along > with the schematic) shows the termination resistor pack with 330 ohms > going to +5 and 220 going to ground. However the termination resistor > packs that were in the drives when I bought them on ebay are 150ohms to > both +5 and ground. > I haven't been able to find any 330/220 resistor packs in any catalog I > have. Does anyone know which is correct? Either the 220/330 or 150 ohm terminator will work. The 220/330 version is a bit more "elegant" because it draws much less supply current. If you use a 150 ohm pack, it almost certainly has just a 150 ohm resistor from +5v to each pin. If you plug one of these into an FDD-100 drive, the pin diagonally opposite the +5v pin is ground, so it puts one 150 ohm resistor straight to ground -- useless, but harmless. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Tue May 22 12:28:55 2007 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 10:28:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <465305D1.50805@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <289770.38469.qm@web53702.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.00 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message And please double-check the archives first to avoid duplicating material already there! Jack Lee Hart wrote: Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote: > Lee, > > Mailing address is: > > William Beech > 6567 Y-Ligntning Rd > Hereford, AZ 85615 Hi Bill, I see that Don Lanciani has also volunteered his manuals, so there is no sense sending mine? As I said, these are originals, and I'm worried about sending them out to perhaps never see them again. So, let's coordinate. I can send what Don doesn't have. Let me know. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Tue May 22 14:11:39 2007 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 15:11:39 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] Diskette termination In-Reply-To: <005101c79c85$e71d77c0$6401a8c0@A31PAUL> References: <4652199E.7030601@sc.rr.com> <005101c79c85$e71d77c0$6401a8c0@A31PAUL> Message-ID: <4653406B.5080906@sc.rr.com> Paul A. Pennington wrote: > Carroll said: > >> I have the drive manuals for the Siemens FD100 diskette drive. It >> (along with the schematic) shows the termination resistor pack with >> 330 ohms going to +5 and 220 going to ground. However the termination >> resistor packs that were in the drives when I bought them on ebay are >> 150ohms to both +5 and ground. >> I haven't been able to find any 330/220 resistor packs in any catalog >> I have. Does anyone know which is correct? > > > The 150 ohm packs are for the more common Tandon floppies. > Somebody switched them. I have several of the 220/330 packs in my > parts box and would be glad to mail you one. Send your snail mail > address off-list. > > Part numbers on mine are: > > Beckman 899-5 R220/330 > CTS 760-5-R220/330 > A-B 314E221331 > Bourns 4114R-003-221/331 > Dale MDP-1405-221/331G > > Notice a pattern here? :-) > > Paul Pennington > Augusta, Georgia > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > Thanks a bunch Paul, I will be more than happy to pay you for them. If you have enough, I'd like to have 2. If not, 1 would be greatly appreciated. My address is Dr. Carroll Waddell 2795 Raccoon Road Dalzell, SC 29040 -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From nj7p at nj7p.org Tue May 22 17:00:44 2007 From: nj7p at nj7p.org (Bill Beech (NJ7P)) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 15:00:44 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <465305D1.50805@earthlink.net> References: <15126023.1178940255323.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <46464595.5040607@sc.rr.com> <464663BE.9020408@nj7p.org> <4645D144.7090805@earthlink.net> <46473FB1.9060305@nj7p.org> <4646C206.5030106@earthlink.net> <464F230C.4060307@nj7p.org> <465070F2.9090409@earthlink.net> <46508150.50409@nj7p.org> <465305D1.50805@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4653680C.30807@nj7p.org> Lee, I agree. Let me get through this batch and see what is missing. And I understand your reluctance to part with the originals even temporarily. Bill Lee Hart wrote: > Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote: > >> Lee, >> >> Mailing address is: >> >> William Beech >> 6567 Y-Ligntning Rd >> Hereford, AZ 85615 > > > Hi Bill, > > I see that Don Lanciani has also volunteered his manuals, so there is > no sense sending mine? As I said, these are originals, and I'm worried > about sending them out to perhaps never see them again. > > So, let's coordinate. I can send what Don doesn't have. Let me know. -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com Tue May 22 18:31:45 2007 From: carrollwaddell at sc.rr.com (Carroll Waddell) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 19:31:45 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H90 In-Reply-To: <4653680C.30807@nj7p.org> References: <15126023.1178940255323.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <46464595.5040607@sc.rr.com> <464663BE.9020408@nj7p.org> <4645D144.7090805@earthlink.net> <46473FB1.9060305@nj7p.org> <4646C206.5030106@earthlink.net> <464F230C.4060307@nj7p.org> <465070F2.9090409@earthlink.net> <46508150.50409@nj7p.org> <465305D1.50805@earthlink.net> <4653680C.30807@nj7p.org> Message-ID: <46537D61.2040705@sc.rr.com> Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote: > Lee, > > I agree. Let me get through this batch and see what is missing. > And I understand your reluctance to part with the originals even > temporarily. > Bill > > Lee Hart wrote: > >> Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote: >> >>> Lee, >>> >>> Mailing address is: >>> >>> William Beech >>> 6567 Y-Ligntning Rd >>> Hereford, AZ 85615 >> >> >> >> Hi Bill, >> >> I see that Don Lanciani has also volunteered his manuals, so there is >> no sense sending mine? As I said, these are originals, and I'm >> worried about sending them out to perhaps never see them again. >> >> So, let's coordinate. I can send what Don doesn't have. Let me know. > > > > -- > Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > Bill, I mailed you some schematics that I had reduced to 11 x 17. You should get them in a day or two. Also included a CD with stuff in PDF format. Carroll -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dkelvey at hotmail.com Tue May 22 22:36:22 2007 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 20:36:22 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS In-Reply-To: <001c01c79b36$8b4ee050$6500a8c0@barry> Message-ID: Wed, 23 May 2007 03:36:22 GMT Hi Barry Try it. You don't have to believe me. I make a lot of mistakes over time with my older mind. Still, I'm quite sure about this one, having actually done the experiments. Dwight >From: "Barry Watzman" > >I don't buy the argument that the deflection yoke interferes with writing >per se, but if it interfered with reading the headers, that could cause a >problem. > >What happens when you try to format a disk (a write operation that does not >also involve a read)? > > >-----Original Message----- >From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >dwight elvey >Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 17:47 PM >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: RE: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS > > > > >From: "Barry Watzman" > > > >Re: "A surprise to most is that these stray magnetic fields have a >greater > >effect on writing to the disk than they do to readingthe disk" > > > >I don't think that this is literally correct. But keep in mind that > >writing > >requires reading first (the process of writing requires reading the >sector > >headers before the actual writing begins). > > >Hi Barry >I can read from the disk without error but as soon as the disk is >written, it can no longer be read from. I've seen this several >times and even experimented a little, to varify this. >I suspect that the frequency is not high enough to get through >the preamps on the drives. The read heads are only looking for >sharp transisions. >Writing needs to have a specific static level. Deviate from that >level and no data is written. >This is my guess. >Dwight > >_________________________________________________________________ >More photos, more messages, more storage-get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. >http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migratio >n_HM_mini_2G_0507 > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List _________________________________________________________________ More photos, more messages, more storage?get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Wed May 23 04:41:50 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 05:41:50 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003f01c79d1e$96d6d5b0$6500a8c0@barry> Since I don't even have an H89 at this time ...... -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of dwight elvey Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 23:36 PM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: RE: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS Hi Barry Try it. You don't have to believe me. I make a lot of mistakes over time with my older mind. Still, I'm quite sure about this one, having actually done the experiments. Dwight >From: "Barry Watzman" > >I don't buy the argument that the deflection yoke interferes with writing >per se, but if it interfered with reading the headers, that could cause a >problem. > >What happens when you try to format a disk (a write operation that does not >also involve a read)? > > >-----Original Message----- >From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of >dwight elvey >Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 17:47 PM >To: sebhc at sebhc.org >Subject: RE: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS > > > > >From: "Barry Watzman" > > > >Re: "A surprise to most is that these stray magnetic fields have a >greater > >effect on writing to the disk than they do to readingthe disk" > > > >I don't think that this is literally correct. But keep in mind that > >writing > >requires reading first (the process of writing requires reading the >sector > >headers before the actual writing begins). > > >Hi Barry >I can read from the disk without error but as soon as the disk is >written, it can no longer be read from. I've seen this several >times and even experimented a little, to varify this. >I suspect that the frequency is not high enough to get through >the preamps on the drives. The read heads are only looking for >sharp transisions. >Writing needs to have a specific static level. Deviate from that >level and no data is written. >This is my guess. >Dwight > >_________________________________________________________________ >More photos, more messages, more storage-get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. >http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migrati o >n_HM_mini_2G_0507 > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List > > >-- >Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List _________________________________________________________________ More photos, more messages, more storage-get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migratio n_HM_mini_2G_0507 -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From leeahart at earthlink.net Wed May 23 10:13:49 2007 From: leeahart at earthlink.net (Lee Hart) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 10:13:49 -0500 Subject: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS In-Reply-To: <003f01c79d1e$96d6d5b0$6500a8c0@barry> References: <003f01c79d1e$96d6d5b0$6500a8c0@barry> Message-ID: <46545A2D.6090808@earthlink.net> Barry Watzman wrote: > Since I don't even have an H89 at this time ...... Would you like one? :-) -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed May 23 10:37:33 2007 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 11:37:33 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS In-Reply-To: <46545A2D.6090808@earthlink.net> References: <003f01c79d1e$96d6d5b0$6500a8c0@barry> <46545A2D.6090808@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <50771274-F30C-4DB2-9328-217B82844654@neurotica.com> On May 23, 2007, at 11:13 AM, Lee Hart wrote: >> Since I don't even have an H89 at this time ...... > > Would you like one? :-) Do you have a surplus?? -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From Watzman at neo.rr.com Wed May 23 12:45:16 2007 From: Watzman at neo.rr.com (Barry Watzman) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 13:45:16 -0400 Subject: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS In-Reply-To: <46545A2D.6090808@earthlink.net> Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <001101c79d62$20608220$6500a8c0@barry> Only if the price was very right. Barry Watzman Watzman at neo.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org [mailto:sebhc-bounces at sebhc.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 11:14 AM To: sebhc at sebhc.org Subject: Re: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS Barry Watzman wrote: > Since I don't even have an H89 at this time ...... Would you like one? :-) -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List From dkelvey at hotmail.com Wed May 23 20:40:12 2007 From: dkelvey at hotmail.com (dwight elvey) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 18:40:12 -0700 Subject: [sebhc] H89 BOOT SUCCESS In-Reply-To: <003f01c79d1e$96d6d5b0$6500a8c0@barry> Message-ID: Thu, 24 May 2007 01:40:12 GMT >From: "Barry Watzman" > >Since I don't even have an H89 at this time ...... > > ---snip--- A PC with a little extra disk cable and a monitor with the back off would do. Dwight _________________________________________________________________ Catch suspicious messages before you open them?with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_protection_0507 -- Delivered by the SEBHC Mailing List